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Death Battle Season Eight Discussion Thread (2) (All-time Death Battle Spoilers Alert)
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Double W for Yang and positive RWBY win rates tho eww
Are there "pity win" MUs for Bleach ala Shadow vs Ryuko for Sonic? Looking at Naruto vs Ichigo & Madaraizen, Bleach fans have been VERY vocal about dislike. I wonder how badly third L would go lol
Are there "pity win" MUs for Bleach ala Shadow vs Ryuko for Sonic? Looking at Naruto vs Ichigo & Madaraizen, Bleach fans have been VERY vocal about dislike. I wonder how badly third L would go lol
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Hey man, dont say that, one of the 3 Bakugo fans could probably be here
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Depending who you ask, Rukia has Nami or Sakura
Kenpachi has Zoro maybe. I always liked him vs Saber-Mordred. If you really wanna' strecth it,Bishamon could be possible for something actually unique (DB's ranks for Darkstalkers is around country level if I remember right, and Kenny's meteor busting is around that ballpark so it could even be argued for fairness)
Harribel vs Kisame is also popular
Grimmjow vs Younger Toguro feels fitting as the most popular rival to the protagonist
I know I used to love Giselle vs Melona from Queen's Blade... buuuut I doubt Queen's Blade ever got feats above city block level
Yhwach vs Kaguya I can't see HOW you can muck up (no pun intended)
Kirbonic_Pikmin
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NO THIS IS
SUPER ******* IMPORTANT
IT'S SO ANNOYING AND EVERY CONCLUSION THEY DO IT WITH SUCKS
I think in a time travel fight in which both opponents can time travel it should never be used as the wincon, ever, it only breeds confusion. Just use it in cool ways like RF v GB or Booster vs Cable to change the environment and make the fight more interesting, NEVER to determine the victor.
It's part of why Ben vs Hal was so controversial, its part of why I think Archie v Wally has one of the worst/most contrived conclusions for a fight on the show, etc etc, don't ******* do that.
XitSign
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Death Battle FAQ: "Shadow Vs. Ryuko was NOT a pity win! Stop saying it was a pity win! We would never throw a character under the bus just to get in good graces with a very vocal fandom! We're better than that!!!"
Every DB watcher the moment Ryuko was shown in the preview: "Oh...Shadow Pity Win."
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With the research and double standards at times? I dont think so
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Waiting for them to use an aged to death or burned up by air friction kill, those could be cool and possibly brutal depending on the execution
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Rip sonic series, going to be scrounging for pity wins and never actually getting Ws against series of notoriety. Really sucks
Kirbonic_Pikmin
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They already blew most of the chances for meaningful wins by now, and they've ****** up the stats so much that if they started statting characters correctly now it'd throw basically every previous Sonic character MU/outcome into question so they probably wont wanna do many more I imagine.
All that's really left is if they want to do Trunks vs Silver but actually do it right, and if they wanna do Archie Knuckles vs Juggernaut.
It's one of the few series' where I unironically think that it could've had a near perfect winstreak on the show if researched correctly,
Kirbonic_Pikmin
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Aged to death is a pretty cool one they've never used yet. It's a possible option in something like Sakuya vs Hit for instance, never thought of an air friction one though.
I want more cool and creatively brutal but in characters deaths like Reverse Flash's finisher.
Kirbonic_Pikmin
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To elaborate on this more:
Shadow v Vegeta at the time should've been a Shadow win because: 1. They were still compositing with ******* Archie at that point and, good lord that's unfair. 2. Solaris stats existed by this point and I don't think Dragon Ball was even close to that tier yet.
Wily vs Eggman is actually somewhat sound reasoning-wise imo and I don't mind the draw... If you give Eggman ALL his equipment, he should've taken it though, by this point he had solar system level Death Egg laser and uni to low multi robots from the Rush games, but considering what they gave each side in the fight itself, yeah a draw is fair.
Knuckles vs DK.... I'd say Knuckles wins lol? I'm pretty sure they intentionally restricted his super forms to make the fight more fair/even but I'm pretty sure Knuckles should've pulled through from various factors (it always bothered me how they brought up DK had a weakness to his hair being cut when Knuckles has bladed claw weapons that totally could've cut hair, and Knuckles punches DK in the head multiple times lol). If you unrestrict the super forms though it's super unfair for DK. To my knowledge I think Archie was still composited here? Which if so, makes it even more unfair.
Shadow v Mewtwo is notorious but Shadow absolutely should've taken it
Metal Sonic v Zero might be debatable too but something about Quick Man being statted as faster than Metal drives me insane.
Mario vs Sonic 2 literally denies Solaris & Time Eater in the black boxes and those absolutely would've netted Sonic the win, only for them to backpedal on it later and acknowledge the forms. Mario when not composited with Paper Mario, does not have anything universal, he should've lost here.
Archie v Wally, is the most debatable matchup here, I personally think Archie pulls through in the end and find the conclusion of the fight and their reasoning to be pretty horrible, but its the one fight here where I could genuinely think "yeah I could see the Sonic character losing here".
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I think the air friction one could be cool, imagine how raw it would be to have the other character burn up in his opponents hand, only leaving dust behind in the palms of the victor that blow away afterwards
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There is a caveat to avoid it, but Shadow vs Ryuko was likely on purpose. You know why?
Because any dedicated debater knows Shadow beats Ryuko. Swan mentioned 'megaversal' as a term in 2016. The research team absolutely ******* knows Shadow wins that. It being a cool fight is not a point, they could make any fight great. Research team also has hand in what MUs get picked. If they would have wanted a DC L to non-Marvel they would have done it years ago.
The only caveat is, how do they truly pick matches. Apparently higher ups give ideas, so I guess those wouldnt count. A weird case is Ben. He really liked Korra a lot. Now, I think he knew Storm stomped her, but liked the MU best, but I wonder if there is a chance that he wasnt sure if Storm truly stomps Korra.
But either way, large majority of fights are already done deals. We are at their mercy to see what franchises get what wins or losses aka the embarrassing delay of Ruby vs Maka. So in that sense I do think Shadow vs Ryuko is very likely a "pity win".
Because any dedicated debater knows Shadow beats Ryuko. Swan mentioned 'megaversal' as a term in 2016. The research team absolutely ******* knows Shadow wins that. It being a cool fight is not a point, they could make any fight great. Research team also has hand in what MUs get picked. If they would have wanted a DC L to non-Marvel they would have done it years ago.
The only caveat is, how do they truly pick matches. Apparently higher ups give ideas, so I guess those wouldnt count. A weird case is Ben. He really liked Korra a lot. Now, I think he knew Storm stomped her, but liked the MU best, but I wonder if there is a chance that he wasnt sure if Storm truly stomps Korra.
But either way, large majority of fights are already done deals. We are at their mercy to see what franchises get what wins or losses aka the embarrassing delay of Ruby vs Maka. So in that sense I do think Shadow vs Ryuko is very likely a "pity win".
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What are their close connections again?
Man with blob powers turned insane vs vampire lady whose powers are insane... not the best connections we have here.
Well... Some verdicts will need time travel as a factor.
One can best hope they have better ways in executing the fight.
Notable protagonists of "open world" action role-playing games set in medieval style fantasy worlds (?)
(Some rivalries from the two verses)
Something similar to Cole MacGrath vs Alex Mercer as battle of protagonists of open-world action-adventure video games set in post-modern sci-fi worlds with sinking yet visible rivalries between fans from Infamous and Prototype.
XitSign
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I think the part about it that bothers me most about it being a Pity Win by design is that Ryuko's probably never comming back. DBX at most.
We joke about characters being 'fed' to the winners sometimes, but she was literally tossed into the meat grinder on that one. The episode was never 'Shadow Vs. Ryuko' it was 'Shadow finally gets a win, with special guest: Who Cares?'
Episode didn't sell me on Kill-La-Kill or Ryuko, it didn't make me like Shadow any more. It just felt like 'A Shadow win, are you happy?' paired with animation that's...fine, good in places weaker in others, But probably not going to be long-term memorable for the fanbase.
She was sacrificial lamb duty, that's bout it. Sonic fans went wild briefly and then seemed to stop caring almost immediately.
...looking at it from the meta level, just kinda sucks it had to be that way. Doesn't feel like the Sonic side got much out of it, the Kill-La-Kill fans got screwed, and casuals enjoyed it but will probably forget about it in favor of the more 'stunning' MUs.
We joke about characters being 'fed' to the winners sometimes, but she was literally tossed into the meat grinder on that one. The episode was never 'Shadow Vs. Ryuko' it was 'Shadow finally gets a win, with special guest: Who Cares?'
Episode didn't sell me on Kill-La-Kill or Ryuko, it didn't make me like Shadow any more. It just felt like 'A Shadow win, are you happy?' paired with animation that's...fine, good in places weaker in others, But probably not going to be long-term memorable for the fanbase.
She was sacrificial lamb duty, that's bout it. Sonic fans went wild briefly and then seemed to stop caring almost immediately.
...looking at it from the meta level, just kinda sucks it had to be that way. Doesn't feel like the Sonic side got much out of it, the Kill-La-Kill fans got screwed, and casuals enjoyed it but will probably forget about it in favor of the more 'stunning' MUs.
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DK vs Knux is actually where they decided to move away from Archie. They originally had Knux win that with Archie stuff.
And then they proceed to use Archie in Metal's ep and Sonic X everywhere :^)
I like to think it was 2 birds in 1 stone. Ryuko's best was Shadow, and hey introducing KLK is cool. Sometimes not all characters can win unfortunately. If we have a winner, we have a loser then too.
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Yeah, DB targets casuals so stomps in that sense arent bad. But its been 10 years, 5 for research team. Some things should absolutely be given.
Tho tbf, KLK was never featured in DB, so Im not bothered by it, and most real problems about it is Ryuko's presentation. Batgirl vs Spider-Gwen is a real example of waste, which only justifies its existence by giving DC Ls lmao
Tho tbf, KLK was never featured in DB, so Im not bothered by it, and most real problems about it is Ryuko's presentation. Batgirl vs Spider-Gwen is a real example of waste, which only justifies its existence by giving DC Ls lmao
XitSign
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I know not all characters can win, but it feels less about that part to me. It feels more 'who can we have lose?' first and firemost which...feels dirty.
Maybe I'm getting cynical about it, but between all the theorizing about the fight and the way the FAQ seems weirdly defensive about the choice, it gives the fight that 'manipulated' feel. Like the KLK part wasn't important, just a happy afterthought.
And it doesn't help that it just doesn't feel like it even accomplished that. Shadow doesn't look any better afterwards, and Ryuko looks bullied and unlikeable (got a friend who REALLY wanted me to watch KLK because I told them the Death Battle made me think I wouldn'tlike it...I actually think it's fun so far, still only on episode 3 tho, we'll see if I keep enjoying it). Honestly, I think what's saving her from being viewed as the new punching bag for losing to Shadow is how...forgettable the whole MU ended up.
Like I said, I'm starting to only remember the fight as 'Shadow got a win', and it feels like that's how other people seem to remember it too.
It's all just...kinda lame. Not offensive, not bad, not controversial, just...lame.
And I think that sucks...
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Would have preffered Akame to fight her, more closer stat wise then Shadow was to Ryuko, even if Ryuko wins it easy by the end
Killua aint gonna be able to do shit on her with the stats given to Esdeath, let alone the deadly sword she got
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In general one should probably cool down on looking info on DB's background too much.
I've looked at Swan's stuff so much that I cant not see bias in his writing, even when his verdicts are fine.
Black vs RF, DIO vs Al & Saitama vs Popeye are objective masterpieces, but I personally dont love them due to being annoyed too much with them lol
I've looked at Swan's stuff so much that I cant not see bias in his writing, even when his verdicts are fine.
Black vs RF, DIO vs Al & Saitama vs Popeye are objective masterpieces, but I personally dont love them due to being annoyed too much with them lol
XitSign
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I think that's the problem I have.
It's a mix of little things, reading background posts, and hearing people talk theory, and scemantics, and all that jazz that's made me dislike what is, in all objectiveness, a fine episode.
It's not bad, but I think my perception of it being some sort of 'tainted' or 'dishonest' fight has warped how I see it...
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You know how some reviewers loved Saitama vs Popeye's ending? How Saitama is depressed and they actually tried to animate Saitama finally having happy emotions? In theory, that is a powerful emotional good idea.
In practice I feel jack shit because they immediately ******* RYONA him and have him scream in pain. Because ofc the man who killed Ben 10 brutally would do that to have vengeance on the guy casuals voted can beat Superman. Ofc he would voice Popeye and sing a goofy song to ruin the emotional moment. Ofc he would be giddy to feed Saitama before his series is even over. Yes, he would likely still be ****** but its pathetic how Ruby vs Maka is still delayed despite that being a done deal. And I dont care how that reason is technically due to outside things related to Swan, it still paints DB overall in worse light.
In practice I feel jack shit because they immediately ******* RYONA him and have him scream in pain. Because ofc the man who killed Ben 10 brutally would do that to have vengeance on the guy casuals voted can beat Superman. Ofc he would voice Popeye and sing a goofy song to ruin the emotional moment. Ofc he would be giddy to feed Saitama before his series is even over. Yes, he would likely still be ****** but its pathetic how Ruby vs Maka is still delayed despite that being a done deal. And I dont care how that reason is technically due to outside things related to Swan, it still paints DB overall in worse light.
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Alright woke up gonna be responding to alot of stuff
Ben vs Hal usage of time travel is stupid given Hal hasn't used it since the 90s so using it for the fight especially as an ending was dumb if you wanted to go for something different
I honestly find the lol pity win shit to be dumb as ****
I can understand somewhat but seriously it's honestly the dumbest shit I keep hearing
There's tons of fights in DB that were pity wins by this logic yet we gonna give this one the big shit for it
And that's most things alot of people jerk off the hottest shit only to move on to something else
And really most fights outside the heavy hitters of S8 gonna have that feel
Really disagree on this there's bound to be episodes that were good but got overshadowed by the ones that were the peak of it's season
Leonardo vs Jason was another gem of an episode but many tend to overlook it when looking at S7 peak
We only had two of those really and only one of it made sense
Ben vs Hal usage of time travel is stupid given Hal hasn't used it since the 90s so using it for the fight especially as an ending was dumb if you wanted to go for something different
I honestly find the lol pity win shit to be dumb as ****
I can understand somewhat but seriously it's honestly the dumbest shit I keep hearing
There's tons of fights in DB that were pity wins by this logic yet we gonna give this one the big shit for it
Yeah listen Chief not every episode gonna be memorable that's just how it be even ones that are good
And that's most things alot of people jerk off the hottest shit only to move on to something else
And really most fights outside the heavy hitters of S8 gonna have that feel
That's dumb considering they animation team wanted to do the fight and
Really disagree on this there's bound to be episodes that were good but got overshadowed by the ones that were the peak of it's season
Leonardo vs Jason was another gem of an episode but many tend to overlook it when looking at S7 peak
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Also oops went into negative discussion more again lol
Anyone else get more to say when its more negative topics? Well, we should be getting info in 2 days or so.
Anyone else get more to say when its more negative topics? Well, we should be getting info in 2 days or so.
XitSign
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Yeah...which is why I kept using phrases like "makes it feel like" and my last post on the topic was me realizing that it probably was just a lot of little things plus people being negative that put an extra amount of bias on my own perception and is why I FEEL more negative about it than it probably deserves.
But...thanks for the two cents on every post BUT that one...'chief'.
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Eh, wouldn't call it a GEM, it has good animation and the track is really good but the fight itself just wasn't that interesting to me
And honestly i can say the same about alot of season 7 episodes, it's probably one of my least liked seasons
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Sephiroth vs Vergil-was considering a pity W for For FF at the time given they lost two MU with one being the textbook definition of being Rigged
Ryu vs Jin-Can easily to be one given SF was a laughing stock and had the worse losing streak on the show
Weiss vs Mitsuru- less of a pity W Morseso looking to see if we're gonna get another rigged RWBY W and even then had the worse death on the show which didn't help matters or lessen claims of RWBY bias
Don't get me started on Naruto
There's some others but I get the gist
Ryu vs Jin-Can easily to be one given SF was a laughing stock and had the worse losing streak on the show
Weiss vs Mitsuru- less of a pity W Morseso looking to see if we're gonna get another rigged RWBY W and even then had the worse death on the show which didn't help matters or lessen claims of RWBY bias
Don't get me started on Naruto
There's some others but I get the gist
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Fair point I look at it mainly as a good but nothing special type of episodes
S7 is just an average season I that put above S3 and S4 but easily below S2, S5,S6 and S8
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Leo vs Jason is ok, its fine. But like S7 in general, it was more ok, not that good. Not worst of S7, but that season was kinda bland.
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“lol universe buster” aside I realized Star’s powerset is just a lot better than Steven’s. Her powers are kinda poorly written so her Magic has no defined limitations, compared to Steven’s main gimmick being forcefields that get negated by Star’s infinitely higher AP.
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Star haxes the shit out of Steven, and in practice Steven is kinda just a brick with hax thats not quite usable, even his best stuff he didnt actually master.
Problem is, using any outliery feats makes Steven way too strong for Star, so Star needs that lolUni stats, although for Star it isnt exactly bad logic? Its just awkward because its borderline gag feat. Star's other good feat is also a statement which can be seen as annoying thing too.
Problem is, using any outliery feats makes Steven way too strong for Star, so Star needs that lolUni stats, although for Star it isnt exactly bad logic? Its just awkward because its borderline gag feat. Star's other good feat is also a statement which can be seen as annoying thing too.
Stefano4444
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Saint of Killers VS Roland Deschain (Preacher VS The Dark Tower)
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Maka vs Ruby at this point is only delayed because Monty wanted it to be done when Rwby over
But here's the issue
It's been 8 Volumes or whatever in Rwby and Ruby barely had gotten anything of worth that can allow her to be anything more than a punching bag for Maka who shitstomps her before the lastest FF feats bumped her up a tier which makes it worse as you said as time goes on
Doesn't help that the in-house team is shanked and we don't even know if they got new guys on so you don't want dream Monty MU to be a dogshit episode in quality
Doesn't help that Rwby episodes on DB varies in quality
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All that aside Star has a higher body count so she naturally has the advantage
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Sigma mindsetAll that aside Star has a higher body count so she naturally has the advantage
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