DC/Crisis Cosmology Revision

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Also. Another contents for the Source Wall: The Source Wall exists at the boundaries of space and time (we can use this as an evidence that the wall is the boundary of the Divine Continuum), and spanned all dimensions known and unknown.

Both are Low 1-A descriptions.

 

[Elizio33]

Both are Low 1-A descriptions.

I'm skeptical about the first one but thought the second one would be more qualified for Low 1-A. The first one would be a piece of evidence that the Source Wall is the boundary of space and time and, by extension, of the Divine Continuum. The second would be another evidence for the tier chosen for the Unseen Council and the Greater Omniverse.

 

[LazyMortician]

The Presence/God has a possible Tier 0. The Source is an aspect of God and is not Tier 0.

What an important role does the Presence play for Crisis Cosmology anyway...

I think Swamp Thing is irrelevant to this.

 

[LazyMortician]

The Overvoid part bothered me so much so I decided to talk to Ultima. I've come to two possible conclusions:

1. The first option is to upgrade the Hands and Perpetua to just 1-A flat since there's no qualitative superiority that the Overvoid or Source has over the Unseen Council.
2. The second is downgrading the Overvoid, Source, Light, and Speedforce to just Low 1-A which makes Perpetua and the Hands on the same level of existence as those. While the Presence remains 1-A.

The second makes much more sense.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

The second makes much more sense.

The second does, however, Galley literally has R>F which gives it 1-A. The Low 1-A was only on the basis of concepts being deeper than space or time.

 

[Elizio33]

What an important role does the Presence play for Crisis Cosmology anyway...

I think Swamp Thing is irrelevant to this.

The Presence brought the light into the Primordial Darkness when he spoken "Let there be light" and send the Primordial Darkness to the Shadowlands. Many writers adhered to the idea that Source, Overvoid, Light are part of something bigger.

 

[LazyMortician]

The Presence brought the light into the Primordial Darkness when he spoken "Let there be light" and send the Primordial Darkness to the Shadowlands. Many writers adhered to the idea that Source, Overvoid, Light are part of something bigger.

It is clear that the power beyond Darkness and Light has never been revealed. Also, which writer thinks this way? Grant has said that Overvoid is God or Kirby's Source. Likewise, Scott does not think otherwise.

 

[LazyMortician]

The second does, however, Galley literally has R>F which gives it 1-A. The Low 1-A was only on the basis of concepts being deeper than space or time.

I think what you mentioned above does not guarantee R>F. If that were the case, as I mentioned before, it would be possible for the Hands to become 1-A because they use energy. And those who scale to these.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I think what you mentioned above does not guarantee R>F. If that were the case, as I mentioned before, it would be possible for the Hands to become 1-A because they use energy. And those who scale to these.

Being in a realm that’s deeper than space and time to me is Low 1-A + the showing of R>F gives it 1-A. Though, it’s possible it may not be R>F, which I make the case that it is simply because of the nature of the Gallery.

The “energy” and Hands are separate things. So I wouldn’t count that as something for 1-A especially since the said energy can be used up and depleted.

 

[LazyMortician]

Being in a realm that’s deeper than space and time to me is Low 1-A + the showing of R>F gives it 1-A. Though, it’s possible it may not be R>F, which I make the case that it is simply because of the nature of the Gallery.

The “energy” and Hands are separate things. So I wouldn’t count that as something for 1-A especially since the said energy can be used up and depleted.

If it were one of the energies in question, Speed Force 1-A, I would assume they were easily above that.

The phrase "deeper than space and time" is not 1-A because it is something remotely unrelated to R>F. Actually, I don't think this is a statement that would even guarantee Low 1-A, but the series explains it.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

If it were one of the energies in question, Speed Force 1-A, I would assume they were easily above that.

From what I’ve read. Only the Arc Angles and the source of the Speedforce is above it. Though, something like the Source and Presence are common sense.

The phrase "deeper than space and time" is not 1-A because it is something remotely unrelated to R>F. Actually, I don't think this is a statement that would even guarantee Low 1-A, but the series explains it.

It’s also said to be beyond time and space without context is flat Low 1-A. The R>F nature seems 1-A to me and the fact it’s at least Low 1-A already guaranteed higher possibility and 1-A seems to be the fit here.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Anyways, this is seven pages long. If we don’t want to change anything right now, we can keep the current proposal.

 

[Elizio33]

Anyways, this is seven pages long. If we don’t want to change anything right now, we can keep the current proposal.

Agreed. I think we should leave things as they are now and if there are things that need to be fixed in the future, we will handle them with a new CRT. The scans on the Source Wall being the boundary of space and time and the structure spanning all dimensions look very good to me, but let's end this thread and save all that for another thread instead.

 

[Elizio33]

The Source

Low 1-A | 1-A

Keys: Source Wall | The Source

Attack Potency: Low Outerverse level (The Source Wall is the boundary that separates the Orrery of Worlds from the Greater Omniverse, and exists within the confines of space and time, spanning all dimensions known and unknown) | Outerverse level (The Source is that which is the "all" and beyond the "all" arising directly from the Primordial Darkness as the First Epoch of the Universe, which is a long reverie dreamed by The Source since the beginning of time and would undoubtedly continue to do so long after the end. Throughout the Overvoid, beings like Perpetua create Multiverses under oath to The Source, using Connective Energy born of The Source. Resides on the same level of existence as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid and the two characters are frequently identified as being equal in nature and stature)

---

Great Darkness

Tier: 1-A

Attack Potency: Outerverse level (The Great Darkness is the single black infinitude that precedes all, its scope being more encompassing than the Light of Creation born in defiance of it, and yet has long dwindled out of its memory. Is considered to be the darkness equal to The Presence's light with their clash destroying all Creation)

---

Monitor-Mind The Overvoid

Tier: 1-A

Attack Potency: Outerverse level (Monitor-Mind is the infinite abstract intelligence and living conscious void that lies between Creation and the Great Darkness, standing utterly devoid of definition, beyond the crumbling ledges of the Source Wall where thought itself ceases to be, and in which form and meaning surrender to a vast void of light. Represents the white canvas of Creation in which the Multiverse grew and where infinite Multiverses are created and judged by The Hands under oath to The Source)

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Not bad. However, why exactly is the Source Wall consider a key in the Source profile. I just think it doesn’t need a tier, and if so then it should just be a separate profile.

 

[Elizio33]

Not bad. However, why exactly is the Source Wall consider a key in the Source profile. I just think it doesn’t need a tier, and if so then it should just be a separate profile.

Well. The Source once said that the Source Wall is a manifestation of The Source.

"Sometimes i'm a wall and a flaming hand."

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Well. The Source once said that the Source Wall is a manifestation of The Source.

"Sometimes i'm a wall and a flaming hand."

Eh, I hardly count that given the creation of the Source Wall kind of gives the vibe, it’s meant to be its own thing.

 

[Elizio33]

Eh, I hardly count that given the creation of the Source Wall kind of gives the vibe, it’s meant to be its own thing.

Well, that's not a big deal either, so it wouldn't matter if we don't count the Source Wall. However, the Low 1-A Promethean Galaxy/Source Wall (and the Garden of Shadows) could be used as a piece of evidence for 1-A Infinite, Unseen Council, Source, Overvoid, Light, Great Darkness.

 

[Elizio33]

This is a reinvented justification for the Unseen Council's tier.

The Hands

Tier: 1-A

Attack Potency: Outerverse level (The Hands reside on the same level of existence as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, being the "unseen hands" from outside the Source Wall that shaped the Multiverse and maintain order within the infinite Multiverses of the Greater Omniverse using the Connective Energy born of The Source. Comparable to Perpetua at her full might individually, though she feared that if her siblings became aware of her actions, they would come and erase her and her Multiverse from existence)

Perpetua

Tier: At least 1-B, likely 1-A

Attack Potency: At least Hyperverse level, likely Outerverse level (Superior to her three children and stalemated the Ultra-Monitor while she lacked her full power. Having restored most of her powers despite her supposedly diminished position in the cosmic ladder after being sealed in the Source Wall, Perpetua was able to re-string the Multiverse with the Forces of Doom and subdue the Ultra-Monitor. As the Multiverse was dominated by the Forces of Doom, Perpetua drew upon all the energy needed to bring the Multiverse to the brink of destruction and threatened to remake the Multiverse in her image with these energies. Was the only known being capable of rivaling the Darkest Knight and fought him in a clash that raged across every facet of reality. Is the most feared and riveled being among The Hands, and tore pieces from the Overvoid to create her three children)

 

[Elizio33]

I would have liked to have profiles for Chronicler and Cosmic Raptor, but they only have one appearance in the comics with a few mentions for the raptor. They would have been 1-A as well for existing on the same level of existence as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

I would have liked to have profiles for Chronicler and Cosmic Raptor, but they only have one appearance in the comics with a few mentions for the raptor. They would have been 1-A as well for existing on the same level of existence as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid.

I don’t mind the creation of the Chronicler profile. His one appearances kinda gives us just enough information.

 

[Elizio33]

I don’t mind the creation of the Chronicler profile. His one appearances kinda gives us just enough if donation.

Maybe, but the Cosmic Raptor's appearance alone isn't enough to create a profile. It's unfortunate since the Cosmic Raptor's power created the Source Wall to seal Perpetua and the Totality since the dawn of creation.

 

[Elizio33]

Chronicler

Tier: Likely 1-A

Attack Potency: Likely Outerverse level (Resides on the same level of existence as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, being an omniversal functionary of The Source monitoring and recording all histories of any dying Multiverse within the Greater Omniverse)

Durability: Likely Outerverse level (Chronicler claims to be protected by The Source of All Things)

Cosmic Raptor

Tier: 1-A

Attack Potency: Outerverse level (Resides on the same level of existence as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, and the Raptor's power created the Source Wall to seal Perpetua, her Great Army and the Totality before restarting Perpetua's Multiverse from the beginning of time. A fraction of the Raptor's power imbued in Hawkgirl's wings posed a danger to a greatly weakened Perpetua)

 

[Antvasima]

Elizio33, what is the current staff tally here, and can you explain everything that other staff members currently need to evaluate in a single post, please?

 

[Elizio33]

Elizio33, what is the current staff tally here, and can you explain everything that other staff members currently need to evaluate in a single post, please?

Okay. What is needed to evaluate is this:

Crisis Cosmology​

Dimensionality of the Orrery:

It has been repeatedly shown that the DC Multiverse is not limited to five dimensions, but actually has eleven dimensions based on M-Theory and Brane Cosmology (ten dimensions plus one temporal). The 2016's Hellblazer story suggested infinite planes and possibilities, including the Elemental Realms, which are serviced by eleven-dimensional invisible membranes of space and time. This would upgrade the Bleed and the Orrery of Worlds to High 1-C to be the "Bulk" containing those dimensions, and the Orrery of Worlds for containing the Bleed.

How this would affect the rest?​

Orrery of Worlds:

Before:

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Orrery and the Bleed are Low 1-C given the fifth-dimensional level contained within.

After:

Orrery of Worlds - High 1-C: The multiversal superstructure of fifty-two brane universes with eleven dimensions based on M-Theory and Brane Cosmology of which four dimensions constitute any single universe within the 11-D "Bulk" or "Bleed". It's possible that the Orrery of Worlds is not limited to eleven dimensions and that there may be higher dimensions, but since their locations in the cosmology have not been decided, it is difficult to locate them correctly.

Sphere of the Gods & Collective Unconscious:

Before:

Feats of creation or destruction of the level of the Sphere of the Gods and the Collective Unconscious are Low 1-C given their qualitative superiority over the Orrery of Worlds, adhering to two infinities above Low 2-C.

After:

Sphere of the Gods - 1-B: The magical sphere surrounding the Orrery of Worlds inhabited by gods, demigods, angels, demons or any magical being worshiped by mortals. It is located outside the Orrery's superluminal barrier, where matter is converted into pure information and thus outside of corporeal reality, having archetypal, platonic, and higher vibratory worlds than those of the Orrery of Worlds. It has close ties to beliefs which shaped every realm or entity in the Sphere of the Gods through the Collective Unconscious, and is one of the Connective Energy born of The Source. At the crest of the Sphere of the Gods is the Collective Unconscious, which manifests divinity through belief and is inhabited by Hecate. It is also one of the Connective Energy.

Comic Book Limbo:

Before:

Comic Book Limbo is Low 1-C, it hasn't showed any signs of qualitative superiority over the Sphere of the Gods despite being positioned higher on the map of the multiverse.

After:

Comic Book Limbo - 1-B: The last outpost of existence proper before reaching the Monitor Sphere and is the dumping ground for all the forgotten of the Orrery of Worlds. Despite being positioned higher on the Map of the Multiverse, Comic Book Limbo has shown no signs of quantitative superiority over the Sphere of the Gods.

Monitor Sphere:

Before:

The Monitor Sphere is straight 1-C due to its qualitative superiority over Comic Book Limbo, adhering to three infinities above Low 2-C.
The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place are 1-C due to its all-encompassing nature which includes the Monitor Sphere.

After:

Monitor Sphere - 1-B: The archetypal Monitor World inhabited by the Monitors of Nil, a primal and fundamental world where space, time, scale are more profound and meaningful. It exists at the edge of things, on a higher plane of existence than Comic Book Limbo, and when Mandrakk fell from there, he fell into the Overvoid and landed in the Dark Multiverse. From there, Mar Novu peered beyond the void, into the Greater Omniverse, to observe the neighboring Multiverses.

Dark Multiverse:

Before:

The Dark Multiverse and the Other Place are 1-C due to its all-encompassing nature which includes the Monitor Sphere.

After:

Dark Multiverse - 1-B: The sea of the unconscious upon which floats the Multiverse, located beneath Creation, and containing infinite universes based on the hopes and fears of all living beings in the Orrery of Worlds above. At the center of the Dark Multiverse lies the Forge of Worlds, a place of pure possibility and dark matter, where universes are forged and returned. On the border surrounding the Dark Multiverse is the Otherworld inhabited by the Otherkinds and the Upside-Down Man. It is the dark yet much larger equivalent of the Sphere of the Gods.

Divine Continuum/Totality of Creation:

Before:

The Totality of Creation/Divine Continuum is High 1-C for having the Dark Multiverse and Hypertime which is a three-dimensional time dimension, adhering to six infinities above Low 2-C.

After:

Divine Continuum - 1-B: The hypothetical model of Existence which is represented by all space and time. (i.e. Omniverse and Hypertime) The Space aspect of the Divine Continuum (Omniverse) is divided by the Orrery of Worlds (and infinite Multiverses), Metaverse (Earth Prime), Sphere of the Gods, Dark Multiverse. The Time aspect of the Divine Continuum (Hypertime) is divided into Limbo and Vanishing Point. It is very likely that higher layers of existence from the SpectraVerse are contained within it, though some layers are outside of Creation.

Fifth Dimension:

Before:

The Fifth Dimension is High 1-C for existing and flowing all around and between the realms of the Divine Continuum, adhering to a higher degree of said tier, but it has not been proven to be qualitatively superior to Hypertime.

After:

Fifth Dimension - 1-B: The "energy" that flows between realms is Imagination and is inhabited by imaginary-thought constructs which are considered as "imaginary friends" or "guardian angels". It exists everywhere at once, outside of Time and Hypertime. It has no specific place in the cosmology.

Sixth Dimension:

Before:

The Sixth Dimension is High 1-C for existing at the top of Divine Continuum and being the highest plane of existence, adhering to seven infinities above Low 2-C.

After:

Sixth Dimension - 1-B: The highest plane of existence and the final realm, between the Monitor Sphere and the Source Wall within the model of the DC Comics Cosmology. It is a realm of the impossible for things beyond the imagination of most living beings and is outside of time and understanding, in which lower beings could not experience without higher intervention. It distinct itself from the Monitor Sphere in that, although the Monitor Sphere exists at the edge of things, the Sixth Dimension is the highest plane of existence where the Multiverse was designed and set to motion by Perpetua.

Now, let's talk about the Greater Omniverse and the Big Three.
The new Flash series provided new insights into DC Comics Cosmology, introducing N-dimensional structures and a cosmological chart of dimensions based on Wally West's interference patterns as he folded through dimensions called "SpectraVerse" having either ten, eleven, or twenty-six discrete frequencies. These are essentially layers of existence and the SpectraVerse is a dimensional vibration to access different layers. The same story also featured an unknown conceptual place within the Speed Force called the "Garden of Shadows" or "Gallery of Moments", beyond the Source Wall, beneath everything, deeper than space and time and where though and expression are one.

This alone should qualify for a possible 1-A tier because this place is deeper than the concept of space and time, and everything is more profound there and generates a relationship to R>F as Wally West interacted through the comic book panel in a place far beyond and below time and space.

The Greater Omniverse was referred to as "Infinite" in this story and should scale to this since the Speed Force is part of The Source, and The Source gave rise to, encompasses and sustains all contents of the Greater Omniverse. Monitor-Mind The Overvoid/The Light of Creation should also scale to it for sharing an equal nature and stature to The Source and being the canvas of Creation outside space and time.

Miscellaneous:

• All of the Universe is a dream, a long reverie dreamed by The Source since the beginning of time and would undoubtedly continue to do so long after the end.
• The Source Wall exists at the boundaries of space and time, and spanned all dimensions known and unknown

How would they be affected?​

 Greater Omniverse:

Before:

Beings from the Unseen Council are High 1-C for being qualitatively superior to any realms of main DC Universe, equal to Perpetua at her full might individually.

After:

Greater Omniverse/Infinite - 1-A: Outside the Source Wall lies the "Infinite" or "Greater Omniverse" located within the Overvoid outside and beyond Creation, having conceptual places beyond space and time and where thought and expression are one. It is where infinite Multiverses are created and judged by The Hands, and where the Deep Change operates, the Speed Force being an enmanation of the Deep Change and one of the Connective Energy born of The Source, which itself contains the Gallery of Moments/Garden of Shadows.

Unseen Council/Hands:

Before:

Beings from the Unseen Council are High 1-C for being qualitatively superior to any realms of main DC Universe, equal to Perpetua at her full might individually.

After:

Unseen Council - Low 1-A: The hierarchy of unseen beings that eventually reach The Source. They reside outside the Source Wall, in the Overvoid where they oversee the infinite Multiverses within the Greater Omniverse under oath to The Source. Although they are positioned far higher in the hierarchy than any god within the Sphere of the Gods or the Monitor Sphere and have quantitative superiority over the Multiverse, they are not ontologically superior to it.

Source/Overvoid/Light:

Before:

The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation are 1-B for completely transcending the Divine Continuum and, by extension, all space and time.

After:

Source/Overvoid/Light - 1-A: The three primordial aspects of The Presence that gave rise to, encompasses and sustains everything in the Greater Omniverse. The Source is the great energy of creation associated with Life and Creation from which any of the Connective Energy, which includes the Speed Force, were born and used by The Hands to shape Multiversal Systems within the Void. The Overvoid/Light of Creation, sometimes associated with Heaven, Angels and Creation, is the conscious living void and canvas of Creation outside of time and space and between the Multiverse and the Great Darkness.

Great Darkness/Primordial Darkness:

Before:

The Great Darkness is 1-B for preceding, encompassing, and surpassing The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation.

After:

Great Darkness/Primordial Darkness - 1-A: The Primordial Darkness preceding life, death, matter and magic and of which nothing and everything were the same thing. The Source and The Light of Creation were born of the Primordial Darkness which encompasses all.

Creator/Presence/God:

Before:

The Creator is 1-B for surpassing the Primordial Darkness in power, and for being as transcendent to the Divine Continuum as The Source, Overvoid, and Light of Creation are.

After:

Creator/Presence/God - 1-A: The non-dual and immutable God who breathed everything into existence, standing utterly beyond the war of Light and Darkness, and all opposites, and is in a place where there is no time or space, being synonymous with the Void. It manifest itself in three distinct yet equal figures: Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, The Source, The Light of Creation. The Voice who created The Word when he first spoken, commanding The Light through it, is an aspect of God.

Thank you!

Agree: @VeryGoofyToddler @Antvasima @ProfectusInfinity @Firestorm808 @AerrowStorm1

Disagree:

Neutral: @Accelerated_Evolution

The reorganized justifications proposed for The Source, Overvoid, Great Darkness, Unseen Council and Perpetua:

The Source

Low 1-A | 1-A

Keys: Source Wall | The Source

Attack Potency: Low Outerverse level (The Source Wall is the boundary that separates the Orrery of Worlds from the Greater Omniverse, and exists within the confines of space and time, spanning all dimensions known and unknown) | Outerverse level (The Source is that which is the "all" and beyond the "all" arising directly from the Primordial Darkness as the First Epoch of the Universe, which is a long reverie dreamed by The Source since the beginning of time and would undoubtedly continue to do so long after the end. Throughout the Overvoid, beings like Perpetua create Multiverses under oath to The Source, using Connective Energy born of The Source. Resides on the same level of existence as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid and the two characters are frequently identified as being equal in nature and stature)

Great Darkness

Tier: 1-A

Attack Potency: Outerverse level (The Great Darkness is the single black infinitude that precedes all, its scope being more encompassing than the Light of Creation born in defiance of it, and yet has long dwindled out of its memory. Is considered to be the darkness equal to The Presence's light with their clash destroying all Creation)

Monitor-Mind The Overvoid

Tier: 1-A

Attack Potency: Outerverse level (Monitor-Mind is the infinite abstract intelligence and living conscious void that lies between Creation and the Great Darkness, standing utterly devoid of definition, beyond the crumbling ledges of the Source Wall where thought itself ceases to be, and in which form and meaning surrender to a vast void of light. Represents the white canvas of Creation in which the Multiverse grew and where infinite Multiverses are created and judged by The Hands under oath to The Source)

The Hands

Tier: Low 1-A

Attack Potency: Low Outerverse level (The Hands reside on the same level of existence as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid, being the "unseen hands" from outside the Source Wall that shaped the Multiverse and maintain order within the infinite Multiverses of the Greater Omniverse using the Connective Energy born of The Source. Comparable to Perpetua at her full might individually, though she feared that if her siblings became aware of her actions, they would come and erase her and her Multiverse from existence)

Perpetua

Tier: At least 1-B, likely Low 1-A

Attack Potency: At least Hyperverse level, likely Low Outerverse level (Superior to her three children and stalemated the Ultra-Monitor while she lacked her full power. Having restored most of her powers despite her supposedly diminished position in the cosmic ladder after being sealed in the Source Wall, Perpetua was able to re-string the Multiverse with the Forces of Doom and subdue the Ultra-Monitor. As the Multiverse was dominated by the Forces of Doom, Perpetua drew upon all the energy needed to bring the Multiverse to the brink of destruction and threatened to remake the Multiverse in her image with these energies. Was the only known being capable of rivaling the Darkest Knight and fought him in a clash that raged across every facet of reality. Is the most feared and riveled being among The Hands, and tore pieces from the Overvoid to create her three children)

 

[Elizio33]

Basically, a consensus is still pending.

 

[Antvasima]

Elizio33, what is the current staff tally here, and can you explain everything that other staff members currently need to evaluate in a single post, please?

@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Deagonx @Catzlaflame @ByAsura @Emirp sumitpo @IdiosyncraticLawyer @Maverick_Zero_X @LordTracer @M3X_2.0 @Dark-Carioca @Maverick_Zero_X @DarkDragonMedeus

Would you be willing to help evaluate this please?

DC/Crisis Cosmology Revision

Also. Another contents for the Source Wall: The Source Wall exists at the boundaries of space and time (we can use this as an evidence that the wall is the boundary of the Divine Continuum), and spanned all dimensions known and unknown. Both are Low 1-A descriptions.

vsbattles.com

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The Source

Low 1-A | 1-A

Keys: Source Wall | The Source

Attack Potency: Low Outerverse level (The Source Wall is the boundary that separates the Orrery of Worlds from the Greater Omniverse, and exists within the confines of space and time, spanning all dimensions known and unknown) | Outerverse level (The Source is that which is the "all" and beyond the "all" arising directly from the Primordial Darkness as the First Epoch of the Universe, which is a long reverie dreamed by The Source since the beginning of time and would undoubtedly continue to do so long after the end. Throughout the Overvoid, beings like Perpetua create Multiverses under oath to The Source, using Connective Energy born of The Source. Resides on the same level of existence as Monitor-Mind The Overvoid and the two characters are frequently identified as being equal in nature and stature)

---

Great Darkness

Tier: 1-A

Attack Potency: Outerverse level (The Great Darkness is the single black infinitude that precedes all, its scope being more encompassing than the Light of Creation born in defiance of it, and yet has long dwindled out of its memory. Is considered to be the darkness equal to The Presence's light with their clash destroying all Creation)

---

Monitor-Mind The Overvoid

Tier: 1-A

Attack Potency: Outerverse level (Monitor-Mind is the infinite abstract intelligence and living conscious void that lies between Creation and the Great Darkness, standing utterly devoid of definition, beyond the crumbling ledges of the Source Wall where thought itself ceases to be, and in which form and meaning surrender to a vast void of light. Represents the white canvas of Creation in which the Multiverse grew and where infinite Multiverses are created and judged by The Hands under oath to The Source)

Looks good to me.

 

[Elizio33]

Looks good to me.

Cool. What about the rest of the proposal?

 

[HakutoRei000]

Are there layers in the tier? Or baseline?

 

[Elizio33]

Are there layers in the tier? Or baseline?

Yes

 

[Elizio33]

Bump.

 

[Eseseso]

Bump.

Just curious, will the Anti Monitor's true state be bumped from High 1-C to 1-A?

 

[Elizio33]

Just curious, will the Anti Monitor's true state be bumped from High 1-C to 1-A?

He will be 1-B.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Are there layers in the tier? Or baseline?

It’s all baseline save the Presence, whom probably is one layer.

 

[Elizio33]

Has this thread reached an agreement?

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Typically, if the voting session started 48 hours prior and you have the majority of the staff vote then grace period usually ends there and the changes can be applied.

 

[Weaver261]

Just to be clear, didn't chronicler said the source exist above him when talking about cosmic ladder of existence? Just like chronicler is several time higher existence than new gods, the source exists above chronicler. That clearly indicate the transcendent. So, it's kinda meh for me to consider source and chronicler to be the same tier honestly unless layers into 1-A is specifically stated.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler2]

Just to be clear, didn't chronicler said the source exist above him when talking about cosmic ladder of existence? Just like chronicler is several time higher existence than new gods, the source exists above chronicler. That clearly indicate the transcendent. So, it's kinda meh for me to consider source and chronicler to be the same tier honestly unless layers into 1-A is specifically stated.

You can be higher in a hierarchy without being qualitatively superior.

 

[Swanyee9t76]

Just to be clear, didn't chronicler said the source exist above him when talking about cosmic ladder of existence? Just like chronicler is several time higher existence than new gods, the source exists above chronicler. That clearly indicate the transcendent. So, it's kinda meh for me to consider source and chronicler to be the same tier honestly unless layers into 1-A is specifically stated.

It should be high 1-a since Source was meant to be supreme being of Greater Omniverse, which means no matter how the entities ranking up, Source will be top 1 in term of Hierarchy. Transcending rest of Hierarchy can be qualify as High 1a yea?