DC Comics: The Light of Creation/The Great Darkness/The Presence (Vertigo) - Clean-up

[VeryGoofyToddler]

I’ll just debunk the remaining notions that Xearsay has.

Claim 1: The form that we see of the Upside Downman is just a shadow of what he is.

• Not evidently true at the slightest. He, himself, is his own being, thus he takes form so that they could comprehend better. There’s no bigger or exterior version of him outside that form, it’s him, just in flesh.

Claim 2: The Darkness we saw in the war of afterlives was a sliver of the Otherkind, of the Upside Downman

• Evidently, true only to the information presented during Justice League Dark. Which Dark Crisis doesn’t adhere to that logic since the Upside Downman is just a puppet to the Great Darkness, the primordial shadow that predates all of Creation, which the Upside Downman doesn’t even predate the Sphere of the Gods.

Claim 3: The true form of the Upside Downman is infinite and limitless in power

• He took a scan out of context and manipulate it to seem as such. Upside Downman even made it clear that “he, at the location(Otherplace) is where he’s the most powerful where his magic is infinite and limitless.” It does not mention anything to do with “form” or some sort of larger being he is. Given the Otherplace is just a voidless realm that was shaped by his belief, and that Swamp Thing even almost beat him in controlling the Otherplace as it’s just an infected space as Upside Downman claims.

Also, here’s some extra reasoning why his takes are very incoherent and are actual invalid interpretations of the stories.

• As I mention earlier, the Upside Downman alongside the others who were enslaved by Pariah were seeking to control the Darkness. If the Upside Downman was the Darkness then why would he want to control his own self?
• As Deagon mentioned earlier, the Upside Downman is just the horror of Hecate manifested into a being. A dark mirror reflection of herself that mocks and mimic her. As she represents the Light Multiverse, the Sphere, and the Collective Unconcious. The Upside Downman represent the Dark Multiverse, the Otherplace, and the Otherkind. The Sphere and beliefs predate Hecate, and Hecate predates the Upside Downman, while the Darkness is literallly older than all of Creation.
• Upside Dowman also draws power from the Source, which the Darkness exist externally of. Since the Source produced the Supercelestial whom took those energy of the Source to make the Multiverse and Hecate was born, and through her the Upside Downman. The Darkness predates all that.
• By Xearsay logic, that would mean the Darkness is just a dark reflection of the Sphere and exist below 5th, 6th, and higher dimensional beings.
• Also, the Darkness exit externally from belief and the Multiverse which shaped everything including the Source thus even Hecate and Upside Downman would be included.

The list goes on. However, I suggest we move from this topic, if he’s going to be stubborn about his points that the stories don’t even support.

 

[Deagonx]

This has gotten drastically off track. @Xearsay if you want to make the case that the UDM is equivalent to the Great Darkness, at this point I have to insist that you just make a different thread entirely. This thread is about how we intend to organize and format the profiles.

@VeryGoofyToddler @Weaver261 This goes for you two as well, please stop the cosmology debate. I'll be removing any further comments about it.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

@VeryGoofyToddler @Weaver261 This goes for you two as well, please stop the cosmology debate. I'll be removing any further comments about it.

Yeah, I suggest we move from that since I know it was veering off topic. However, you were in the discussion as well. So there’s that, but I already put my thoughts about the topic much earlier.

 

[IdiosyncraticLawyer]

What have we concluded? I haven't been keeping up.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

So, everyone here so far: @Weaver261 @Deagonx @Elizio33 as well as myself have said we could go the route of letting the Light/Overvoid become something of an aspect of the Presence rather than the three being an aspect of the Light.

I vouch for this take:

This.

 

[Elizio33]

What have we concluded? I haven't been keeping up.

I have proposed two solutions to this. The first is to merge The Source and Monitor-Mind The Overvoid profiles into a new profile for The Light of Creation, and to keep The Presence profiles for Vertigo, although there would be mentions of The Presence's name in The Light of Creation profiles (option 1). The second is that we are creating a new key in the Presence profiles related to Crisis Cosmology called “The Creator,” and we are making footnotes on all three profiles explaining the relationship between them and the Light of Creation (option 2).

 

[Elizio33]

Here's what the footnote might look like:

"While ambiguous on some occasions due to the different approaches of various DC writers, several comics have suggested or outright stated that The Source, The Light of Creation, Monitor-Mind The Overvoid were born from the Primordial Darkness, thus making them aspects of The Presence that is clearly stated on numerous occasions as the one who brought light into the Primordial Darkness with the words "Let there be light!", which gave birth to them."

The following is optional but briefly explains the nature of the following entities and their relationships to each other.

The Light of Creation is associated to Heaven, Angels and Creation and is fundamentally a force of nature in contrast to the Great Darkness, locked together in an eternal struggle. Its true appearance has been clarified as the featureless, conscious void beyond time and space, between Creation and the Great Darkness, in which the Multiverse grew; the Overvoid.

The Source is associated with Life, Magic and Creation, and is the great energy of creation, born out of the Primordial Darkness living in, and sustaining all things in existence. All universes, multiverses flow through The Source and is responsible for the birth of the Greater Omniverse through its energy used by The Hands to shapes multiverses within the Void.

The Creator/Presence is the background essence which unite its major aspects; The Light of Creation, The Source, Monitor-Mind The Overvoid as a singular, supreme God devoid of definition who created the Light of Creation and sent the Great Darkness to the Shadowlands.

 

[VeryGoofyToddler]

Here's what the footnote might look like:

"While ambiguous on some occasions due to the different approaches of various DC writers, several comics have suggested or outright stated that The Source, The Light of Creation, Monitor-Mind The Overvoid were born from the Primordial Darkness, thus making them aspects of The Presence that is clearly stated on numerous occasions as the one who brought light into the Primordial Darkness with the words "Let there be light!", which gave birth to them."

The following is optional but briefly explains the nature of the following entities and their relationships to each other.

The Light of Creation is associated to Heaven, Angels and Creation and is fundamentally a force of nature in contrast to the Great Darkness, locked together in an eternal struggle. Its true appearance has been clarified as the featureless, conscious void beyond time and space, between Creation and the Great Darkness, in which the Multiverse grew; the Overvoid.

The Source is associated with Life, Magic and Creation, and is the great energy of creation, born out of the Primordial Darkness living in, and sustaining all things in existence. All universes, multiverses flow through The Source and is responsible for the birth of the Greater Omniverse through its energy used by The Hands to shapes multiverses within the Void.

The Creator/Presence is the background essence which unite its major aspects; The Light of Creation, The Source, Monitor-Mind The Overvoid as a singular, supreme God devoid of definition who created the Light of Creation and sent the Great Darkness to the Shadowlands.

I have nothing but agreements on my behalf. This is a good assessment.