Challenging High 6-B Fairy Tail

[CinCameron20]

Edit - Stop reading this initial post. The argument has shifted greatly from this as the thread progressed. Move on.

Indeed, if an explosion engulfed Fiore and widespread destruction or near-total fatalities engulfed the country to its coasts, it would be 6-B to High 6-B. However, why use these values? These are incredibly high end as compared to other methods. And it's not supported that an explosion from Etherion would engulf the entire country itself. Hyperbole.

"Destroying a country with a single blow" could be resulting in several ways. And the "High 6-B" version is not supported in the slightest, especially when it is a high-end.

Lower ends can result in barely touching 6-B (such as Fragmentation), but that's assuming it is destroyed down to sea-level, which is also pretty wank when nothing like this has been displayed... ever.


This scan for example displays an example of Etherion's destructive capacity. If it isn't already obvious enough, the size of the explosion is merely towering over mountains that are close by. Even if we were to high-ball these mountains to Everest size or something larger, this explosion would have a diameter of merely 80~100 kilometers. Nothing compared to what's required of High 6-B energies. This is 6-C+ (roughly 85 Gigatons of Tnt) when exaggerating the size of the mountains to being Everest size... lower end 6-C if we're using average mountain size.

For further evidence, here is the chapter displaying Etherion in use, blowing up the Tower of Heave. Spoiler: The explosion is barely tier 6 worthy (page 6). If anyone wants to calc it, go right ahead. And yes, I know Jellal was trying to absorb the energy, I only care for the resulting explosion.

The point is that in both cases we see it in use, it has displayed nothing comparable to 6-B, let alone High 6-B energies. Both of these feats are 6-C, nothing more.

While it could technically destroy a country the size of Fiore, everyone automatically assumes it means "entirely" as in from coast to coast and top to bottom when there has been NO such feat displayed (we never see it used in such a fashion regardless), and there's a thing called "Hyperbole". The Etherion has anti-feats to disprove it from being where it currently stands.

The verse should not be scaling to this type of statement when there's no feats to support it, and leaving Fiore in a ruined condition could easily be as low as 6-C.

 

[Captain_Torch]

Etherion doesn't have any anti-feats. The ToH explosion didn't even spread completely because it was all absorbed into the Tower which makes it null.

The reason Etherion was accepted as High 6-B is because of reliable statements from characters, as well as the fact that it was used before the Alvarez War.


Personally, I'm against giving Etherion simply "High 6-B" because of the size of Fiore. Especially since the guys on NF actually did calc the explosion of Etherion back from Jellal's flashback(which was accepted):

https://www.narutoforums.org/threads/fairy-tail-etherion.1122249/

This resulted in 4.3 teratons(Low 6-B+) using widespread, and 81.4 teratons(6-B+) using near total fatalities.

So while I disagree on the whole "It could be in the low 6-C", because it is definetly in the "6-B" region, I think it's best to use a confirmed calced value than an assumption.

 

[CinCameron20]

The scan provided does not show an entire country. It shows a mountain range and it goes off panel. No coasts, no ocean, nothing of the sort. And besides, if the fire-ball indeed exceeded a diameter of 4000km, it would be exiting the atmosphere. This clearly does not. It goes above the clouds, which makes it anywhere from 10 to 20km. That's low end 6-C using the fire-ball.

Not to mention the linked calc does NOT provide any scaling images, so it's baseless, to boot.

 

[Antvasima]

To initiate a statistics revision you should preferably calculate the feat, place it in a blog post, and ask for an evaluation, and then return here after it has been accepted.

 

[Antvasima]

You can also use the Fairy Tail section of the Knowledgeable Members List to find people to ask to comment here afterwards.

 

[BlackeJan]

I'll say it many times as I said b4....why don't we just calc the other 2 countries that r smaller then Fiore & if they result in High 6-B then Etherion is that

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Wow, so 6-C Etherion? Guess everyone goes back to High 6-C if this is accepted.

 

[BlackeJan]

I'll say it many times as I said b4....why don't we just calc the other 2 countries that r smaller then Fiore & if they result in High 6-B then Etherion is that

^^^^

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

How would they result in High 6-B when a bigger country yields 6-C results without widespread destruction and near total fatalities?

 

[Homu_Sweet_Homu]

I don't know why I bother commenting here, but this will be my only contribute here cuz I'm tired with the constant FT revision thread. (I know how you feel now Dragon)

Irene has a solid High 6-C feat. Etherion, the weapon that made Zeref hesitated to invade Ishgar, being weaker is just downright illogical. And a country level statement in a verse that has Tier 6 top tier isn't as hyperbolic as everyone believe.

 

[BlackeJan]

How would they result in High 6-B when a bigger country yields 6-C results without widespread destruction and near total fatalities?

Reason why I say this b/c Mavis said that Ehtrrion can "destroy a country" now I honestly don't believe that they r high 6-B but Fiore was calcef to be at that tier

 

[HST_Master]

Isn't there a country level Wahl Icht etherion blast calc somewhere? And IIRC they're scaled from August's magic power and The Ravines Of Time which is why Natsu, Zeref and Acno are the only High 6-Bs

 

[BlackeJan]

Isn't there a country level Wahl Icht etherion blast calc somewhere? And IIRC they're scaled from August's magic power and The Ravines Of Time which is why Natsu, Zeref and Acno are the only High 6-Bs

Well the reason why they even scaled 2 that is Fiore being calced at High 6B & Mavis saying that Ehterion can destroy a country. Wall never had a ehterion blast if I'm correct it was calced like at 7B or 7A

 

[BlackeJan]

So like I said b4 why don't we calc the other countries that r smaller then Fiore & see what we get

 

[HST_Master]

Found the Wahl calc https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:CNBA3/Wall_Eehto's_Cal_Redone?comments_page=1

And I absolutely agree with Homu

 

[Captain_Torch]

The scan provided does not show an entire country. It shows a mountain range and it goes off panel. No coasts, no ocean, nothing of the sort. And besides, if the fire-ball indeed exceeded a diameter of 4000km, it would be exiting the atmosphere. This clearly does not. It goes above the clouds, which makes it anywhere from 10 to 20km. That's low end 6-C using the fire-ball.
Not to mention the linked calc does NOT provide any scaling images, so it's baseless, to boot.

Are we looking at the same scan? We can definetly see country seven almost completely engulfed by the Etherion Blast. Also, using fire-ball is a no-no in this situation, widespread is the minimum, even then it's a lowball. The statement says "etherion could take out a whole country within its blast radius". Keyword "take out a whole country". You don't take out a whole country using fireball.

If you disagree with the scaling because of the lack of scaling images, recalc the feat yourself and try to counter it. The fact that there is actual scaling, and the fact that it was accepted on that forum(Which is often far more reliable than vsbattles) even further supports it.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Dragon Cry, which is stated to be 10x stronger than Etherion, is supposedly able to possible destroy All of Ishgar, OVER TIME, which means it must be able to completely destroy a country and Mavis, a genius mage has stated that it can destroy a country, Irene and August, have been able to have magic power, that can effect the whole country of Fiore, and Etherion is definitely way stronger than they are, so Etherion being able to destroy a Country is true, now whatever that yields is not to my Knowledge, but it seems like High 6-B so that should stay

 

[Captain_Torch]

Also, after rechecking the calculation, I realized that the images actually have scaling, making your point null

 

[BlackeJan]

Why do people ignore my post? *starts crying*

 

[BlackeJan]

AGAIN....let's calc countries that r SMALLER then Fiore & see what we get!

 

[CinCameron20]

People basically ignore that I am stating that Etherion has NOTHING supporting it being where it is. Destroying a country can be done without blowing the entire landscape to kingdom come and engulfing the entire area with a massive fire-ball or air-burst. Etherion has not displayed the capability to do either with its showings. Bumping the verse to High 6-B by a statement that we automatically ASSUME to be WSD or NTF is ridiculous when the feats contradict that idea entirely with its fire-ball only going some tens of kilometers in diameter at the very most.

@Captain - The explosion itself, suggesting the range of NTF, would be reaching outer-space if it were engulfing the entire country, and if we could see the entire explosion straight on, we'd see the curvature of the planet--which we clearly do not, and the explosion merely ranges above a few mountains. Aren't you talking about the image in the Original Post? if not, clarify.

 

[Antvasima]

CinCameron20 has a point, but we still need a proper calculation for the feat in order to perform a revision.

 

[Captain_Torch]

@CinCameron

It would only be reaching outer space if FT's world was the same size as ours. FT's world is far bigger - Fiore, one of the smaller countries in ishgar, is the size of Russia.

If you mean the "mountains" on the left side of the image, then I agree, it is kinda weird. We see the ocean and the country itself, and the objects on the right look like a mountain/cloud mix. Either an inconsistency or weird drawing.

That said, the image shown is solid enough for it to be quantifiable, especially being supported by reliable statements from other characters. We can either use this calc, or use the size of Fiore to quantify an Etherion blast, which would result in 25.4 teratons(WSD) - 484 teratons(NTF), which is a higher number.

Also, you are wrong on Etherion having "nothing" to support it. Not only was it stated by a reliable character, it was also fired sometime before the start of the series, as stated in the manga(when Zeref + Spriggans wanted to attack Fiore/Ishgar).

And there aren't any feats that contradict Etherion's DC, neither is it hyperbolic, given we have a High 6-C feat done by a top tier who is inferior to god tiers.

 

[LordGinSama]

I agree fully, especially since this is the only feat like this in the verse. It's a blatant outlier whenever the second best feat is only low end High 6-C and the jump from High 6-C to High 6-B is Massive

 

[BlackeJan]

CinCameron20 has a point, but we still need a proper calculation for the feat in order to perform a revision.

Can u read my above post about doing a calc on the other countries that r smaller then Fiore

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Not sure if Etherion would be an outlier.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Ant - I will see if i can do something about it, but there's nothing to reliably scale to the size of the explosion other than using low ends and high ends for mountain height. Regardless, even using an everest sized mountain (incredibly high-ball), the yield probably wouldn't go over 100 Gigatons for the fire-ball.

@Captain - It doesn't matter if it is bigger than Earth unless you mean by an astronomical amount. Iirc, the FT planet is scaled as only being roughly 4-5x the size of Earth (will have to correct me). The atmosphere wouldn't be 4000km in thickness--in fact it would barely be in the triple digits, if that. You'd still see the curvature, even a fair amount of the planet when viewing an explosion of that size directly and that size of an explosion would still be in SPACE. Even a Super Volcano eruption would be an ant compared to that.

Also, Fiore is slightly larger than Australia, not as big as Russia.

Edit: The Planet Diameter is 44907km, so yeah, ~3.5x Earth diameter. My point stands.

 

[Schnee_One]

It's a blatant outlier whenever the second best feat is only low end High 6-C and the jump from High 6-C to High 6-B is Massive

Really?

 

[CinCameron20]

im not saying Etherion is an outlier. it isn't. There's simply no support for it being High 6-B as i keep saying but get ignored.

 

[LordGinSama]

Nice Strawman Gargoyle, but this thread has nothing to do with Fiamma. And the difference between Fiamma and this is that Fiamma comes from a series filled with planet busting statements, ergo there's no for that to be an outlier. Now stop with with false equivalence. Anyway High 6-B FT is unsupported as Cin stated previously.

 

[Captain_Torch]

@CinCameron, whoops meant to say antarctica. Goofed on that one, my bad.

And? 3.5x Earth diameter is a huge difference. Besides, that panel might be curvature scaled for all we know. The panel isn't clear enough to assume that there is or isn't planet curvature(Personally, it does look like it curves a little at the edges). As for the clouds, that's just Hiro's drawing style. He did the same when Irene enhanted the entirety of Fiore:

https://static1.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11129/111296664/5376404-0335786878-image.png

Besides, as I already said, there's another version that uses Fiore's size to calculate the potency of Etherion. In my personal opinion, calculating the actual on panel blast is more reliable, but we can alway use fiore instead(which yields higher numbers btw)

 

[CinCameron20]

@Captain - a 3.5x difference is small. Incredibly small. And there is not a curve in that panel at all. And like I said, scaling to a single mountain using an avg height of mountains in japan or, well, anywhere, would give 10~20km max for the explosion diameter.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Cin

Wait the planet has a 45,000 km diameter? Wut

 

[CinCameron20]

@Assault - Yeah, but it's not really relevant to this feat.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

im not saying Etherion is an outlier. it isn't. There's simply no support for it being High 6-B as i keep saying but get ignored.

Do you really think Etherions full power, is weaker than Irenes magic, August's suicide attack, and the characters flat out say the'll destroy a Country completely, I don't see how this can be a hyperbole, The smartest characters in the verse say it will destroy and it's 10x wesker than Dragon Cry, which is implied to have enough power to destroy all of Ishgar, which means it's at least one tenth of that which should be calculated

 

[CinCameron20]

destroying something "over time" means less energy. if it takes 10 full seconds for Dragon Cry to apply (random value) something like 65 Teratons, that means it would only have AP of 6.5 (.65 for Etherion). Show me a feat from Dragon Cry.

 

[CinCameron20]

@Captain - If Etherion has a feat inferior to Irene, but it's continuously stated to be more powerful, then ofc it would powerscale to Irene's tier, but with an "At least". Not jump 3 full tiers up.

 

[Captain_Torch]

@CinCameron

I never compared Irene's feat to Etherion though... Did you quote me by accident?


Anyways, as I said, those "mountains" are likely clouds which are drawn weirdly or something. So the explosion makes sense.

But if a lot of people disagree with the calced on-panel version of Etherion, I guess we'll have to use the calced version of Etherion's output on Fiore.

But the feat itself makes sense. We see the outline of the country and the ocean around. We see Etherion's blast taking up most of the country, and have an actual statement of Etherion being able to bust a country. The only "counterpoint" is the weirdly drawn clouds which look like mountains. But that can just be written of as drawing style/ittle inconsistency.

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

im not saying Etherion is an outlier. it isn't. There's simply no support for it being High 6-B as i keep saying but get ignored.

Do you really think Etherions full power, is weaker than Irene's Universe One and August's Suicide attack, also Dragon Cry is implied to destroy all of Ishgar, and Etherion is 1/10 of that, which mean with a highball it could detstroy 1/10 of Ishgar, also The Smartest Characters in the verse repeatedly state that Etherion can completely obliterate the Country, on several equations, it's not hyperbole that Etherion is High 6-B

 

[DemonGodMitchAubin]

Oops I thought my first comment didn't post, ignore the one above me