Saqphire
She/Her- 63
- 49
Hello, this will be a thread/a very coherent rant about the Celestial Spirit King and his Eclipse versions (for further references, CSK and ECSK) and challenge his High 6-C status, his outlier status and/or his Eclipse versions’ canonicity to the main Fairy Tail story.
My premise is that the CSK’s scaling shouldn’t be blocked from one WOG statement.
There is absolutely no other indication in the source manga, nor in the 100 Years Quest that states or implies that the Spriggans are stronger than the prime version of the CSK or his Eclipse versions whatsoever. There is no feat, no statement and no implication of that in the two mangas or the anime at all is what I’m trying to say, which brings me no choice but to bring up the statement page of this wiki, namely Option 5 and the ”WoG” definition in the glossary
The statement I’m talking about clearly falls under option 5 as it’s an afterword statement outside of the story and this would mean that the Spriggans might be the strongest characters in history, if we take the context of the manga narrative of the Alvarez arc, namely them fighting on Earthland. This means if we take that statement to face value, it would be contradicted by putting those characters in the CSK/ECSK setting aka if they fought the CSK/ECSK in their arcs/in their world, not summoned by anyone, looking at their tier 4-2 feats, the Spriggans would get hilariously stomped, Irene and August included.
What I’m saying is that the WoG statement is being contradicted by the source material aka the CSK and the ECSK.
We’d think this if we look at the CSK and the ECSK’s feats that show that his narrative is clearly to be above everyone in the verse with mid tier 4 to tier 2 level feats whereas the Spriggan’s narrative brings out feats that are vastly below that.
And see, when we scale people, we take narrative over feats/statements and feats along with reliable statements (This was done when the ECSK’s arc was considered canon and nobody wanted to upscale the verse to 4-B or higher because of Fairy Tail’s narrative).
However this would NOT apply to the CSK summoned by Lucy as his power as a Celestial Spirit is directly tied to her own (Fairy Tail: Chapter 386 and 100 Years Quest: Chapter 72).
Who’d scale to him? The answer is absolutely nobody, which the narrative would support by having him never be defeated by anyone without any significant circumstances.
The Celestial Spirit World is portrayed numerous of times, both in the manga and the anime to be a dimension with a starry sky, which is the baseline for 4-A. This world is also stated in the anime to be an infinite void of space, shadow and time with a different temporal dimension from Earthland which is also I believe a requirement for low 2-C.
Option A) Upgrade his Eclipse versions to 4-A or 2-C for the feats in that arc plus being stated to be capable of affecting Earthland and the Celestial Spirit World at the same time.
Keys would look like this:
High 6-C | Low 2-C | 2-C | 2-C
or alternatively
High 6-C | 4-A | 4-A | 4-A
Or B) We straight up delete the arc from being canon in the first place and therefore we remove his Eclipse keys and his feats from his page. There are arguments for both sides aka there are arguments for that arc being canon that has already been accepted and there are counter-arguments for that arc.
His keys would look like this if we pick option B:
High 6-C | Low 2-C
alternatively
High 6-C | 4-A
In this manner, this wouldn’t break the main scaling of the verse and it would make both sides of the Fairy Tail scaling community very happy.
Agree (Option A):
Agree (Option B):
Neutral:
Disagree:
Oh and as always, be polite and read through the arguments properly please. Fallacious arguments, especially from incredulity and disbelief and unneccessary comments such as ”move this to fun and games”, will NOT be tolerated or considered and if it gets too much I will personally ask the staff to move this to the staff-only section.
My premise is that the CSK’s scaling shouldn’t be blocked from one WOG statement.
Arguments
The main reason as to why this wiki scale the CSK and his Eclipse versions vastly below people like the Spriggan 12 is mainly because of one afterword statement from Hiro Mashima about the Spriggans. That’s it.There is absolutely no other indication in the source manga, nor in the 100 Years Quest that states or implies that the Spriggans are stronger than the prime version of the CSK or his Eclipse versions whatsoever. There is no feat, no statement and no implication of that in the two mangas or the anime at all is what I’m trying to say, which brings me no choice but to bring up the statement page of this wiki, namely Option 5 and the ”WoG” definition in the glossary
The statement I’m talking about clearly falls under option 5 as it’s an afterword statement outside of the story and this would mean that the Spriggans might be the strongest characters in history, if we take the context of the manga narrative of the Alvarez arc, namely them fighting on Earthland. This means if we take that statement to face value, it would be contradicted by putting those characters in the CSK/ECSK setting aka if they fought the CSK/ECSK in their arcs/in their world, not summoned by anyone, looking at their tier 4-2 feats, the Spriggans would get hilariously stomped, Irene and August included.
What I’m saying is that the WoG statement is being contradicted by the source material aka the CSK and the ECSK.
We’d think this if we look at the CSK and the ECSK’s feats that show that his narrative is clearly to be above everyone in the verse with mid tier 4 to tier 2 level feats whereas the Spriggan’s narrative brings out feats that are vastly below that.
And see, when we scale people, we take narrative over feats/statements and feats along with reliable statements (This was done when the ECSK’s arc was considered canon and nobody wanted to upscale the verse to 4-B or higher because of Fairy Tail’s narrative).
Goal
This argument/CRT, if accepted, leads me to conclude that we should dismiss that afterword statement because of said contradictions, evaluate the feats from the Spriggans individually (their tier doesn’t have to change, I’m simply putting the CSK’s narrative above theirs via feats) and put the CSK’s Full Power key to either 4-A or Low 2-C for MASSIVELY outscaling everyone in the verse (yes, this includes Acnologia) via his feats and statements + his source material narrative trumping over the Spriggan afterword statement and the fact that nobody else in the verse has feats that’s even close to the CSK’s.However this would NOT apply to the CSK summoned by Lucy as his power as a Celestial Spirit is directly tied to her own (Fairy Tail: Chapter 386 and 100 Years Quest: Chapter 72).
Who’d scale to him? The answer is absolutely nobody, which the narrative would support by having him never be defeated by anyone without any significant circumstances.
The Celestial Spirit World
I had an oversight and thought the CSW was already accepted to be a separate universe (Low 2-C), which I will explain in the OP here:The Celestial Spirit World is portrayed numerous of times, both in the manga and the anime to be a dimension with a starry sky, which is the baseline for 4-A. This world is also stated in the anime to be an infinite void of space, shadow and time with a different temporal dimension from Earthland which is also I believe a requirement for low 2-C.
Options if Accepted
And with that, we face two options:Option A) Upgrade his Eclipse versions to 4-A or 2-C for the feats in that arc plus being stated to be capable of affecting Earthland and the Celestial Spirit World at the same time.
Keys would look like this:
High 6-C | Low 2-C | 2-C | 2-C
or alternatively
High 6-C | 4-A | 4-A | 4-A
Or B) We straight up delete the arc from being canon in the first place and therefore we remove his Eclipse keys and his feats from his page. There are arguments for both sides aka there are arguments for that arc being canon that has already been accepted and there are counter-arguments for that arc.
His keys would look like this if we pick option B:
High 6-C | Low 2-C
alternatively
High 6-C | 4-A
In this manner, this wouldn’t break the main scaling of the verse and it would make both sides of the Fairy Tail scaling community very happy.
Agree (Option A):
Agree (Option B):
Neutral:
Disagree:
Oh and as always, be polite and read through the arguments properly please. Fallacious arguments, especially from incredulity and disbelief and unneccessary comments such as ”move this to fun and games”, will NOT be tolerated or considered and if it gets too much I will personally ask the staff to move this to the staff-only section.
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