Classroom Of The Elite revamp - White Room Edition + Accepted calcs and scaling

[XxZetsuxX]

Hello all, I wanted to revamp all of the classroom of the elite characters profile since they are messy, unorganized and incomplete, So let's start with the white room first

I made the sandboxes here;

Spoiler: Ayanokouji Kiyotaka

Ayanokouji Kiyotaka

vsbattles.fandom.com

Alterations for Ayanokouji;

• Added some resistences he should have
• Added "enhanced" In his accelerated development ability, As he was outperforming the white room's beta curriculum
• Added References (A ton of them lol)
• Organized his notable techniques
• Added a new optional equipment (Compound bow) which appeared in the new volume
• Remade the justifications to something better i believe
• Removed "Limited" for Power mimicry as it is straight up power mimicry
• Added notes to explain some parts
• Added the AP value he scales too
• Changed the keys name to "White room", "Prime", "Current" as the keys near his tier already specifies what is what
• Added Intelligence docs
• Added more pictures to the gallery
• Added back his wall level rating due to being massively stronger than all of the cast and the fact he hasn't given his all at all in the series so far

Spoiler: Shiro

Shiro (Classroom Of The Elite)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Alterations for Shiro;

• Added more abilities/resistences he should have
• Added notable techniques
• Added references
• Revamped his profile image
• Reworked his statistics
• Reworked his justifications
• Added 1 note
• Added Optional equipment
• Minor fixes

Spoiler: Yuki

Yuki (Classroom Of The Elite)

vsbattles.fandom.com

Alterations for Yuki;

• Added notable techniques
• Added references
• Revamped her profile image
• Reworked her statistics
• Reworked her justifications
• Added 1 note
• Added Optional equipment
• Minor fixes

Spoiler: Takuya Yagami

Takuya Yagami

vsbattles.fandom.com

Alterations for Takuya;

• Added notable techniques
• Added references
• Reworked his quote
• Added a feat list
• Added a manga version for his profile image
• Reworked his statistics
• Added more abilities/resistences he should have
• Reworked his justifications
• Added a gallery
• Minor fixes

Spoiler: Ichika

Ichika Amasawa

vsbattles.fandom.com

Alterations for Ichika;

• Added notable techniques
• Added more abilities/resistences she should have
• Added references
• Added gallery
• Added a optional equipment for her too
• Reworked her statistics
• Reworked her justifications
• Minor fixes

Spoiler: White Room Training

White Room Training

vsbattles.fandom.com

Alterations for White Room Training;

• Added references
• Reworked the justifications
• Minor fixes
• Added new abilities/resistences

-----------------------------------------//-------------------------------------------//-------------------------

Statistics part

Alright, so this calculation and this calculation was accepted. This will affect the scaling of many characters drastically.

Scaling chain:
later....

Lifting Strength:

Spoiler: KOUENJI AND AYANOKOUJI LS SCALES

In the Year 2 Island Exam, Ayanokouji and Kouenji did a game of tug-of-war. While Ayanokouji and Kouenji were evenly matched, Ayanokouji himself said that he was outclassed in the body weight, but he balanced it with his own physical strength. So, in terms of physical strength, it can be said that Ayanokouji Year 2 Island Exam > Kouenji (but only slightly), considering how Kouenji was getting equal to him due to his body weight. Scans here.

So, current Ayanokouji, who decided not too long after that he would train to get his original strength back, and Kouenji, should both be high tiers, not affecting the scaling chain much. Current Ayanokouji would still upscale from Kouenji.
TL;DR: Ayanokouji (2nd Year Island arc) > Kouenji (current) extreme diff

Spoiler: LS SCALES

As Ryuuen was able to perform the feat, but he surely looked troubled to perform it, Ryuuen would scale to the feat.
- Ryuuen Kakeru: Class 1 - 949.417429 kg (Threw structural metal beams to attack Ayanokouji)

949.417429 kg is very near to 1000 kg (about 0.949417429x), so people who seriously outclass Ryuuen can be Class 5. Also, Kouenji performed a feat of LS of 672.40399721 kg (as in the accepted calc) and swung a giant wild boar with no difficulty, so it further validates the strength as well.

• Ayanokouji Kiyotaka, Kouenji Rokusuke, Shiba Katsunori, Tsukishiro Tokinari, Shiro, Takuya Yagami, Housen Kazuomi, Albert Yamada: At least Class 5 - >>> 949.417429 kg (Massively superior to the likes of Ryuuen Kakeru)

• Sudou Ken is controversial for a "likely" rating, but he is mentioned to go to gym daily, meanwhile, Ryuuen doesn't do physical brawling everyday anymore, and Sudou is already said to be slightly superior to Ryuuen, so he should have a "possibly" rating: At least Class 1, possibly Class 5 - 949.417429 kg (Superior to Ryuuen Kakeru)

• Nagumo and Manabu also get a Likely class 5 rating as they are superior than Ryuuen

Spoiler: AP

Attack Potency:
Since the latest volume did have a statement of having Kouenji in high regard (even though Ayanokouji has done it many times, and this might as well be plot deception), no one comes up to the level of Kouenji right now, so both Ayanokouji and Kouenji will be the only ones to scale up to the feat performed by Kouenji for now, unless someone else also scales higher, that way, it will only make Kouenji come down since his superiority hasn't been proved with the great high tiers, but has only been narrated.

Ayanokouji Kiyotaka, Kouenji Rokusuke: At least Street level+, likely higher - >13.2318238 kJ

They both upscale as Kouenji performed the feat while being completely casual.

So i propose;

1 - Both Kouenji and Ayanokouji gets boosted to Baseline Wall level due to upscaling a casual feat with Kid Ayanokouji and Prime Ayanokouji upscaling from baseline wall level

2 - At least Street level+, likely wall level, With Kid Ayanokouji being wall level and prime Ayanokouji upscaling it

Spoiler: Speed

Speed:
Many characters would upscale Albert's feat, but they are already superhuman in speed due to Housen's feat, so Albert should have Superhuman speed, with both Manabu Horikita and Nagumo Miyabi having "At least Superhuman, likely higher" ratings due to statements prowess in the 1st Year Sports Festival.

Staff votes;

Staff agrees; DarkDragonMedeus

Staff disagrees;

Staff neutrals;

AP Proposals;

Proposal 1 -

Proposal 2 -

 

[RoggerReggor]

Agreed. Wonderful work.

Thanks for the help.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Agreed. Wonderful work.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I am neutral about the wall level ratings though.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I am neutral about the wall level ratings though.

They both upscale the feat though since it was done very casually

More over the feat is 13,2 KJ which is very close to 15 KJ

 

[RoggerReggor]

They both upscale the feat though since it was done very casually

More over the feat is 13,2 KJ which is very close to 15 KJ

Like the "likely Class 5" part, "likely Wall level" seems far better. "Likely" is when you have a calculated result and you think the character easily upscales from that.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Like the "likely Class 5" part, "likely Wall level" seems far better. "Likely" is when you have a calculated result and you think the character easily upscales from that.

They easily upscale though

 

[RoggerReggor]

They easily upscale though

You should put "likely" for that imo.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

You should put "likely" for that imo.

There's a proposal for that

But i prefer the 1st one since both of them upscale the feat easily

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good to me.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Looks good to me.

Thanks for the evaluation

But, May i ask what proposal for AP you think it's best?

 

[Amon.vl]

agree

 

[Vzearr]

Interesting...

Added the AP value he scales too
Added back his wall level rating due to being massively stronger than all of the cast and the fact he hasn't given his all at all in the series so far

Where does he get his 13.2 KJ rating from exactly?

Added more abilities/resistences he should have

. Resistence to Analytical prediction
- Just because you're superior to someone with a resistance to an ability does not mean you are also resistant to that ability. This also applies to him getting Analytical prediction.
. Enhanced Senses
- Literally any normal person can attack somebody without looking at them. Change the justification because it frankly doesn't fit the ability.

Added new abilities/resistences

Okay, this entire resistance to fear inducement stuff is blowing my mind. resisting a social influencing glare is not resistance to fear inducement its resistance to social influencing, like, what the hell?

I'd also like to add this entire ability is on the assumption that they "shouldn't" be affected by Ryueens glare. So I disagree with resistance to social influencing aswell.

. Weapon Mastery
- Just because you can use a weapon doesn't mean you have weapon mastery...
. Adaptation
Have you read the page for adaptation? Also, why are we using hyperboles to give characters abilities. No.

Ryuuen Kakeru: Class 1 - 949.417429 kg (Threw structural metal beams to attack Ayanokouji)

1. If its an anime only feat there is no reason to use it, I don't think the classroom of the elite anime is cannon to the light novel.
2. The link for the feat is broken, but you're saying the timeframe of him throwing it is the amount of time it would hypothetically take for the beams to fall? Just use the anime times for the timeframe, as thats not how it works, if you're doing it like that then you'd need to take the distance to the ground after he lets it go and not the distance he throws it.

Though, I'd like to see the feat. Could you link it?

949.417429 kg is very near to 1000 kg (about 0.949417429x), so people who seriously outclass Ryuuen can be Class 5. Also, Kouenji performed a feat of LS of 672.40399721 kg (as in the accepted calc) and swung a giant wild boar with no difficulty, so it further validates the strength as well.

• Ayanokouji Kiyotaka, Kouenji Rokusuke, Shiba Katsunori, Tsukishiro Tokinari, Shiro, Takuya Yagami, Housen Kazuomi, Albert Yamada: At least Class 5 - >>> 949.417429 kg (Massively superior to the likes of Ryuuen Kakeru)

• Sudou Ken is controversial for a "likely" rating, but he is mentioned to go to gym daily, meanwhile, Ryuuen doesn't do physical brawling everyday anymore, and Sudou is already said to be slightly superior to Ryuuen, so he should have a "possibly" rating: At least Class 1, possibly Class 5 - 949.417429 kg (Superior to Ryuuen Kakeru)

Okay, so, I've got a few problems with this.
1. If the metal calc does indeed go through, I'd be fine with it.
2. The boar calc that you're using is also based of the anime, so, I'm hesitant to use it as I don't believe the cote anime is necessarily cannon to the LN.

Attack Potency:
Since the latest volume did have a statement of having Kouenji in high regard (even though Ayanokouji has done it many times, and this might as well be plot deception), no one comes up to the level of Kouenji right now, so both Ayanokouji and Kouenji will be the only ones to scale up to the feat performed by Kouenji for now, unless someone else also scales higher, that way, it will only make Kouenji come down since his superiority hasn't been proved with the great high tiers, but has only been narrated.

Ayanokouji Kiyotaka, Kouenji Rokusuke: At least Street level+, likely higher - >13.2318238 kJ

They both upscale as Kouenji performed the feat while being completely casual.

So i propose;

1 - Both Kouenji and Ayanokouji gets boosted to Baseline Wall level due to upscaling a casual feat with Kid Ayanokouji and Prime Ayanokouji upscaling from baseline wall level

2 - At least Street level+, likely wall level, With KidAyanokouji being wall level and prime Ayanokouji upscaling it
[/SPOILER]

Where does Ayanokouji get his 13.2 KJ rating from exactly?

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Interesting...

Where does he get his 13.2 KJ rating from exactly?

Reggor's boar calc which was accepted

. Resistence to Analytical prediction
- Just because you're superior to someone with a resistance to an ability does not mean you are also resistant to that ability. This also applies to him getting Analytical prediction.

Except Koji is more skilled than Ichika and literally anything Ichika did was through WR training, Which Koji had a vastly superior training than Ichika, So i literally have no idea where you are getting with this

. Enhanced Senses
- Literally any normal person can attack somebody without looking at them. Change the justification because it frankly doesn't fit the ability.

Except Takuya was sneak attacked and literally could measure the distance between and Ibuki

Okay, this entire resistance to fear inducement stuff is blowing my mind. resisting a social influencing glare is not resistance to fear inducement its resistance to social influencing, like, what the hell?

I'd also like to add this entire ability is on the assumption that they "shouldn't" be affected by Ryueens glare. So I disagree with resistance to social influencing aswell.

It was accepted, So irrelevant

Also, The WR has statements of them training to not feel fear, Housen did not have this

Hence why they should resist Ryuuen

. Weapon Mastery
- Just because you can use a weapon doesn't mean you have weapon mastery...

I wouldn't expect you to know since you don't watch the LN soo...

But yeah, Ichika did not have any experience with bows nor Koji;

Ichika trained for 1 day with a bow before the exam, And she was stated to have high accuracy by Koji himself and even left the instructors suprised

Koji however, Had no experience with the bow either, He watched, Tutorial videos overnight and literally surpassed Ichika by 1 point

The maximum score was 60

Ichika scored 57 and Koji scored 58

1. If its an anime only feat there is no reason to use it, I don't think the classroom of the elite anime is cannon to the light novel.
2. The link for the feat is broken, but you're saying the timeframe of him throwing it is the amount of time it would hypothetically take for the beams to fall? Just use the anime times for the timeframe, as thats not how it works, if you're doing it like that then you'd need to take the distance to the ground after he lets it go and not the distance he throws it.

We have been using Anime, Manga and LN this whole time, Heck we have an accepted calc done by the manga which was the Koji knife feat

Even before you got here we used to have anime feats too but got taken down iirc

Though, I'd like to see the feat. Could you link it?

Go to Reggor's calc, It's there

Okay, so, I've got a few problems with this.
1. If the metal calc does indeed go through, I'd be fine with it.

It does because it was accepted

2. The boar calc that you're using is also based of the anime, so, I'm hesitant to use it as I don't believe the cote anime is necessarily cannon to the LN.

Again, We have been using anime, manga and LN this whole time, You are not gonna change this so give up

Where does Ayanokouji get his 13.2 KJ rating from exactly?

What i said in the beginning

 

[Vzearr]

Reggor's boar calc which was accepted

Could you link it please. In the OP too.

Except Koji is more skilled than Ichika and literally anything Ichika did was through WR training, Which Koji had a vastly superior training than Ichika, So i literally have no idea where you are getting with this

Being more skilled = having their abilities? That makes no sense.

Also I'm pretty sure that my original message was referring to another character.

Except Takuya was sneak attacked and literally could measure the distance between and Ibuki

Yes. The justification is trash, I wasn't disagreeing with the ability, was just asking for a better justification that makes sense so others don't get confused.

It was accepted, So irrelevant

I don't care, I'm contesting it. If you can't defend something that is accepted then it should be removed...

Also, The WR has statements of them training to not feel fear, Housen did not have this

Being trained to not feel fear doesn't necessarily mean you can't fear things. Not feeling fear to non-supernatural things is different to not feeling fear from supernatural things.

Hence why they should resist Ryuuen

Resist his social influencing, not his fear inducement because he doesn't have any!

I wouldn't expect you to know since you don't watch the LN soo...

I've actually picked it up thanks for asking.

But yeah, Ichika did not have any experience with bows nor Koji;

Ichika trained for 1 day with a bow before the exam, And she was stated to have high accuracy by Koji himself and even left the instructors suprised

Koji however, Had no experience with the bow either, He watched, Tutorial videos overnight and literally surpassed Ichika by 1 point

The maximum score was 60

Ichika scored 57 and Koji scored 58

None of this applies to Shiro or Yuki.

We have been using Anime, Manga and LN this whole time, Heck we have an accepted calc done by the manga which was the Koji knife feat

Doesn't matter, if its not cannon there is no reason to use it.

Go to Reggor's calc, It's there

The link is broken.

It does because it was accepted

Accepted doesn't mean it can be passed through profiles. If people debunk the calc then it can't be added to profiles.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Could you link it please. In the OP too.

Being more skilled = having their abilities? That makes no sense.

Also I'm pretty sure that my original message was referring to another character.

Yeah, I noticed you were talking about Takuya lol

Also, Both had the same training regime, There were no differences for both of them

Everything Ichika learned Takuya is better, Because it's outright stated that Takuya is better than her in everything

Yes. The justification is trash, I wasn't disagreeing with the ability, was just asking for a better justification that makes sense so others don't get confused.

Fair

I don't care, I'm contesting it. If you can't defend something that is accepted then it should be removed...

Your previous arguments were debunked by Reggor, Qawsed accepted fear inducement so like i said, It's accepted, Bring new arguments and not the previous ones

Being trained to not feel fear doesn't necessarily mean you can't fear things. Not feeling fear to non-supernatural things is different to not feeling fear from supernatural things.

It actually does, Because they would then be resistent to Ryuuen considering WR specifically trained for such cases

Resist his social influencing, not his fear inducement because he doesn't have any!

What i said above

I've actually picked it up thanks for asking.

Good, Are you on the Y2V11 then?

None of this applies to Shiro or Yuki.

If you mean the bow, Then yeah

However the baton, stun gun and knife do since the WR trained them

Doesn't matter, if its not cannon there is no reason to use it.

I will leave this to Reggor, I believe he said manga and anime have the author participating in it

The link is broken.

It works for me though

Kouenji lifts a wild boar + Albert runs super fast: Classroom of the Elite

vsbattles.fandom.com

Accepted doesn't mean it can be passed through profiles. If people debunk the calc then it can't be added to profiles.

Since i don't understand much with calcs, I will leave you with Reggor once he gets online

 

[Vzearr]

Yeah, the calc is wrong then.

Basically, you're adding the distance that the beams toppled to the distance he threw them. When you throw a ball you don't add the distance the ball keeps moving after it landed to how far you threw it. The calc also should use the amount of frames it took the beams to land (I counted about 11).

Yeah, I noticed you were talking about Takuya lol

Also, Both had the same training regime, There were no differences for both of them

Everything Ichika learned Takuya is better, Because it's outright stated that Takuya is better than her in everything

I guess so. But Suzune doesn't have analytical prediction so, resistance to it isn't valid.

Your previous arguments were debunked by Reggor, Qawsed accepted fear inducement so like i said, It's accepted, Bring new arguments and not the previous ones

When did he accept fear inducement. You cannot get resistence to fear inducement from resisting a social influencing stare!!!

You also can't get resistence to fear inducement from resisting natural fears!!!

It actually does, Because they would then be resistent to Ryuuen considering WR specifically trained for such cases

Ryueen doesn't have fear inducement, what are you talking about.

However the baton, stun gun and knife do since the WR trained them

Training with something doesn't mean you have mastery with it.

Kouenji lifts a wild boar + Albert runs super fast: Classroom of the Elite

vsbattles.fandom.com

Other then using the anime. Wouldn't the displacement be the distance from the boar to his back?

 

[TheHuntsman1001]

Agree overall, but I had a few things I would edit. Also I am new to this so lmk if the links to LN scans don't work or if there was a better way to do this.

Resistance to Analytical Prediction via the Tsukishiro Feat: I would use better justification. He notes exactly how Tsukishiro had been trying to read him but that he won't let him analyze his true thoughts/intentions. This should serve as better justification.
- Tsukishiro Analytical Prediction Countering

Intelligence: Add the implications of his Perfect Memory and what makes it different from ordinary "Photographic Memory" He has shown the ability subconsciously absorb information and recall any of it at will. This is different from just a photographic memory where he can retain images since his perfect memory isn't limited in that way.

Weaknesses: Perhaps the most important change that needs to be made, despite how he is portrayed in the Anime, Ayanokouji isn't emotionless. The most direct example of this is from the end of V0 where he admits that his father thinking he is emotionless is wrong. It was only an act to fool his father and the WR instructors to further his other goals. We also seem him having genuine conversations throughout the LN and mentioning how he understands that his existence is a contradiction where he wants to be defeated to prove the ideology of the WR wrong. He is shown multiple times that he is able to feel and understand normal human emotions, but he had worked to regulate them in order to survive the WR. - V0 Emotionless State is Fake
- Examples of Ayanokouji not being emotionless

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Yeah, the calc is wrong then.

Basically, you're adding the distance that the beams toppled to the distance he threw them. When you throw a ball you don't add the distance the ball keeps moving after it landed to how far you threw it. The calc also should use the amount of frames it took the beams to land (I counted about 11).

Doubt it, I will leave it to Reggor like i said

I guess so. But Suzune doesn't have analytical prediction so, resistance to it isn't valid.

She does, Here;

When did he accept fear inducement. You cannot get resistence to fear inducement from resisting a social influencing stare!!!

You also can't get resistence to fear inducement from resisting natural fears!!!

He did, The CRT was accepted for a reason

Ryueen doesn't have fear inducement, what are you talking about.

He does, It was on the previous CRT .-.

Training with something doesn't mean you have mastery with it.

Bro you can't be serious, They trained with them when they were 4 years to 9 years old (Yuki was 8 years old since she left)

Other then using the anime. Wouldn't the displacement be the distance from the boar to his back?

Reggor

 

[Vzearr]

She does, Here;

Its not on her profile.

He did, The CRT was accepted for a reason

Accepted doesn't always mean correct. I'm contesting its acceptance.

He does, It was on the previous CRT .-.

Where? Could you link it.

Bro you can't be serious, They trained with them when they were 4 years to 9 years old (Yuki was 8 years old since she left)

You can train in something and not have mastery over it. But whatever.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Its not on her profile.

Bad logic

We go by feats not what's accepted on the profile (At least when the feat is pretty clear)

Accepted doesn't always mean correct. I'm contesting its acceptance.

Like i said, Reggor debunked all your points, Bring new arguments

Where? Could you link it.

Classroom Of The Elite - Ayanokoji's abilities organization and additions CRT - Part 3

This will be for organizing Ayanokoji's abilities as there is alot of misunderstandings regarding his abilities This was made with the help of @RoggerReggor 1st Key; 2nd Key; 3rd Key; Staff votes; Ayanokoji Kiyotaka (Kid) Staff Agrees - DarkDragonMedeus, Qawsedf234 Staff Disagress...

vsbattles.com

You can train in something and not have mastery over it. But whatever.

I don't think you readed the LN after all

 

[Vzearr]

Bad logic

We go by feats not what's accepted on the profile (At least when the feat is pretty clear)

Just add it into the thread...

Like i said, Reggor debunked all your points, Bring new arguments

Classroom Of The Elite - Ayanokoji's abilities organization and additions CRT - Part 3

This will be for organizing Ayanokoji's abilities as there is alot of misunderstandings regarding his abilities This was made with the help of @RoggerReggor 1st Key; 2nd Key; 3rd Key; Staff votes; Ayanokoji Kiyotaka (Kid) Staff Agrees - DarkDragonMedeus, Qawsedf234 Staff Disagress...

vsbattles.com

This is more then likely staff misinterpreting the stare as a fear inducing stare (because why else would someone get resistance to fear hax from it) because there is no way in hell anyone would give someone resistance to fear inducement because they resisted social influencing.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Just add it into the thread...

No need, I am reworking the entire cote verse, I'm doing sandboxes

This is more then likely staff misinterpreting the stare as a fear inducing stare (because why else would someone get resistance to fear hax from it) because there is no way in hell anyone would give someone resistance to fear inducement because they resisted social influencing.

Or, Reggor gave convincing proof which it was the case

 

[Vzearr]

No need, I am reworking the entire cote verse, I'm doing sandboxes

Or, Reggor gave convincing proof which it was the case

I'll go through this again with Reggor then. Whenever he returns to the thread.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

I'll go through this again with Reggor then. Whenever he returns to the thread.

Kay

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Agree overall, but I had a few things I would edit. Also I am new to this so lmk if the links to LN scans don't work or if there was a better way to do this.

Resistance to Analytical Prediction via the Tsukishiro Feat: I would use better justification. He notes exactly how Tsukishiro had been trying to read him but that he won't let him analyze his true thoughts/intentions. This should serve as better justification.
- Tsukishiro Analytical Prediction Countering

Intelligence: Add the implications of his Perfect Memory and what makes it different from ordinary "Photographic Memory" He has shown the ability subconsciously absorb information and recall any of it at will. This is different from just a photographic memory where he can retain images since his perfect memory isn't limited in that way.

Weaknesses: Perhaps the most important change that needs to be made, despite how he is portrayed in the Anime, Ayanokouji isn't emotionless. The most direct example of this is from the end of V0 where he admits that his father thinking he is emotionless is wrong. It was only an act to fool his father and the WR instructors to further his other goals. We also seem him having genuine conversations throughout the LN and mentioning how he understands that his existence is a contradiction where he wants to be defeated to prove the ideology of the WR wrong. He is shown multiple times that he is able to feel and understand normal human emotions, but he had worked to regulate them in order to survive the WR. - V0 Emotionless State is Fake
- Examples of Ayanokouji not being emotionless

So i just remove his current weakness? And just leave the heat weakness?

 

[RoggerReggor]

Agree overall, but I had a few things I would edit. Also I am new to this so lmk if the links to LN scans don't work or if there was a better way to do this.

Resistance to Analytical Prediction via the Tsukishiro Feat: I would use better justification. He notes exactly how Tsukishiro had been trying to read him but that he won't let him analyze his true thoughts/intentions. This should serve as better justification.
- Tsukishiro Analytical Prediction Countering

Intelligence: Add the implications of his Perfect Memory and what makes it different from ordinary "Photographic Memory" He has shown the ability subconsciously absorb information and recall any of it at will. This is different from just a photographic memory where he can retain images since his perfect memory isn't limited in that way.

Weaknesses: Perhaps the most important change that needs to be made, despite how he is portrayed in the Anime, Ayanokouji isn't emotionless. The most direct example of this is from the end of V0 where he admits that his father thinking he is emotionless is wrong. It was only an act to fool his father and the WR instructors to further his other goals. We also seem him having genuine conversations throughout the LN and mentioning how he understands that his existence is a contradiction where he wants to be defeated to prove the ideology of the WR wrong. He is shown multiple times that he is able to feel and understand normal human emotions, but he had worked to regulate them in order to survive the WR. - V0 Emotionless State is Fake
- Examples of Ayanokouji not being emotionless

Thanks Huntsman for the help! I am planning to do an entire Analytical Prediction thread later on. This will surely help.

 

[RoggerReggor]

@Vzearr About using anime, let me tell you that the anime is completely good to use, unless they directly contradict a feat from the light novel. Anime basically adds more story to some scenes, which makes it better instead of making human assumptions, even adding a few feats here and there.

There are many examples of this. For example, consider the preview of episode 5 from Season 2, there we get revealed to how Kouenji trained in the Amazon forests and in martial arts in China, even defeating the best from the country. Now, this information hasn't been revealed ever in the light novel. In the Year 1 manga island arc, another feat of Kouenji's very good camping is shown, he was able to search for a whole corn field by using his camping knowledge. In the latest volumes, he mentioned about having connection with Mei (a Chinese transfer student), and even referring to China as a familiar place. In the anime, we see Kouenji's entire fight with a wild boar, where Kouenji is shown to be able to even swing it around with no difficulties at all. Ryuuen's fight is also mentioned more psychologically in the light novel (read Volume 7 from Year 1 arc, you will know), and its physical attacks, if counted, would be way more in the anime. Though anime skips a lot of stuff, it actually does try to make hype moments much better, like Ryuuen's fight, sports festival strategy, Y1 island arc plans, etc. It's clear that the author is directly involved in making of the anime, as he also tries to put the story in the light novel in accordance with the information revealed in parts of the anime.

 

[RoggerReggor]

I'll go through this again with Reggor then. Whenever he returns to the thread.

Again, if you are talking about Resistance to Fear Inducement part, it is already in accordance with what staff accepts. For example, consider resistance to pain, it is when you don't feel pain at all. Not feeling any pain gives resistance to an ability such as pain manipulation, which if we went by your logics, the person should feel pain because they only naturally feel pain while the ability works supernaturally, which is poorly thought out imo. It's saying as if the pain manipulator works beyond the principle of pain while still inflicting pain itself. The same is the thing with Ayanokouji, he is said to not feel fear at all, and from the almost a decade the novel is out, this guy actually hasn't felt fear on the serious scale (while he does joke about pissing his pants, but come on, it's still in a high school setting and jokes like that are common) and has been pretty cool since the novel's existence.

 

[Vzearr]

@Vzearr About using anime, let me tell you that the anime is completely good to use, unless they directly contradict a feat from the light novel. Anime basically adds more story to some scenes, which makes it better instead of making human assumptions, even adding a few feats here and there.

There are many examples of this. For example, consider the preview of episode 5 from Season 2, there we get revealed to how Kouenji trained in the Amazon forests and in martial arts in China, even defeating the best from the country. Now, this information hasn't been revealed ever in the light novel. In the Year 1 manga island arc, another feat of Kouenji's very good camping is shown, he was able to search for a whole corn field by using his camping knowledge. In the latest volumes, he mentioned about having connection with Mei (a Chinese transfer student), and even referring to China as a familiar place. In the anime, we see Kouenji's entire fight with a wild boar, where Kouenji is shown to be able to even swing it around with no difficulties at all. Ryuuen's fight is also mentioned more psychologically in the light novel (read Volume 7 from Year 1 arc, you will know), and its physical attacks, if counted, would be way more in the anime. Though anime skips a lot of stuff, it actually does try to make hype moments much better, like Ryuuen's fight, sports festival strategy, Y1 island arc plans, etc. It's clear that the author is directly involved in making of the anime, as he also tries to put the story in the light novel in accordance with the information revealed in parts of the anime.

This is extremely lackluster proof, hell, I don't think its really even proof at all.

Again, if you are talking about Resistance to Fear Inducement part, it is already in accordance with what staff accepts. For example, consider resistance to pain, it is when you don't feel pain at all. Not feeling any pain gives resistance to an ability such as pain manipulation, which if we went by your logics, the person should feel pain because they only naturally feel pain while the ability works supernaturally, which is poorly thought out imo. It's saying as if the pain manipulator works beyond the principle of pain while still inflicting pain itself. The same is the thing with Ayanokouji, he is said to not feel fear at all, and from the almost a decade the novel is out, this guy actually hasn't felt fear on the serious scale (while he does joke about pissing his pants, but come on, it's still in a high school setting and jokes like that are common) and has been pretty cool since the novel's existence.

Resistance to pain and resistance to fear inducement are two completely different things and don't match up. Not feeling fear doesn't matter when you've never went against someone who has supernatural fear hax, Ayanokouji has only not felt fear from natural things in the world, not supernatural things therefore you can't assume he's capable of resisting supernatural fear hax.

This also doesn't answer why characters are getting resistance to fear hax from resisting a social influencing stare.

 

[RoggerReggor]

This is extremely lackluster proof, hell, I don't think its really even proof at all.

What counts as a proof in your opinion?

Resistance to pain and resistance to fear inducement are two completely different things and don't match up. Not feeling fear doesn't matter when you've never went against someone who has supernatural fear hax, Ayanokouji has only not felt fear from natural things in the world, not supernatural things therefore you can't assume he's capable of resisting supernatural fear hax.

This also doesn't answer why characters are getting resistance to fear hax from resisting a social influencing stare.

Again, they aren't. Both fear and pain arise due to neurotransmission, pain is much like due to both psychological and physical damages, while fear is due to psychological perceptions. Of course, it is put as "limited" in case of Ayanokouji, he of course wouldn't be able to resist direct brain-neuron manipulations but only psychological perceptions.

Also, I can agree with the fact that Ryuuen doesn't need to use his stare against Ayanokouji, considering how he himself never used his own hax against Ryuuen and hides it most of the time, unless he has no way out at all.

 

[Vzearr]

Again, they aren't. Both fear and pain arise due to neurotransmission, pain is much like due to both psychological and physical damages, while fear is due to psychological perceptions. Of course, it is put as "limited" in case of Ayanokouji, he of course wouldn't be able to resist direct brain-neuron manipulations but only psychological perceptions.

They're still 2 completely different things lol, you know what else involves neurotransmission? Sleep, happiness, sadness, appetite, motor control ect. Them both being neurotransmission doesn't connect them in the way you're trying to connect pain's psychological value to fear inducements psychological value.

You can't have a confirmed resistance to something you haven't experienced. In this case, it's supernatural fear hax. The same applies for resistance to pain, you can't have it without experiencing something painful to know you're resistant to it.

Also, I can agree with the fact that Ryuuen doesn't need to use his stare against Ayanokouji, considering how he himself never used his own hax against Ryuuen and hides it most of the time, unless he has no way out at all.

Ryueen has no hax, its social influencing. Where did we get that he had fear hax from?!

 

[RoggerReggor]

They're still 2 completely different things lol, you know what else involves neurotransmission? Sleep, happiness, sadness, appetite, motor control ect. Them both being neurotransmission doesn't connect them in the way you're trying to connect pain's psychological value to fear inducements psychological value.

You can't have a confirmed resistance to something you haven't experienced. In this case, it's supernatural fear hax. The same applies for resistance to pain, you can't have it without experiencing something painful to know you're resistant to it.

Again, I am in no way trying to connect pain with fear. If you think taking neurotransmission as a context connects them, then literally every process in the body arises due to that. So, stop misinterpreting me. I basically said that resistance to pain is more of a problem arising due to neurotransmission, but that still doesn't make a person resistant to the psychological pain, like that, Ayanokouji is resistant to psychologically induced fear, such as characters who can cause imagery and things which people easily get scared of. An example of this would be one of the uses of Baki Hanma's hax, where he can create visualizations of a beast in people's mind which induces fear in them, so Ayanokouji would resist this as it comes under a psychological perception, but if there is a hax which directly manipulates the emotions, then he wouldn't be. That's the difference.

About your second line, learn what a statement is. Either way, even if you are an anime-only, you know that Tsukishiro can and does perceive Ayanokouji's darkness. In the fear inducement thread, I mentioned how his ability is active, and doesn't work passively, so yes, unless he actively uses it to do it, there's no way it actually happens. The only person I believe has been able to resist Ayanokouji is Nagumo, and even Ayanokouji was shocked about how he did it.

Ryueen has no hax, its social influencing. Where did we get that he had fear hax from?!

He induced fear in a literal Housen, now don't try to classify it as social influencing. Social influencing is a very minor ability which can be easily resisted (you don't even need resistance to resist social influencing). Housen is massively superior to Ryuuen, in fact, he was winning even when he was induced with fear, it just seems illogical to think that Housen would feel fear out of nowhere. Either way, yeah, Ryuuen has in fact used his social influencing to indirectly manipulate his class as well, but there's no connections between them.

 

[Vzearr]

Again, I am in no way trying to connect pain with fear.

So what the hell is the point of bringing up pain.

I basically said that resistance to pain is more of a problem arising due to neurotransmission, but that still doesn't make a person resistant to the psychological pain, like that, Ayanokouji is resistant to psychologically induced fear, such as characters who can cause imagery and things which people easily get scared of. An example of this would be one of the uses of Baki Hanma's hax, where he can create visualizations of a beast in people's mind which induces fear in them, so Ayanokouji would resist this as it comes under a psychological perception, but if there is a hax which directly manipulates the emotions, then he wouldn't be. That's the difference.

This literally has nothing to do with the fact that Ayanokouji has never experienced supernatural hax, everything you're saying is on the basis of possibility.

About your second line, learn what a statement is. Either way, even if you are an anime-only, you know that Tsukishiro can and does perceive Ayanokouji's darkness. In the fear inducement thread, I mentioned how his ability is active, and doesn't work passively, so yes, unless he actively uses it to do it, there's no way it actually happens. The only person I believe has been able to resist Ayanokouji is Nagumo, and even Ayanokouji was shocked about how he did it.

What does this have to do with my point?

He induced fear in a literal Housen, now don't try to classify it as social influencing. Social influencing is a very minor ability which can be easily resisted (you don't even need resistance to resist social influencing). Housen is massively superior to Ryuuen, in fact, he was winning even when he was induced with fear, it just seems illogical to think that Housen would feel fear out of nowhere.

Again, I don't know how this is related to the point. Can you also link the scans for these.

Either way, yeah, Ryuuen has in fact used his social influencing to indirectly manipulate his class as well, but there's no connections between them.

Still no clue how this = resistance to fear hax when Ryueen doesn't have fear hax.

 

[RoggerReggor]

So what the hell is the point of bringing up pain.

Bad at connecting dots? I literally never said he has resistance to pain or anything in my POV. I am just saying that generally not feeling a "thing" through some means just gives limited resistance to a manipulator of that "thing" through the same means.

This literally has nothing to do with the fact that Ayanokouji has never experienced supernatural hax, everything you're saying is on the basis of possibility.

"Learn what a statement is."

If you looked at the scan again, it says that White Room tried to give perceived perceptions of almost everything and tried to push them to the edges of fear in that sense. Supernatural hax would apply when it just manipulates the brain and stuff on a physiological level, which isn't included in his resistance. But again, if a character induces fear with making another character perceive something fearful, then it is just idiotic to think that it will work, considering how the said character doesn't feel fear from the made-to-perceive perception in the first place.

Let me give you an extremely understandable example. This is the same as saying that I have an ability which is supernatural to make your tongue go sour and make you uncomfortable with it, but on the other hand, you ate sour things all your life and developed a resistance to sour taste, so in that way, even if I make your tongue go sour, it will most definitely not make you uncomfortable or whatever my intention regarding it was. Saying that you will still feel uncomfortable because you never resisted anything supernatural is dumb. It is just coping with a "you cannot resist something supernatural after developing a resistance to something extremely similar naturally because you never resisted the supernatural ability in the first place" argument over and over again, which is logically bad.

What does this have to do with my point?

It's literally an example of a resisted perceived inducement. I don't know if you are asking for a scan though, I can send it if you want.

Again, I don't know how this is related to the point. Can you also link the scans for these.

It is literally in the profiles Zetsu made as an OP.



Now, look at the scan, the dude was beating him up while literally making him go on the verge of unconsciousness, and he still sent a killing glare which disoriented him. I don't know if you are going to ask the author to have him prove this as supernatural even when this isn't a bit natural in the first place.

Still no clue how this = resistance to fear hax when Ryueen doesn't have fear hax.

As much as I know you from past threads, you would probably have tried to nullify all his other actual social influencing feats with the pretense of them being supernatural, so yes, I just added it to validate your point of Ryuuen being an actual social influencer while doing what I mentioned above.

 

[RoggerReggor]

This crap becomes even more unbelievable when you look at the official scans for the same feat.

 

[Vzearr]

Bad at connecting dots? I literally never said he has resistance to pain or anything in my POV. I am just saying that generally not feeling a "thing" through some means just gives limited resistance to a manipulator of that "thing" through the same means.

I never stated you did say that lol, you were comparing resistance to pain to resistance to fear inducement.

If you looked at the scan again, it says that White Room tried to give perceived perceptions of almost everything and tried to push them to the edges of fear in that sense. Supernatural hax would apply when it just manipulates the brain and stuff on a physiological level, which isn't included in his resistance. But again, if a character induces fear with making another character perceive something fearful, then it is just idiotic to think that it will work, considering how the said character doesn't feel fear from the made-to-perceive perception in the first place.

Dude, the entire criteria for fear hax is that is has to be supernatural. You've misunderstood what fear inducement is.

Let me give you an extremely understandable example. This is the same as saying that I have an ability which is supernatural to make your tongue go sour and make you uncomfortable with it, but on the other hand, you ate sour things all your life and developed a resistance to sour taste, so in that way, even if I make your tongue go sour, it will most definitely not make you uncomfortable or whatever my intention regarding it was. Saying that you will still feel uncomfortable because you never resisted anything supernatural is dumb. It is just coping with a "you cannot resist something supernatural after developing a resistance to something extremely similar naturally because you never resisted the supernatural ability in the first place" argument over and over again, which is logically bad.

The difference here would be that the sour you make my tongue would be supernatural and not attainable via natural means, therefore, if I build a resistance to natural sour things I wouldn't necessarily be resistant to your supernatural sour ability. It's quite simple. Just because you're resistant to natural things doesn't mean you're resistant to the same things expect with supernatural enhancements.

It's literally an example of a resisted perceived inducement. I don't know if you are asking for a scan though, I can send it if you want.

Okay? Were those stares fear hax? If not they're irrelevant.

Now, look at the scan, the dude was beating him up while literally making him go on the verge of unconsciousness, and he still sent a killing glare which disoriented him. I don't know if you are going to ask the author to have him prove this as supernatural even when this isn't a bit natural in the first place.

1. This isn't accepted as fear inducement, so I have no clue why you're trying to use this as justification for resistance to fear hax.
2. He literally escaped it immediately, which gives off social influencing vibes. Quoting the social influencing page. "It's escapable through simple willpower or confidence"

 

[RoggerReggor]

I never stated you did say that lol, you were comparing resistance to pain to resistance to fear inducement.

I am not comparing them bruh. I am literally just using both to elucidate via examples.

Dude, the entire criteria for fear hax is that is has to be supernatural. You've misunderstood what fear inducement is.

The difference here would be that the sour you make my tongue would be supernatural and not attainable via natural means, therefore, if I build a resistance to natural sour things I wouldn't necessarily be resistant to your supernatural sour ability. It's quite simple. Just because you're resistant to natural things doesn't mean you're resistant to the same things expect with supernatural enhancements.

That isn't like that, you don't feel sour taste in the first place. You letting me feel it would literally just come under the thing of manipulation of neurotransmission.

And I am quite skeptical about you trying to classify something as fear into separate categories, like one being fear or the other being "supernatural fear".

Okay? Were those stares fear hax? If not they're irrelevant.

1. This isn't accepted as fear inducement, so I have no clue why you're trying to use this as justification for resistance to fear hax.
2. He literally escaped it immediately, which gives off social influencing vibes. Quoting the social influencing page. "It's escapable through simple willpower or confidence"

He didn't escape. He just met his eyes for a small amount of time and that caused him to have disoriented, then Ryuuen even attacked him, although his kick missed him and he couldn't give a good shot, it did get Housen frustrated.

 

[RoggerReggor]

Either way, I am not going to argue about fear resistances, considering how you made an argument of there being existence of "supernatural fear". which even though I don't know how becomes different in against normal fears (like if it is more severe on a higher degree, or becomes irresistible by just training your own willpower according to you), I feel like it would be just waste of time for both of us if the back and forth was continued. Let's just wait for a knowledgeable staff to give their verdict on the context of there being an existence of something like supernatural fear.

Also, Ayanokouji does have supernatural willpower, for being able to resist depression and pain caused in the White Room, so he does have enough willpower and courage to actually resist fear hax anyways.

 

[Vzearr]

That isn't like that, you don't feel sour taste in the first place. You letting me feel it would literally just come under the thing of manipulation of neurotransmission.

*You don't feel sour taste from natural things. It doesn't apply to supernatural things.

And I am quite skeptical about you trying to classify something as fear into separate categories, like one being fear or the other being "supernatural fear".

That's how its works, otherwise social influencing and fear manipulation would be the same ability.

He didn't escape. He just met his eyes for a small amount of time and that caused him to have disoriented

Which he then snapped out of.

Let's just wait for a knowledgeable staff to give their verdict on the context of there being an existence of something like supernatural fear.

It's literally stated to be a thing on the fear manipulation page though...

Also, Ayanokouji does have supernatural willpower, for being able to resist depression and pain caused in the White Room, so he does have enough willpower and courage to actually resist fear hax anyways.

Having supernatural willpower doesn't necessarily mean you can resist fear manipulation.