Awarding Boruto Many Success Achievements Via Shippuden Achievements Of Success

[Deceived3596]

Also him being injured by the Rasenshuriken is not relevant here as it is senjutsu and senjutsu is the weakness of the Juubi Jins.

I don't believe Senjutsu is a weakness in the sense you're trying to argue.

While Juubi Jins are weak against Senjutsu based attacks they don't take enhanced damage from it, so scaling people to damaging Juubi Jins with Senjutsu enhanced attacks is completely fine.

Senjutsu just allows people to bypass the inherent invulnerability that Juubi Jins have against Ninjutsu, this is backed up again by Naruto and Sasuke.

(Note - i could be wrong since i'm not that knowledgeable on Naruto so if Slayer or someone like him could either agree with what i'm saying or debunk it that'll be great)

 

[KingTempest]

I don't believe Senjutsu is a weakness in the sense you're trying to argue.

While Juubi Jins are weak against Senjutsu based attacks they don't take enhanced damage from it, so scaling people to damaging Juubi Jins with Senjutsu enhanced attacks is completely fine.

Senjutsu just allows people to bypass the inherent invulnerability that Juubi Jins have against Ninjutsu, this is backed up again by Naruto and Sasuke.

(Note - i could be wrong since i'm not that knowledgeable on Naruto so if Slayer or someone like him could either agree with what i'm saying or debunk it that'll be great)

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Madara confirms that he had not fully regenerated yet. He says "No, has his power suddenly increased?", he denies that this is the reason for being pressured, but still confirms that he is weakened, and he asks himself a question, not a confirmation, he is confused about the real reason why this is happening, and that doesn't change anything, as he himself confirms that he is weakened. Basically, Naruto Rikudō without Kurama's cape is able to physically pressure Madara 1 Rinnegan without Shinjuu weakened, but Madara 100% is another story. Also him being injured by the Rasenshuriken is not relevant here as it is senjutsu and senjutsu is the weakness of the Juubi Jins.

Exactly, that's what I was gonna say, and to add to this (again), this is what Madara looked like when Naruto arrived

Does that seem like Full Powered Madara like the one who fought guy to anyone? cause to me he obviously doesn't.

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Man fr tried to be disingenuous with a partial scan

Wallah I'm done, this has gotten stupid

 

[BlackeJan]

Have y'all figured something out yet?

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Dishonesty at it’s peak

Madara asked a question and then his next statement said “no, that’s not it, he got stronger”

Why didn’t you send that part?
Why crop it out to fit your misguided narrative?

Yeah can we not clip context please, no rat behavior needed here

Man fr tried to be disingenuous with a partial scan

Wallah I'm done, this has gotten stupid

y'all are so funny ngl, I didn't clip context shit, Naruto getting stronger from BSM has nothing to do with my notion that's why I didn't bring it up, and it doesn't deny the fact that Madara was weekend at this time, as I and GTsek asserted.

 

[ssgengar]

y'all are so funny ngl, I didn't clip context shit, Naruto getting stronger from BSM has nothing to do with my notion that's why I didn't bring it up, and it doesn't deny the fact that Madara was weekend at this time, as I and GTsek asserted.

If it means nothing why even crop it..

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

If it means nothing why even crop it..

duh
wdym ? I use scans that are related to the topic I proposing, like I don't need to provide whole pages every time I want to show something, what I wanted from the page is Madara's statement about his recovery, so I cropped it off the page, and that applies literally to everything and everyone, literally the other scan of Madara stating he's almost killed also cropped yet nobody talked about it.

 

[ssgengar]

duh
wdym ? I use scans that are related to the topic I proposing, like I don't need to provide whole pages every time I want to show something, what I wanted from the page is Madara's statement about his recovery, so I cropped it off the page, and that applies literally to everything and everyone, literally the other scan of Madara stating he's almost killed also cropped yet nobody talked about it.

You can do that without cropping? Going the extra step to remove certain information from the evidence you’re trying to provide is weird. Just show full context

And no one said you had to provide a bunch of pages, just full scans which shouldn’t be asking a lot..? Cmon man

 

[Tomboy11]

this is just blatantly false, why she should even care about Momoshiki, even assuming he's stronger, she stopped supplying the whole clan, to her even if she beat up Momoshiki somehow, that doesn't solve the problem at all, the clan still sees her as a traitor, that's what the narrative implies and the logical conclusion to the events, however, I'm not pushing for anything here, cause my approaches is to conclude that Kaguya > Momoshiki, and if I will go from this claim, I will need to use other evidence to back up the notion, which I have a shit ton of them, but this will just turn the thread to Naruto Shippuden vs Boruto power scale and will drive from the original topic.

Are scrolls literally say she was afraid of the pair
Are there only 2 people in the otusuki clan ?

 

[Tomboy11]

Exactly, that's what I was gonna say, and to add to this (again), this is what Madara looked like when Naruto arrived

Does that seem like Full Powered Madara like the one who fought guy to anyone? cause to me he obviously doesn't.

Doesn't madara say in the next panel that it is not about his Ingures but Naruto is Just that strong , I don't get your notion my guy

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Doesn't madara say in the next panel that it is not about his Ingures but Naruto is Just that strong ,

Yes he does

 

[Tomboy11]

The only one that has a multiplier through and through is Choji's Butterfly Mode and the first gate...and other non canon characters.

Gates is also like a 10x multiplier I think

 

[BlastX]

Gates is also like a 10x multiplier I think

Nope, it's 5x

 

[AnimesFreak2]

Nope, it's 5x

That was just the 1st gate no?

 

[Tomboy11]

Nope, it's 5x

Oh I thought 10 or am I thinking of 8 gates

Or was gates a 100x multiplier

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

So ive read the entire thread and its very interesting, but what happens to Shojoji, i havent noticed him get mentioned yet.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

You can do that without cropping? Going the extra step to remove certain information from the evidence you’re trying to provide is weird. Just show full context

And no one said you had to provide a bunch of pages, just full scans which shouldn’t be asking a lot..? Cmon man

tf dude, it literally has nothing to do with my argument, why should I include it? and literally, it's not just me or even this is my first time doing this, but the way you all drive from refuting my and GTsek's claims and start this ad hominem party but guess what, irdc about what y'all think, I myself declare rn that there was no intention to cherry picking anything there, so case closed. also this whole topic is so lame tbh, I will stop wasting my time on responding on any of you regarding this topic.

 

[UltimatePharaoh]

Doesn't madara say in the next panel that it is not about his Ingures but Naruto is Just that strong , I don't get your notion my guy

as GTsek said, he denies that this is the reason for being pressured, but still confirms that he is weakened, Naruto is irrelevant here, my notion is that Madara was weakened and this is a fact.

 

[ssgengar]

tf dude, it literally has nothing to do with my argument, why should I include it? and literally, it's not just me or even this is my first time doing this, but the way you all drive from refuting my and GTsek's claims and start this ad hominem party but guess what, irdc about what y'all think, I myself declare rn that there was no intention to cherry picking anything there, so case closed. also this whole topic is so lame tbh, I will stop wasting my time on responding on any of you regarding this topic.

That’s fine, I’m not trying to assume what intentions you have. But don’t act like us asking for full context is too much, especially when you went out of your way to remove it. because if it really added nothing then you could’ve left it no problem

Whether or not you think it adds to your point, doesn’t mean you can only provide limited context to support your argument. I’m just saying in the future to try not to crop scans, no accusations or anything like that. So let’s just move on before we derail any further

 

[BlastX]

Oh I thought 10 or am I thinking of 8 gates

Or was gates a 100x multiplier

It's only 5x and all the others are not stated as far as I'm aware.

The x100 is actually that 8 gates Guy is x100 stronger than the 5 Kages, which is simultaneously immensely higher and immensely lower (he's x100 all 5 Kages combined...and yet that's immensely lower considering his performance against Juubidara).

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Aight guys, finally getting to my proposed changes/compromises/etc.

Hag and Ham
These guys stay the same nothing is wrong with them.
78.2 ZT for them both

Madara
I'm still convinced he should be where I initially proposed him to be. The reasoning here very much still holds:

Spoiler: Gah

Madara​

The imgur explains the reasoning behind my premise, but to put it simply, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara (the strongest we see him get) scales to Hagoromo through this scaling chain:

One Rinnegan Juubidara = close to Hagoromo < Shinju-Absorbed Juubidara < Dual Rinnegan Juubidara ~ Hagoromo = 5-B

Via pure power scaling, specifically the bolded portion, it should be abundantly clear that Juubidara at his peak should be scaling relative to Hagoromo. Doubly so when you consider Juubidara got beyond a “one shot” level amp from single Rinnegan to two Rinnegan (went from being obliterated by SPSM Naruto’s Rasenshuriken with one eye to being able to fight both SPSM KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke simultaneously). Juubidara being close to Hagoromo’s power and then receiving a beyond “one shot” level amp should be enough evidence alone to scale peak Juubidara to Hagoromo.

Furthermore, the narrative around Juubidara’s ever increasing power is that he wants to obtain a power similar to that of Kaguya. We see this brought to the forefront as Juubidara gets betrayed and defeated by his own hubris (manifested in the form of Madara believing Black Zetsu is his will alone and that he cannot be used like he used Obito). Then Naruto flashes back to Hagoromo claiming Madara is nearing his own power, to Hagoromo claiming that Madara wants to get Kaguya’s power but that Kaguya’s power gives rise to self-destruction through hubris. This is what literally happens, Madara obtains Hagoromo’s power and when he tries to go further and obtain Kaguya’s power, he is undone by the rise of his own hubris. The narrative of Madara’s rise to power is that he climbs to the Sage of Six Paths level only to be overwhelmed and consumed in pursuit of Kaguya’s power.

But wait, there’s more! The databooks themselves directly state that when Juubidara got both eyes he unleashed the true power of the Six Paths, which heavily implies and all but directly confirms that Dual Rinnegan Juubidara reached Hagoromo’s power level. Six Paths refers to Hagoromo inherently, as Hagoromo is the Sage of Six Paths, and the namesake of those famous powers as known by the ninja world. Thus, awakening the true power of the Six Paths would inherently refer to unleashing the actual power of Hagoromo. Again this adds just further layers of consistency to Madara being this strong.

Additionally, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara casually spreads the God Tree roots around the world with his own energy. This feat is calculated to Small Planetary as a lowball. This feat serves as a solid supporting feat to the scaling I’m proposing for Madara. The preponderance of evidence for Madara scaling to Hagoromo is ever-so-increasing.

Finally, to touch upon Juubidara with a single Rinnegan. Hagaromo states he's getting close to himself in power, if Madara is nearing Hagaromo in power that would imply he's closer to Hagoromo in power than he is further from Hagoromo in power. This would mean One Rinnegan Juubidara should be over half way to Hagoromo's power. As consequence of this Night Guy would scale as well, since he was breaking Madara's body.

To conclude everything I’ve brought up, via powerscaling, narrative intent, and statements, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara is put on the same level of power as Hagoromo. One Rinnegan Juubidara scales above a power that rivals Hagoromo and is getting close to Hagoromo himself, and upon receiving multiple huge amps awakens to Dual Rinnegan Juubidara, unleashing power on par with Hagoromo, until eventually in attempts of pursuing a power beyond Hagoromo he falls to his own hubris. Therefore, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara should scale to Hagoromo. As far as quantifying weaker forms of Juubidara, I’m neutral on that and am open to suggestions.

Particularly the bolded portions are what has me sold on Juubidara's scaling. With 1 Rinnegan he's implied to be closer to Hag in power than he is far from Hag in power (implying a half relativity), and then he unleashes the true power of the Six Paths (Hag) with both eyes. It's extremely consistent with the narrative and multitude of statements. Furthermore, Naruto and Sasuke cannot serve as limiters as they didn't just receive half of Ghost Hag's chakra but they received new transformations and eyes as well. The halves of Hag's chakra meshed with Naruto and Sasuke's own chakra elevating to new heights.
39.1 ZT for 1 Rinnegan, 78.2 ZT for 2 Rinnegan

Guy
He gives 1 eyed Madara the hands with the 8 gates, his proposed scaling is the same.
39.1 ZT for Night Guy

Kaguya
Her scaling isn't controversial, it's simple, and it remains the same.
78.2 ZT for her

Naruto and Sasuke
I touched on them a little bit in Madara's section, but they just scale to Madara. Again, them receiving Hag's power on top of their own power and evolving into new forms does not limit them to just Hag's power.
78.2 ZT for them

Toneri
Personally I think "At least Low 5-B+, possibly 5-B" for his TCM for the same reasons I mentioned in the OP is best for him.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Naruto the Last
He just scales to TCM Toneri with his BSM, nothing complicated.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Sasuke the Last
Sasuke with Six Paths powers should scale above BSM Naruto, and I think it's stated he's Kakashi's best pupil or sumn like that during this era (it's deep in this thread). Furthermore, he should simply scale at least to his teen self as he has had more time to acclimate to his powers and he hasn't been stagnate in his worldly travels.
78.2 ZT for Sussy

Sasuke the Burrito
This is where a lot of the change comes from and where I think a lot of the dissenters will be pacified. I'm going to propose that Adult Sasuke simply scales to/above his teenage self, and keep his scaling to Kinshiki, rather than deal with the mental battles of scaling him to Fused Momo. Him and Kinshiki are able to consistently match each other anyway, and the manga portrays Fused Momo as slightly stronger than Sasuke. I think this will solve a lot of the "issues" he brings downscaling other characters to him. I then think no Rinnegan Sasuke should just downscale to baseline, as he's still a threat to some of the Boruto God Tiers. Also, Sasuke only fights Kinshiki with his base Sharingan + tomoe Rinnegan, meanwhile in the anime he matches fused Momo with his EMS + tomoe Rinnegan, so that form will scale to Fused Momo, and then a likely rating to Naruto based on statements that imply equality.
59.44 ZT ~ no Rinnegan Sasuke < no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke < Rinnegan with tomoe Sasuke >= 78.2 ZT < EMS + Rinnegan with tomoe Sasuke ~ 156.4 ZT, likely 312.8 ZT

Sakura and Shin
I urge you to read this post as it words it better than I ever could: https://vsbattles.com/threads/award...vements-of-success.140047/page-8#post-4960978
shoutout to @Gokukid2005
But following his proposals, Sakura would scale above the no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke levels of power (considering chapter 9 implies she was clashing with Shin while he was using his MS to control a bladed arm) and the databooks imply Sakura reached similar levels as Naruto and Sasuke. Meanwhile Shin could pierce Naruto's KCM cloak with his MS, something that not even Teen Sasuke could do with a Chidori (albeit Naruto wasn't exactly paying attention), so his MS should be scaling around teen Sasuke. For the sake of safe lowballs, I'll simply scale them above no Rinnegan Sasuke.
59.44 ZT for Adult Sakura and Shin's MS

Momo and Kin
Their scaling stays the same, more concretely rooted in Kinshiki's fight with Sasuke.
78.2 ZT for base Momo and Kin, 156.4 ZT for Fused Momo

The Kage
Tsuchikage burnt Kinshiki with her jutsu so her jutsu scales, and she debatably harmed him with a punch, although the consistency of that is questionable. Mizuke stabbed Kinshiki with his jutsu so his jutsu scales, he also likely downscales from Kinshiki's physicals. Raikage could match weapon clashes with Momo so he scales. Gaara blocked Fused Momo's punch with his sand, but has no feats for his physicals.
possibly 78.2 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Kurotsuchi
likely 59.44 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Chojuro
78.2 ZT for Darui
156.4 ZT with Sand for Gaara

Naruto the Burrito
His scaling is staying the same, 50% base outscales all the other Kage vs Fused Momo in terms of physicals, 50% SPSM KCM just dunks on Fused Momo, and then Baryon Mode coccslaps Isshiki. Dropping the possibly tier 4 stuff for now, might return to it once we figure everything else out. Also, Naruto without Kurama is just base Naruto for all intents and purposes.
156.4 ZT in base, higher with Sage Mode, 312.8 ZT with SPSM KCM, at least 3.218 YT with Baryon Mode for Naruto

Shikamaru
He restrains Otsutsuki and he is capable of crushing the heads of the other Kage and Naruto needed SPSM KCM to break out of it. Shikamaru's shadows blatantly scale to the likes of Darui via those statements.
78.2 ZT with Shadows

Hokashi
Kakashi likely scales comparable to base Koji, but considering the ambiguity of the fight, I'm fine with either dropping Kakashi or just possibly scaling him to Koji. Also by Hokage Kakashi I mean Boruto era Kakashi lol
either no or possibly 312.8 ZT for Kakashi

Urashiki
Personally, I find the "he's inconsistent" to be a complete and utter cop out when tmk the series goes out of their way to explain how he gets poisoned and nerfed throughout the arc. However, I do not care at all for Urashiki and as such am dropping him unless someone wants to drop an imgur scan dump scaling Urashiki and proving his nerfed showings aren't anti feats.

Jigen/Isshiki
His scaling stays the same, dunking on Naruto and Sasuke, and contesting Koji while extremely nerfed.
at least 156.4 ZT in base, at least 312.8 ZT with Karma, 3.128 YT with Otsutsuki form for Jigen
at least 3.128 YT for Isshiki

Cyborgs, Boruto, and Kawaki
Their scaling is all remaining the same as the OP, not really much to rehash, since 99.99999% of discussion has been "raaaa Shin and Sakura"

 

[ssgengar]

Aight guys, finally getting to my proposed changes/compromises/etc.

Hag and Ham
These guys stay the same nothing is wrong with them.
78.2 ZT for them both

Madara
I'm still convinced he should be where I initially proposed him to be. The reasoning here very much still holds:

Spoiler: Gah

Madara​

The imgur explains the reasoning behind my premise, but to put it simply, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara (the strongest we see him get) scales to Hagoromo through this scaling chain:

One Rinnegan Juubidara = close to Hagoromo < Shinju-Absorbed Juubidara < Dual Rinnegan Juubidara ~ Hagoromo = 5-B

Via pure power scaling, specifically the bolded portion, it should be abundantly clear that Juubidara at his peak should be scaling relative to Hagoromo. Doubly so when you consider Juubidara got beyond a “one shot” level amp from single Rinnegan to two Rinnegan (went from being obliterated by SPSM Naruto’s Rasenshuriken with one eye to being able to fight both SPSM KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke simultaneously). Juubidara being close to Hagoromo’s power and then receiving a beyond “one shot” level amp should be enough evidence alone to scale peak Juubidara to Hagoromo.

Furthermore, the narrative around Juubidara’s ever increasing power is that he wants to obtain a power similar to that of Kaguya. We see this brought to the forefront as Juubidara gets betrayed and defeated by his own hubris (manifested in the form of Madara believing Black Zetsu is his will alone and that he cannot be used like he used Obito). Then Naruto flashes back to Hagoromo claiming Madara is nearing his own power, to Hagoromo claiming that Madara wants to get Kaguya’s power but that Kaguya’s power gives rise to self-destruction through hubris. This is what literally happens, Madara obtains Hagoromo’s power and when he tries to go further and obtain Kaguya’s power, he is undone by the rise of his own hubris. The narrative of Madara’s rise to power is that he climbs to the Sage of Six Paths level only to be overwhelmed and consumed in pursuit of Kaguya’s power.

But wait, there’s more! The databooks themselves directly state that when Juubidara got both eyes he unleashed the true power of the Six Paths, which heavily implies and all but directly confirms that Dual Rinnegan Juubidara reached Hagoromo’s power level. Six Paths refers to Hagoromo inherently, as Hagoromo is the Sage of Six Paths, and the namesake of those famous powers as known by the ninja world. Thus, awakening the true power of the Six Paths would inherently refer to unleashing the actual power of Hagoromo. Again this adds just further layers of consistency to Madara being this strong.

Additionally, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara casually spreads the God Tree roots around the world with his own energy. This feat is calculated to Small Planetary as a lowball. This feat serves as a solid supporting feat to the scaling I’m proposing for Madara. The preponderance of evidence for Madara scaling to Hagoromo is ever-so-increasing.

Finally, to touch upon Juubidara with a single Rinnegan. Hagaromo states he's getting close to himself in power, if Madara is nearing Hagaromo in power that would imply he's closer to Hagoromo in power than he is further from Hagoromo in power. This would mean One Rinnegan Juubidara should be over half way to Hagoromo's power. As consequence of this Night Guy would scale as well, since he was breaking Madara's body.

To conclude everything I’ve brought up, via powerscaling, narrative intent, and statements, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara is put on the same level of power as Hagoromo. One Rinnegan Juubidara scales above a power that rivals Hagoromo and is getting close to Hagoromo himself, and upon receiving multiple huge amps awakens to Dual Rinnegan Juubidara, unleashing power on par with Hagoromo, until eventually in attempts of pursuing a power beyond Hagoromo he falls to his own hubris. Therefore, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara should scale to Hagoromo. As far as quantifying weaker forms of Juubidara, I’m neutral on that and am open to suggestions.

Particularly the bolded portions are what has me sold on Juubidara's scaling. With 1 Rinnegan he's implied to be closer to Hag in power than he is far from Hag in power (implying a half relativity), and then he unleashes the true power of the Six Paths (Hag) with both eyes. It's extremely consistent with the narrative and multitude of statements. Furthermore, Naruto and Sasuke cannot serve as limiters as they didn't just receive half of Ghost Hag's chakra but they received new transformations and eyes as well. The halves of Hag's chakra meshed with Naruto and Sasuke's own chakra elevating to new heights.
39.1 ZT for 1 Rinnegan, 78.2 ZT for 2 Rinnegan

Guy
He gives 1 eyed Madara the hands with the 8 gates, his proposed scaling is the same.
39.1 ZT for Night Guy

Kaguya
Her scaling isn't controversial, it's simple, and it remains the same.
78.2 ZT for her

Naruto and Sasuke
I touched on them a little bit in Madara's section, but they just scale to Madara. Again, them receiving Hag's power on top of their own power and evolving into new forms does not limit them to just Hag's power.
78.2 ZT for them

Toneri
Personally I think "At least Low 5-B+, possibly 5-B" for his TCM for the same reasons I mentioned in the OP is best for him.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Naruto the Last
He just scales to TCM Toneri with his BSM, nothing complicated.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Sasuke the Last
Sasuke with Six Paths powers should scale above BSM Naruto, and I think it's stated he's Kakashi's best pupil or sumn like that during this era (it's deep in this thread). Furthermore, he should simply scale at least to his teen self as he has had more time to acclimate to his powers and he hasn't been stagnate in his worldly travels.
78.2 ZT for Sussy

Sasuke the Burrito
This is where a lot of the change comes from and where I think a lot of the dissenters will be pacified. I'm going to propose that Adult Sasuke simply scales to/above his teenage self, and keep his scaling to Kinshiki, rather than deal with the mental battles of scaling him to Fused Momo. Him and Kinshiki are able to consistently match each other anyway, and the manga portrays Fused Momo as slightly stronger than Sasuke. I think this will solve a lot of the "issues" he brings downscaling other characters to him. I then think no Rinnegan Sasuke should just downscale to baseline, as he's still a threat to some of the Boruto God Tiers.
59.44 ZT ~ no Rinnegan Sasuke < no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke < Rinnegan with tomoe Sasuke >= 78.2 ZT

Sakura and Shin
I urge you to read this post as it words it better than I ever could: https://vsbattles.com/threads/award...vements-of-success.140047/page-8#post-4960978
shoutout to @Gokukid2005
But following his proposals, Sakura would scale above the no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke levels of power (considering chapter 9 implies she was clashing with Shin while he was using his MS to control a bladed arm) and the databooks imply Sakura reached similar levels as Naruto and Sasuke. Meanwhile Shin could pierce Naruto's KCM cloak with his MS, something that not even Teen Sasuke could do with a Chidori (albeit Naruto wasn't exactly paying attention), so his MS should be scaling around teen Sasuke. For the sake of safe lowballs, I'll simply scale them above no Rinnegan Sasuke.
59.44 ZT for Adult Sakura and Shin's MS

Momo and Kin
Their scaling stays the same, more concretely rooted in Kinshiki's fight with Sasuke.
78.2 ZT for base Momo and Kin, 156.4 ZT for Fused Momo

The Kage
Tsuchikage burnt Kinshiki with her jutsu so her jutsu scales, and she debatably harmed him with a punch, although the consistency of that is questionable. Mizuke stabbed Kinshiki with his jutsu so his jutsu scales, he also likely downscales from Kinshiki's physicals. Raikage could match weapon clashes with Momo so he scales. Gaara blocked Fused Momo's punch with his sand, but has no feats for his physicals.
possibly 78.2 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Kurotsuchi
likely 59.44 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Chojuro
78.2 ZT for Darui
156.4 ZT with Sand for Gaara

Naruto the Burrito
His scaling is staying the same, 50% base outscales all the other Kage vs Fused Momo in terms of physicals, 50% SPSM KCM just dunks on Fused Momo, and then Baryon Mode coccslaps Isshiki. Dropping the possibly tier 4 stuff for now, might return to it once we figure everything else out. Also, Naruto without Kurama is just base Naruto for all intents and purposes.
156.4 ZT in base, higher with Sage Mode, 312.8 ZT with SPSM KCM, at least 3.218 YT with Baryon Mode for Naruto

Shikamaru
He restrains Otsutsuki and he is capable of crushing the heads of the other Kage and Naruto needed SPSM KCM to break out of it. Shikamaru's shadows blatantly scale to the likes of Darui via those statements.
78.2 ZT with Shadows

Hokashi
Kakashi likely scales comparable to base Koji, but considering the ambiguity of the fight, I'm fine with either dropping Kakashi or just possibly scaling him to Koji. Also by Hokage Kakashi I mean Boruto era Kakashi lol
either no or possibly 312.8 ZT for Kakashi

Urashiki
Personally, I find the "he's inconsistent" to be a complete and utter cop out when tmk the series goes out of their way to explain how he gets poisoned and nerfed throughout the arc. However, I do not care at all for Urashiki and as such am dropping him unless someone wants to drop an imgur scan dump scaling Urashiki and proving his nerfed showings aren't anti feats.

Jigen/Isshiki
His scaling stays the same, dunking on Naruto and Sasuke, and contesting Koji while extremely nerfed.
at least 156.4 ZT in base, at least 312.8 ZT with Karma, 3.128 YT with Otsutsuki form for Jigen
at least 3.128 YT for Isshiki

Cyborgs, Boruto, and Kawaki
Their scaling is all remaining the same as the OP, not really much to rehash, since 99.99999% of discussion has been "raaaa Shin and Sakura"

looks good to me

 

[LordTracer]

Aight guys, finally getting to my proposed changes/compromises/etc.

Hag and Ham
These guys stay the same nothing is wrong with them.
78.2 ZT for them both

Madara
I'm still convinced he should be where I initially proposed him to be. The reasoning here very much still holds:

Spoiler: Gah

Madara​

The imgur explains the reasoning behind my premise, but to put it simply, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara (the strongest we see him get) scales to Hagoromo through this scaling chain:

One Rinnegan Juubidara = close to Hagoromo < Shinju-Absorbed Juubidara < Dual Rinnegan Juubidara ~ Hagoromo = 5-B

Via pure power scaling, specifically the bolded portion, it should be abundantly clear that Juubidara at his peak should be scaling relative to Hagoromo. Doubly so when you consider Juubidara got beyond a “one shot” level amp from single Rinnegan to two Rinnegan (went from being obliterated by SPSM Naruto’s Rasenshuriken with one eye to being able to fight both SPSM KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke simultaneously). Juubidara being close to Hagoromo’s power and then receiving a beyond “one shot” level amp should be enough evidence alone to scale peak Juubidara to Hagoromo.

Furthermore, the narrative around Juubidara’s ever increasing power is that he wants to obtain a power similar to that of Kaguya. We see this brought to the forefront as Juubidara gets betrayed and defeated by his own hubris (manifested in the form of Madara believing Black Zetsu is his will alone and that he cannot be used like he used Obito). Then Naruto flashes back to Hagoromo claiming Madara is nearing his own power, to Hagoromo claiming that Madara wants to get Kaguya’s power but that Kaguya’s power gives rise to self-destruction through hubris. This is what literally happens, Madara obtains Hagoromo’s power and when he tries to go further and obtain Kaguya’s power, he is undone by the rise of his own hubris. The narrative of Madara’s rise to power is that he climbs to the Sage of Six Paths level only to be overwhelmed and consumed in pursuit of Kaguya’s power.

But wait, there’s more! The databooks themselves directly state that when Juubidara got both eyes he unleashed the true power of the Six Paths, which heavily implies and all but directly confirms that Dual Rinnegan Juubidara reached Hagoromo’s power level. Six Paths refers to Hagoromo inherently, as Hagoromo is the Sage of Six Paths, and the namesake of those famous powers as known by the ninja world. Thus, awakening the true power of the Six Paths would inherently refer to unleashing the actual power of Hagoromo. Again this adds just further layers of consistency to Madara being this strong.

Additionally, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara casually spreads the God Tree roots around the world with his own energy. This feat is calculated to Small Planetary as a lowball. This feat serves as a solid supporting feat to the scaling I’m proposing for Madara. The preponderance of evidence for Madara scaling to Hagoromo is ever-so-increasing.

Finally, to touch upon Juubidara with a single Rinnegan. Hagaromo states he's getting close to himself in power, if Madara is nearing Hagaromo in power that would imply he's closer to Hagoromo in power than he is further from Hagoromo in power. This would mean One Rinnegan Juubidara should be over half way to Hagoromo's power. As consequence of this Night Guy would scale as well, since he was breaking Madara's body.

To conclude everything I’ve brought up, via powerscaling, narrative intent, and statements, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara is put on the same level of power as Hagoromo. One Rinnegan Juubidara scales above a power that rivals Hagoromo and is getting close to Hagoromo himself, and upon receiving multiple huge amps awakens to Dual Rinnegan Juubidara, unleashing power on par with Hagoromo, until eventually in attempts of pursuing a power beyond Hagoromo he falls to his own hubris. Therefore, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara should scale to Hagoromo. As far as quantifying weaker forms of Juubidara, I’m neutral on that and am open to suggestions.

Particularly the bolded portions are what has me sold on Juubidara's scaling. With 1 Rinnegan he's implied to be closer to Hag in power than he is far from Hag in power (implying a half relativity), and then he unleashes the true power of the Six Paths (Hag) with both eyes. It's extremely consistent with the narrative and multitude of statements. Furthermore, Naruto and Sasuke cannot serve as limiters as they didn't just receive half of Ghost Hag's chakra but they received new transformations and eyes as well. The halves of Hag's chakra meshed with Naruto and Sasuke's own chakra elevating to new heights.
39.1 ZT for 1 Rinnegan, 78.2 ZT for 2 Rinnegan

Guy
He gives 1 eyed Madara the hands with the 8 gates, his proposed scaling is the same.
39.1 ZT for Night Guy

Kaguya
Her scaling isn't controversial, it's simple, and it remains the same.
78.2 ZT for her

Naruto and Sasuke
I touched on them a little bit in Madara's section, but they just scale to Madara. Again, them receiving Hag's power on top of their own power and evolving into new forms does not limit them to just Hag's power.
78.2 ZT for them

Toneri
Personally I think "At least Low 5-B+, possibly 5-B" for his TCM for the same reasons I mentioned in the OP is best for him.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Naruto the Last
He just scales to TCM Toneri with his BSM, nothing complicated.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Sasuke the Last
Sasuke with Six Paths powers should scale above BSM Naruto, and I think it's stated he's Kakashi's best pupil or sumn like that during this era (it's deep in this thread). Furthermore, he should simply scale at least to his teen self as he has had more time to acclimate to his powers and he hasn't been stagnate in his worldly travels.
78.2 ZT for Sussy

Sasuke the Burrito
This is where a lot of the change comes from and where I think a lot of the dissenters will be pacified. I'm going to propose that Adult Sasuke simply scales to/above his teenage self, and keep his scaling to Kinshiki, rather than deal with the mental battles of scaling him to Fused Momo. Him and Kinshiki are able to consistently match each other anyway, and the manga portrays Fused Momo as slightly stronger than Sasuke. I think this will solve a lot of the "issues" he brings downscaling other characters to him. I then think no Rinnegan Sasuke should just downscale to baseline, as he's still a threat to some of the Boruto God Tiers.
59.44 ZT ~ no Rinnegan Sasuke < no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke < Rinnegan with tomoe Sasuke >= 78.2 ZT

Sakura and Shin
I urge you to read this post as it words it better than I ever could: https://vsbattles.com/threads/award...vements-of-success.140047/page-8#post-4960978
shoutout to @Gokukid2005
But following his proposals, Sakura would scale above the no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke levels of power (considering chapter 9 implies she was clashing with Shin while he was using his MS to control a bladed arm) and the databooks imply Sakura reached similar levels as Naruto and Sasuke. Meanwhile Shin could pierce Naruto's KCM cloak with his MS, something that not even Teen Sasuke could do with a Chidori (albeit Naruto wasn't exactly paying attention), so his MS should be scaling around teen Sasuke. For the sake of safe lowballs, I'll simply scale them above no Rinnegan Sasuke.
59.44 ZT for Adult Sakura and Shin's MS

Momo and Kin
Their scaling stays the same, more concretely rooted in Kinshiki's fight with Sasuke.
78.2 ZT for base Momo and Kin, 156.4 ZT for Fused Momo

The Kage
Tsuchikage burnt Kinshiki with her jutsu so her jutsu scales, and she debatably harmed him with a punch, although the consistency of that is questionable. Mizuke stabbed Kinshiki with his jutsu so his jutsu scales, he also likely downscales from Kinshiki's physicals. Raikage could match weapon clashes with Momo so he scales. Gaara blocked Fused Momo's punch with his sand, but has no feats for his physicals.
possibly 78.2 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Kurotsuchi
likely 59.44 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Chojuro
78.2 ZT for Darui
156.4 ZT with Sand for Gaara

Naruto the Burrito
His scaling is staying the same, 50% base outscales all the other Kage vs Fused Momo in terms of physicals, 50% SPSM KCM just dunks on Fused Momo, and then Baryon Mode coccslaps Isshiki. Dropping the possibly tier 4 stuff for now, might return to it once we figure everything else out. Also, Naruto without Kurama is just base Naruto for all intents and purposes.
156.4 ZT in base, higher with Sage Mode, 312.8 ZT with SPSM KCM, at least 3.218 YT with Baryon Mode for Naruto

Shikamaru
He restrains Otsutsuki and he is capable of crushing the heads of the other Kage and Naruto needed SPSM KCM to break out of it. Shikamaru's shadows blatantly scale to the likes of Darui via those statements.
78.2 ZT with Shadows

Hokashi
Kakashi likely scales comparable to base Koji, but considering the ambiguity of the fight, I'm fine with either dropping Kakashi or just possibly scaling him to Koji. Also by Hokage Kakashi I mean Boruto era Kakashi lol
either no or possibly 312.8 ZT for Kakashi

Urashiki
Personally, I find the "he's inconsistent" to be a complete and utter cop out when tmk the series goes out of their way to explain how he gets poisoned and nerfed throughout the arc. However, I do not care at all for Urashiki and as such am dropping him unless someone wants to drop an imgur scan dump scaling Urashiki and proving his nerfed showings aren't anti feats.

Jigen/Isshiki
His scaling stays the same, dunking on Naruto and Sasuke, and contesting Koji while extremely nerfed.
at least 156.4 ZT in base, at least 312.8 ZT with Karma, 3.128 YT with Otsutsuki form for Jigen
at least 3.128 YT for Isshiki

Cyborgs, Boruto, and Kawaki
Their scaling is all remaining the same as the OP, not really much to rehash, since 99.99999% of discussion has been "raaaa Shin and Sakura"

Yeah, these changes seem fine to me.

 

[ssgengar]

And I agree about the possible tier 4 stuff, that can be discussed a different time

 

[BlastX]

Yeh it's fine

 

[ninjaking21]

Shouldn’t kaguya be rated 5-B higher with IT since the infinite tsukuyomi chakra boost all her stats

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Shouldn’t kaguya be rated 5-B higher with IT since the infinite tsukuyomi chakra boost all her stats

Yeah I can include that.

 

[NaruRiasUzumaki]

Aight guys, finally getting to my proposed changes/compromises/etc.

Hag and Ham
These guys stay the same nothing is wrong with them.
78.2 ZT for them both

Madara
I'm still convinced he should be where I initially proposed him to be. The reasoning here very much still holds:

Spoiler: Gah

Madara​

The imgur explains the reasoning behind my premise, but to put it simply, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara (the strongest we see him get) scales to Hagoromo through this scaling chain:

One Rinnegan Juubidara = close to Hagoromo < Shinju-Absorbed Juubidara < Dual Rinnegan Juubidara ~ Hagoromo = 5-B

Via pure power scaling, specifically the bolded portion, it should be abundantly clear that Juubidara at his peak should be scaling relative to Hagoromo. Doubly so when you consider Juubidara got beyond a “one shot” level amp from single Rinnegan to two Rinnegan (went from being obliterated by SPSM Naruto’s Rasenshuriken with one eye to being able to fight both SPSM KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke simultaneously). Juubidara being close to Hagoromo’s power and then receiving a beyond “one shot” level amp should be enough evidence alone to scale peak Juubidara to Hagoromo.

Furthermore, the narrative around Juubidara’s ever increasing power is that he wants to obtain a power similar to that of Kaguya. We see this brought to the forefront as Juubidara gets betrayed and defeated by his own hubris (manifested in the form of Madara believing Black Zetsu is his will alone and that he cannot be used like he used Obito). Then Naruto flashes back to Hagoromo claiming Madara is nearing his own power, to Hagoromo claiming that Madara wants to get Kaguya’s power but that Kaguya’s power gives rise to self-destruction through hubris. This is what literally happens, Madara obtains Hagoromo’s power and when he tries to go further and obtain Kaguya’s power, he is undone by the rise of his own hubris. The narrative of Madara’s rise to power is that he climbs to the Sage of Six Paths level only to be overwhelmed and consumed in pursuit of Kaguya’s power.

But wait, there’s more! The databooks themselves directly state that when Juubidara got both eyes he unleashed the true power of the Six Paths, which heavily implies and all but directly confirms that Dual Rinnegan Juubidara reached Hagoromo’s power level. Six Paths refers to Hagoromo inherently, as Hagoromo is the Sage of Six Paths, and the namesake of those famous powers as known by the ninja world. Thus, awakening the true power of the Six Paths would inherently refer to unleashing the actual power of Hagoromo. Again this adds just further layers of consistency to Madara being this strong.

Additionally, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara casually spreads the God Tree roots around the world with his own energy. This feat is calculated to Small Planetary as a lowball. This feat serves as a solid supporting feat to the scaling I’m proposing for Madara. The preponderance of evidence for Madara scaling to Hagoromo is ever-so-increasing.

Finally, to touch upon Juubidara with a single Rinnegan. Hagaromo states he's getting close to himself in power, if Madara is nearing Hagaromo in power that would imply he's closer to Hagoromo in power than he is further from Hagoromo in power. This would mean One Rinnegan Juubidara should be over half way to Hagoromo's power. As consequence of this Night Guy would scale as well, since he was breaking Madara's body.

To conclude everything I’ve brought up, via powerscaling, narrative intent, and statements, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara is put on the same level of power as Hagoromo. One Rinnegan Juubidara scales above a power that rivals Hagoromo and is getting close to Hagoromo himself, and upon receiving multiple huge amps awakens to Dual Rinnegan Juubidara, unleashing power on par with Hagoromo, until eventually in attempts of pursuing a power beyond Hagoromo he falls to his own hubris. Therefore, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara should scale to Hagoromo. As far as quantifying weaker forms of Juubidara, I’m neutral on that and am open to suggestions.

Particularly the bolded portions are what has me sold on Juubidara's scaling. With 1 Rinnegan he's implied to be closer to Hag in power than he is far from Hag in power (implying a half relativity), and then he unleashes the true power of the Six Paths (Hag) with both eyes. It's extremely consistent with the narrative and multitude of statements. Furthermore, Naruto and Sasuke cannot serve as limiters as they didn't just receive half of Ghost Hag's chakra but they received new transformations and eyes as well. The halves of Hag's chakra meshed with Naruto and Sasuke's own chakra elevating to new heights.
39.1 ZT for 1 Rinnegan, 78.2 ZT for 2 Rinnegan

Guy
He gives 1 eyed Madara the hands with the 8 gates, his proposed scaling is the same.
39.1 ZT for Night Guy

Kaguya
Her scaling isn't controversial, it's simple, and it remains the same.
78.2 ZT for her

Naruto and Sasuke
I touched on them a little bit in Madara's section, but they just scale to Madara. Again, them receiving Hag's power on top of their own power and evolving into new forms does not limit them to just Hag's power.
78.2 ZT for them

Toneri
Personally I think "At least Low 5-B+, possibly 5-B" for his TCM for the same reasons I mentioned in the OP is best for him.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Naruto the Last
He just scales to TCM Toneri with his BSM, nothing complicated.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Sasuke the Last
Sasuke with Six Paths powers should scale above BSM Naruto, and I think it's stated he's Kakashi's best pupil or sumn like that during this era (it's deep in this thread). Furthermore, he should simply scale at least to his teen self as he has had more time to acclimate to his powers and he hasn't been stagnate in his worldly travels.
78.2 ZT for Sussy

Sasuke the Burrito
This is where a lot of the change comes from and where I think a lot of the dissenters will be pacified. I'm going to propose that Adult Sasuke simply scales to/above his teenage self, and keep his scaling to Kinshiki, rather than deal with the mental battles of scaling him to Fused Momo. Him and Kinshiki are able to consistently match each other anyway, and the manga portrays Fused Momo as slightly stronger than Sasuke. I think this will solve a lot of the "issues" he brings downscaling other characters to him. I then think no Rinnegan Sasuke should just downscale to baseline, as he's still a threat to some of the Boruto God Tiers.
59.44 ZT ~ no Rinnegan Sasuke < no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke < Rinnegan with tomoe Sasuke >= 78.2 ZT

Sakura and Shin
I urge you to read this post as it words it better than I ever could: https://vsbattles.com/threads/award...vements-of-success.140047/page-8#post-4960978
shoutout to @Gokukid2005
But following his proposals, Sakura would scale above the no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke levels of power (considering chapter 9 implies she was clashing with Shin while he was using his MS to control a bladed arm) and the databooks imply Sakura reached similar levels as Naruto and Sasuke. Meanwhile Shin could pierce Naruto's KCM cloak with his MS, something that not even Teen Sasuke could do with a Chidori (albeit Naruto wasn't exactly paying attention), so his MS should be scaling around teen Sasuke. For the sake of safe lowballs, I'll simply scale them above no Rinnegan Sasuke.
59.44 ZT for Adult Sakura and Shin's MS

Momo and Kin
Their scaling stays the same, more concretely rooted in Kinshiki's fight with Sasuke.
78.2 ZT for base Momo and Kin, 156.4 ZT for Fused Momo

The Kage
Tsuchikage burnt Kinshiki with her jutsu so her jutsu scales, and she debatably harmed him with a punch, although the consistency of that is questionable. Mizuke stabbed Kinshiki with his jutsu so his jutsu scales, he also likely downscales from Kinshiki's physicals. Raikage could match weapon clashes with Momo so he scales. Gaara blocked Fused Momo's punch with his sand, but has no feats for his physicals.
possibly 78.2 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Kurotsuchi
likely 59.44 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Chojuro
78.2 ZT for Darui
156.4 ZT with Sand for Gaara

Naruto the Burrito
His scaling is staying the same, 50% base outscales all the other Kage vs Fused Momo in terms of physicals, 50% SPSM KCM just dunks on Fused Momo, and then Baryon Mode coccslaps Isshiki. Dropping the possibly tier 4 stuff for now, might return to it once we figure everything else out. Also, Naruto without Kurama is just base Naruto for all intents and purposes.
156.4 ZT in base, higher with Sage Mode, 312.8 ZT with SPSM KCM, at least 3.218 YT with Baryon Mode for Naruto

Shikamaru
He restrains Otsutsuki and he is capable of crushing the heads of the other Kage and Naruto needed SPSM KCM to break out of it. Shikamaru's shadows blatantly scale to the likes of Darui via those statements.
78.2 ZT with Shadows

Hokashi
Kakashi likely scales comparable to base Koji, but considering the ambiguity of the fight, I'm fine with either dropping Kakashi or just possibly scaling him to Koji. Also by Hokage Kakashi I mean Boruto era Kakashi lol
either no or possibly 312.8 ZT for Kakashi

Urashiki
Personally, I find the "he's inconsistent" to be a complete and utter cop out when tmk the series goes out of their way to explain how he gets poisoned and nerfed throughout the arc. However, I do not care at all for Urashiki and as such am dropping him unless someone wants to drop an imgur scan dump scaling Urashiki and proving his nerfed showings aren't anti feats.

Jigen/Isshiki
His scaling stays the same, dunking on Naruto and Sasuke, and contesting Koji while extremely nerfed.
at least 156.4 ZT in base, at least 312.8 ZT with Karma, 3.128 YT with Otsutsuki form for Jigen
at least 3.128 YT for Isshiki

Cyborgs, Boruto, and Kawaki
Their scaling is all remaining the same as the OP, not really much to rehash, since 99.99999% of discussion has been "raaaa Shin and Sakura"

Excellent!

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Aight guys, finally getting to my proposed changes/compromises/etc.

Hag and Ham
These guys stay the same nothing is wrong with them.
78.2 ZT for them both

Madara
I'm still convinced he should be where I initially proposed him to be. The reasoning here very much still holds:

Spoiler: Gah

Madara​

The imgur explains the reasoning behind my premise, but to put it simply, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara (the strongest we see him get) scales to Hagoromo through this scaling chain:

One Rinnegan Juubidara = close to Hagoromo < Shinju-Absorbed Juubidara < Dual Rinnegan Juubidara ~ Hagoromo = 5-B

Via pure power scaling, specifically the bolded portion, it should be abundantly clear that Juubidara at his peak should be scaling relative to Hagoromo. Doubly so when you consider Juubidara got beyond a “one shot” level amp from single Rinnegan to two Rinnegan (went from being obliterated by SPSM Naruto’s Rasenshuriken with one eye to being able to fight both SPSM KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke simultaneously). Juubidara being close to Hagoromo’s power and then receiving a beyond “one shot” level amp should be enough evidence alone to scale peak Juubidara to Hagoromo.

Furthermore, the narrative around Juubidara’s ever increasing power is that he wants to obtain a power similar to that of Kaguya. We see this brought to the forefront as Juubidara gets betrayed and defeated by his own hubris (manifested in the form of Madara believing Black Zetsu is his will alone and that he cannot be used like he used Obito). Then Naruto flashes back to Hagoromo claiming Madara is nearing his own power, to Hagoromo claiming that Madara wants to get Kaguya’s power but that Kaguya’s power gives rise to self-destruction through hubris. This is what literally happens, Madara obtains Hagoromo’s power and when he tries to go further and obtain Kaguya’s power, he is undone by the rise of his own hubris. The narrative of Madara’s rise to power is that he climbs to the Sage of Six Paths level only to be overwhelmed and consumed in pursuit of Kaguya’s power.

But wait, there’s more! The databooks themselves directly state that when Juubidara got both eyes he unleashed the true power of the Six Paths, which heavily implies and all but directly confirms that Dual Rinnegan Juubidara reached Hagoromo’s power level. Six Paths refers to Hagoromo inherently, as Hagoromo is the Sage of Six Paths, and the namesake of those famous powers as known by the ninja world. Thus, awakening the true power of the Six Paths would inherently refer to unleashing the actual power of Hagoromo. Again this adds just further layers of consistency to Madara being this strong.

Additionally, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara casually spreads the God Tree roots around the world with his own energy. This feat is calculated to Small Planetary as a lowball. This feat serves as a solid supporting feat to the scaling I’m proposing for Madara. The preponderance of evidence for Madara scaling to Hagoromo is ever-so-increasing.

Finally, to touch upon Juubidara with a single Rinnegan. Hagaromo states he's getting close to himself in power, if Madara is nearing Hagaromo in power that would imply he's closer to Hagoromo in power than he is further from Hagoromo in power. This would mean One Rinnegan Juubidara should be over half way to Hagoromo's power. As consequence of this Night Guy would scale as well, since he was breaking Madara's body.

To conclude everything I’ve brought up, via powerscaling, narrative intent, and statements, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara is put on the same level of power as Hagoromo. One Rinnegan Juubidara scales above a power that rivals Hagoromo and is getting close to Hagoromo himself, and upon receiving multiple huge amps awakens to Dual Rinnegan Juubidara, unleashing power on par with Hagoromo, until eventually in attempts of pursuing a power beyond Hagoromo he falls to his own hubris. Therefore, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara should scale to Hagoromo. As far as quantifying weaker forms of Juubidara, I’m neutral on that and am open to suggestions.

Particularly the bolded portions are what has me sold on Juubidara's scaling. With 1 Rinnegan he's implied to be closer to Hag in power than he is far from Hag in power (implying a half relativity), and then he unleashes the true power of the Six Paths (Hag) with both eyes. It's extremely consistent with the narrative and multitude of statements. Furthermore, Naruto and Sasuke cannot serve as limiters as they didn't just receive half of Ghost Hag's chakra but they received new transformations and eyes as well. The halves of Hag's chakra meshed with Naruto and Sasuke's own chakra elevating to new heights.
39.1 ZT for 1 Rinnegan, 78.2 ZT for 2 Rinnegan

Guy
He gives 1 eyed Madara the hands with the 8 gates, his proposed scaling is the same.
39.1 ZT for Night Guy

Kaguya
Her scaling isn't controversial, it's simple, and it remains the same.
78.2 ZT for her

Naruto and Sasuke
I touched on them a little bit in Madara's section, but they just scale to Madara. Again, them receiving Hag's power on top of their own power and evolving into new forms does not limit them to just Hag's power.
78.2 ZT for them

Toneri
Personally I think "At least Low 5-B+, possibly 5-B" for his TCM for the same reasons I mentioned in the OP is best for him.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Naruto the Last
He just scales to TCM Toneri with his BSM, nothing complicated.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Sasuke the Last
Sasuke with Six Paths powers should scale above BSM Naruto, and I think it's stated he's Kakashi's best pupil or sumn like that during this era (it's deep in this thread). Furthermore, he should simply scale at least to his teen self as he has had more time to acclimate to his powers and he hasn't been stagnate in his worldly travels.
78.2 ZT for Sussy

Sasuke the Burrito
This is where a lot of the change comes from and where I think a lot of the dissenters will be pacified. I'm going to propose that Adult Sasuke simply scales to/above his teenage self, and keep his scaling to Kinshiki, rather than deal with the mental battles of scaling him to Fused Momo. Him and Kinshiki are able to consistently match each other anyway, and the manga portrays Fused Momo as slightly stronger than Sasuke. I think this will solve a lot of the "issues" he brings downscaling other characters to him. I then think no Rinnegan Sasuke should just downscale to baseline, as he's still a threat to some of the Boruto God Tiers.
59.44 ZT ~ no Rinnegan Sasuke < no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke < Rinnegan with tomoe Sasuke >= 78.2 ZT

Sakura and Shin
I urge you to read this post as it words it better than I ever could: https://vsbattles.com/threads/award...vements-of-success.140047/page-8#post-4960978
shoutout to @Gokukid2005
But following his proposals, Sakura would scale above the no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke levels of power (considering chapter 9 implies she was clashing with Shin while he was using his MS to control a bladed arm) and the databooks imply Sakura reached similar levels as Naruto and Sasuke. Meanwhile Shin could pierce Naruto's KCM cloak with his MS, something that not even Teen Sasuke could do with a Chidori (albeit Naruto wasn't exactly paying attention), so his MS should be scaling around teen Sasuke. For the sake of safe lowballs, I'll simply scale them above no Rinnegan Sasuke.
59.44 ZT for Adult Sakura and Shin's MS

Momo and Kin
Their scaling stays the same, more concretely rooted in Kinshiki's fight with Sasuke.
78.2 ZT for base Momo and Kin, 156.4 ZT for Fused Momo

The Kage
Tsuchikage burnt Kinshiki with her jutsu so her jutsu scales, and she debatably harmed him with a punch, although the consistency of that is questionable. Mizuke stabbed Kinshiki with his jutsu so his jutsu scales, he also likely downscales from Kinshiki's physicals. Raikage could match weapon clashes with Momo so he scales. Gaara blocked Fused Momo's punch with his sand, but has no feats for his physicals.
possibly 78.2 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Kurotsuchi
likely 59.44 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Chojuro
78.2 ZT for Darui
156.4 ZT with Sand for Gaara

Naruto the Burrito
His scaling is staying the same, 50% base outscales all the other Kage vs Fused Momo in terms of physicals, 50% SPSM KCM just dunks on Fused Momo, and then Baryon Mode coccslaps Isshiki. Dropping the possibly tier 4 stuff for now, might return to it once we figure everything else out. Also, Naruto without Kurama is just base Naruto for all intents and purposes.
156.4 ZT in base, higher with Sage Mode, 312.8 ZT with SPSM KCM, at least 3.218 YT with Baryon Mode for Naruto

Shikamaru
He restrains Otsutsuki and he is capable of crushing the heads of the other Kage and Naruto needed SPSM KCM to break out of it. Shikamaru's shadows blatantly scale to the likes of Darui via those statements.
78.2 ZT with Shadows

Hokashi
Kakashi likely scales comparable to base Koji, but considering the ambiguity of the fight, I'm fine with either dropping Kakashi or just possibly scaling him to Koji. Also by Hokage Kakashi I mean Boruto era Kakashi lol
either no or possibly 312.8 ZT for Kakashi

Urashiki
Personally, I find the "he's inconsistent" to be a complete and utter cop out when tmk the series goes out of their way to explain how he gets poisoned and nerfed throughout the arc. However, I do not care at all for Urashiki and as such am dropping him unless someone wants to drop an imgur scan dump scaling Urashiki and proving his nerfed showings aren't anti feats.

Jigen/Isshiki
His scaling stays the same, dunking on Naruto and Sasuke, and contesting Koji while extremely nerfed.
at least 156.4 ZT in base, at least 312.8 ZT with Karma, 3.128 YT with Otsutsuki form for Jigen
at least 3.128 YT for Isshiki

Cyborgs, Boruto, and Kawaki
Their scaling is all remaining the same as the OP, not really much to rehash, since 99.99999% of discussion has been "raaaa Shin and Sakura"

Still don't agree with some of those but hey, what can you do? I guess these are fine all in all though. Good God! I hope the thread I make never lasts 14 damn pages.

 

[Tdjwo]

Aight guys, finally getting to my proposed changes/compromises/etc.

Hag and Ham
These guys stay the same nothing is wrong with them.
78.2 ZT for them both

Madara
I'm still convinced he should be where I initially proposed him to be. The reasoning here very much still holds:

Spoiler: Gah

Madara​

The imgur explains the reasoning behind my premise, but to put it simply, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara (the strongest we see him get) scales to Hagoromo through this scaling chain:

One Rinnegan Juubidara = close to Hagoromo < Shinju-Absorbed Juubidara < Dual Rinnegan Juubidara ~ Hagoromo = 5-B

Via pure power scaling, specifically the bolded portion, it should be abundantly clear that Juubidara at his peak should be scaling relative to Hagoromo. Doubly so when you consider Juubidara got beyond a “one shot” level amp from single Rinnegan to two Rinnegan (went from being obliterated by SPSM Naruto’s Rasenshuriken with one eye to being able to fight both SPSM KCM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke simultaneously). Juubidara being close to Hagoromo’s power and then receiving a beyond “one shot” level amp should be enough evidence alone to scale peak Juubidara to Hagoromo.

Furthermore, the narrative around Juubidara’s ever increasing power is that he wants to obtain a power similar to that of Kaguya. We see this brought to the forefront as Juubidara gets betrayed and defeated by his own hubris (manifested in the form of Madara believing Black Zetsu is his will alone and that he cannot be used like he used Obito). Then Naruto flashes back to Hagoromo claiming Madara is nearing his own power, to Hagoromo claiming that Madara wants to get Kaguya’s power but that Kaguya’s power gives rise to self-destruction through hubris. This is what literally happens, Madara obtains Hagoromo’s power and when he tries to go further and obtain Kaguya’s power, he is undone by the rise of his own hubris. The narrative of Madara’s rise to power is that he climbs to the Sage of Six Paths level only to be overwhelmed and consumed in pursuit of Kaguya’s power.

But wait, there’s more! The databooks themselves directly state that when Juubidara got both eyes he unleashed the true power of the Six Paths, which heavily implies and all but directly confirms that Dual Rinnegan Juubidara reached Hagoromo’s power level. Six Paths refers to Hagoromo inherently, as Hagoromo is the Sage of Six Paths, and the namesake of those famous powers as known by the ninja world. Thus, awakening the true power of the Six Paths would inherently refer to unleashing the actual power of Hagoromo. Again this adds just further layers of consistency to Madara being this strong.

Additionally, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara casually spreads the God Tree roots around the world with his own energy. This feat is calculated to Small Planetary as a lowball. This feat serves as a solid supporting feat to the scaling I’m proposing for Madara. The preponderance of evidence for Madara scaling to Hagoromo is ever-so-increasing.

Finally, to touch upon Juubidara with a single Rinnegan. Hagaromo states he's getting close to himself in power, if Madara is nearing Hagaromo in power that would imply he's closer to Hagoromo in power than he is further from Hagoromo in power. This would mean One Rinnegan Juubidara should be over half way to Hagoromo's power. As consequence of this Night Guy would scale as well, since he was breaking Madara's body.

To conclude everything I’ve brought up, via powerscaling, narrative intent, and statements, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara is put on the same level of power as Hagoromo. One Rinnegan Juubidara scales above a power that rivals Hagoromo and is getting close to Hagoromo himself, and upon receiving multiple huge amps awakens to Dual Rinnegan Juubidara, unleashing power on par with Hagoromo, until eventually in attempts of pursuing a power beyond Hagoromo he falls to his own hubris. Therefore, Dual Rinnegan Juubidara should scale to Hagoromo. As far as quantifying weaker forms of Juubidara, I’m neutral on that and am open to suggestions.

Particularly the bolded portions are what has me sold on Juubidara's scaling. With 1 Rinnegan he's implied to be closer to Hag in power than he is far from Hag in power (implying a half relativity), and then he unleashes the true power of the Six Paths (Hag) with both eyes. It's extremely consistent with the narrative and multitude of statements. Furthermore, Naruto and Sasuke cannot serve as limiters as they didn't just receive half of Ghost Hag's chakra but they received new transformations and eyes as well. The halves of Hag's chakra meshed with Naruto and Sasuke's own chakra elevating to new heights.
39.1 ZT for 1 Rinnegan, 78.2 ZT for 2 Rinnegan

Guy
He gives 1 eyed Madara the hands with the 8 gates, his proposed scaling is the same.
39.1 ZT for Night Guy

Kaguya
Her scaling isn't controversial, it's simple, and it remains the same.
78.2 ZT for her

Naruto and Sasuke
I touched on them a little bit in Madara's section, but they just scale to Madara. Again, them receiving Hag's power on top of their own power and evolving into new forms does not limit them to just Hag's power.
78.2 ZT for them

Toneri
Personally I think "At least Low 5-B+, possibly 5-B" for his TCM for the same reasons I mentioned in the OP is best for him.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Naruto the Last
He just scales to TCM Toneri with his BSM, nothing complicated.
39.1 ZT, possibly 78.2 ZT

Sasuke the Last
Sasuke with Six Paths powers should scale above BSM Naruto, and I think it's stated he's Kakashi's best pupil or sumn like that during this era (it's deep in this thread). Furthermore, he should simply scale at least to his teen self as he has had more time to acclimate to his powers and he hasn't been stagnate in his worldly travels.
78.2 ZT for Sussy

Sasuke the Burrito
This is where a lot of the change comes from and where I think a lot of the dissenters will be pacified. I'm going to propose that Adult Sasuke simply scales to/above his teenage self, and keep his scaling to Kinshiki, rather than deal with the mental battles of scaling him to Fused Momo. Him and Kinshiki are able to consistently match each other anyway, and the manga portrays Fused Momo as slightly stronger than Sasuke. I think this will solve a lot of the "issues" he brings downscaling other characters to him. I then think no Rinnegan Sasuke should just downscale to baseline, as he's still a threat to some of the Boruto God Tiers.
59.44 ZT ~ no Rinnegan Sasuke < no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke < Rinnegan with tomoe Sasuke >= 78.2 ZT

Sakura and Shin
I urge you to read this post as it words it better than I ever could: https://vsbattles.com/threads/award...vements-of-success.140047/page-8#post-4960978
shoutout to @Gokukid2005
But following his proposals, Sakura would scale above the no tomoe Rinnegan Sasuke levels of power (considering chapter 9 implies she was clashing with Shin while he was using his MS to control a bladed arm) and the databooks imply Sakura reached similar levels as Naruto and Sasuke. Meanwhile Shin could pierce Naruto's KCM cloak with his MS, something that not even Teen Sasuke could do with a Chidori (albeit Naruto wasn't exactly paying attention), so his MS should be scaling around teen Sasuke. For the sake of safe lowballs, I'll simply scale them above no Rinnegan Sasuke.
59.44 ZT for Adult Sakura and Shin's MS

Momo and Kin
Their scaling stays the same, more concretely rooted in Kinshiki's fight with Sasuke.
78.2 ZT for base Momo and Kin, 156.4 ZT for Fused Momo

The Kage
Tsuchikage burnt Kinshiki with her jutsu so her jutsu scales, and she debatably harmed him with a punch, although the consistency of that is questionable. Mizuke stabbed Kinshiki with his jutsu so his jutsu scales, he also likely downscales from Kinshiki's physicals. Raikage could match weapon clashes with Momo so he scales. Gaara blocked Fused Momo's punch with his sand, but has no feats for his physicals.
possibly 78.2 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Kurotsuchi
likely 59.44 ZT, 78.2 ZT with Jutsu for Chojuro
78.2 ZT for Darui
156.4 ZT with Sand for Gaara

Naruto the Burrito
His scaling is staying the same, 50% base outscales all the other Kage vs Fused Momo in terms of physicals, 50% SPSM KCM just dunks on Fused Momo, and then Baryon Mode coccslaps Isshiki. Dropping the possibly tier 4 stuff for now, might return to it once we figure everything else out. Also, Naruto without Kurama is just base Naruto for all intents and purposes.
156.4 ZT in base, higher with Sage Mode, 312.8 ZT with SPSM KCM, at least 3.218 YT with Baryon Mode for Naruto

Shikamaru
He restrains Otsutsuki and he is capable of crushing the heads of the other Kage and Naruto needed SPSM KCM to break out of it. Shikamaru's shadows blatantly scale to the likes of Darui via those statements.
78.2 ZT with Shadows

Hokashi
Kakashi likely scales comparable to base Koji, but considering the ambiguity of the fight, I'm fine with either dropping Kakashi or just possibly scaling him to Koji. Also by Hokage Kakashi I mean Boruto era Kakashi lol
either no or possibly 312.8 ZT for Kakashi

Urashiki
Personally, I find the "he's inconsistent" to be a complete and utter cop out when tmk the series goes out of their way to explain how he gets poisoned and nerfed throughout the arc. However, I do not care at all for Urashiki and as such am dropping him unless someone wants to drop an imgur scan dump scaling Urashiki and proving his nerfed showings aren't anti feats.

Jigen/Isshiki
His scaling stays the same, dunking on Naruto and Sasuke, and contesting Koji while extremely nerfed.
at least 156.4 ZT in base, at least 312.8 ZT with Karma, 3.128 YT with Otsutsuki form for Jigen
at least 3.128 YT for Isshiki

Cyborgs, Boruto, and Kawaki
Their scaling is all remaining the same as the OP, not really much to rehash, since 99.99999% of discussion has been "raaaa Shin and Sakura"

The changes seem ok but I'm still not convinced a bit regarding Sakura and Kurotsuchi's scaling. Nobody still has been able to scale Sakura's AP to an MS-controlled blade on motion.

And as for Kurotsuchi, scaling her to Kinshiki even with jutsu, still means you also have to scale base Boruto to Kinshiki as well since he has also consistently fought with god tiers and somehow has been able to damage them. or react to them. He even fought someone like Mu(ohnoki rip-off), and still performed better than Kurotsuchi who got negged by him. He also has lesser anti-feats ratio than Kurotsuchi.

I agree with the rest. Great job Arc.

 

[GTsek]

I've already given up on things about Sakura, since no one outside of this site takes the scales here seriously, but a question, why isshiki is have this multiplier?

 

[Tdjwo]

Regarding BSM Naruto and TCM Naruto, do you mean their profile would be like this;
Low 5-B+, possibly 5-B
Or did you mean we should pick either a Low 5-B+ or straight up 5-B?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Low 5-B+, possibly 5-B

This

Nobody still has been able to scale Sakura's AP to an MS-controlled blade on motion.

In the anime we directly see she does

 

[Tdjwo]

In the anime we directly see she does

Please can you show me the video with a time stamp, or a gif? I watched the whole fight not too long ago and I don't remember ever seeing that.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

why isshiki is have this multiplier?

Didn’t someone already link the chakra thread explaining why? Tldr we accept that if you increase your chakra by a certain amount your AP increases proportionally

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Please can you show me the video with a time stamp, or a gif? I watched the whole fight not too long ago and I don't remember ever seeing that.

Shin controls his blade arm with his MS

 

[GTsek]

Didn’t someone already link the chakra thread explaining why? Tldr we accept that if you increase your chakra by a certain amount your AP increases proportionally

Was this really accepted as a multiplier? So Naruto with Kurama's chakra has 100x multiplier?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Was this really accepted as a multiplier? So Naruto with Kurama's chakra has 100x multiplier?

I’d message Slayer for the thread tbh

 

[GTsek]

Shin controls his blade arm with his MS

The bomb papers should be 5-B too, even though she knew Shin's level, she used the papers on him and hoped it worked.

Her kunai should be too, as it tanked his irons directly.