- 10,901
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What's going on everybody? I hope ya'll are doing great.
As promised, this is the Hagoromo overhaul I've been working on. After nearly two months of grueling work, it's finally ready.
I'll keep this short and sweet. You guys know the drill by now.
So, what's on the agenda? This thread has two primary components.
With that out of the way, let's get to the second topic on our agenda.
With all of that out of the way, there's a couple more things I wanna mention.
VOTING:
Component 1:
Agree: Arc7Kuroi, DarkDragonMedeus, Ped2018, LordTracer, Shadowbokunohero, LordGriffin1000, Damage3245 (Neutral on Hags having the Biju's abilities),
Disagree:
Neutral:
Component 2:
Agree: Arc7Kuroi, DarkDragonMedeus, Ped2018, LordTracer, Shadowbokunohero, LordGriffin1000, Damage3245,
Disagree:
Neutral:
With all of that being said, let's get this party started!
As promised, this is the Hagoromo overhaul I've been working on. After nearly two months of grueling work, it's finally ready.
I'll keep this short and sweet. You guys know the drill by now.
So, what's on the agenda? This thread has two primary components.
First off, here's the sandbox that contains Hagoromo's new profile. You guys know how it goes by now. There's no real benefit to making a summary of the changes, given that I changed quite literally everything. I basically made the profile from scratch, for the most part. So, yeah, ya'll will kinda have to look through the new profile and see for yourselves. Here's the current profile for comparison.
I think it's plain to see that every single aspect of that profile has been revamped. And when I say everything, I mean everything. I even redid his Summary and Notable Attacks sections, which is a first for me lol. This took a ludicrous amount of time and effort, so I'm really hoping this thread goes smoothly, but I guess we'll have to see how it goes together.
I think it's plain to see that every single aspect of that profile has been revamped. And when I say everything, I mean everything. I even redid his Summary and Notable Attacks sections, which is a first for me lol. This took a ludicrous amount of time and effort, so I'm really hoping this thread goes smoothly, but I guess we'll have to see how it goes together.
With that out of the way, let's get to the second topic on our agenda.
If you've seen any of my previous character overhauls, you'll know that I generally don't delve into ratings and stats all that much. I usually just clean up and improve their existing justifications without changing the actual core scaling or ratings. I've mostly adhered to that precedent here as well, but with one notable exception.
I decided to propose a change for how we currently treat Six Paths Chibaku Tensei. If you look at the new profile, you'll notice that Hagoromo's AP section is formatted like this:
But before I get into that, there's one more thing I'd like to explain to those who may not know. Six Paths Chibaku Tensei was originally invoked by Hagoromo and Hamura to seal the Ten Tails. It created a massive satellite, which ended up becoming the moon. This is pretty much the Cliff Notes version of events for those not aware.
Now, the current SPCT calc, which is sitting at 5-B (78.2 Zettatons), essentially calculates the Kinetic Energy of sending the moon into orbit. It derives a reasonable timeframe for this based on the events from the anime. The calc argues that since the anime is a sort of corporate canon, and is our only available visual depiction of these events, then using it to derive a reasonable timeframe is acceptable. I agree with that logic, in principle. However, my issue lies in the fact that I do not think this calculation accurately reflects the canon lore describing how these events transpired. I will be covering why I think that is the case from two angles:
1) Why the assumptions of the calc (or more accurately, how we're currently using it) is simply not consistent with the established mechanics of Chibaku Tensei.
2) Why it's also not very supported by the canon lore.
To start with, let's cover some fundamentals of Chibaku Tensei.
Chibaku Tensei Mechanics:
Okay, so, on a fundamental level, how does Chibaku Tensei work?
To put it simply, the user produces a gravity core and then launches it up in the air. That core then proceeds to attract all nearby matter to itself. This includes the surrounding landmass, people, objects, and everything in between. All of this matter then stacks on top of each other, until it eventually forms a spherical planetoid around the core. The main point of the technique is to trap an opponent inside the formed sphere, pinning them down under the force of the core's gravity and the massive amount of rocks on top of them.
Now, there's another variant of Chibaku Tensei. It functions exactly in largely the same way as the regular one. The main difference lies in the "core". Instead of producing a black sphere that functions as the gravitational core, this variant transforms a target into the core itself, which then carries out the exact same process from the original version. So, essentially, the same as the original, but a lot more annoying to deal with since you yourself become the gravity core. Of course, Six Paths Chibaku Tensei happens to fall into the second category.
Pretty simple, right? The reason I went over the basic mechanics of the technique is so that I can make my next point.
The current calc assumes that both the formation of the moon AND the hurling of the moon into orbit are both parts of the technique. It basically assumes that the technique is invoked, the moon forms, and then just sort of automatically drifts into space via the technique until it's placed into orbit.
This is simply not very consistent with how Chibaku Tensei has been consistently portrayed. In every single usage of this technique, the core is launched some distance in the air, and then the rocks start to form around it. Notably, the core does NOT move from its initial position once it sits at rest and starts attracting nearby matter. It only moves afterwards if the Rinnegan user who cast the technique manually moves it with the Deva Path's Telekinesis. To demonstrate my points, let's have a look at every single usage of the technique in the original series.
- Pain's initial Chibaku Tensei (Chapter 439): In this example we clearly see that Pain launches the core into the air, it reaches its final position, and then begins attracting nearby matter to form the sphere. Once the sphere is fully formed, it sits in place. It does not rise, it does not fall. It's perfectly stationary.
- Edo Nagato's Chibaku Tensei (Chapter 551): Once again, the steps are exactly the same. The core is launched, it reaches its final position, stops moving, and then begins attracting nearby matter. Now, we don't see this CT reach its completion, because it is destroyed before that happens; however, we can safely assume it would've been the same as Pain's since he is the same user at the end of the day.
- Madara's "Rain Drops" (Chapter 676): In this instance, we see another recognizable pattern. Madara launches numerous cores, they do their thing and form his "rain drops", and then they just sit there in the air. They don't drop immediately. They only move and drop downwards when he moves them himself.
- Naruto and Sasuke's Six Paths Chibaku Tensei (Chapter 690): This is an important one, because it should be useful in regards to mirroring the original SPCT. It is the same exact technique after all. So, Naruto and Sasuke touch Kaguya, which transforms her into the core. Since she was already sufficiently high in the air, the moon starts forming around her immediately. We can clearly see that her initial position was not changed that much, if at all. There was no real indication of movement. She was next to the ETSB at the start, and we see that the forming moon was still next to the ETSB. The only thing that changed was that the moon continued to grow bigger around her, until it reached its final position and was nearing its final size. Again, there is no indication of upward motion here. Certainly not to the point where the CT would be launched away deep into space on its own.
- Sasuke traps the Bijuu (Chapters 692 and 696): In this example, we see more of the same. Sasuke transforms the Bijuu into gravitational cores, and forms CTs around them in a very similar manner to the SPCT. The only difference is that it's on a far smaller scale in this case. But again, the CTs form and then remain suspended in place, without moving at all on their own. They only move when Sasuke moves them himself using the Deva Path.
As you can all plainly see from these examples, the Chibaku Tensei is very consistent in its mechanics.
Gravity Core is formed > Gravity Core is launched in the air > Gravity Core reaches final position > Gravity Core attracts shit > CT forms > CT sits in place, suspended mid-air > CT is moved by its user via the Deva Path (OPTIONAL)
The technique never really veers off course when it comes to how it functions. It's very consistent in this regard.
So, I see no logical reason for us to assume that Hamura and Hagoromo's SPCT functioned any differently. That kind of claim would be unsubstantiated and completely contradicted by how the technique's been consistently portrayed.
Where does that leave us? To put it simply, the feats of creating the moon via forming a CT and moving the moon into orbit should be treated as different and separate feats.
Now, to further build our argument here, let's look at how the lore treats this whole mess. I believe the lore greatly supports my conclusion here.
The Lore Behind Hagoromo "Creating the Moon":
So, we need to attempt establishing a timeline here.
Our starting off point is obviously going to be Hagoromo and Hamura using SPCT to seal the Ten Tails away.
Okay, then what? Well, for some unknown reason, Hagoromo then decided to seal the Juubi inside of himself. Maybe he believed it would be unleashed again unless he did this, or perhaps he thought it was vulnerable while inside the CT. Regardless, his motivation is irrelevant here. The important thing is that we know it happened.
Then time passed, and he had his sons. He was inspired by Asura to create the 9 Bijuu, which was achieved by separating the Ten Tails' "body" from its "chakra". The chakra of the Juubi was used to create the Bijuu, while the body of the Ten Tails became a lifeless husk, which we know as the Gedo Mazo. Hagoromo then raised the Bijuu inside him for a while, as a sort of father figure, and taught them many things in hopes of guiding them towards a better future.
After some time, he decided to remove the Bijuu from inside him and disperse them into the world, so they may finally start their lives.
Now, as most of you probably know, when a Jinchuriki is stripped of their Bijuu, they instantly die. However, in the case of a Juubi Jinchuriki things are different. The Gedo Mazo keeps them alive due to its immense life-force. They are still extremely weakened, however. This was the case for Hagoromo. Why is this important? Well, it's relevant because it proves that he had the Gedo Mazo inside him this whole time. It wasn't sitting around in the moon this whole time, like many people think.
Then what happened? Hagoromo then went on to extract the Gedo Mazo from inside himself, and finally sealed it inside the CT. He then proceeded to hurl the moon into the sky, where it currently sits and orbits the Earth.
Now, it's time for us to see how Hamura fits into all of this.
We know a few facts about Hamura. Luckily, they all fit the narrative I laid out here perfectly.
So, we know that Hamura decided to go live on the moon in order to stand guard over the Gedo Mazo. It'd make a lot of sense for this to have happened later in their lives, rather than immediately after the SPCT is used as the anime timeline implies. Let's get into why that is.
So, we know that Hamura did not go on the moon on his own. He took the entire "Otsutsuki clan" with him on the moon, where they formed their own society and whatnot. We also know that part of his bloodline remained on Earth, which eventually became the Hyuga clan. Neither of those things would be possible if he just immediately went into space. He clearly spent a significant portion of time on Earth, long enough to establish a whole ass bloodline. The Databook also states that Hagoromo relinquished leadership of the clan to Hamura, meaning that he lead it for a time. All of these factors support the logic that the whole going to the moon stuff happened later on, rather than right away.
This interpretation is also fits with the version of events presented to us in The Last. The movie pretty much confirms that the sequence of events happened exactly as I described it. Hags, much later in his life, divided the Juubi's chakra from its body, created the Bijuu, and then sealed the Gedo Mazo in the moon. Hamura then went to the moon to watch over it. This makes sense as well, since we see the Gedo Mazo is all chained up in the moon's core. It was clearly put there after the fact. There's no way it would look like this after being sealed using SPCT.
Conclusions:
Okay, so that was a lot of information. I apologize for the length of this portion. It's just that this part of the lore is EXTREMELY VAGUE and hard to decipher. It's riddled with seemingly contradictory statements, and is just really hard to figure out. It took a lot of research and time to make things this coherent, so I wanted to make sure I cover every detail as best I can. I hope that helped put things into perspective for you all.
With that being said, what are the takeaways? I believe this version of events is extremely consistent with both the mechanics of Chibaku Tensei, the lore, and the timeline of events. I cannot say the same for the calc based on the anime. That calc is fine in a vacuum, and I am fine with most of its assumptions on their own, including its usage of the anime. However, the manga and databooks are our primary and secondary canon sources respectively. They inherently rank above the anime. And the anime's portrayal of events blatantly contradicts them, as I've shown.
So, in the end, I am advocating for my version of events to be accepted as the "correct one", for our purposes. This would entail us no longer using the 5-B calc.
Now, @Arc7Kuroi was kind enough to make this version for me, which was accepted math-wise.
Using this calc in the way that I have on the profile solves a ton of issues we've had due to the 5-B calc, in addition to the problems I already laid out.
For starters, it creates consistency. During the previous God Tier thread, a lot of people had issues with the OG SPCT being rated so much higher than Naruto and Sasuke's version, even though they are supposed to be the exact same technique used against the exact same person. Even if we account for the original being powered by two separate people (Hamura and Hagoromo) instead of just one (Hagoromo), the difference was still too large for that to make sense.
With this, the moon creation aspect of the calc will be the same for both versions. Again, this makes sense because it's the same exact move, lore-wise.
As for the moon moving, it's now Low 5-B (845.9 Exatons), which is also far more consistent with the other feats in the verse. It fits together so nicely.
Additionally, it makes sense for Hagoromo to scale to this value via Telekinesis, since "creating the moon" and "hurling the moon into the sky" have always been intrinsic parts of HIS lore. It's always something that's been attributed to him and him alone. With my interpretation of events, we literally get to have our cake and eat it too. We preserve the fact that Hamura and Hagoromo technically "created the moon" together via SPCT. But we can still retain Hagoromo's lore because him sending it to the sky and it becoming what everyone knows as "the moon" can still count as "creating the moon", in a sense. He made it what it is, if that makes sense. Your average joe would logically attribute this feat to him because he's the one who made it what it is. It also fits with the whole "created the moon on his deathbed" narrative, since he sent it into space while extremely weakened.
Additionally, Hagoromo's the only one of the brothers with the ability to do this as far as we know. His Deva Path grants him the ability to do this, Hamura has no such ability to our knowledge. The stuff with the Tenseigan also only happened on the moon, so after the moon was already put into orbit.
Not to mention, Hagoromo also has precedent for doing this kind of thing, since he sent a meteor into orbit around the planet on another occasion. It just makes too much sense.
How does this affect things? It's pretty simple. All SPCT users will scale to around 400 Exatons via SPCT. Hagoromo gets Low 5-B (845.9 Exatons) via Telekinesis. All versions of Hagoromo would scale to this, since he did it while extremely weakened. That's about it.
I decided to propose a change for how we currently treat Six Paths Chibaku Tensei. If you look at the new profile, you'll notice that Hagoromo's AP section is formatted like this:
Instead of this:
So why the big change? What happened to the 5-B calc? Why did you separate his rating with SPCT and Telekinesis? All of your burning questions will soon be answered. I know I always say it's a bad idea to do a stat revision for a single character, because it can end up affecting many other profiles. However, in this case, the proposed change will only affect two characters at most, since we no longer scale the God Tiers to the Six Paths Chibaku Tensei calc.
But before I get into that, there's one more thing I'd like to explain to those who may not know. Six Paths Chibaku Tensei was originally invoked by Hagoromo and Hamura to seal the Ten Tails. It created a massive satellite, which ended up becoming the moon. This is pretty much the Cliff Notes version of events for those not aware.
Now, the current SPCT calc, which is sitting at 5-B (78.2 Zettatons), essentially calculates the Kinetic Energy of sending the moon into orbit. It derives a reasonable timeframe for this based on the events from the anime. The calc argues that since the anime is a sort of corporate canon, and is our only available visual depiction of these events, then using it to derive a reasonable timeframe is acceptable. I agree with that logic, in principle. However, my issue lies in the fact that I do not think this calculation accurately reflects the canon lore describing how these events transpired. I will be covering why I think that is the case from two angles:
1) Why the assumptions of the calc (or more accurately, how we're currently using it) is simply not consistent with the established mechanics of Chibaku Tensei.
2) Why it's also not very supported by the canon lore.
To start with, let's cover some fundamentals of Chibaku Tensei.
Chibaku Tensei Mechanics:
Okay, so, on a fundamental level, how does Chibaku Tensei work?
To put it simply, the user produces a gravity core and then launches it up in the air. That core then proceeds to attract all nearby matter to itself. This includes the surrounding landmass, people, objects, and everything in between. All of this matter then stacks on top of each other, until it eventually forms a spherical planetoid around the core. The main point of the technique is to trap an opponent inside the formed sphere, pinning them down under the force of the core's gravity and the massive amount of rocks on top of them.
Now, there's another variant of Chibaku Tensei. It functions exactly in largely the same way as the regular one. The main difference lies in the "core". Instead of producing a black sphere that functions as the gravitational core, this variant transforms a target into the core itself, which then carries out the exact same process from the original version. So, essentially, the same as the original, but a lot more annoying to deal with since you yourself become the gravity core. Of course, Six Paths Chibaku Tensei happens to fall into the second category.
Pretty simple, right? The reason I went over the basic mechanics of the technique is so that I can make my next point.
The current calc assumes that both the formation of the moon AND the hurling of the moon into orbit are both parts of the technique. It basically assumes that the technique is invoked, the moon forms, and then just sort of automatically drifts into space via the technique until it's placed into orbit.
This is simply not very consistent with how Chibaku Tensei has been consistently portrayed. In every single usage of this technique, the core is launched some distance in the air, and then the rocks start to form around it. Notably, the core does NOT move from its initial position once it sits at rest and starts attracting nearby matter. It only moves afterwards if the Rinnegan user who cast the technique manually moves it with the Deva Path's Telekinesis. To demonstrate my points, let's have a look at every single usage of the technique in the original series.
- Pain's initial Chibaku Tensei (Chapter 439): In this example we clearly see that Pain launches the core into the air, it reaches its final position, and then begins attracting nearby matter to form the sphere. Once the sphere is fully formed, it sits in place. It does not rise, it does not fall. It's perfectly stationary.
- Edo Nagato's Chibaku Tensei (Chapter 551): Once again, the steps are exactly the same. The core is launched, it reaches its final position, stops moving, and then begins attracting nearby matter. Now, we don't see this CT reach its completion, because it is destroyed before that happens; however, we can safely assume it would've been the same as Pain's since he is the same user at the end of the day.
- Madara's "Rain Drops" (Chapter 676): In this instance, we see another recognizable pattern. Madara launches numerous cores, they do their thing and form his "rain drops", and then they just sit there in the air. They don't drop immediately. They only move and drop downwards when he moves them himself.
- Naruto and Sasuke's Six Paths Chibaku Tensei (Chapter 690): This is an important one, because it should be useful in regards to mirroring the original SPCT. It is the same exact technique after all. So, Naruto and Sasuke touch Kaguya, which transforms her into the core. Since she was already sufficiently high in the air, the moon starts forming around her immediately. We can clearly see that her initial position was not changed that much, if at all. There was no real indication of movement. She was next to the ETSB at the start, and we see that the forming moon was still next to the ETSB. The only thing that changed was that the moon continued to grow bigger around her, until it reached its final position and was nearing its final size. Again, there is no indication of upward motion here. Certainly not to the point where the CT would be launched away deep into space on its own.
- Sasuke traps the Bijuu (Chapters 692 and 696): In this example, we see more of the same. Sasuke transforms the Bijuu into gravitational cores, and forms CTs around them in a very similar manner to the SPCT. The only difference is that it's on a far smaller scale in this case. But again, the CTs form and then remain suspended in place, without moving at all on their own. They only move when Sasuke moves them himself using the Deva Path.
As you can all plainly see from these examples, the Chibaku Tensei is very consistent in its mechanics.
Gravity Core is formed > Gravity Core is launched in the air > Gravity Core reaches final position > Gravity Core attracts shit > CT forms > CT sits in place, suspended mid-air > CT is moved by its user via the Deva Path (OPTIONAL)
The technique never really veers off course when it comes to how it functions. It's very consistent in this regard.
So, I see no logical reason for us to assume that Hamura and Hagoromo's SPCT functioned any differently. That kind of claim would be unsubstantiated and completely contradicted by how the technique's been consistently portrayed.
Where does that leave us? To put it simply, the feats of creating the moon via forming a CT and moving the moon into orbit should be treated as different and separate feats.
Now, to further build our argument here, let's look at how the lore treats this whole mess. I believe the lore greatly supports my conclusion here.
The Lore Behind Hagoromo "Creating the Moon":
So, we need to attempt establishing a timeline here.
Our starting off point is obviously going to be Hagoromo and Hamura using SPCT to seal the Ten Tails away.
Okay, then what? Well, for some unknown reason, Hagoromo then decided to seal the Juubi inside of himself. Maybe he believed it would be unleashed again unless he did this, or perhaps he thought it was vulnerable while inside the CT. Regardless, his motivation is irrelevant here. The important thing is that we know it happened.
Then time passed, and he had his sons. He was inspired by Asura to create the 9 Bijuu, which was achieved by separating the Ten Tails' "body" from its "chakra". The chakra of the Juubi was used to create the Bijuu, while the body of the Ten Tails became a lifeless husk, which we know as the Gedo Mazo. Hagoromo then raised the Bijuu inside him for a while, as a sort of father figure, and taught them many things in hopes of guiding them towards a better future.
After some time, he decided to remove the Bijuu from inside him and disperse them into the world, so they may finally start their lives.
Now, as most of you probably know, when a Jinchuriki is stripped of their Bijuu, they instantly die. However, in the case of a Juubi Jinchuriki things are different. The Gedo Mazo keeps them alive due to its immense life-force. They are still extremely weakened, however. This was the case for Hagoromo. Why is this important? Well, it's relevant because it proves that he had the Gedo Mazo inside him this whole time. It wasn't sitting around in the moon this whole time, like many people think.
Then what happened? Hagoromo then went on to extract the Gedo Mazo from inside himself, and finally sealed it inside the CT. He then proceeded to hurl the moon into the sky, where it currently sits and orbits the Earth.
Now, it's time for us to see how Hamura fits into all of this.
We know a few facts about Hamura. Luckily, they all fit the narrative I laid out here perfectly.
So, we know that Hamura decided to go live on the moon in order to stand guard over the Gedo Mazo. It'd make a lot of sense for this to have happened later in their lives, rather than immediately after the SPCT is used as the anime timeline implies. Let's get into why that is.
So, we know that Hamura did not go on the moon on his own. He took the entire "Otsutsuki clan" with him on the moon, where they formed their own society and whatnot. We also know that part of his bloodline remained on Earth, which eventually became the Hyuga clan. Neither of those things would be possible if he just immediately went into space. He clearly spent a significant portion of time on Earth, long enough to establish a whole ass bloodline. The Databook also states that Hagoromo relinquished leadership of the clan to Hamura, meaning that he lead it for a time. All of these factors support the logic that the whole going to the moon stuff happened later on, rather than right away.
This interpretation is also fits with the version of events presented to us in The Last. The movie pretty much confirms that the sequence of events happened exactly as I described it. Hags, much later in his life, divided the Juubi's chakra from its body, created the Bijuu, and then sealed the Gedo Mazo in the moon. Hamura then went to the moon to watch over it. This makes sense as well, since we see the Gedo Mazo is all chained up in the moon's core. It was clearly put there after the fact. There's no way it would look like this after being sealed using SPCT.
Conclusions:
Okay, so that was a lot of information. I apologize for the length of this portion. It's just that this part of the lore is EXTREMELY VAGUE and hard to decipher. It's riddled with seemingly contradictory statements, and is just really hard to figure out. It took a lot of research and time to make things this coherent, so I wanted to make sure I cover every detail as best I can. I hope that helped put things into perspective for you all.
With that being said, what are the takeaways? I believe this version of events is extremely consistent with both the mechanics of Chibaku Tensei, the lore, and the timeline of events. I cannot say the same for the calc based on the anime. That calc is fine in a vacuum, and I am fine with most of its assumptions on their own, including its usage of the anime. However, the manga and databooks are our primary and secondary canon sources respectively. They inherently rank above the anime. And the anime's portrayal of events blatantly contradicts them, as I've shown.
So, in the end, I am advocating for my version of events to be accepted as the "correct one", for our purposes. This would entail us no longer using the 5-B calc.
Now, @Arc7Kuroi was kind enough to make this version for me, which was accepted math-wise.
Using this calc in the way that I have on the profile solves a ton of issues we've had due to the 5-B calc, in addition to the problems I already laid out.
For starters, it creates consistency. During the previous God Tier thread, a lot of people had issues with the OG SPCT being rated so much higher than Naruto and Sasuke's version, even though they are supposed to be the exact same technique used against the exact same person. Even if we account for the original being powered by two separate people (Hamura and Hagoromo) instead of just one (Hagoromo), the difference was still too large for that to make sense.
With this, the moon creation aspect of the calc will be the same for both versions. Again, this makes sense because it's the same exact move, lore-wise.
As for the moon moving, it's now Low 5-B (845.9 Exatons), which is also far more consistent with the other feats in the verse. It fits together so nicely.
Additionally, it makes sense for Hagoromo to scale to this value via Telekinesis, since "creating the moon" and "hurling the moon into the sky" have always been intrinsic parts of HIS lore. It's always something that's been attributed to him and him alone. With my interpretation of events, we literally get to have our cake and eat it too. We preserve the fact that Hamura and Hagoromo technically "created the moon" together via SPCT. But we can still retain Hagoromo's lore because him sending it to the sky and it becoming what everyone knows as "the moon" can still count as "creating the moon", in a sense. He made it what it is, if that makes sense. Your average joe would logically attribute this feat to him because he's the one who made it what it is. It also fits with the whole "created the moon on his deathbed" narrative, since he sent it into space while extremely weakened.
Additionally, Hagoromo's the only one of the brothers with the ability to do this as far as we know. His Deva Path grants him the ability to do this, Hamura has no such ability to our knowledge. The stuff with the Tenseigan also only happened on the moon, so after the moon was already put into orbit.
Not to mention, Hagoromo also has precedent for doing this kind of thing, since he sent a meteor into orbit around the planet on another occasion. It just makes too much sense.
How does this affect things? It's pretty simple. All SPCT users will scale to around 400 Exatons via SPCT. Hagoromo gets Low 5-B (845.9 Exatons) via Telekinesis. All versions of Hagoromo would scale to this, since he did it while extremely weakened. That's about it.
With all of that out of the way, there's a couple more things I wanna mention.
When going through the profile, some of you may notice something peculiar. A ton of the abilities I'm proposing for Hags can be applied to other people as well.
This was by design. If ya'll been paying attention, my last 4 profile overhauls (Itachi, Jiraiya, Tsunade, and now Hagoromo) happen to affect a lot of people.
Itachi helps with Uchiha people to an extent, and a lot of the basic Shinobi stuff I added to him helped myself and others in our next profile revisions. Jiraiya helps with Sage Mode users. Tsunade helps with Medics. And the big man himself who we're looking at today quite literally helps everyone. A lot of the things I'm proposing today go directly into the chakra blog I'm working on with @EmperorRorepmeThree. or the Shinobi Page @Godernet is cooking up. Then we get into some of the things that, if accepted, will go straight into a ton of individual profiles. I basically revised all the 9 Bijuu, if you look at it from a certain lense. Same goes for Juubi Jinchuriki. A lot of the Otstsutsuki folk will benefit as well. Same goes for Madara and Hashirama to an extent. Same goes for Naruto and Sasuke.
I just wanted ya'll to appreciate the enormity of this project, and the planning that went into it. Thanks to the work I've been doing the past few months, a ton of revisions moving forward will be made much, much easier. But, of course, it took enormous effort to get to this point, and I couldn't be happier.
Another thing I'd like to note is that the only thing I didn't revise here is Hagoromo's Immortality and Regeneration in his Juubi Jinchuriki key. I essentially left it as is for now. This is simply because that topic has proven to be somewhat controversial, and I'd like to handle it on its own. I plan to make a dedicated thread handling that whole mess very soon. I think things will be much cleaner and more efficient that way.
Also, regarding the titles of the thread and sandbox. I almost feel embarrassed saying this, but I know how our respective fandoms can be. Clearly, it's nothing more than a harmless joke. It's just an inside joke regarding Devil Fruit users being weak to water. Hagoromo has a tool that creates a ludicrous amount of water, called the Shuigu. As you can see, the joke writes itself here. I hate having to explain jokes, but I know how people are. It is what it is. Cope, seethe, mald, etc etc.
Finally, I'd like to extend my thanks to the people who have helped me with this revision.
I'd like to thank @That_moron2 for helping me out with some of the TSB's scans and descriptions.
Massive props to @Deceived3596 for discussing and brainstorming many of the ideas and abilities used in this revision. I'd also like to thank him because I used a lot of stuff from his Shibai blog.
Many thanks to @Arc7Kuroi once again for recalcing the SPCT feat. Highly appreciated.
Finally, a big thank you to my homie who's always naked, @Wrath_Of_Itachi. He provides me with most of the novel scans that I use in these profiles. Couldn't have done it without you, buddy.
This was by design. If ya'll been paying attention, my last 4 profile overhauls (Itachi, Jiraiya, Tsunade, and now Hagoromo) happen to affect a lot of people.
Itachi helps with Uchiha people to an extent, and a lot of the basic Shinobi stuff I added to him helped myself and others in our next profile revisions. Jiraiya helps with Sage Mode users. Tsunade helps with Medics. And the big man himself who we're looking at today quite literally helps everyone. A lot of the things I'm proposing today go directly into the chakra blog I'm working on with @EmperorRorepmeThree. or the Shinobi Page @Godernet is cooking up. Then we get into some of the things that, if accepted, will go straight into a ton of individual profiles. I basically revised all the 9 Bijuu, if you look at it from a certain lense. Same goes for Juubi Jinchuriki. A lot of the Otstsutsuki folk will benefit as well. Same goes for Madara and Hashirama to an extent. Same goes for Naruto and Sasuke.
I just wanted ya'll to appreciate the enormity of this project, and the planning that went into it. Thanks to the work I've been doing the past few months, a ton of revisions moving forward will be made much, much easier. But, of course, it took enormous effort to get to this point, and I couldn't be happier.
Another thing I'd like to note is that the only thing I didn't revise here is Hagoromo's Immortality and Regeneration in his Juubi Jinchuriki key. I essentially left it as is for now. This is simply because that topic has proven to be somewhat controversial, and I'd like to handle it on its own. I plan to make a dedicated thread handling that whole mess very soon. I think things will be much cleaner and more efficient that way.
Finally, I'd like to extend my thanks to the people who have helped me with this revision.
I'd like to thank @That_moron2 for helping me out with some of the TSB's scans and descriptions.
Massive props to @Deceived3596 for discussing and brainstorming many of the ideas and abilities used in this revision. I'd also like to thank him because I used a lot of stuff from his Shibai blog.
Many thanks to @Arc7Kuroi once again for recalcing the SPCT feat. Highly appreciated.
Finally, a big thank you to my homie who's always naked, @Wrath_Of_Itachi. He provides me with most of the novel scans that I use in these profiles. Couldn't have done it without you, buddy.
VOTING:
Component 1:
Agree: Arc7Kuroi, DarkDragonMedeus, Ped2018, LordTracer, Shadowbokunohero, LordGriffin1000, Damage3245 (Neutral on Hags having the Biju's abilities),
Disagree:
Neutral:
Component 2:
Agree: Arc7Kuroi, DarkDragonMedeus, Ped2018, LordTracer, Shadowbokunohero, LordGriffin1000, Damage3245,
Disagree:
Neutral:
With all of that being said, let's get this party started!
Last edited:
Will peep
