Tenten with Broom Beard's Tools Solos One Piece (Naruto: Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki Overhaul)

[UchihaSlayer96]

Alright boys, I really, REALLY appreciate and love the good vibes ya'll are bringing to this thread. Thank you all for the laughs and the kind words.
But it's probably time to stop derailing now. I don't want this thread to end up being too bloated for other staff members to evaluate.

 

[Damage3245]

I agree with Component 2.

I both agree and am neutral on Component 1. While the new abilities section looks great, the only bit I'm hesitant on is Hagoromo having full access to the abilities of the individual Tailed Beasts. UchihaSlayer96 has already shown to me a quote that implies the nine of them were inside Hagoromo prior to him creating physical bodies for them and sending them out, but I don't think we can assume that they had all of their abilities innately from the moment they were separated from each other. They are just children essentially. They would have had the potential for a lot of their abilities like Magnetism, Magma, Acid, etc, but who knows how effective these were when they were just children or if Hagoromo could wield them (since, unfortunately, we never see him doing any fighting while as a Jinchuriki). Things like Kurama's Corruption & Empathic Manipulation too; he didn't seem like a lump of pure hatred when he was created.

This is just a really specific issue I have with it, if others think it's fine for Hagoromo to be listed with all of the Biju's abilities that they showed in the series when they're adults then I won't complain.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I agree with Component 2.

I both agree and am neutral on Component 1. While the new abilities section looks great, the only bit I'm hesitant on is Hagoromo having full access to the abilities of the individual Tailed Beasts. UchihaSlayer96 has already shown to me a quote that implies the nine of them were inside Hagoromo prior to him creating physical bodies for them and sending them out, but I don't think we can assume that they had all of their abilities innately from the moment they were separated from each other. They are just children essentially. They would have had the potential for a lot of their abilities like Magnetism, Magma, Acid, etc, but who knows how effective these were when they were just children or if Hagoromo could wield them (since, unfortunately, we never see him doing any fighting while as a Jinchuriki). Things like Kurama's Corruption & Empathic Manipulation too; he didn't seem like a lump of pure hatred when he was created.

This is just a really specific issue I have with it, if others think it's fine for Hagoromo to be listed with all of the Biju's abilities that they showed in the series when they're adults then I won't complain.

First off, thank you for the evaluation and the kind words. Greatly appreciated.

I guess to further elaborate on my reasoning behind these abilities being there. It's mainly because I don't believe their abilities are tied to their physical forms, but rather to their specific chakras. Their chakra contains their abilities. This is why when Naruto had access to even a small portion of their chakra, he had access to their individual abilities. Same goes for their previous Jinchuriki as well. They had access to some of these unique abilities solely through having access to their Biju's chakra, without the need to physically transform into their Biju. I can show you scans, but I'm pretty sure you know what I'm talking about.

Oh, and since I didn't share it with you, here's the scan I was telling you about before. It heavily implies that they spent time together, with the Sage acting as their surrogate father. Which is why they broke down in tears when he finally released them into the world and told them of his impending death.

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

I agree

But the intelligence thing seemed a little strange

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Should I be really annoying and point out minor grammar issues

 

[Spectra_Schiffer]

Should I be really annoying and point out minor grammar issues

no

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Understandable, have a great day

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Should I be really annoying and point out minor grammar issues

 

[MinatoSparkle]

 

[Godernet]

insert obligatory Slayer glazing post

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Slayer made a Midora victim

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Slayer made a Midora victim

~

 

[Godernet]

Slayer made a Midora victim

who tf cares about is Midora?

 

[That_moron2]

Obvious agree from me.

 

[Stryker861]

All looks great, nice job slayer

 

[HelloThere1089]

Slayer made a Midora victim

The one from MHA?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm sus of separating JJ Hagoromo from Ghost Hagoromo when he still does seem to have the Juubi's power, possessing the Magatama markings indicative of Six Paths Senjutsu. I mean I know he took the Juubi out of himself when he was nearing his death so it doesn't make much sense, but it also doesn't make sense for him to still have those abilities if the source of them are gone, like how Naruto lost Six Paths Senjutsu in Boruto. We also see that dying Hagoromo looks different from him in the afterlife, so he might've just been brought back to his prime in the afterlife or something.

SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke's powers definitely don't just come from Hagoromo. On his own, Naruto awakened Six Paths Senjutsu due to having the chakra of all 9 Bijuu, and his chakra cloak is a product entirely of the Bijuu charka in him. Sasuke was "given" the Rinnegan by Hagoromo, but he was given the foundations of it by having Hashirama's chakra both handed over by the guy himself and having Kabuto inject him with Hashirama cells, meaning Hagoromo probably just helped speed the process up. Sasuke also had the Sharingan before Hagoromo gave him anything, so that'd still be a factor in his strength after the Six Paths amp. And they both have ninjutsu that Hagoromo doesn't that allows them to fight in ways he couldn't, like how Naruto countered Madara's CTs with Rasenshurikens, or how Sasuke knocked Kaguya away with the Perfect Susanoo. Saying he scales to their ninjutsu is quite hard to prove, especially since chakra isn't a UES anymore. So wording it like Ghost Hagoromo's AP is simply Naruto+Sasuke is a bit omissive. Maybe saying he aided them in being able to fight Madara and Kaguya is fine, but not all on his own.

Other than that, OMG THAT'S A LOTTA ABILITIES AND SCANS GOATED JOB

 

[Damage3245]

I didn't notice that Hagoromo has Possibly Amenotejikara on it. I don't think there's any direct implication that Sasuke only possessed that ability because of Hagoromo's chakra instead of that just being a unique ability of his own Rinnegan.

EDIT: I have seen the scans in the description for it, but they don't indicate to me that Hagoromo can use it.

 

[KingogKings777]

Some stuff I disagree with also why doesn't he have sexy jutsu as an ability?

 

[KingogKings777]

Stuff disagree with on the sandbox.

Genius Intelligence

Why is it in his abilities and not intelligence part?

Transmutation and Statistics Amplification (Like all Ōtsutsuki[167], Hagoromo can transform chakra he absorbs into chakra pills and use them to increase his strength and extend his life[168])
Likely Possession and Limited Data Manipulation (Ōtsutsuki's can convert themselves into data[12] to form a mark on a target allowing him to possess[12] them overtime through overriding their genetic code with the Ōtsutsuki's genetic code[12])

I think these should be possibly mostly cause we have no confirmation that he could do these and it kinda seems like a stretch to grant him these.

Possibly Teleportation (With Amenotejikara, the user can shift themselves between spaces, causing anything currently occupying the space he targets to swap places with them.[148][246][247] This allows the user to instantly switch their position with that of another person or object within the technique's range.[246][248][249][215][250][251] It is also possible to switch the positions of other people or objects with each other.[252][215] Finally, it is also possible for the user to shift themselves or another person between empty spaces.[246][253] Hagoromo should possess this ability since it was repeatedly stated that it was a power[28] of Hagoromo's that was gifted to Sasuke through chakra[148], which is pertinent in this case because we know Hagoromo's chakra[132][161] carries his own powers and abilities within it[132][147][92][148][149])

Disagree, I don't think the evidence points to Amenotejikara being Hags ability but more of the rinnegan and six paths upgrade for Sasuke being the case and with the logic why cant Sasuke start using limbo or Madara using Amenotejikara?

Enhanced Power Nullification and Enhanced Sealing (With Six Paths Chibaku Tensei, the user(s) are capable of sealing away and nullifying their target's abilities, making it impossible to escape the seal[216][217][218])

Why is this enhanced power nullification and enhanced sealing?

Soul Manipulation and Enhanced Non-Physical Interaction (The Truth Seeking Balls are a high-density concentration of chakra.[272] As such, they should possess chakra's inherent property of being able to interact with raw chakra in its pure form.[130][131] Additionally, they can interact with and erase all forms of Ninjutsu, which includes many elementally intangible attacks.[149] They could also interact with Madara's Limbo clones, which physically exist in a separate dimension and are normally impossible to physically interact with[266])

Disagree with Soul Manip part of this.

Existence Erasure (The Truth Seeking Balls can erase Ninjutsu[149], people[140][274], space[72], matter[72], and chakra constructs like the Susano'o[275], which is a physical manifestation of their soul[276], reducing them to nothing[277][278])

Disagree with the Susano part since it kinda screams hyperbole unless you want to claim "whose rampaging soul will not settle down until it has destroyed all enemies before him" as literal shit. But should still be EE.

Biju section

Disagree with this section for the same reason's as Damage.

Possibly Time Travel (Has claimed to travel across time and through different generations in order to meet the reincarnates of his sons, as well as ascertain the course of the ninja world at large. However, it is not certain how he does achieves this, or if it's meant to be taken literally[133])

Disagree with this since it seems more like he's just waiting it out instead of time traveling.

 

[KingogKings777]

Also disagree with this being under base abilties.

Subjective Reality, Life Manipulation, Creation, Power Bestowal, Healing, Biological Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Non-Physical Interaction, Soul Manipulation, and Empathic Manipulation (Creation of All things is an ability that allows Hagoromo to "turn fantasy into reality" and "create form out of naught" using the power of Yin-Yang Release. Yin-Yang Release is comprised of Yin Release, which governs mental energies and imagination that can create form from naught, and Yang Release, which governs physical energies that can instill life into any form created. It's from these two individual powers that all Jutsu sprung forth into existence, and in fact, all forms of Ninjutsu are considered but mere fragments of Yin-Yang Release.[92] This ability is also considered the parent Jutsu for Izanagi, which is nothing more than a practical application of Creation of All Things.[93] By combining both aspects of Yin-Yang Release that the Uchiha and Senju each possessed respectively[94], which essentially recreates Hagoromo's original power[93], the Izanagi can rid the user of anything disadvantageous, such as injury or death, by casting an illusion on the user and turning their unwanted reality into a dream, illusion, or nonreality; however, anything advantageous such as the user's own attacks remain "real".[95] It's a Jutsu that ties reality and illusion together, and makes fantasy into a reality.[93] Using these principles, the Sage of Six Paths was able to create many things.[92][93] He was able to split the Ten Tails' chakra, its soul, into nine separate pieces. From these fragments, he was able to create the nine Bijū. He gave them nine distinct bodies, based upon legendary creatures[96] and Yōkai[97] he already had knowledge of in his imagination, which were inspired by Astronomy and the Star Lines game.[98] He bestowed upon them unique physiologies, personalities, abilities[99][100][101], and breathed life into them in a literal sense.[92] He also gave them emotions and the ability to empathize[102], which is notable because the Ten Tails had no emotions whatsoever[103], and was said to lack the "concept of emotions".[101] It was also said that Hagoromo created many other things using this technique[93], which likely includes his Sacred Ninja Tools. A fragment of this ability also allowed Naruto to reverse the effects of the Gate of Death and save Guy's life[104], create a brand new eye for Kakashi[105], heal Obito[106], and even temporarily halt his complete disintegration[107])

COAT was used after being a jubi jin not before iirc.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Why is this enhanced power nullification

because it can powernull people with resistances to power null

 

[Padaruyos]

Hagoromo sending the moon into orbit while looking like this is insane

 

[Godernet]

Stuff disagree with on the sandbox.

Why is it in his abilities and not intelligence part?

it goes in both apparently

I think these should be possibly mostly cause we have no confirmation that he could do these and it kinda seems like a stretch to grant him these.

considering these are just lineage-based abilities that all Otsutsuki have to the point that even those with a small part of an Otsutsuki's DNA like Kawaki and Pre-Otsutsukified Boruto are capable of it using, it's more than likely that a Half-Otsutsuki like Hags can also use these abilities than not.

there'd need to be some evidence or something that could suggest the contrary that warrants skepticism to do a possibly.

rather than "hmm it's never directly stated tho."

Why is this enhanced power nullification and enhanced sealing?

because they're greater variants of power null and sealing than other types of power null and sealing Hags already has

Disagree with the Susano part since it kinda screams hyperbole unless you want to claim "whose rampaging soul will not settle down until it has destroyed all enemies before him" as literal shit. But should still be EE.

disregarding the statement, which is only being used as supporting, the Susanoo is a manifestation of a Uchiha's chakra which is synonymous with their soul anyways.

if you wanna disprove what this statement implies you'd have to disprove chakra being synonymous with the soul rather than just calling it hyperbolic just cause.

Disagree with this since it seems more like he's just waiting it out instead of time traveling.

"Each time I cross time" and "I cross generations" doesn't really imply he's just sitting somewhere waiting it out.

but the possibility of skepticism is why it's only a possibly rating. since there's no overwhelming evidence one way or the other.

 

[LordGinSama]

rather than "hmm it's never directly stated tho."

Hmmm its never directly stated tho

 

[Padaruyos]

I think these should be possibly mostly cause we have no confirmation that he could do these and it kinda seems like a stretch to grant him these.

These are race based abilities. Not giving this is like not giving a Saiyan character Accelerated Development.

 

[KingogKings777]

These are race based abilities. Not giving this is like not giving a Saiyan character Accelerated Development.

They raced based?

 

[KingogKings777]

it goes in both apparently

Huh kinda weird but okay.

considering these are just lineage-based abilities that all Otsutsuki have to the point that even those with a small part of an Otsutsuki's DNA like Kawaki and Pre-Otsutsukified Boruto are capable of it using, it's more than likely that a Half-Otsutsuki like Hags can also use these abilities than not.
there'd need to be some evidence or something that could suggest the contrary that warrants skepticism to do a possibly.
rather than "hmm it's never directly stated tho."

ok

because they're greater variants of power null and sealing than other types of power null and sealing Hags already has

such as?

disregarding the statement, which is only being used as supporting, the Susanoo is a manifestation of a Uchiha's chakra which is synonymous with their soul anyways.
if you wanna disprove what this statement implies you'd have to disprove chakra being synonymous with the soul rather than just calling it hyperbolic just cause.

If we disregarding the statement what's the point of this being a point?

"Each time I cross time" and "I cross generations" doesn't really imply he's just sitting somewhere waiting it out.
but the possibility of skepticism is why it's only a possibly rating. since there's no overwhelming evidence one way or the other.

ok, plus just saw the last few words too.

 

[Godernet]

such as?

TSOs power nulls and Six Paths characters resist those, yet SPCT works on people with those resistances.

and Hags has sealing via his tools and regular CTs but SPCT specifically is noted as being impossible to escape.

If we disregarding the statement what's the point of this being a point?

because it's still good support in the context of chakra ~ soul.

the statement itself matters less than the consistency it adds.

and there's nothing wrong with more consistency.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Fully agreed with both components, great work my man

 

[karo_senpaii]

Why is this enhanced power nullification and enhanced sealing?

SPCT doesn't just seal the target it also cuts off their power. You can see the seals cover kaguya rinne sharingan before she was sealed. This also makes sense why she can't break out herself

 

[KingogKings777]

SPCT doesn't just seal the target it also cuts off their power. You can see the seals cover kaguya rinne sharingan before she was sealed. This also makes sense why she can't break out herself

TSOs power nulls and Six Paths characters resist those, yet SPCT works on people with those resistances.

and Hags has sealing via his tools and regular CTs but SPCT specifically is noted as being impossible to escape.

Ah okay.

 

[KingogKings777]

Wouldn't the soul manipulation be energy manipulation instead in certain parts?

Soul Manipulation is the ability to interact with one's soul or the souls of others. This ability ranges from being able to project the power of one's soul outward, grasping and ripping the souls of others out of their bodies, outright consuming souls to gain power, among other applications.

The ability to manipulate energy. One of the most ubiquitous and versatile abilities found throughout fiction. It allows use of energy for various purposes, particularly for attack, defense, or improvement of performance. Includes manipulation of both internal and external energy.

Possible Uses​

• Obtaining superhuman physical characteristics (or imitation thereof)
• Barriers
• Energy beams
• Manipulation of different types of energies (spiritual, magical, thermal, kinetic, etc.)
• Manipulation of the energy of an opponent
• Energy conversion from one form to another (such as thermal to electrical, spiritual into kinetic, etc.)
• Conversion of an energy into material objects
• Conversion of an energy into information
• Perception of the world outside of the usual five senses, including direct energy sensing of those concealing their presence
• Aura creation (explosive, overwhelming, etc.)
• Energy Absorption
• Effects on the mind and/or soul of the enemy
• Reality Warping

 

[Godernet]

Wouldn't the soul manipulation be energy manipulation instead in certain parts?

it's both

since chakra is the soul it would be soul manip inherently by the definition.

And since it's an internal energy that can be manipulated for augmentation, energy beams, barriers, etc. it would also be energy manip.

 

[KingogKings777]

since chakra is the soul it would be soul manip inherently by the definition.

But it's not though? There is certain abilties/powers used that are soul manip but chakra itself ain't really soul manip. Examples of soul manip would be COAT, Death reaper seal, ghost jutsu used by that one dude Tsunade liked, 2-3 rinnagen abilities, edo tensei, karma. Even the scans used say its mental over soul. Chakra hasn't done any of the following things.

interact with one's soul or the souls of others. This ability ranges from being able to project the power of one's soul outward, grasping and ripping the souls of others out of their bodies, outright consuming souls to gain power, among other applications

 

[LordGinSama]

Isn't Chakra only an aspect of the Soul and not the actual soul itself. After all whenever Nard got his soul yanked out he didn't scream out "my chakra!"

Also doesn't the soul itself literally produce chakra? If Chakra were the soul itself then I'm pretty sure Nard healing Guy after he ran out of Chakra would be low godly. Shinobi can also restore Chakra by mediating and shit so I don't think the Chakra is literally the soul.I

 

[KingogKings777]

Isn't Chakra only an aspect of the Soul and not the actual soul itself. After all whenever Nard got his soul yanked out he didn't scream out "my chakra!"

Also doesn't the soul itself literally produce chakra? If Chakra were the soul itself then I'm pretty sure Nard healing Guy after he ran out of Chakra would be low godly. Shinobi can also restore Chakra by mediating and shit so I don't think the Chakra is literally the soul.I

iirc chakra is physical + mental from the official scans and only says spiritual once but then just says mental all other times.

 

[LordGinSama]

Yeah Chakra is a combination of several types of energy iirc. Mental, spiritual and physical. But I don't think that's enough to say that simply because the energy system has soul manipulation aspects means that the chakra is the soul itself.

 

[Godernet]

But it's not though? There is certain abilties/powers used that are soul manip but chakra itself ain't really soul manip. Examples of soul manip would be COAT, Death reaper seal, ghost jutsu used by that one dude Tsunade liked, 2-3 rinnagen abilities, edo tensei, karma. Even the scans used say its mental over soul. Chakra hasn't done any of the following things.

If chakra = the soul, then the act of manipulating your chakra to augment your body or transmute it into jutsu, or even disrupt its flow to dispel genjutsu is manipulating your life force/soul in various ways,

Tbh I’d wait the Chakra Blog Slayer has planned that goes into this in greater detail.

Isn't Chakra only an aspect of the Soul and not the actual soul itself.

There are actually a lot of statements that almost explicitly equate chakra to the soul.

Along with the supporting evidence of how jutsus work it’s actually very blatant.

After all whenever Nard got his soul yanked out he didn't scream out "my chakra!"

They’re used interchangeably

For example, When Madara’s soul reattached itself to his Edo Tensei body, it’s referred to as his chakra.

Also doesn't the soul itself literally produce chakra?

No

If Chakra were the soul itself then I'm pretty sure Nard healing Guy after he ran out of Chakra would be low godly.

A lot of stuff is outdated so who knows.

Shinobi can also restore Chakra by mediating and shit

They also die if they try to pull too much. There’s more to chakra mechanically than just meditating to restore it. And even then being able to restore life force doesn’t disqualify it from being soul Manip

Yeah Chakra is a combination of several types of energy iirc. Mental, spiritual and physical. But I don't think that's enough to say that simply because the energy system has soul manipulation aspects means that the chakra is the soul itself.

there’s a lot more to it mechanically than just this.

I’d wait for Slayer to go over it when he updates his chakra blog in the future, he’ll probably go over the mechanics of it all in greater detail.

 

[KingogKings777]

Tbh I’d wait the Chakra Blog Slayer has planned that goes into this in greater detail.

Okay.