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Gonna be honest you analogy went over my head and all I want now is diet coke.
So senjutsu would = True magic then cause it seems what those two are now
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Asta vs Hagoromo Otsutsuki - Anti-Magic GG vs COAT GG
- Thread starter Deceived3596
- Start date
Godernet
He/Him- 2,363
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Senjutsu would be true magic mixed with Ki
Godernet
He/Him- 2,363
- 2,954
both energies birthed from life force that can be used for augmentation, energy manip, and additional abilities.
sounds the same to me
i know
it does
the physical and mental energies that make up chakra exist by you existing, living, breathing, and thinking.
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Technically mages relase their magic with ki. Even so,asta still nullify their abilities
Godernet
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your link didnt work.
also Ki is life force yet people don't just die or have their life force negged when Asta touches them with his swords.
also if Ki itself could be negated why can Asta actively use it while covered in Anti-Magic in his forms?
if what you're saying is true it sounds more like Asta can just neg the magical parts of a mages Ki usage rather than the Ki itself.
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so tehnically, juubi,s jinchuriki invul to physicall atttack like kenjutsu or taijutsu? zetten just amp their attack to boost magical power isnt like ninjutsu who projection energy
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And what makes you think the ability still functions with only “life force”. Cuz you’re forgetting the fact that nature energy will get erased.
Look I’ll just respond to your longer post tomorrow.
Godernet
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can you show in any way that it doesn't? also the senjutsu created via the mixing of the three energies is a whole new one so why would it be negged?
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What? That what doesnt what?
Godernet
He/Him- 2,363
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ah, I misunderstood what you were saying, my bad.
what I am saying is that the natural energy is transmuted with the two other energies to create a new one which is senjutsu.
can you prove that Asta can negate a new energy that is a mix of one that he can neg and two that he can't?
not to mention Hag uses the specific variant Six Paths Senjutsu which has no black clover counterpart as it only comes from being the Ten Tails Jinchuuriki so it really doesn't matter either way.
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Yeah that’s what causality negation is for. it negates the creation of senjutsu to negate senjutsu. Since nature energy is involved in what causes senjutsu.
So yeah Senjutsu won’t even exist without nature energy.
So yeah Senjutsu won’t even exist without nature energy.
Godernet
He/Him- 2,363
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even if you argue it somehow negs the process of creating senjutsu inside his body(which is pretty generous tbh), that still doesnt matter to Hagaromo's Six Path Senjutsu or even just regular ninjutsu.
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Well… How so?
Godernet
He/Him- 2,363
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ninjutsu is just made via life force or chi. and anti-magic cant neg life force
Six Path Senjutsu is created by specifically becoming the Juubi Jinchuuriki or being bestowed with the energy by Hags himself, and has no Black Clover counterpart to verse equalize.
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There is no Ying Yang without Yang.
No Senjutsu without nature energy.
No ninjutsu without chakra.
Can you explain why Six Path Senjutsu isn’t somehow Senjutsu? Is life force the only component of chakra?
No Senjutsu without nature energy.
No ninjutsu without chakra.
Can you explain why Six Path Senjutsu isn’t somehow Senjutsu? Is life force the only component of chakra?
Godernet
He/Him- 2,363
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I dont think you read my earlier comment but
Chakra is Life Force
Ninjutsu is the combatative usage of chakra aka life force.
If Asta can't negate Life Force energy then he can't neg normal ninjutsu or genjutsu at all.
While Senjutsu is basically external natural energy that can be absorbed by a sage that is limited.
Six Paths Senjutsu is a unique internal energy that permanently resides in the body of a Ten Tails jinchuuriki or descendant of Kaguya (or Hagaromo if he gives it to you.) Almost like a juiced hereditary energy source that can only come from the Ten-Tails and those who have come in contact with its power and is completely inaccessibly to anyone else even in verse.
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So chakra is made out of mental and physical energy. Senjutsu is that plus nature energy. Six Path senjutsu is just stronger senjutsu along with being able to use more abilities and some knowledge. If someone uses up all their chakra they die.
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Mental and physical energy? the physical energy isn’t life force and it’s equalized with basic mana. Nature mana is equalized with nature energy. Mental energy (is supposed to be spiritual energy iirc) should be the life force.
As a result, Ninjutsus and Senjutsu is just Magic and True Magic.
Godernet
He/Him- 2,363
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physical(body) and mental energy(mind) are both a part of the life force in Nard.
and no they don't equate to mana like natural energy does which is fundamentally different in Nard than life force.
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I don’t like asking for elaboration all the time. You can’t just say both physical energy and mental energy are life forces and somehow expect me to take that at face value when at the end of the day they’re just supernatural energies.
I don’t even believe that chakra is life force if living humans existed before chakra was even created. Even when mages run out of chakra they don’t die unless in unique cases.
I don’t even believe that chakra is life force if living humans existed before chakra was even created. Even when mages run out of chakra they don’t die unless in unique cases.
Godernet
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i mean everything I've said is also on the chakra mechanics page on the verse page but i can send a bunch of scans if you want
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Send whichever if you won’t elaborate on the claim.
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It a pain to explain. Stamina and chakra though in boruto/later in naruto become interchangeable or that just drop the stamina part and call it chakra all the time.
That was retconned with Boruto everyone/all life has chakra iirc and that's why the aliens go planet to planet
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Isn't the chakra mechanics page out of date now with some of the recent changes to UES and stuff?
Godernet
He/Him- 2,363
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this is a misconception.
Chakra always existed, Hagaromo spread the teaching of ninshu to the general world in an attempt to unite the world which allowed them to access it
any shinobi will die if it runs out of chakra.
Sakura explaining that chakra exists in every cell of the human body and is both the physical and mental energy that makes up a living being in Naruto
Databook explaining all living beings have spiritual(mental) and physical energy
Madara explaining how humanity learned to use their inner physical and mental energy to produce ninjutsu
Kakashi literally dying from running out of chakra.
Kakashi explaining to Sasuke that he'll die if he runs out of chakra.
a translated Databook explaining that Chakra is transmuted stamina which is just mental + physical energy
Pa explaining to Naruto how Ninjutsu works differently compared to how senjutsu works
lmk if you need more scans for anything specific ill keep adding to this comment in the meantime.
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Godernet
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it is out of date but the UES stuff doesnt change anything
nor will the updated chakra blog change any of the mental and physical energy stuff for the negative.
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It's not. The page never claimed that chakra was a UES, because UES standards didn't even exist at the time. All that page does is explain how chakra is used to amplify physical abilities, which is still valid. People always just misinterpreted my blog and used it to fit whatever they wanted without properly reading or understanding it.
That being said, it does still need to be improved a bit, and some things need to be cleaned up/slightly changed. I may do that later if I have the time, but in essence, nothing really changed regarding its original purpose and intent.
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Isn't that, yk, reliant on Asta having a specific sword? What stops Hagoromo from just snatching it with ameno?
Kazuma_kuwabara
She/Her- 4,464
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Naamah (Black Clover)
Naamah (ナハマー, Nahamā?) is a supporting antagonist in the Spade Kingdom Raid Arc of Black Clover. He is one of the Supreme Devils connected to the Tree of Qliphoth and resides on the first level of the Underworld, alongside his twin, Lilith. Tier: High 6-A | High 6-A Key: Naamah | Fused with...
vsbattles.fandom.com
, Regeneration (High while turned into fire. Can Regenerate his body from nearby flames)
Asta (Post-Timeskip)
Asta was left at an orphanage as an infant on the outskirts of the Clover Kingdom alongside another baby named Yuno. Excitable and outgoing, he dreams of becoming the Magic Emperor, the greatest mage in the kingdom. However, Asta is one of the rare few, if not the only one, to be born without...
vsbattles.fandom.com
Magical Regeneration Negation: (High; Prevented Naamah from regenerating.)
Thank you for finding an error in Asta final saga page
Godernet
He/Him- 2,363
- 2,954
I gotchuNaamah (Black Clover)
Naamah (ナハマー, Nahamā?) is a supporting antagonist in the Spade Kingdom Raid Arc of Black Clover. He is one of the Supreme Devils connected to the Tree of Qliphoth and resides on the first level of the Underworld, alongside his twin, Lilith. Tier: High 6-A | High 6-A Key: Naamah | Fused with...
, Regeneration (High while turned into fire. Can Regenerate his body from nearby flames)
Asta (Post-Timeskip)
Asta was left at an orphanage as an infant on the outskirts of the Clover Kingdom alongside another baby named Yuno. Excitable and outgoing, he dreams of becoming the Magic Emperor, the greatest mage in the kingdom. However, Asta is one of the rare few, if not the only one, to be born without...
Magical Regeneration Negation: (High; Prevented Naamah from regenerating.)
Thank you for finding an error in Asta final saga page
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@KingogKings777
Was that really just casually retconned for an otsusuki plotline…
Well just because all life have chakra doesn’t mean chakra is life…I don’t even want to mention the fact that characters in boruto are still capable of running out of chakra… Chakra is just needed to carry on living thanks to boruto. Before boruto stamina was needed to be drained. At the end of the day it’s supernatural energy used to perform actions identical to magic. Is there anything that states chakra is life force?
Similar to mana in BC, taking away all the mana can sometimes lead to death if the mage isn’t careful. According to Kakashi in the scan @Godernet sent running out of chakra can lead to death in some cases. I’m guessing boruto retconned the part where stamina also needs to be drained.
It’s a pain to understand as well cuz characters still run out of chakra in boruto and they don’t die.Or was that retconned as well… are characters in boruto incapable of running out of chakra? I doubt. Chakra is probably just the new stamina in boruto.
Edit: seems like Godernet is implying that end of Naruto and boruto are incapable of running out of chakra or there’s a misconception somewhere
None of this directly says Chakra is life force. I’m letting you know I need scans of that now.
At the end of the day that was just what you interpreted from “no chakra = dying”. When it’s context can be interpreted based on the scan @KingogKings777 sent. I.e. stamina + chakra = 0 means death.
Physical and Spiritual energies are supernatural energies. Therefore Physical energy is equivalent to the mana that exist in the body while spiritual energy is equivalent to Ki in BC. Chakra production is somewhat similar to the process of incorperating Ki into Mana to produce magic in BC. (Our SBA page says the systems have to be somewhat similar - the only difference is that BC treats is as a massive boost if Ki is mixed with a mana and converted to magic power- but even if you personally want it to be exactly the same ~ which doesn’t matter ~ physical energy is still mana and Asta will simply negate chakra via causality manipulation)
Before Boruto retconned chakra mechanics (effectively making “stamina” as “chakra” and confirming physical and mental energy being supernatural energies of that wasn’t clear already). Kakashi in that scan was dying due to stamina and chakra running out, not just chakra (you can see he is obviously exhausted and hurt from battle). Did you forget using chakra also uses stamina prior to boruto? This was also what Kakashi meant in another one of your scans that by “you could die if you’re not careful”.
The rest of your scans are just explanations on how supernatural energies are involved in the creation of chakra internally.
Yeah like teleportation is gonna work through an anti magic force field created by said sword completely coated in anti magic.
Edit: I’m going to bed please… I’ll respond tomorrow morning.
Well just because all life have chakra doesn’t mean chakra is life…
Similar to mana in BC, taking away all the mana can sometimes lead to death if the mage isn’t careful. According to Kakashi in the scan @Godernet sent running out of chakra can lead to death in some cases. I’m guessing boruto retconned the part where stamina also needs to be drained.
It’s a pain to understand as well cuz characters still run out of chakra in boruto and they don’t die.
Edit: seems like Godernet is implying that end of Naruto and boruto are incapable of running out of chakra or there’s a misconception somewhere
None of this directly says Chakra is life force. I’m letting you know I need scans of that now.
At the end of the day that was just what you interpreted from “no chakra = dying”. When it’s context can be interpreted based on the scan @KingogKings777 sent. I.e. stamina + chakra = 0 means death.
Physical and Spiritual energies are supernatural energies. Therefore Physical energy is equivalent to the mana that exist in the body while spiritual energy is equivalent to Ki in BC. Chakra production is somewhat similar to the process of incorperating Ki into Mana to produce magic in BC. (Our SBA page says the systems have to be somewhat similar - the only difference is that BC treats is as a massive boost if Ki is mixed with a mana and converted to magic power- but even if you personally want it to be exactly the same ~ which doesn’t matter ~ physical energy is still mana and Asta will simply negate chakra via causality manipulation)
Before Boruto retconned chakra mechanics (effectively making “stamina” as “chakra” and confirming physical and mental energy being supernatural energies of that wasn’t clear already). Kakashi in that scan was dying due to stamina and chakra running out, not just chakra (you can see he is obviously exhausted and hurt from battle). Did you forget using chakra also uses stamina prior to boruto? This was also what Kakashi meant in another one of your scans that by “you could die if you’re not careful”.
The rest of your scans are just explanations on how supernatural energies are involved in the creation of chakra internally.
Yeah like teleportation is gonna work through an anti magic force field created by said sword completely coated in anti magic.
Edit: I’m going to bed please… I’ll respond tomorrow morning.
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And why wouldn't it? It's not like it sends some magical wave of chakra or something that can be negated. The 2 things just swap. Hell we see TSO get affected by STN teleportation 4x in the series by 4 different techniques one of which is ameno itself.
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Different kind of mechanisms, ninjutsu converts user's life force to some abilities while zetten boosts physical power to launch anti-magic/magic. By your explanation, anti-magic and magic are separate compared to chakra so hags can't absorb nor nullify it
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how did you get that...how is physical energy which is derived from your cell's energy or ATP a biological energy inside your body , which you as you have now in the present also have, comparable to a supernatural energy thats also found in nature?
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I haven't had time to respond since but I will soon.
Godernet
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except chakra also boosts physical power via taijutsu
I mean if it's not life energy then sure,
but with the AP gap outside of zetten which he could be invulnerable to, it just means Hags hold the advantage.
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Invul for what? Hago just invul from ninjutsu and asta using zetten has better ap. Zetten just boost his anti magic and anti magic isn't from asta life force
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Xinsignia1
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IIRC It would actually be the reverse from what I can tell. Ki would be the physical energy, while spiritual energy would be their internal mana. Both of these energies are manipulated to generate magical power which is a different form of energy, to perform spells, much like how chakra is generated from spiritual and physical energy to perform jutsus.
