Asta vs Hagoromo Otsutsuki - Anti-Magic GG vs COAT GG

[DavidTPPM]

Sensing Danger or incoming attacks is something that Ki can do.

Same thing about sharingans' analysis of muscle movements, ki can do that, but also analyse your mere presence or even emotional state.

Can you show me some scans for this?

Unless I'm mistaken, they are made from Chakra, I think the profiles even mentions it being made by chakra.

Edit: I was right "Truth-Seeking Balls are spheres of jet black, high density, and malleable chakra comprised of all five fundamental nature transformations"

Asta should negate it, and it being power null itself won't work on Asta because of his pnull resistance.

Whether they're made of chakra or not matters why exactly? And Asta resisting power null doesn't help. Hagoromo also resists TSOs power null
and so does Kaguya who can't resist SPCT btw.
Does Astas power null specifically null other power null? If not then I don't see why would it negate TSO.

Basically, he can revert Causality to remove effects of spells as if they were never casted in the first place. He broke through Paralysis and Restraining techniques with it several times.

And that's helping him avoid layered mind manip how exactly??? He can't exactly "revert causality" when he's mind controlled…

Asta resists Soul Manipulation too, so I'm not too sure about that. how does he cast Naraka btw?

He grabs your soul and yanks it out iirc. Also how does he resist soul manip? Because even Naruto "resisted soul manip" by grabbing his soul with his hands. Soul manip resistance is heavily context depended.

..???
Idk how the confusion happened, but Asta outright resists the abilities that ki gives, Analytical Prediction included. That's why he has the resistance on his profile in the first place

Not really how that works

 

[karo_senpaii]

I'm voting hagoromo. Now yes anti magic allows asta negate a lot of hag hax but not all.
1. Sage mode, just like Hashirama hag is able to instantly enter sage mode, sage mode on it's own is potentially a one shot amp. Against pain we see naruto completely one shot a pain body while in sage mode and then struggle to fight one when he was reverted to in Base. So hag in sage mode already has drastic speed and strength advantage.
2. His weapons. This is in character and not bloodlusted. Asta will gladly say his name if hag asks for it and it won't be long before asta says his favourite phrase "I'm going to be the wizard king" or "imma surpass my limits" once he does that it is over.
3. Tso: yes tso are made of chakra, the 5 natures but yin-yang seems to function quite differently than the other 5 nature releases. They seem tied more for example yin with life force. I don't think asta has the ability to negate life force. And also if recall solid objects made from magic doesn't asta cut them as opposed to erase them? All in all the moment they touch him he would be deconstructed or just erased.
4. Mind Manipulation- hag has layered Mind Manipulation, asta has resistance but I don't think it is layered.
5. Hag can also outlast him, he can continously heal himself and has the energy to fight someone stronger than him for months. He already has the speed and ap advantage so this isn't an issue.
6. The six paths of pain. The pain that fires projectiles would be hard to deal with as they are homing missiles which asta cannot negate.
The naraka path is also an issue that if asta is caught in it's over
Hag also has acces to summoning that make him undetectable to people with advanced sensory capabilities like sage mode
7. Hag has access to several bfr he can use on asta and with sasuke amenotejikara he can easily accomplish this.
8. Hag on his profile has the ability to understand abilties and with the recent confirmation that anti magic is just another source of power hag could potentially absorb it, and understand how it works and how to use it giving him a bigger boost.

There are much more win cons for hag but I think this is fine for now.

Oh lastly hag lifting strength with telekinesis is enough to potentially turn asta to mush

 

[DavidTPPM]

Hag has access to several bfr he can use on asta and with sasuke amenotejikara he can easily accomplish this.

Completely forgot about BFR tbh. Yeah Hagoromo slams lol

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yall are really hell bent on listing haxes without regard for is actually being used in character over the course of a fight or the fact that Asta isn’t just going to stand there and let him try out every single one of his hax till one works out.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

its layered powernull, it effects people who are resistant to Powernull

and how many layers is it? And what type of power null is it? Chakra based?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Yall are really hell bent on listing haxes without regard for is actually being used in character over the course of a fight or the fact that Asta isn’t just going to stand there and let him try out every single one of his hax till one works out.

That's not what I did though. I prefixed by showing hag having a very advantageous speed amp. And tbh I just said some stuff in character that asta would do

 

[Arnoldstone18]

That's not what I did though. I prefixed by showing hag having a very advantageous speed amp. And tbh I just said some stuff in character that asta would do

Yeah but what will Hags actually use and start with in character. These are important questions that decide everything in a match cuz Zetten is like… a thing.

Anyways I guess I’ll have a discussion with you. It’ll take me a while to reply to it tho.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Yeah but what will Hags actually use and start with in character. These are important questions that decide everything in a match cuz Zetten is like… a thing.

Anyways I guess I’ll have a discussion with you. It’ll take me a while to reply to it tho.

The thing is with zetten asta goes to low5b which is restricted. So I don't know how you're gonna treat it.

And tbh in character all we have for hag fighting is filler against hamura and the first thing he used is sage mode. Tbh the whole point he learned it is so he could compete with kaguya.
So what I said is what is in character for him

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

The thing is with zetten asta goes to low5b which is restricted. So I don't know how you're gonna treat it.

Can be restricted to 5-C maximun AP value possible

And tbh in character all we have for hag fighting is filler against hamura and the first thing he used is sage mode. Tbh the whole point he learned it is so he could compete with kaguya.
So what I said is what is in character for him

Also the reason I don't participate here, he has 400 powers, he never fought anyone except in FILLER

So who knows what he is gonna do

 

[karo_senpaii]

Can be restricted to 5-C maximun AP value possible


Also the reason I don't participate here, he has 400 powers, he never fought anyone except in FILLER

So who knows what he is gonna do

If you restrict to maximum ap value the dude can still literally speed blitz and one shot. Can't be a match that can be added

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

If you restrict to maximum ap value the dude can still literally speed blitz and one shot. Can't be a match that can be added

This is a match to see if Asta stays in his position of 5-C strongest non smurf or not

So "can be added or not" is irrelevant

 

[karo_senpaii]

This is a match to see if Asta stays in his position of 5-C strongest non smurf or not

So "can be added or not" is irrelevant

Well I guess hag better not take a direct hit. He could match his speed in sage mode but definitely not ap.
I'd respond more later

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Sage mode, just like Hashirama hag is able to instantly enter sage mode, sage mode on it's own is potentially a one shot amp. Against pain we see naruto completely one shot a pain body while in sage mode and then struggle to fight one when he was reverted to in Base. So hag in sage mode already has drastic speed and strength advantage.

Asta has several one shot transformations that boosts his speed and power. Then you have Zetten that boosts his speed to blitz levels for one attack. Then you have Accelerated Development on top of all this.

2. His weapons. This is in character and not bloodlusted. Asta will gladly say his name if hag asks for it and it won't be long before asta says his favourite phrase "I'm going to be the wizard king" or "imma surpass my limits" once he does that it is over.

What?

I don’t understand what this means. Why would saying these things mean it’s over?

3. Tso: yes tso are made of chakra, the 5 natures but yin-yang seems to function quite differently than the other 5 nature releases. They seem tied more for example yin with life force. I don't think asta has the ability to negate life force. And also if recall solid objects made from magic doesn't asta cut them as opposed to erase them? All in all the moment they touch him he would be deconstructed or just erased.

Mana is tied to life force as well. Hence why Asta can sense life energy in them. Absorbing mana also absorbs a piece of the soul as shown in the BC movie. Life force can be converted to magic. Lastly Lucius stated the soul is linked to magic life and spirit.

Asta at this point in the series can do whatever he wants to magic. Besides the TSO just wouldn’t have an effect on him if anything due to passive aura negation. Asta can even put up a AM force field now.

4. Mind Manipulation- hag has layered Mind Manipulation, asta has resistance but I don't think it is layered.

Resistance is negation based. It’s not really about mental resistance.

5. Hag can also outlast him, he can continously heal himself and has the energy to fight someone stronger than him for months. He already has the speed and ap advantage so this isn't an issue.

Asta has regen negation.

6. The six paths of pain. The pain that fires projectiles would be hard to deal with as they are homing missiles which asta cannot negate.
The naraka path is also an issue that if asta is caught in it's over
Hag also has acces to summoning that make him undetectable to people with advanced sensory capabilities like sage mode

The missles aren’t chakra based? Also Asta has causality breakijg. So he kinda just negates Hags ability to make himself undetectable, and whatever naraka is cuz I have no idea.

7. Hag has access to several bfr he can use on asta and with sasuke amenotejikara he can easily accomplish this.

Which ones has he used in character and what are these bfrs exactly? Only teleportation type BFRs work on Asta, anything else like portals and stuff will probably get negged via various ways.

8. Hag on his profile has the ability to understand abilties and with the recent confirmation that anti magic is just another source of power hag could potentially absorb it, and understand how it works and how to use it giving him a bigger boost.

Absorbing AM could kill him considering it will negate the chakra he possesses. Although I’m skeptical about how he would understand the nature of an energy he has never seen before. That’s like expecting a BC mage to know something that shouldn’t even exist in their world.

There are much more win cons for hag but I think this is fine for now.

Oh lastly hag lifting strength with telekinesis is enough to potentially turn asta to mush

Asta isn’t getting crushed, the LS difference is comparable. (The values are less than 2x and Asta upscales from his LS value.)

 

[Epsilon_R]

its layered powernull, it effects people who are resistant to Powernull

Asta's Resistance is layered as well, but someone told me I had to remake a crt even though it's been on the profiles for years. Don't know if that's true or not so I'll leave it at that.

Regardless, Asta is still physically able to break free from it without using Anti-Magic.

 

[Epsilon_R]

Also what Arnold said. TK won't work as Asta’s is over 2.7× Hag's Lifting Strength.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Oh I didn’t even know it was over 2x… thought it was under less than 1x.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah but what will Hags actually use and start with in character.

Hagoromo was never actually shown to fight on screen as far as I'm aware. We know he wields a TSO as his main weapon and sealed Kaguya with SPCT when he was alive but again, that's alive Hagoromo meaning he didn't have like half of his win cons in his spirit ghost or Juubi Jinchuriki keys.

Given that he has genius level intellect and is a pacifist he would probably start with the simple stuff that doesn't actually deal damage, like visual genjutsu, BFR, SPCT, or sealing in general.

Asta has several one shot transformations that boosts his speed and power. Then you have Zetten that boosts his speed to blitz levels for one attack. Then you have Accelerated Development on top of all this.

Hagoromo has body flicker which is a speed blitz tier above the user. And SBA make Asta start in his strongest form so transformations shouldn't actually amp his speed. Either Hagoromo has several ways of responding to blitzing thanks to precog and teleportation. There's also his mid-high regen and incorporeality but idk how Astas soul manip and regen neg work so I'm not sure if that's going to be useful.

I don’t understand what this means. Why would saying these things mean it’s over?

His weapons seal away your "word soul" which is somehow tied to your spirit in general. Basically just soul sealing. There's also another weapon that seals the opponent even if they as much as reply to Hagoromo (but this is where the question of whether alive or ghost Hags is used comes in)

Mana is tied to life force as well. Hence why Asta can sense life energy in them. Absorbing mana also absorbs a piece of the soul as shown in the BC movie. Life force can be converted to magic. Lastly Lucius stated the soul is linked to magic life and spirit.

Asta at this point in the series can do whatever he wants to magic. Besides the TSO just wouldn’t have an effect on him if anything due to passive aura negation. Asta can even put up a AM force field now.

TSO power null themselves but also have molecular deconstruction as a side effect so even if the power nulls negate each other TSO should still have molecular deconstruction.

Resistance is negation based. It’s not really about mental resistance.

?

Asta has regen negation.

How does it work tho?

Which ones has he used in character and what are these bfrs exactly? Only teleportation type BFRs work on Asta, anything else like portals and stuff will probably get negged via various ways.

He's never fought on screen in character so we dk. He has ameno which can open portals to another dimensions so he could just open a portal and use telekinesis to throw him away.

Absorbing AM could kill him considering it will negate the chakra he possesses. Although I’m skeptical about how he would understand the nature of an energy he has never seen before. That’s like expecting a BC mage to know something that shouldn’t even exist in their world.

The databook says that the rinnegan absorbs jutsu regardless of its chakra properties into a bottomless pit. And even fodders like Pain and Nagato can absorb nature energy and kyubi chakra without issues. Nature energy having petrifying properties and kyubi chakra having corrosive poisonous properties. It's not exactly the same thing but Hagoromo should still be capable of absorbing it. Not that it matters since he can just avoid everything with ameno.

Also what win cons does Asta even have? I don't think I've seen anyone mention a single win con for him.

 

[KingogKings777]

its layered powernull, it effects people who are resistant to Powernull

Is it accepted as layered?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Please before you respond make sure whatever you respond with wouldn’t lead to me spamming “oh AM negs”… it makes the debate unnecessarily long and boring.

Also all the info you need is on the profile, this way our arguments are easy to read for all the lazy readers here

As for the mind manipulation:

?

I just checked the profile..I was wrong he has the typical resistance not anti magic based resistance. However, Asta should negate it with Liebe’s help assuming Asta’s instinctive reactions don’t allow him bring out a sword to negate it.

---

Hagoromo was never actually shown to fight on screen as far as I'm aware. We know he wields a TSO as his main weapon and sealed Kaguya with SPCT when he was alive but again, that's alive Hagoromo meaning he didn't have like half of his win cons in his spirit ghost or Juubi Jinchuriki keys.

Given that he has genius level intellect and is a pacifist he would probably start with the simple stuff that doesn't actually deal damage, like visual genjutsu, BFR, SPCT, or sealing in general.

Nothing passive aura negation + causality negation can’t handle.

Hagoromo has body flicker which is a speed blitz tier above the user. And SBA make Asta start in his strongest form so transformations shouldn't actually amp his speed. Either Hagoromo has several ways of responding to blitzing thanks to precog and teleportation. There's also his mid-high regen and incorporeality but idk how Astas soul manip and regen neg work so I'm not sure if that's going to be useful.

SBA also makes Hags start in his transformation since that’s how we’re doing it and Asta also has several ways of dealing with a blitz and teleportation such as precog and instinctive reactions. Asta also resists precog which has already been mentioned in this thread. Asta interacting with souls has also been mentioned in this thread.

His weapons seal away your "word soul" which is somehow tied to your spirit in general. Basically just soul sealing. There's also another weapon that seals the opponent even if they as much as reply to Hagoromo (but this is where the question of whether alive or ghost Hags is used comes in)

None of these work on Asta due to passive aura negation and causality breaking.

TSO power null themselves but also have molecular deconstruction as a side effect so even if the power nulls negate each other TSO should still have molecular deconstruction.

And… that also gets auto negated. TSO is fundamentally useless here.

How does it work tho?

wounds inflicted by Asta’s AM simply can’t be regenerated from.

He's never fought on screen in character so we dk. He has ameno which can open portals to another dimensions so he could just open a portal and use telekinesis to throw him away.

Asta resists telekinesis via LS or negates it with causality breaking just like he did against Ichika who was rag dolling him. Would negate the portal too.

The databook says that the rinnegan absorbs jutsu regardless of its chakra properties into a bottomless pit. And even fodders like Pain and Nagato can absorb nature energy and kyubi chakra without issues. Nature energy having petrifying properties and kyubi chakra having corrosive poisonous properties. It's not exactly the same thing but Hagoromo should still be capable of absorbing it. Not that it matters since he can just avoid everything with ameno.

Also what win cons does Asta even have? I don't think I've seen anyone mention a single win con for him.

AM isn’t a jutsu. Hag dies if he absorbs too much AM cuz much like magic, forcefully deleting chakra could kill you.

Asta’s wincon is beating him up. It’s not like a pacifist like him is skilled combat wise. Even if he got some kind of combat training I doubt he can keep up with someone as extremely skilled as Asta.

Of course one shotting with Zetten where Hags least expects

 

[Nierre]

Of course one shotting with Zetten where Hags least expects

 

[KingArthur561]

ASTA for sure, I don't think Hagoromo could use ninjutsu/gernjutsu to asta since am cloaked his body and soul. Am has a different way mechanism and Naruto verse has no pn based on energy just like am so Hagormo couldn't resist or absorb it

 

[karo_senpaii]

Asta has several one shot transformations that boosts his speed and power. Then you have Zetten that boosts his speed to blitz levels for one attack. Then you have Accelerated Development on top of all this.

Slow down. First of all zetten is restricted. No low5b keys. So not sure how we are treating it.
And what key of asta is it using. Coz if it his last key against julius he can only compete in hag already using a transformation. So this multiple transformation you are talking about I'm not sure I get you.

What?

I don’t understand what this means. Why would saying these things mean it’s over?

Because that's how the sealing ability works. Read the profile, or don’t you know the sage tools?

Mana is tied to life force as well. Hence why Asta can sense life energy in them. Absorbing mana also absorbs a piece of the soul as shown in the BC movie. Life force can be converted to magic. Lastly Lucius stated the soul is linked to magic life and spirit.

Asta at this point in the series can do whatever he wants to magic. Besides the TSO just wouldn’t have an effect on him if anything due to passive aura negation. Asta can even put up a AM force field now.

Being tied to life force≠ life force. Yin is not tied to life force, it is life force. Unless asta has life force Negation then this point is mute. I didn't even talk about yang

Resistance is negation based. It’s not really about mental resistance.

No genjustu can be cast without chakra so asta is not negating anything.

Asta has regen negation.

I never mentioned regen. I mentioned healing.
And like I said hag can continously use energy required to fight someone stronger than him for months

The missles aren’t chakra based? Also Asta has causality breakijg. So he kinda just negates Hags ability to make himself undetectable, and whatever naraka is cuz I have no idea.

To my best of knowledge they are not made of chakra. And hag has layered resistance to power null, asta is not negating anything.

Which ones has he used in character and what are these bfrs exactly? Only teleportation type BFRs work on Asta, anything else like portals and stuff will probably get negged via various ways.

Hag opening a portal, throwing a pebble and as it falls in swaps asta with it and it is gg.

Absorbing AM could kill him considering it will negate the chakra he possesses. Although I’m skeptical about how he would understand the nature of an energy he has never seen before. That’s like expecting a BC mage to know something that shouldn’t even exist in their world.

Hag understood nature energy in his first encounter with it. It's a different energy from the system. And it would just negate the chakra flowing in his chakra pathway and not what makes his life force. He'd quickly understand how to use it and soon power his own chakra

Asta isn’t getting crushed, the LS difference is comparable. (The values are less than 2x and Asta upscales from his LS value.)

His base LS is class g. He gets squashed. If he immediately goes devil union then he stands a chance and even then it is more than a 2x value difference

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Passive aura is not stopping genjutsu outside a select few. Also a better question why are we Assuming mana in BC is being equalized to every single system here?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Please before you respond make sure whatever you respond with wouldn’t lead to me spamming “oh AM negs”… it makes the debate unnecessarily long and boring.

Also all the info you need is on the profile, this way our arguments are easy to read for all the lazy readers here

As for the mind manipulation:


I just checked the profile..I was wrong he has the typical resistance not anti magic based resistance. However, Asta should negate it with Liebe’s help assuming Asta’s instinctive reactions don’t allow him bring out a sword to negate it.

---

Nothing passive aura negation + causality negation can’t handle.



SBA also makes Hags start in his transformation since that’s how we’re doing it and Asta also has several ways of dealing with a blitz and teleportation such as precog and instinctive reactions. Asta also resists precog which has already been mentioned in this thread. Asta interacting with souls has also been mentioned in this thread.



None of these work on Asta due to passive aura negation and causality breaking.



And… that also gets auto negated. TSO is fundamentally useless here.



wounds inflicted by Asta’s AM simply can’t be regenerated from.



Asta resists telekinesis via LS or negates it with causality breaking just like he did against Ichika who was rag dolling him. Would negate the portal too.


AM isn’t a jutsu. Hag dies if he absorbs too much AM cuz much like magic, forcefully deleting chakra could kill you.

Asta’s wincon is beating him up. It’s not like a pacifist like him is skilled combat wise. Even if he got some kind of combat training I doubt he can keep up with someone as extremely skilled as Asta.

Of course one shotting with Zetten where Hags least expects

2 issues here.
1. Explain how CM is negating telekinesis or genjustu. And liebe isn't helping in genjustu. Obito on his own is able to put a perfect jinjuriki with 2 people under genjustu.
2. You're equating mana with too many things here

 

[Deceived3596]

Slow down. First of all zetten is restricted. No low5b keys. So not sure how we are treating it.

Zetten isn't restricted since it's an amplification achievable while in his 5-C state. The non-smurf doesn't disallow amps, you can be 9-A and have an amp that enhances you to High 3-A, and still be applicable for 9-A since the thread only really cares about base statistics (outside of some specifics explained on the actual thread itself).

 

[LordGinSama]

What's asta answer to genjustu?

I don't think Hags is the type of bust out Genjutsu like that. I can see him opting for things like TSO and such long before Genjutsu GG

 

[LordGinSama]

2 issues here.
1. Explain how CM is negating telekinesis or genjustu. And liebe isn't helping in genjustu.

That depends on the content of the Causality manipulation. By manipulating cause and effect one can theoretically remove the effect of Genjutsu by manipulation of the cause.

Not sure if that's what Asta actually does tho.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I don't think Hags is the type of bust out Genjutsu like that. I can see him opting for things like TSO and such long before Genjutsu GG

Not sure I agree. Given hags would want to end the fight rather quickly and likely in the least lethal way. Kotomatsunokami would likely be his first choice

 

[LordGinSama]

Not sure I agree. Given hags would want to end the fight rather quickly and likely in the least lethal way. Kotomatsunokami would likely be his first choice

Nah man he ain't violating a random kid. Teleportation along with a Mr Miyagi karate chop to the back of the neck GG.


Fair enough but doesn't he have other non lethal ways to drop Asta?

 

[KingogKings777]

Not sure I agree. Given hags would want to end the fight rather quickly and likely in the least lethal way. Kotomatsunokami would likely be his first choice

When did Hags get Koto?

 

[KingArthur561]

Passive aura is not stopping genjutsu outside a select few. Also a better question why are we Assuming mana in BC is being equalized to every single system here?

Sba equalized energy system as long have similarities. Genjutsu doesn't work on asta. Genjutsu will cancel if the enemy has better chakra control, with sba rule anti-magic and chakra are completely different energy

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-63ac219f6824e32d8a90b0510741464e-lq

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Sba equalized energy system as long have similarities.

The Issue is Anti magic also doesnt work on energy systems that also share the same similarities

Genjutsu doesn't work on asta. Genjutsu will cancel if the enemy has better chakra control

No it wont, thats not accept on the wiki at all.

The scan you dropped has been address like a hundred times on several CRT's including one thats been accepted, so i suggest not reusing very dated arguments

your Chakra is effected as a consequence of being in a Genjutsu, not the reason for Genjutsu, Asta doesnt have chakra, so his not going to have an external source to disrupt the genjutsu, meaning his going to have to resist the effects directly or having someone break him out externally, which Liebe could do for some of the lower tier Genjutsu but isnt an option for the strongest variations.

 

[Robo432343]

midoromo fra

 

[karo_senpaii]

That depends on the content of the Causality manipulation. By manipulating cause and effect one can theoretically remove the effect of Genjutsu by manipulation of the cause.

Not sure if that's what Asta actually does tho.

Honestly this is big leap in logic tbh

Sba equalized energy system as long have similarities. Genjutsu doesn't work on asta. Genjutsu will cancel if the enemy has better chakra control, with sba rule anti-magic and chakra are completely different energy

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-63ac219f6824e32d8a90b0510741464e-lq

Six path techniques are resistant to truth seeker orbs who nullify techniques in the first place. And even with similarities you can't equalise everything.
And no genjustu cannot be broken out of with better control.

 

[LordGinSama]

Honestly this is big leap in logic tbh

Not quite, that's what that ability is generally used for but as i said I'm not sure if Asta's application is like that.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

How does Hagoromo enact his BFR? Does he just think the person away or teleport them away physically or sm?

 

[DavidTPPM]

I just checked the profile..I was wrong he has the typical resistance not anti magic based resistance. However, Asta should negate it with Liebe’s help assuming Asta’s instinctive reactions don’t allow him bring out a sword to negate it.

How…? Asta would have to know how genjutsu works and how to infuse each other with energy in order to cancel it out.

Nothing passive aura negation + causality negation can’t handle.

Uhm senjutsu resists negation and causality manip is pretty useless if Asta can't use it due to mind manip.

SBA also makes Hags start in his transformation since that’s how we’re doing it and Asta also has several ways of dealing with a blitz and teleportation such as precog and instinctive reactions. Asta also resists precog which has already been mentioned in this thread. Asta interacting with souls has also been mentioned in this thread.

Body flicker isn't a transformation its a speed amp technique. I'm yet to see the scans about precog resistance because Hagoromo has 3 different precogs and claiming he resists them all is kidna wild without scans.
Asta interacting with souls is listed on one of his weapons and nothing else as far as I remember. Hence why I'm asking how does it work and if it can be combined with his regen negation because otherwise it's useless.

AM isn’t a jutsu. Hag dies if he absorbs too much AM cuz much like magic, forcefully deleting chakra could kill you.

Forcefully deleting all of your chakra could. Hagoromos chakra is nigh infinite so I don't think that's going to be a problem.

Asta’s wincon is beating him up. It’s not like a pacifist like him is skilled combat wise. Even if he got some kind of combat training I doubt he can keep up with someone as extremely skilled as Asta.

Hagoromo could fight and defeat Kaguya early in his life. Kaguya has millenia of combat experience. He's also trained his sons in combat and has an insane intelligence stats

Intelligence: Extraordinary Genius

Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki is a prodigious man of many talents, in which he greatly excels. Indra Ōtsutsuki, Hagoromo's son, inherited all of his father's abilities and talent from birth, which led to him being considered a "genius".[1][152] His talent in manipulating chakra were stated to be on par with Sasuke Uchiha, a prodigy in his own right.[424] Those endowed with even a portion of his abilities are blessed with an unbelievable aptitude for Ninjutsu, being able to master any technique they are taught due to their inherent mastery of all five Nature Transformations.[425] This is to be expected, as Hagoromo is the famed inventor of all forms of Ninjutsu known in the modern world, and is credited with being the father of all Shinobi.[92][108][109][110][111][112][13] Additionally, he also invented[136] several Ninja Tools that are famed for their unique and complex abilities, even a millennia later.[285] He also proved himself to be an extremely competent combatant, which was alluded to through his battle against the Ten Tails.[133] Even against a stronger opponent[133], Hagoromo was able to come out on top in the end, eventually managing to seal the beast away.[426][25]
He is also profoundly experienced, having lived for thousands of years.[4][5] He has gained a great deal of experience from travelling all over the world in order to preach his Ninshū creed.[152] Additionally, he has been watching over the world for the last 1000 years since his death[13], which allowed him to observe and interact with many cultures over a number of time periods.[1] He also showcased his general intelligence when he performed extensive research in order to figure out how to undo his mother's Infinite Tsukuyomi, in which he succeeded.[427] Another instance in which he showed great intellect was during his initial visit to the Land of Redaku. After contracting the chakra illness, he stumbled upon a meteor that contained a substance called the Ultra/Polar Particles, which healed him of his ailment. Afterwards, he hid what remained of the particles in two separate locations, and left clues for how to find them should the need arise to cure someone of the same illness in the future.[428] These clues came in the form of a series of riddles. These riddles showcased his profound knowledge of Astronomy. He subtly hid the locations of the particles within a game he created, called the Star Lines Game.[429] In this card game, which was likened to poker, the strongest hand -Star- points towards the first location, "the star that never strays". Meanwhile, the second strongest hand -Earth- points towards the second, "the sky that fell to the Earth".[430][431] For this conclusion to be reached, several clues need to be uncovered first. To start with, the connection between the game and the constellations in the sky must first be established by obtaining a book called the "Map of the Heavens", which contained many illustrations draw by Hagoromo himself. These drawing depicted the Bijū, with each one meant to represent a different month of the year and constellation. Of course, each star pattern also corresponded to one of the cards from the Star Lines Game.[429] After much trial and tribulation, Sakura and Sasuke were able to figure out the riddle and come to the aforementioned conclusion, which led them to discovering that the twelve cards and constellations were actually meant to denote the 12 Zodiac signs, which happen to make up the hand signs used by Shinobi to perform Ninjutsu. This led them to discover that the two winning combinations were actually a hidden sequence of hand seals that are required to perform the Jutsu needed to unlock the hidden particles.[430][431] All of this shows Hagoromo's vast pool of knowledge, and his ability to formulate complex and layered puzzles that can challenge people as intelligent as Sasuke and Sakura.
Hagoromo also showcased his sheer brilliance when he invented modern technology over a thousand years ahead of its time. He invented a prosthetic eye that allowed his blind friend, Janmāru-Tataru, to be able to see again. This is achieved by linking and transplanting the power of someone else's eye to the prosthetic, giving the power of sight to someone who cannot see.[432] This principle is conceptually similar to the Rinnegan's shared vision, which Hagoromo is intimately familiar with. The shared vision allows all of those controlled by the Six Paths technique to share their vision together[433], allowing them to see what the others are seeing in real time.[434] This is especially impressive because Orochimaru was inspired by this technology, and ended up creating his Dōjutsu goggles based on what he saw in the Land of Redaku.[435] The goggles function in the same way, allowing the transfer of one's Dōjutsu abilities to another through the goggles. The transfer of Kekkei Genkai through Scientific Ninja Tools was noted to be extremely difficult to achieve, and was beyond the capabilities of even the likes Katasuke Tōno.

So even tho he's a pacifist it's not like he's bad at combat.

A direct non hax brawl is a whole different debate as Hagoromo still has an insane moveset that doesn't use chakra based shenanigans like elemental manipulation that uses real elements rather than chakra made ones, several sealing weapons, power mimicry, teleportation, soul manipulation, summoning for animals that infinitely duplicate or make him invisible and undetectable.

Most likely scenario is that Hagoromo ends it instantly either through BFR, genjutsu, sealing, or some other painless ability.

If we assume that Asta somehow negates everything chakra based even if it's senjutsu that resists power null, Hagoromo just summons a bunch of rinnegan animals, a bunch of weapons that can seal Asta away if he as much as speaks to Hagoromo, spams natural water, earth, sand, wind, etc style techniques, learns everything Asta tries with power mimicry, dodges anything Asta tries either by hiding inside an undetectable invisible chameleon or by teleporting around, and at worst slowly overwhelms Asta.

 

[KingArthur561]

The Issue is Anti magic also doesnt work on energy systems that also share the same similarities

"Furthermore, attacks that require a special type of energy to be effective, like anti-magic requiring magic, will be assumed to work against the energies of different Verses, as long as they are somehow similar and the mechanics are somehow compatible with the known mechanics behind the energies from different Verses."

your Chakra is effected as a consequence of being in a Genjutsu, not the reason for Genjutsu, Asta doesnt have chakra, so his not going to have an external source to disrupt the genjutsu, meaning his going to have to resist the effects directly or having someone break him out externally, which Liebe could do for some of the lower tier Genjutsu but isnt an option for the strongest variations.

Nah, Jiraiya explained that you have to stop the flow of your chakra to stop ninjutsu. Well that's proof if you don't have chakra, you wouldn't affected by genjutsu

 

[KingArthur561]

Six path techniques are resistant to truth seeker orbs who nullify techniques in the first place. And even with similarities you can't equalise everything.
And no genjustu cannot be broken out of with better control.

 Different kinds of power null. Many black clover characters have resistance to power null but no one stands against anti magic. Senjutsu more like natural mana in bc universe

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Nah, Jiraiya explained that you have to stop the flow of your chakra to stop ninjutsu. Well that's proof if you don't have chakra, you wouldn't affected by genjutsu

make a thread about it because im not going to argue something thats already been argued, the same point over and over thats not accepted on the wiki.