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Anti-Monitor Revision
- Thread starter Elizio33
- Start date
- 7,876
- 14,919
That scan also proves the Anti Matter universe is not infinite. This is while all but 5 universes have been destroyed, and yet we are told the AM universe stretches on for "32 zillion light years."
- 3,759
- 1,615
Is that AM universe's limit?or its only stated it stretches to such lengths?
- 10,398
- 4,564
If they even pull a slice of it inside of them then it’s 2-A though.
- 10,398
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Oh wait that’s amazing, if the entire realm contains 2-A power and is finite and he just absorbs a finite portion of it then that’s still 2-A.
- 7,876
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Is says "The Anti-Matter universe stretches on for more than 32 zillion light years" indicating it's size. If it were infinite, they wouldn't give us a number like that.
No, that's not necessarily the case. Yes, any fraction of infinity is infinity, but taking a portion of something's power doesn't have to be a fraction, it can just be a finite amount of it. I could have an infinite amount of marbles, and still be capable of taking 5 of them. That's not infinity, it's just 5.
You have this backwards, if the AM Universe is not infinite, then it doesn't contain 2-A power. It's provably a 3-A realm. Likewise it suggests that the positive matter multiverse wasn't capable of providing infinite energy to the AM Universe since at this point he's absorbed all but 5 of them (AKA Infinity). This implies that Monitor may have had the same limitation in terms of channeling the Positive Multiverse.
- 3,759
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Yes. It wasn't stated that's it limit.
- 7,876
- 14,919
It's limit is irrelevant if it isn't actually that big. We are given it's size by the narration, to say "It said over 32 zillion light years, but it could actually mean infinite!" Is clearly trying to overlook the facts to accommodate a rating.
- 3,759
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We weren't,just stated it stretches 32 zillion light years. E.g a universe can be infinite and I can say someone went 500 trillion light years away. Dosent mean that's it size, just shows it stretches even to that limit and support its claim as infinite.
Sorry about my bad English.
- 7,876
- 14,919
Saying someone traveled x distance is not the same as saying "This universes stretches across x lightyears."
We are given the size of the AM Universe in that scan, not the distance an individual travelled.
- 3,759
- 1,615
Can you tag or resend it?
- 5,230
- 2,628
Zillion isn't a real number though, is a term for a ridiculous but undefined number.
- 3,312
- 3,118
- Thread starter
- #255
I'm agree with Deagonx here, if the narration say that the Antimatter Universe stretches on for more than 32 zillion light years, then the Antimatter Universe isn't infinite.
Even if a zillion isn't a real number but a term for undefined number, this isn't necessary infinite either.
So the Antimatter Universe has in fact an undefined size but isn't infinite.
Even if a zillion isn't a real number but a term for undefined number, this isn't necessary infinite either.
So the Antimatter Universe has in fact an undefined size but isn't infinite.
- 7,876
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The argument was made that AM is 2-A because he can channel the energy of the AM Universe, which was called 2-A on account of absorbing the positive matter multiverse.
- 7,524
- 7,722
@Antvasima
If the staff have no more concerns with my proposal up to now, I can make the edits later today.
If the staff have no more concerns with my proposal up to now, I can make the edits later today.
- 6,393
- 8,482
So if these edits come to tuition, how will we scale ZH Parallax? The current justification given is that Parallax was gonna cause damage on the same level as COIE and he absorbed the energy from that clash in COIE, but if we're going to consider that AM wasn't 2-A at part of the story then Parallax might need to be updated as well
- 922
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Parallax Hal can stay at 2-A afaik. While base Anti-Monitor will be downgraded, it's because the 2-A feats have been deemed as not via his own power. So, even if Anti-Monitor isn't 2-A, the events of COIE will still be 2-A, and Parallax Hal scales to the events rather than AM. The 2nd part of his justification may need to be removed though.
- 6,393
- 8,482
@Ehnkr2beboh that's a good point actually, I mainly because we do scale some characters to AM's current 2-A key like Parallax, World Forger and characters who are considered comparable such as Barbatos.
Parallax creating destruction equal to COIE is good for 2-A as you say, but the other characters might need to be downgraded if they don't scale directly to 2-A.
Parallax creating destruction equal to COIE is good for 2-A as you say, but the other characters might need to be downgraded if they don't scale directly to 2-A.
- 922
- 961
Oh yeah World Forger and the like will be downgraded too, just not people like Parallax who scale to the overall events.
- 3,759
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But why?
- 7,876
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The Monitor Brothers are consistently shown to be near equals in power.
- 3,759
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Wont dey be scaled according to their feats? But what are they going to be scaled too.
- 7,876
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Yes, of course, their feats will also be considered.
- 6,393
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Correct me if I'm wrong gentlemen, but aren't most of the World Forger's feats 2-C? Because of the whole replacing the local multiverse with his own multiverse, I also think Barbatos had something like that? It's said that he consumed countless universes to Daniel Hall Dream of The Endless but that can be interpreted
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- Thread starter
- #271
The World Forger's feat of replacing the local Multiverse with his own Multiverse should be considered as Low 1-C. Because his Multiverse has its own version of Hypertime and Apokolips, a higher vibratory world beyond normal space and time. This feat was made in the Sixth Dimension where he is much more powerful.
The In-Multiverse World Forger can:
* Can create a universe with every stroke of his hammer.
* Created the 52 universes of the local Multiverse.
* Shatter reality.
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- 3,312
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- Thread starter
- #273
Barbatos was going to sink the 52 universes of the Orrery into the Dark Multiverse by sinking Earth-0 which mostly acts as a link. If Earth-0 sinks, the other realities will also sink. So this feat cannot be used as an evidence for his rating.
But Barbatos has other feats like:
* Destroyed countless unstable universes.
* Disrupted the Multiverse and shook its strings with his scream.
* Killed the World Forger.
* Can create dark universes in the Dark Multiverse.
- 6,393
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Yeah, though I think in context he only killed the in verse version of World Forger because we see in his origin story that in the Sixth Dimension Barbatos is like this tiny creature he views as a pet so I think in a note we might need to say that Barbatos only killed that avatar and not the true self
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- Thread starter
- #275
Yep, Barbatos only killed the World Forger within the Multiverse where he become a lot weaker.
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Aside from Parallax and Barbatos, do we scale anyone else to the Anti Monitor's COIE key? Well aside from The Spectre, but I think Jim Corrigan's key should remain 2-A because it was later established in runs like Alan Moore's Swamp Thing and the start of the 1992 Spectre run that The Spectre by himself could've easily stopped the COIE event by himself but acted foolishly with his power which is why he was severly depowered as punishment
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- Thread starter
- #277
The empowered Spectre can remain 2-A since he fought the Anti-Monitor at his peak which is 2-A. I don't know for the others
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Yeah but I would like to have his non empowered self be 2-A for the reason I gave above but I'll save that for later as I don't wish to clog up the thread.
@Antvasima if this revision is to pass, should a thread be made regarding the stats of characters we scale to Anti Monitor or should they be reworked without a thread?
- 7,524
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Well, we have Anti-Monitor, Monitor, and Alpheus, I suppose.
- 10,398
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He could have stopped the event before AM became 2-A though. So no he shouldn’t scale for that reason, however other reasons probably still work.
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