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DC Comics - Remove the Anti Matter Wave and Durability Downgrade

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I'm just not sure 2-C would be a good fit for the base anti-monitor based on the feats it has. Low 2-C sounds much better to me.
 
Deagonx said:
The 2-A nature of the anti-matter wave is range, not AP.
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I mean, that would still be 2A. Even if its an compounded feat. It's just not something the AM scales to normally or if kept it would only count as a Environmental Destruction feat.

For the AP stuff I don't see a downgrade being legitimate without also downgrading everyone Pre-Crisis as well.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
It's just not something the AM scales to normally or if kept it would only count as a Environmental Destruction feat.

For the AP stuff I don't see a downgrade being legitimate without also downgrading everyone Pre-Crisis as well.
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Well if they are all scaled based on this singular misunderstanding, maybe that is in order? If they don't have other justifications, at best it could be an outlier.
 
Elizio33 said:
What's the Low 2-C and 2-C feats for Superman, at best, his most notable ones?
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Qawsedf234 said:
Yeah I was fine with that. It was just the general Low 2-C change for Pre-Crisis that I disagreed with.
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Elizio lets handle one thing at a time. If we can agree on downgrading AM lets get that handled, and if PC supes and the bunch should be looked at further, we should do that separately.
 
Elizio33 said:
What's the Low 2-C and 2-C feats for Superman, at best, his most notable ones?
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We already list most of them on his profile.
Attack Potency: Low Multiverse level (Comparable to Harbinger's clone who merged Earth-X, Earth-4 and Earth-S into the Netherverse to save them from the Anti-Matter Wave[1] and mortally wounded an extremely weakened Monitor.[2] Comparable to other Pre-Crisis Kryptonians such as Supergirl and Superboy-Prime. Repeatedly manage to harm Maaldor the Darklord, who turned himself into an entire universe upon becoming mad and in a later story he defeat him in his abstract form. Pushed himself toward the center of the big bang and destroyed a structure that was withstanding it.[3] Comparable to the original Captain Marvel, who defeated the Invincible Man), possibly Multiverse level+ (Generated enough power to restore all future timelines wiped out by the Time Trapper in his clash with Jaxon.[4] Manage to lobotomize Maaldor with great effort, who at that point had grown so large that he was threatening all existence[5])
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Deagonx said:
Simply put, the profiles are meant to reflect what the character is capable of in a VS match up.
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No, stuff relating to VS matches come second. Profiles are meant to reflect everything a character can do, whether it can be applied in a VS match or not.

Deagonx said:
Anti-Monitor, definitively, is not capable of simply unleashing a 2-A anti-matter wave against any opponent he fights. It was a very specific event that arose out of circumstances beyond AM's control.

Moreover, there's additional information in the storyline that directly indicates that he isn't capable of doing that.
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I mean it's not like we even scale the Anti-Matter wave to the Anti-Monitor's base self to begin with. Just simply note that it's not something that's part of his normal moveset or something he can do on a whim. I don't think it needs to be removed, just clarified better.

And for the record, the "possibly 2-A" comes from Pre-Crisis Superman and not AM. Granted I think the possibly 2-A feat is a massive outlier but that's for another time.
 
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Emirp sumitpo said:
No, stuff relating to VS matches come second. Profiles are meant to reflect everything a character can do, whether it can be applied in a VS match or not.


I mean it's not like we even scale the Anti-Matter wave to the Anti-Monitor's base self to begin with. Just simply note that it's not something that's part of his normal moveset or something he can do on a whim.

And for the record, the "possibly 2-A" comes from Pre-Crisis Superman and not AM.
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Yeah, the point of this thread is to remove the Anti Matter Wave from the Anti-Monitor's Attack Potency, as you already know, and leave the Anti-Monitor to 2-C, possibly 2-A scaling to Pre-Crisis Superman. (Even if the "possibly 2-A" bothers me)
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. Please explain further.
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All right. DC Comics Encyclopedia: All-New Edition's statement that New 52 Anti-Monitor is equal to his classic appearance during COIE was denied primarily because New 52 Anti-Monitor has lower showings than his classic counterpart, primarily due to the anti-matter wave. However, the anti-matter wave turned out to be something the Anti-Monitor shouldn't scale directly to nor something he couldn't do on a whim, so without the anti-matter wave, what contradict the DC Encyclopedia's statement? What are the feats the COIE Anti-Monitor did better than his New 52 counterpart without the anti-matter wave?

It was primarily refused because of the lack of evidence to support this statement. Now nothing really contradict this statement with the feats both versions have.
 
Elizio33 said:
All right. DC Comics Encyclopedia: All-New Edition's statement that New 52 Anti-Monitor is equal to his classic appearance during COIE was denied primarily because New 52 Anti-Monitor has lower showings than his classic counterpart, primarily due to the anti-matter wave. However, the anti-matter wave turned out to be something the Anti-Monitor shouldn't scale directly to nor something he couldn't do on a whim, so without the anti-matter wave, what contradict the DC Encyclopedia's statement? What are the feats the COIE Anti-Monitor did better than his New 52 counterpart without the anti-matter wave?

It was primarily refused because of the lack of evidence to support this statement. Now nothing really contradict this statement with the feats both versions have.
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It's better to just make a new CRT. It'll get convoluted it you just clump this in here.
 
Elizio33 said:
I'm just not sure 2-C would be a good fit for the base anti-monitor based on the feats it has. Low 2-C sounds much better to me.
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Antvasima said:
Okay. Please explain further.
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Elizio33 said:
All right. DC Comics Encyclopedia: All-New Edition's statement that New 52 Anti-Monitor is equal to his classic appearance during COIE was denied primarily because New 52 Anti-Monitor has lower showings than his classic counterpart, primarily due to the anti-matter wave. However, the anti-matter wave turned out to be something the Anti-Monitor shouldn't scale directly to nor something he couldn't do on a whim, so without the anti-matter wave, what contradict the DC Encyclopedia's statement? What are the feats the COIE Anti-Monitor did better than his New 52 counterpart without the anti-matter wave?

It was primarily refused because of the lack of evidence to support this statement. Now nothing really contradict this statement with the feats both versions have.
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Emirp sumitpo said:
It's better to just make a new CRT. It'll get convoluted it you just clump this in here.
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What do the rest of you think about this?
 
 
Antvasima said:
What do the rest of you think about this?
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Comics:

For COIE AM, I'm fine with making him at least comparable to the Weakened Monitor at 2-C from the Netherverse feat.

New 52 Guide:

Unless we have a New 52 AM feat implying 2-C in the comic, then I would avoid using the guide statement to make a solid rating. Maybe Possibly 2-C.
 
 
Elizio33 said:
He is considerably superior to them but not that much and needed to absorb the energy of a sun to fight against several heroes in his realm, the antimatter universe, and was knocked out after Dr. Light absorbed the energy of this sun and redirected it towards him.
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The Anti-Monitor wasn't 2-A when he fought the heroes during the battle. He's only 2-A after he absorbs his own Anti-Matter universe in issue 8, and he only did so after he got pissed off because The Flash destroyed his cannon.

When the heroes fight him again in issue 12, where time has been changed and the everything was sorta remade, we see that the Anti-Matter universe is still there, plus later in issue 12, he then states that he'll absorb his entire Anti-Matter universe as a last desperate attempt to kill Earth 2 Superman and Superboy Prime, further enforcing he wasn't at 2-A when he fought the heroes.

I still disagree with the entire thing. The only thing that needs changing is to further clarify that the Anti-Matter wave is not something he can just do on a whim or that it's not combat applicable.
 
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Antvasima said:
Your input would be appreciated here.
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Matter and Anti matter can't co-exist, so destroying a cosmos through that, can't exactly take as a solid 2-A feat for AP. it's a hax rather raw power and taking advantage of the nature of positive matter and anti matter.

Pariah is actually the one who responsible for the creation of AM wave. Anti matter merely took the advantage of his experiment. Pariah is the main reason for it. There is no indication he generated it though sheer power. For possibly 2-A based on pre-crisis superheroes seems bit scretch to me, because It was explicity stated pre crisis heroes power level caps at solar system level. He shouldn't given 2-C in base, only with energy absorbption.
 
LuciferX said:
Matter and Anti matter can't co-exist, so destroying a cosmos through that, can't exactly take as a solid 2-A feat for AP. it's a hax rather raw power and taking advantage of the nature of positive matter and anti matter.
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We still give AP ratings to hax feats, this shouldn't be any different.

LuciferX said:
Pariah is actually the one who responsible for the creation of AM wave. Anti matter merely took the advantage of his experiment. Pariah is the main reason for it.
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No? Pariah simply opened a portal between the Anti-Matter universe and the Positive Matter Multiverse, whhich then the Anti-Monitor then took advantage. Anti-Monitor even literally states that his experiment being the cause for it is literally impossible in that same panel.

LuciferX said:
It was explicity stated pre crisis heroes power level caps at solar system level.
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Pre-Crisis characters have many feats beyond just 4-B. And this is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
 
Deagonx said:
What is the current staff tally?
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I suppose I'm neutral.

I agree with the premise in the way that the OP presented it, but Emirp's arguments make it seem like there's more going on.

I also definitely disagree with the antimatter that the Anti-Monitor created simply being hax that's infinitely above him.

But, I also stand by what I said about collecting energy in my initial post.
 
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ByAsura said:
I also definitely disagree with the antimatter that the Anti-Monitor created simply being hax that's infinitely above him.
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Like I said, it's a 2-A feat, but it's not a move he can just dish out whenever. As it's him converting positive matter into anti-matter. My suggestion is to simply further elaborate the mechanics of the Anti-Matter wave and that the Anti-Matter wave is not combat applicable in a VS match up
 
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