About Yang vs Inasa and determining if it's a stomp

[MilesTheMorales1]

I agree with king, and therefore concede the stomp vote suggestion.

Also, I still strongly believe that Yang vs Inasa wasn't a stomp FRA. If even @WeeklyBattles agrees with it, shouldn't we unlock the original thread? Or if the Grace period negates this action, can we just add this battle already?

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

That's the standard procedure. If someone is trying to pull the stomp card, that's easily debunkable.

Noted. I'm hoping for an official concession from @WeeklyBattles on whether OG thread was a stomp or not.

Until then, do I have permission to edit the OP to revising the thread topic to strictly "unstomping" Yang v Inasa?

 

[The_Calaca]

You should wait for his reply before that.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

The only reasoning that was given for that match not being a stomp is 'inasa could make a mistake'. That is not a viable argument for a stomp to not be a stomp, especially given the location the fight was in. X character could win via sheer luck is not viable, if that's the case then anyone could say that a meteor could randomly strike the opponent therefore the character who is getting stomped could potentially win and as a result the match is fair.

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

Wow, comparing death by meteor to getting caught off guard. That's a new one.

It's also one of the biggest false equivelence I have ever seen to justify an argument. I shouldn't have to explain why, but since you straight up ignore the other wincons presented such as speed blitzing, evading or powering through his wind(Only reason Yang doesn't is because of the fight conditions, which for this reason alone is not a stomp for Inasa to win) I will explain anyway to the best of my abilities.

For starters, a meteor is not allowed to be used in a VS fight between two combatants. Unless a fighter is using telekinetic powers to move such an object or has insane probability hax, a meteor can be considered an outside force because neither character could have possibly influenced a meteorite strike on the other. Even if the chance were there (which it technically is, 1 in 250,000 to be precise), we couldn't use it because chance is the only factor in play here.

In Yang vs Inasa, however, catching your opponent off guard (which you also falsely equated to just "sitting there" with the intent of letting Yang hit him) has everything to do with the skillset of the fighters. Yang activating her semblance creates a moderately large flash of light along with energy enough to shatter glass structures around her. Unless it's specified that Inasa has prior knowledge of Yang's abilities, this would without a doubt be a shock to him, which gives Yang an opening to attack. Inasa has above-average intelligence; maybe a gifted fighter would formulaically dish out the precise moves that would make this an even less likely wincon, but someone at his level isn't predicting Yang's actions to that degree.

Now you should be able to see why this comparison is bad. One is chance based on the cosmological environment, and the other is solely focused on the characters' skills and tactics. I know you're not going to double down after this reasoning, but just in case you do, remember that you equated a 1-to-250,000 chance to the odds of basic human instincts. Since Inasa is never shown to be reactionless, or trained to have such quick reaction speeds or ignore instincts, you would have to concede that there is a viable chance of Inasa being briefly vulnerable to being caught off guard from Yang's semblance.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

There is nothing yang can use to catch him off guard. He is in the air and the battlefield is an open field with no trees or environment she can even hide behind.

Speed is equalized, yang cant speed blitz.

Yang has nothing in her arsenal that would let her dodge aoe wind of that caliber.

Yang can only power through his wind with a fully amped semblance which only lasts for a few seconds in which inasa would just fly away once he sees that his opponent suddenly got strong enough to brute force their way through his wind.

Yangs semblance doesnt create light, it just sets her hair on fire, and she has never once used her semblance to blind people as people have looked directly at her while her semblance was activated and not been blinded.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Again, the sole reason for this being argued as not being a stomp is yang somehow catching inasa off guard when there is nothing in her arsenal, nothing in the environment, and nothing in inasa's mindset that would viably allow that to happen. Hence the meteor comparison, under the circumstances of this fight yang catching inasa off guard is just as likely that a meteor strikes inasa.

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

Can you read? You keep repeating the same points over and over even though I responded to them. Please don't do that again.

There is nothing yang can use to catch him off guard. He is in the air and the battlefield is an open field with no trees or environment she can even hide behind.

You don't need to sneak up on someone to catch them by surprise; unless you have full knowledge of your opponent's abilities, an unexpected visible change or action is enough to do this.

Speed is equalized, yang cant speed blitz.

I'm fully aware of the battle specifications, I'm glad you are too. I hope you also know that for this very reason, this battle is not a stomp. I've quoted the stomp thread wiki page enough already to prove this point, but you keep ignoring it. If fighter A beats fighter B due to battle conditions rendering B unable to use their winning move first, it's NOT A STOMP. You bringing this point up again doesn't dispute the fact that this is officially seen as a non stomp.

Yang has nothing in her arsenal that would let her dodge aoe wind of that caliber.

She would have quintupled his speed given that she is Hypersonic+ and he is Supersonic+, but speed is equalized, and therefore her acceleration wincons aren't used in this battle. Again, this makes this match not a stomp because we are limiting her speed in order for him to have the advantage.

Yang can only power through his wind with a fully amped semblance which only lasts for a few seconds in which inasa would just fly away once he sees that his opponent suddenly got strong enough to brute force their way through his wind.

I agree, this is a viable wincon for Inasa. It's also viable for Yang to tag him before he can fully react after being caught off guard.

Yangs semblance doesnt create light, it just sets her hair on fire, and she has never once used her semblance to blind people as people have looked directly at her while her semblance was activated and not been blinded.

1. I never once stated that her semblance blinded her opponents, this point is redundant. It is however definitely bright enough to catch someone off guard.

2. It is shown in the Yellow trailer (which is canon) that activating her semblance does emit light, along with setting her hair on fire. This was enough to easily catch Hei Xong off guard. This wincon would be slightly less likely because Inasa is (assumably) more intelligent than Hei, but that doesn't make it impossible to pull off, let alone the odds of getting hit by a stray meteorite in battle.

Again, the sole reason for this being argued as not being a stomp is yang somehow catching inasa off guard when there is nothing in her arsenal, nothing in the environment, and nothing in inasa's mindset that would viably allow that to happen. Hence the meteor comparison, under the circumstances of this fight yang catching inasa off guard is just as likely that a meteor strikes inasa.

You gotta provide evidence for such a high claim. Without any proof, you can't make such an assumption. I need a statement that describes how he "never gets surprised by anything," or some sort of training that deals specifically with reaction. If you can't provide anything like that, we have to assume that his response to Yang's sudden change will be only slightly lower than the average person. I have already explained how this one wincon is viable, and provided other wincons that aren't allowed in this battle due to the conditions of the fight. The environment ca have something to do with surprising a fighter with stealth, but Yang has done so without the use of it.

In conclusion, Inasa is the most likely fighter to win in this match, but it is not impossible or abundantly unlikely for Yang to win. Thus, this battle is not a stomp, and this match should be added.

 

[Moritzva]

Don'tTalk made a similar thread regarding this topic. His proposal was that if the verdict of a long and drawn out debate was that A stomps B then this match should still be added as a valid match. Its not obviously a stomp if you can manage to debate for a extremly long time.

This is both true, and not true. In all fairness, there are people who will drag a debate into the ground for way, waaayy too long - but then again, they're the most likely to turn around and call it a stomp, in my experience.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, I definitly agree that it's a case by case.

And in this case, catching people off guard is a relatively easy thing to do. With how aura and her semblance works, she'll be getting hit a lot before anything major happens.

That means Inasa will get used to how far his attack push her, how much power she has, and so on. People get caught off guard by far less then a massive increase in AP in real life, which is why I can put a black belt against a brown belt (in karate, but it applies to any martial arts) and both could reasonably win despite one being obviously superior.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

snip

I can read. You have not responded to anything other than just repeating the same thing over and over.

Yang has two offensive abilities: Punching and kinetic shots. neither of them will catch Inasa off guard.

Speed equalization does not make stomp matches fair.

Speed equalized does not make matches fair again.

She doesnt have anything that can catch him off guard so that point is moot.

1. No, its not. It does not create any sort of flash at all. Ergo it would not catch him off guard.

2. It. Does. Not. Create. A. Flash. It just sets her hair on fire. This is not a point of contention, this is a fact. As such, it is not viable to say that her activating her semblance would throw Inasa off guard, not to mention the fact that she'd have to be in his face to be able to do so which isnt happening.

You have yet to provide any viable wincon for Yang that doesnt rely solely on sheer luck or Inasa being a complete idiot.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

You don't need flashes... suddenly becoming so strong that you can move through an enemy's attacks would catch any normal person off guard. Unless he is used against people that stat amp that much, or has some particular ability to predict this, he isn't just going to be completely unfaltering against anything that happens.

If you think getting caught off guard by a massive boost in power like that makes someone an iditiot, then you must have a bad view of every single fighter on earth.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ricsi Cool, Inasa in character would just fly away. And yeah, he has, his wind has blown away Todoroki's High 8-C+ flames

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

@Ricsi Cool, Inasa in character would just fly away. And yeah, he has, his wind has blown away Todoroki's High 8-C+ flames

Firstly, relatively certain her AP would be double his.

Secondly, Todoroki wasn't unable to do anything for a whole fight then suddenly get a power boost that made him pass through his wind like nothing special.

And lastly, people take time to react to stuff. He is no perfect being, he can be taken off guard by her just getting through his wind.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

This is Volume 4 Yang, her AP with her semblance is only 8 tons maximum

Yang wouldnt suddenly get a power boost that would let her power through the wind either

He would just fly away as he did in the manga.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Basically Inasa stomps because he can and will freely fly out of Yang's reach, will constantly ragdoll her and keep her from ever getting anywhere near him with his High 8-C+ wind attacks that she will not be strong enough to muscle her way through or even resist until the last few seconds of the fight, will use his wind to blow away any projectiles she shoots at him, all of which are things he does in character, his weakness of heat is would not come into effect here as Yang's shots are nowhere near the heat of Todoroki's flames, and even if Yang uses her semblance she wouldnt be strong enough to power through Inasa's wind attacks and she would need to be close to him to be able to do any damage.

Unless Inasa suddenly becomes a complete moron when he sees Yang get stronger from her semblance visibly activating and decides to stand completely still when she activates it, he stomps.

 

[BakiHanma18]

Catching someone off-guard in this manner, while likely, would still not give Yang nearly enough time to force her way through the wind, get to him, and hit him. It's much more likely he'd be briefly shocked, and then react accordingly. Inasa is shown to be quite the adept hero in training, and adapting under pressure is kind of the name of the game for heroes

 

[WeeklyBattles]

And again, it does not. create a flash It just sets her hair on fire.

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

snip

I can read. You have not responded to anything other than just repeating the same thing over and over.
Yang has two offensive abilities: Punching and kinetic shots. neither of them will catch Inasa off guard.

Speed equalization does not make stomp matches fair.

Speed equalized does not make matches fair again.

She doesnt have anything that can catch him off guard so that point is moot.

1. No, its not. It does not create any sort of flash at all. Ergo it would not catch him off guard.

2. It. Does. Not. Create. A. Flash. It just sets her hair on fire. This is not a point of contention, this is a fact. As such, it is not viable to say that her activating her semblance would throw Inasa off guard, not to mention the fact that she'd have to be in his face to be able to do so which isnt happening.

You have yet to provide any viable wincon for Yang that doesnt rely solely on sheer luck or Inasa being a complete idiot.

Yup, I'm about done debating with you about this. All you've done is pretty much 'nope-you're-wrong'ed the majority of my arguments with one sentence responses, and if you don't do that you severely misrepresent my argument by responding to only half of what I said or something I never said. I'm done with your non-sequitors leading to NLF claims about Inasa being nigh impossible to surprise. I'm done with you arguing the same shit over and over just so you can use the same points again. Until you come up with something else to say to argue your point, I will no longer reply to you in this thread.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Really? Just an fictional debate you goes mad and done like that? Really?

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

My honest opinion:

Guy who can fly against guy who can´t reach the guy flying= stomp

This match in a Nutshell,nothing more to say

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

I'm not mad @Velox, I just reckognized the grandiose waste of time trying to reason with Weekly is right now.

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

My honest opinion:
Guy who can fly against guy who can´t reach the guy flying= stomp

We've already established that Yang can reach Inasa with her semblance, and her acceleration alone(if the fight conditions accounted for speed)

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Speed equalization does not make stomps fair

Her semblance doesnt let her fly or give her anything that would let her catch Inasa in flight unless he was standing completely still

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That's just downplaying her pseudo-flight. She can propel herself towards him just fine.

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

I never said speed equalizations "makes stomps fair," I said, citing the wiki rules many times, that they make it not a stomp.

And now I'm cursing myself for replying again. You're just gonna ignore that fact again.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes, key word being pseudo. Inasa has true flight, yang can only move in one direction and will also be dealing with wind blowing her around. She can go through it for only a few seconds while her semblance is active but if he changes the wind to blow her from the side as is in character for him to do she will have to change direction.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Why would she be limited to one direction? Her gaunlets have more then enough energy to let her fly around, and are far easier to move around then her Ruby's schyte.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

They dont let her fly at all what are you talking about

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

They dont let her fly at all what are you talking about

I have no words lmfao

 

[WeeklyBattles]

I have no words lmfao

Did you not realize that Yang cant fly or...?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

They dont let her fly at all what are you talking about

The very first time she uses the gaunlet, outside of her trailer, is to fly above the forest as the kick from the gaunlets keep her in the air.

I think she also uses it to get to a nevermore's height, but I don't remember that fight that well.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Ricsi No? Propelling herself forward using the force of her gauntlets is not flight

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

Yeah, Yang consistently uses the gauntlets to manuever in many directions. It's called pseudo-flight because she doesn't have free movement in the air, not because she cannot move at all. This sort of equivocation is why I debated not even talking to you anymore.

Your reasonings are full of BS and hang on fallacious arguments and conjecture. Give up.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Again, Yang can only use her gauntlets to propel herself in a single direction, she has to manually change her entire physical position in order to change direction. She does not have true flight and thus is nowhere near maneuverable enough to hit Inasa flying around.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

@Ricsi No? Propelling herself forward using the force of her gauntlets is not flight

It is.

You get energy that pushes you towards the direction you want to go mid air.

The fact that the energy comes from the kick-back of a gun and not the air pushed by wings doesn't matter. She can move and go where she wants mid-air by shooting the opposite direction.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Again, Yang can only use her gauntlets to propel herself in a single direction, she has to manually change her entire physical position in order to change direction. She does not have true flight and thus is nowhere near maneuverable enough to hit Inasa flying around.

 

[MilesTheMorales1]

Why did you just delete and repost the same message? Is that supposed to make it more valid?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

It is.

You get energy that pushes you towards the direction you want to go mid air.

The fact that the energy comes from the kick-back of a gun and not the air pushed by wings doesn't matter. She can move and go where she wants mid-air by shooting the opposite direction.

You do know that she is going to be pushing against an attack that is over 6x stronger than herself right?

 

[KingEzran]

Miles. I made the thread, I don't really care about the fact it was labeled as a stomp. The most you can do for me now is vote on Yang Xiao Long vs Yo Shindo. Everybody's the same tier. Just no wind ragdolling. You don't have to do this, Miles. It doesn't bother me.