2A (Possibly L1C) Devil May Cry - A relevant closer to a CRT

[Deagonx]

I'm referring to the space that contains them... Regardless I'm about to make a thread about that topic now.

Yes, but the space that contains them simply being "infinite" isn't 2-A. It would need to either contain an infinite amount of universes or there would need to be a direct indication that it could contain an infinite amount. There isn't any and the OP isn't even alleging that there is, aside from using Low 1-C arguments.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

That would make it Low 1-C.

You'd still need uncountable infinite or evidence of dimensional superiority to get that, no?

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Yes, but the space that contains them simply being "infinite" isn't 2-A. It would need to either contain an infinite amount of universes or there would need to be a direct indication that it could contain an infinite amount. There isn't any and the OP isn't even alleging that there is, aside from using Low 1-C arguments.

Which is why I'm made this thread, because apparently people are getting 2-A using that logic

 

[CloverDragon03]

That would make it Low 1-C.

Then I'm a little lost admittedly, because I then can't really see where 2-A is coming from

 

[Deagonx]

Then I'm a little lost admittedly, because I then can't really see where 2-A is coming from

It isn't coming from anywhere. He is arguing that it doesn't contain infinite universes, but it could, and his justification for that is simply a previously rejected argument for Low 1-C:

Is there any direct evidence that the number of realms is itself infinite? If not, how would it be 2-A?

I'm focusing on the structure and capacity of the Demon World rather than the actual count of realms within it.

I don't see how any of those things demonstrate that the DW is capable of containing infinite universes within it.

The "Demon World" is depicted to be "infinite" as a "container", a structure, in relative to a 4th dimensional construct being treated as insignificant in comparison to it. This is clearly a hint towards it's 2A (Multiverse+) capacity at the very least.

That's why I'm saying the proposal is a bit farcical. We can't rationally pass a 2-A upgrade where the OP is freely admitting that there is no evidence for 2-A whatsoever, and that his rationale for 2-A is textbook Low 1-C.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

It isn't coming from anywhere. He is arguing that it doesn't contain infinite universes, but it could, and his justification for that is simply a previously rejected argument for Low 1-C:

Soo what you suggest here?

That's why I'm saying the proposal is a bit farcical. We can't rationally pass a 2-A upgrade where the OP is freely admitting that there is no evidence for 2-A whatsoever, and that his rationale for 2-A is textbook Low 1-C.

Given the context, I'd obviously assume it would rationalize both those tiers simultaneously whatsoever. Am I wrong?

It in itself is infinite and sees an L2C structure as finite line.

 

[Deagonx]

Given the context, I'd obviously assume it would rationalize both those tiers simultaneously whatsoever. Am I wrong?

Yes, you are wrong.

It is true that a Low 1-C structure could contain an infinite amount of 4-D universes, but it's not logical to say that this makes anything 2-A. It'd be like saying a character is star level because they are galaxy level, because galaxies contain lots of stars. It's automatic that a high tier encompasses the lower tiers.

It in itself is infinite and sees an L2C structure as finite line.

This is an argument for Low 1-C, and notably, it is an argument that has been rejected before.

That doesn't mean that you can't propose it again, but it isn't an argument for 2-A and you would need to make it clear that you want to re-argue the "ray of light" scan as a justification for Low 1-C.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Yes, you are wrong.

It is true that a Low 1-C structure could contain an infinite amount of 4-D universes, but it's not logical to say that this makes anything 2-A. It'd be like saying a character is star level because they are galaxy level, because galaxies contain lots of stars. It's automatic that a high tier encompasses the lower tiers.

I actually agree with this except the context here is different then one could assume under normal occasions.

This is an argument for Low 1-C, and notably, it is an argument that has been rejected before.

That doesn't mean that you can't propose it again, but it isn't an argument for 2-A and you would need to make it clear that you want to re-argue the "ray of light" scan as a justification for Low 1-C.

Ultima recently basically said it could mean L1C too and also pointed he didn't read the blog. He just pointed it out on normal occasion instead of looking deep into the context.

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

Im Agree
You can count me for being agree on dmc upgrading to 2-A and low 1-C

 

[Tarikari]

Is this still active?

 

[Huesito88]

Is this still active?

Yes

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Is this still active?

I've some things to discuss here before I conclude it but after my exams are over.

In truth, the situation is much more different then just any space that contains space-time continuums within it, mainly according to certain implications for higher dimensional framework due to an interesting comparison that focuses on both quality and quantity of the outer and inner realms soo I need to go through it carefully how to interpret it as and if the wiki actually allows it or not.

 

[Firestorm808]

At least 2-B, likely 2-A

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Still disagree with that

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

But im agree with both 2-A and low 1-C
I have my reasons

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Anyway just to be sure, we should probably refrain from talking here, atleast till this revision thread is finished.

 

[Quang230]

So, anything new?

 

[Ryu-Strongest-Fighter-in-Universe]

So, anything new?

Bro wait until the thread maker tells us when we debate that

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Man... Y'all take forever to get through stuff these days...

 

[Omnificence]

Man... Y'all take forever to get through stuff these days...

Don't we already have the votes for the changes?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Don't we already have the votes for the changes?

Yes, but LordGriffon started a general revision thread, so I figured it’d be fine to wait a bit. Given how things are dragging, though… meh.

 

[SeijiSetto]

Yes, but LordGriffon started a general revision thread, so I figured it’d be fine to wait a bit. Given how things are dragging, though… meh.

why not go bump that or ask him to bump it then
posting here won't do anything if it was decided to put this on hold until that was finished

 

[SuperSonicTL]

why not go bump that or ask him to bump it then
posting here won't do anything if it was decided to put this on hold until that was finished

That's assuming I already didn't asked him and everyone else to bump it in message walls.

I barely have perms to talk there anyway...

 

[Unoriginal777]

Hello everyone,

As you can probably tell I'm still fairly new to the environment of VSBW, but after browsing various threads, learning the rules/culture of the site, and seeing how those rules are enacted within threads I find that I now have a keen interest in the topic of this thread: namely an interest in answering the question of why it hasn't been applied yet? Afterall, the votes have leaned in its favor for months at this point by a wide margin. At this point the most responsible thing to be done is to allow the application of the thread without further delay as allowing for an indefinite wait would be unnecessary at this point and a burden to the diligent supporters of this verse who've worked hard to get to this point. I mean, would you want such an indefinite hold to be placed on the verses you were supporting despite votes already leaning in your favor by a wide margin? Additionally, the fact that one of the opposition being Deagon already partially conceded to the idea of a 2-A Demon Realm in the past shows why this thread should be applied as soon as possible as this is proof of the argument's effectiveness overall. To do otherwise would be to deny that effectiveness on arbitrary grounds not rooted in logic.

In any case, I hope that things will be settled here and soon as withholding the vote any further would be bordering on the rude and I don't feel it beneficial that VSBW should tarnish it's own reputation this way. Let alone the fact that this strange unwillingness to allow for CRT application despite a massive advantage in votes may just end up scaring curious onlookers (like myself only mere months before) from having any willingness to vie for representation of their favorite verses on the VSBW site when they could just move to another competitor that is more receptive.

 

[SYPHe5D]

The Liberation of DMC is finally at hand.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Hello everyone,

As you can probably tell I'm still fairly new to the environment of VSBW, but after browsing various threads and learning the rules/culture of the site I find that I now have a keen interest in the topic of this thread: namely an interest in answering the question of why it hasn't been applied yet? Afterall, the votes have leaned in its favor for months at this point by a wide margin. At this point the most responsible thing to be done is to allow the application of the thread without further delay as allowing for an indefinite wait would be unnecessary at this point and a burden to the diligent supporters of this verse who've worked hard to get to this point. I mean, would you want such an indefinite hold to be placed on the verses you were supporting despite votes already leaning in your favor by a wide margin? Additionally, the fact that one of the opposition being Deagon already partially conceded to the idea of a 2-A Demon Realm in the past shows why this thread should be applied as soon as possible as this is proof of the argument's effectiveness overall. To do otherwise would be to deny that effectiveness on arbitrary grounds not rooted in logic.

In any case, I hope that things will be settled here and soon as withholding the vote any further would be bordering on the rude and I don't feel it beneficial that VSBW should tarnish it's own reputation this way. Let alone the fact that this strange unwillingness to allow for CRT application despite a massive advantage in votes may just end up scaring curious onlookers (like myself only mere months before) from having any willingness to vie for representation of their favorite verses on the VSBW site when they could just move to another that is receptive.

On second thought, I believe you’re absolutely right. I feel like I’ve already provided more than enough evidence for this to be considered an L1C structure, let alone 2A, which is further overshadowed by what the wiki might call an “insignificant 5D” space. A 2A structure simply cannot exist without a superspace to contain it.

Looking back at the container thread, I think Astral Trinity explained it best:

Application in Higher-Dimensionality
The above basically means that this 5th dimensional axis [4th spatial dimension], which is not equivalent to a whole R[Set of real numbers], is similar to the concept of "Finite time overarching a 3-Dimensional space"; I.e., both are countably infinite in size.

Now, we all know how the equation to represent 3-D is R x R x R [or R to the power of 3] right? By the same logic, the equation to represent 4-D would be R x R x R x R, and that for 5-D would be R x R x R x R x R. However, if the 5th dimension is not equivalent to a whole R, and instead equivalent to N[set of natural numbers], then the equation becomes R x R x R x R x N.

Now, since we know that the R part of the equation is equivalent to a 4-D Space-time Continuum, we'll go ahead and replace it by that:
=4-D Space-Time Continuum x N
= 4-D x Countably Infinite
This basically means that this finite 5th dimensional axis is capable of spawning snapshots of whatever it overarches a countably infinite amount of time [in the same sense that a finite length line segment still has a countably infinite number of points on it].

Basically, a 2A structure must exist within a 5D structure, as its very purpose is to contain a countably infinite number of space-time continuums, or "snapshots" in VSBW terms. In the context of my proposal, each space-time continuum is represented as a "finite line" within an infinite space. This demonstrates a clear dimensional distinction between the two structures, which is better than nothing, in my opinion.

Additionally, I don’t understand how one could justify jumping directly from L2C to L1C without acknowledging an intermediate step. It makes me question whether Tier 2 itself holds any relevance at this point, though that’s a discussion for another time. For now, we should move forward with the established votes.

 

[Unoriginal777]

Oh and before I forget I figure I should add my stance on this CRT.

I find myself standing firmly on the side of Low 1-C given the fact that the finite ray or line of light versus unending/endless/infinite darkness statement implies a dimensional comparison between a flat line mimicking 2D lines and infinite amounts of darkness that fills out infinite 3D space scratched at by this comparison. To me anything less than Low 1-C would be a peculiar outlook at this point so yeah I stand with Sonic on this one. And this is without getting into all the other reasons Sonic provided that have already been thoroughly delved into at this point.

 

[Agnaa]

Was this applied correctly? Went from 2-C Tier/AP/SS/Dura, to 2-A possibly Low 1-C Tier and AP, with SS and Dura remaining the same.

If that's not correct, please check all other pages that were updated for similar issues.

 

[chosen]

Was this applied correctly? Went from 2-C Tier/AP/SS/Dura, to 2-A possibly Low 1-C Tier and AP, with SS and Dura remaining the same.

If that's not correct, please check all other pages that were updated for similar issues.

Ye everything that's still low multi on page should be changed to 2a possibly low 1c.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

I'm looking into it. If someone can point non-updated pages out, it would be appreciated.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Ngl I'm just upset at myself for not commenting when I really don't think this should've been accepted but ah well

Anyways yeah you gotta apply it for all sections

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Was this applied correctly? Went from 2-C Tier/AP/SS/Dura, to 2-A possibly Low 1-C Tier and AP, with SS and Dura remaining the same.

If that's not correct, please check all other pages that were updated for similar issues.

Regarding it, how was the "possible low 1C" accepted when a majority only agreed to 2A?

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Ngl I'm just upset at myself for not commenting when I really don't think this should've been accepted but ah well

Anyways yeah you gotta apply it for all sections

Don't test my patience dear fellow Sonic fan

I updated the ratings for all God-tier profiles and replaced the cosmology blog on the main page, but I'll double-check to ensure nothing was overlooked.

 

[SuperSonicTL]

Regarding it, how was the "possible low 1C" accepted when a majority only agreed to 2A?

Four mods/admins were leaning to a possible rating and others were neutral as far as I'm concerned. Then again it makes sense either way so I have implemented it there like that. You can take both cases into account equally.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

So Dante goes back to being level 1?

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Four mods/admins were leaning to a possible rating and others were neutral as far as I'm concerned. Then again it makes sense either way so I have implemented it there like that. You can take both cases into account equally.

That is blatantly wrong since, for example, Qawsed disagreed with the Low 1C, but you ignored that and only put it up as "agree with 2A"

Just replying for the ping

 

[SuperSonicTL]

That is blatantly wrong since, for example, Qawsed disagreed with the Low 1C, but you ignored that and only put it up as "agree with 2A"

Probably missed that one but what’s the goal here? A 4 vs. 1 situation? Or maybe 4 vs. 2 at most? Either way, the votes are still in my favor. Even Deagon has shown signs that it can only mean L1C yet I labeled him as disagreement only. I'm fair with everyone here regardless if they agree or disagree.

If Qaw is available, I’m happy to debate the matter right now or you can point out more mods that didn't agreed upon it. That said, this thread was already concluded a while back. If anyone has an issue, they’re free to start another CRT thread in the future. I’ve always given everyone the chance to speak but considering how fast these threads pile up, it’d just turn into another drag with 3-4 threads running at the same time. Maybe it’s best to leave things as they are for now.

 

[Hasty12345]

I was under the impression this thread was waiting for the staff only tier system/standards revision that arose specifically due to the argument presented in this thread.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Probably missed that one but what’s the goal here? A 4 vs. 1 situation? Or maybe 4 vs. 2 at most? Either way, the votes are still in my favor.

If Qaw is available, I’m happy to debate the matter right now or you can point out more mods that didn't agreed upon it. That said, this thread was already concluded a while back. If anyone has an issue, they’re free to start another CRT thread in the future. I’ve always given everyone the chance to speak but considering how fast these threads pile up, it’d just turn into another drag with 3-4 threads running at the same time. Maybe it’s best to leave things as they are for now.

I can't tell if you are completely ignoring the opposition that intentionally disagrees with the upgrade.

At minimum that would be a 4 vs 3 with a large majority that is "neutral." Oh, wait a minute LordGriffin is also against the Low 1C, as mentioned here, and later again reinforced here.'


So yeah... About this being a 4 to 1... It truly is not...

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I was under the impression this thread was waiting for the staff only tier system/standards revision that arose specifically due to the argument presented in this thread.

Nah, he just implemented it and did a clear vote manipulation...