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Zoro VS Garou (11/4/2)

KingTempest said:
Zoro has precog which can counter his Instinctive Reaction.

I'm surprised Garou doesn't have precog in his powers and abilities. It's in his categories though, so idk
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Eh, he's never stated to have precognition, he can however anticipate exactly what his opponent will do by judging their body posture, breathing, etc (according to webcomic, this ability hasn't been covered in the manga yet) so maybe that's what you're thinking about. It works as short-term precog essentially. How good is Zoro's observation haki? If it allows him to see 1 second into the future, it wouldn't necessarily give Zoro an advantage, but if it's like 5 seconds it's an important advantage.

EDIT: I see he's listed as a proficient user on his page, but the Haki page has him as a rudimentary user. Is he proficient in this key or rudimentary?
 
So, here's an example of how durability negation/internal destruction with Armament Haki looks:

240


As you can see, his Haki touches and enters the tree, and it bursts from the inside. Basically, if Zoro's Haki, not his blades even, but his Haki, touches Garou, it'll be as if he was being slashed from inside his body.

Also, the way that Armament Haki works is that the stronger individual wins. If Zoro has the AP advantage over Garou, his haki would likely effect him in that same way until he grows stronger (I say "likely" because the only time we've seen Armament Haki get overpowered by brute strength is when Armament is used defensively and someone overpowers it with brute strength).

One more thing. Haki isn't magic, it's spiritual energy. I don't know if Garou's dealt with anything like that or is capable of deflecting something like that off the top of my head.

Moving on from Haki, I'm gonna actually start talking about the combatants now. Off the cuff, Garou's Instinctive Reaction and Reactive Evolution will give him great advantages. However, Zoro has advantages of his own. Zoro's Ichi Ni Gorilla would boost his offensive power, as would Asura. Armament Haki also functions as a defense and offense buff, which would allow him to block more powerful attacks from Garou, and it also buffs his attack along with the added perks of dura neg and emission, which would allow him to increase the range on his sword swings.

Speaking of range, even if Garou made a decent amount of distance, Zoro outranges massively and could spam sword slashes that reach hundreds of meters while Garou's best ranged option (should it even get to the point where they try zoning each other) would be Whirlwind Iron Cutting Fist, which only reaches several meters.

Both these guys are built different when it comes to pain tolerance, too. Just throwing that out there.

I didn't cover Zoro's Observation Haki since I don't know if he's really done anything impressive with it (or shown it that much, for that matter) in the Wano Arc. I will say that what he has shown of it in other arcs, though, is that he probably won't get mixed as often by Garou should he try something like using Watchdog Man's movements, since his level of Haki would allow him to sense Garou's presence in his vicinity.

Not quite sure who wins, but I think I'm leaning a bit more toward Zoro.

Oh, and tl;dr Zoro's dura neg could probably go through WSRSF due to the fact that it's spiritual energy being sent into Garou's body that does the damage, and I don't think Garou resists that.
 
Ourosboros said:
Garou has instinctive reaction as well, he's actually able to fight effectively and stragetically in his sleep in a weaker form than this.

Precognition will definitely be a factor, but if Garou can survive long enough he will eventually become much stronger than Zoro via his reactive evolution so it may not matter if it doesn't win the fight for Zoro will it's still even
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I was talking about Garou the entire time.
 
Kin201 said:
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Nvm, I was wrong, thank you for the clarification.

So Garou does have a predictive ability that functions like precognition, nvm. Even if Zoro's proficient in this key, Garou's not completely outclassed in this regard.
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
I was talking about Garou the entire time.
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Oh lol.
ZoroNotZolo said:
One more thing. Haki isn't magic, it's spiritual energy. I don't know if Garou's dealt with anything like that or is capable of deflecting something like that off the top of my head.

Speaking of range, even if Garou made a decent amount of distance, Zoro outranges massively and could spam sword slashes that reach hundreds of meters while Garou's best ranged option (should it even get to the point where they try zoning each other) would be Whirlwind Iron Cutting Fist, which only reaches several meters.

Oh, and tl;dr Zoro's dura neg could probably go through WSRSF due to the fact that it's spiritual energy being sent into Garou's body that does the damage, and I don't think Garou resists that.
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Well, Haki is still transmitted via physical means right? It has to be conveyed through the weapon or his arm, so if Garou could keep a good distance between the haki vector and himself he could still avoid it, right? I'm really not sure how that works, if the weapon doesn't need to make contact or get very close it probably would bypass a standard application of WSRSF.
 
Zoro.


Both are similar enough in terms of skill, and neither combatant has faced against opponents with similar skill sets. Zoro is leagues and bounds above any swordsmen Garou has faced, but hasn't faced any hand to hand fighters like Garou.


Also Zoro's Durability Negation being "Possible" is there to avoid NLF's, he can still utilize it in combat against fleshy foes. His strikes can slash apart foes who are made of steel, a material that's inherently harder to cut than flesh. It doesn't help Garou that Zoro has regeneration negation and in character he attacks the neck and head. (Usually going for decapitation or slashing his foes in half.)




Tatsumaki attacks are also gonna help Zoro out here tremendously as Garou hasn't been shown to deflect wind based attacks, let alone giant twisters of highly composed razer sharp wind slashes.
 
Ourosboros said:
Well, Haki is still transmitted via physical means right? It has to be conveyed through the weapon or his arm, so if Garou could keep a good distance between the haki vector and himself he could still avoid it, right? I'm really not sure how that works, if the weapon doesn't need to make contact or get very close it probably would bypass a standard application of WSRSF.
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I mean, in Zoro's case, the Haki would be coming from the sword, but would flow into Garou's body. It doesn't require physical contact. For example, in the Luffy gif I sent, his fist actually stops short of the tree, the Haki flows in, internal damage ensues.

But a better and more clear example would be these guys:
1000


The internal damage is a tricked out version of the emission technique with Armament Haki, exactly what these two are using to clash swords without even touching each other.
 
LordGinSama said:
Both are similar enough in terms of skill, and neither combatant has faced against opponents with similar skill sets. Zoro is leagues and bounds above any swordsmen Garou has faced, but hasn't faced any hand to hand fighters like Garou.
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This is fair but I think Garou is still a better fighter overall, because he apparently has a strategic mind than Zoro. He can also adapt to his fighting styles and possibly find out a way to counter them if he survives and observes him long enough.
LordGinSama said:
Also Zoro's Durability Negation being "Possible" is there to avoid NLF's, he can still utilize it in combat against fleshy foes. His strikes can slash apart foes who are made of steel, a material that's inherently harder to cut than flesh. It doesn't help Garou that Zoro has regeneration negation and in character he attacks the neck and head. (Usually going for decapitation or slashing his foes in half.)
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Garou's regeneration is different from Logia DF user's. Zoro just negates their Intangibility, damaging their true bodies, because Garou physically regenerates himself, it is different. Garou can arguably deflect his sword strikes since they are physical attacks, and it's not like he will present Zoro with his neck so that he can slice it in half. Garou's skills and techniques should help him avoid that. He also has the AP advantage, Zoro will not slice him in half with ease, but he will leave him with deep wounds, which Garo can regenerate from. Zoro doesn't slice someone who is stronger than himself in half even if he has limited dura neg.
LordGinSama said:
Tatsumaki attacks are also gonna help Zoro out here tremendously as Garou hasn't been shown to deflect wind based attacks, let alone giant twisters of highly composed razer sharp wind slashes.
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Garou has comparable lifting strength to Zoro, so he will resist being pulled in by Zoro's tornado and can escape it, and it is not enough to put Garou down for good either, since he has Low-Mid regen, which can heal him from deep and cut wounds, internal damage, etc..
 
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Kin201 said:
Garou's regeneration is different from Logia DF user's. Zoro just negates their Intangibility, damaging their true bodies, because Garou physically regenerates himself, it is different
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Garp's haki negated Marco's regen and he has both elemental intangibility and physical regeneration, Zoro should have comparable busoshoku to him due to it being advanced.
 
Ourosboros said:
EDIT: I see he's listed as a proficient user on his page, but the Haki page has him as a rudimentary user. Is he proficient in this key or rudimentary?
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Yes he has proficient, my bad I forgot to update the haki page.

EDIT: the Haki page has been edited to clear up the confusion
 
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Eminiteable said:
Yes he has proficient, my bad I forgot to update the haki page.

EDIT: the Haki page has been edited to clear up the confusion
Click to expand...

Dang, he has proficient CoO? That should definitely give him a solid leg up, especially given its applications:

Proficient Haki Users: Haki users in this class have the capacity to sense events transpiring over a large distance away (typically several kilometers), and can actively see glimpses into the future, and sense exactly how those within range feel and what their next set of actions will be. Users of this level can use all the basic applications of this power to a higher degree and do not have issues with functionality like those of lower tiers.
Click to expand...

As long as Zoro is composed, he should be able to utilize these abilities to the fullest degree.
 
So Garou's precog and Zoro's observation haki cancel each other out, Zoro has a range advantage but they start close enough that Garou can still hit him (several hundred meters vs tens of meters with Spiral Garou type Whirlwind Iron-Cutting Fist) and Zoro's haki should nullify Garou's physical regeneration. However, Zoro needs to still kill Garou quickly and decapitate him, because if he doesn't annihilate Garou, Garou's reactive evolution will increase Garou's AP advantage, durability and speed (if the speed amp is allowed with speed equalized) to the point where he will be several times stronger than Zoro. For this to happen, Zoro really only needs to challenge Garou for a couple minutes (we see Garou's power visibly multiplying in at most a few minutes during the Rover, Orochi and Darkshine fights).

I think Garou takes this if he can survive at short range for a minute or two, similiar situation with the ranged attacks. His mimicry should allow him to contend with Zoro's technique no problem, so it becomes a question of if he can avoid the haki enough to overpower Zoro.

If Zoro tries to outrange him, that actually plays into Garou's game because Zoro's ace here seems to be his regen nullification and he can't apply that on the ranged slashes can he? So if Garou is severely injured without being annihilated, he would regen and get up multiple times stronger.

I think Garou takes this more often than he loses it, so I will vote for Garou.

Most of that is invalid if Zoro can apply regen nullification at range
 
Garou can deflect sword strikes, has ultra instinct, adapts ridiculously quickly and has dumb high pain tolerance and regen, my guy can fight without a rib cage like wtf. I don't think zoro can win this although does anyone know their respective APs?
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Garou can deflect sword strikes, has ultra instinct, adapts ridiculously quickly and has dumb high pain tolerance and regen, my guy can fight without a rib cage like wtf. I don't think zoro can win this although does anyone know their respective APs?
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Fighting with a broken rib is nothing to what Zoro has gone through lol.
 
No it isn't a broken rib, Garou was pretty much on deaths door and was fighting dark shine while asleep, then he got his rib cage, NOT A RIB, I mean his entire ******* ribcage shattered. And after all that he was still GETTING STRONGER!!!
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
Garou can deflect sword strikes, has ultra instinct, adapts ridiculously quickly and has dumb high pain tolerance and regen, my guy can fight without a rib cage like wtf. I don't think zoro can win this although does anyone know their respective APs?
Click to expand...
Zoro scales far above baseline 7-A+, and current Garou scales somewhere above 751 megatons (halfway to High 7-A) so they'd be comparable with upscaling. Without upscaling (the upscaling thread is still going on so maybe we shouldn't use it), Garou has a slight advantage with Gouketsu's feat.
LordGinSama said:
Fighting with a broken rib is nothing to what Zoro has gone through lol.
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The ribcage was shattered, so it's not like a bone or two was broken, his vitals were notably damaged as well. But Garou has better demonstrations of his type 2 immortality, namely being roasted inside out and getting a hole blown his abdomen. Zoro's pain resistance is incredible, but if Garou has the edge in this regard
 
Lol, ninja'd Garou's ribcage being shattered. Point is Garou can afford to lose a few minor organs, get his vitals squeezed, be impaled a couple times and keep fighting as usual even if the regen doesn't kick in
 
Ourosboros said:
If Zoro tries to outrange him, that actually plays into Garou's game because Zoro's ace here seems to be his regen nullification and he can't apply that on the ranged slashes can he? So if Garou is severely injured without being annihilated, he would regen and get up multiple times stronger.
Click to expand...
Zoro can apply haki on his ranged slashes.
 
The slashes are by no means unavoidable for Garou, ideally for Garou he takes enough damage to get a zenkai without being torn from the inside out.
Eminiteable said:
Zoro can apply haki on his ranged slashes.
Click to expand...
I just learned he did put haki on that ranged slash to Monet's cheek. What's the best ranged haki feat he has? If he can destroy Garou's insides with a couple slashes that's a win for him. But he does need to destroy Garou with decapitation or something dramatic like that to finish him, not just cut a few holes in him
 
Hm, let me point some things that can help Garou
1-Garou can avoid Zoro hits due his Reactive evolution, but Zoro also can use precog to avoid Garou attacks, so, meh
2-Assuming that they won't kill each other in these few moments, Garou eventually will fully adapt to Zoro and outclass him in AP and Speed, and it eventually can be a victory, my vote is for Garou now
 
What are zoro's advantages? I assume observation haki but garou has ultra instinct so I wonder who has the advantage. Zoro has a range advantage but the fight starts at 10 meters so that's out. Zoro has durability negation but garou can deflect and can even deflect ranged attacks.
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
What are zoro's advantages? I assume observation haki but garou has ultra instinct so I wonder who has the advantage. Zoro has a range advantage but the fight starts at 10 meters so that's out. Zoro has durability negation but garou can deflect and can even deflect ranged attacks.
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I dont think that Garou can deflect durability negation, he kinda has no feats to it, but Garou can easily avoid zoro hits
 
FluffyCreatureZ said:
What are zoro's advantages? I assume observation haki but garou has ultra instinct so I wonder who has the advantage. Zoro has a range advantage but the fight starts at 10 meters so that's out. Zoro has durability negation but garou can deflect and can even deflect ranged attacks.
Click to expand...
Precog being able counter it writtten as one of the drawbacks of instinctive reaction.
 
Bernkastelll said:
I dont think that Garou can deflect durability negation, he kinda has no feats to it, but Garou can easily avoid zoro hits
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I don't know about easily, Zoro has very good predictive/analytical skills himself beyond observation haki, he can understand techniques and their function. However, Garou can straight up copy techniques so he has the advantage there
 
Ourosboros said:
I don't know about easily, Zoro has very good predictive/analytical skills himself beyond observation haki, he can understand techniques and their function. However, Garou can straight up copy techniques so he has the advantage there
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Good point, anyways, as I said, if we assume that both can't rlly kill each other in these first moments of the fight, Garou eventually will outclass Zoro in AP and Speed, which can be a victory
 
Bernkastelll said:
Good point, anyways, as I said, if we assume that both can't rlly kill each other in these first moments of the fight, Garou eventually will outclass Zoro in AP and Speed, which can be a victory
Click to expand...
Right, Zoro has to outland Garou to win since Garou has the advantages of reactive evolution, type 2 immortality and higher starting AP if we can't use upscaling. Garou does die if Zoro takes his head off or something similar, but Garou could survive and fight through certain types of damage that would kill Zoro and if he does survive his strength, dura and speed will multiply, he'll gain new resistances and possibly new useful abilities
 
Ourosboros said:
Right, Zoro has to outland Garou to win since Garou has the advantages of reactive evolution, type 2 immortality and higher starting AP if we can't use upscaling. Garou does die if Zoro takes his head off or something similar, but Garou could survive and fight through certain types of damage that would kill Zoro and if he does survive his strength, dura and speed will multiply, he'll gain new resistances and possibly new useful abilities
Click to expand...
Indeed, for these reasons, my vote goes to Garou
 
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