Why Kashin Koji isn’t Low 5B

[sageof8paths]

The main problem with there being controversy in this thread is Jigen’s profile. In the thread I made that was accepted, it proposed jigen being low 5B because him being above the majestic attire susano but that isn’t put in his profile

 

[sageof8paths]

S

The main problem with there being controversy in this thread is Jigen’s profile. In the thread I made that was accepted, it proposed jigen being low 5B because him being above the majestic attire susano but that isn’t put in his profile

So people think he’s low 5B for the wrong reasons. And that’s especially why he can’t be low 5B because it’s stated he’s weaker than then

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

Either way I'm confused as to what is being proposed here.

Base Koji should be 5C for scaling above Delta whilst with Sage Mode Low 5B for being able to swap hands and even take hits from Isshiki.

It seems pretty simple to me. What's with the downgrade?

This.

10% of small planet level is still scales higher than Multi continental, so anyone who put him at multi continental is wrong and Sage mode multiplier is also matter here even tho it's already gettin thrown out, it's still relevant to the story since Naruto and sasuke is able to getting stomped by "Partial form Ootsusuki" jigen, while KK Alone with sage mode fought "True Form" isshiki and was able to swap hand with him better than both naruto and sasuke.

Not to mention he scales above Delta, so if anybody want to put him into Multi continental, it doesn't make any sense, if you want to downgrade his base to below moon, then you must downgrade Delta too

If you want me to tell you where do i must put koji tier, then it would be like this.
"5C Base (Scales to delta and fought 10% Partial form Jigen) , 5C+/L5B with sage mode (Fought isshiki and was able to swap hand with him several time without immediately getting stomped). "

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I'm talking to a wall.

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

I'm talking to a wall.

Either am i .
He still put a good fight againts Partial Form jigen in base (with some tricks) and againts "TRUE FORM" Isshiki

If anyone ask me where do i must scales him,
Then

"5C Base (Scales to delta and fought 10% Partial form Jigen) , 5C+/L5B with sage mode (Fought isshiki and was able to swap hand with him several time without immediately getting stomped). "

 

[Nullflowerblush]

We call this phenomenon "circular scaling".

Essentially, Naruto and Sasuke closely downscale from a healthy and full power Karma Jigen, and Kashin scales to a drained Karma Jigen, operating at less than 10% of his original strength. Even if we do assume that Jigen was exactly at 10% at this point—which is objectively wrong—and that Sage Mode is a ten-times increase—which was recently bunked—he would only scale to 100% Karma Jigen, who is 5-C+.

And, why do you people keep trying to pedal the idea that "Kashin downscales from Isshiki because he 'swapped hands' with him"? I already explained that Isshiki was handling Kashin like he would a child (also, please refer to the "base Naruto upgrade logic"), and it was further established that Kashin was completely powerless against Isshiki, something that Amado admits.

In fact, he immediately claims afterwards that Naruto and Sasuke are the only ones with the power needed to take on Isshiki, something he stated that Kashin lacks, so we have explicit confirmation that Kashin is overall weaker than Naruto and Sasuke.

With that being said, how does he scale above (Low 5-B) two characters (5-C+) that are directly stated to have more power than he does???

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

We call this phenomenon "circular scaling".

Essentially, Naruto and Sasuke closely downscale from a healthy and full power Karma Jigen, and Kashin scales to a drained Karma Jigen, operating at less than 10% of his original strength. Even if we do assume that Jigen was exactly at 10% at this point—which is objectively wrong—and that Sage Mode is a ten-times increase—which was recently bunked—he would only scale to 100% Karma Jigen, who is 5-C+.

And, why do you people keep trying to pedal the idea that "Kashin downscales from Isshiki because he 'swapped hands' with him"? I already explained that Isshiki was handling Kashin like he would a child (also, please refer to the "base Naruto upgrade logic"), and it was further established that Kashin was completely powerless against Isshiki, something that Amado admits.

In fact, he immediately claims afterwards that Naruto and Sasuke are the only ones with the power needed to take on Isshiki, something he stated that Kashin lacks, so we have explicit confirmation that Kashin is overall weaker than Naruto and Sasuke.

With that being said, how does he scale above (Low 5-B) two characters (5-C+) that are directly stated to have more power than he does???

Oh shoot! He brought out the chart!

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

We call this phenomenon "circular scaling".

And, why do you people keep trying to pedal the idea that "Kashin downscales from Isshiki because he 'swapped hands' with him"? I already explained that Isshiki was handling Kashin like he would a child (also, please refer to the "base Naruto upgrade logic")

The difference between base naruto and KK fought jigen is
KK doesn't immediately getting stomped by his stronger enemy
And he also actually hold his own againts a more stronger opponent afterward

So base naruto upgrade logic wouldn't be relevant here

and it was further established that Kashin was completely powerless against Isshiki, something that Amado admits.In fact, he immediately claims afterwards that Naruto and Sasuke are the only ones with the power needed to take on Isshiki, something he stated that Kashin lacks, so we have explicit confirmation that Kashin is overall weaker than Naruto and Sasuke.

And Sasuke admits that he Couldn't do anything againts "jigen" , how they gonna fight dude who even stronger than it,
Boruto also said something like that.

Amado also said Naruto and Sasuke might have a chance, Because they are the only ones with the power who could go againts a god, amado said "might" Doesn't makes it automaticly true, different from his statement to Koji since he was his creator.
Scan

We really must takes even a Direct statement case by case, if we don't do it, then Boro being stronger than Delta already applied here

With that being said, how does he scale above (Low 5-B) two characters (5-C+) that are directly stated to have more power than he does???

I'm fine with the 5C+ or even L5B (i also kinda sus to it) but he must scales above narsas in term of power with sage mode since he fought isshiki better than naruto and Sasuke who getting Knocked out faster than koji

 

[Nullflowerblush]

You've just been repeating the same points that everybody else has been repeating—the same points that I have countered repeatedly.

The difference between base naruto and KK fought jigen is
KK doesn't immediately getting stomped by his stronger enemy

Neither does Naruto.

 

[Antvasima]

@Nullflowerblush @sageof8paths

Would you be willing to write summaries of the discussion so far as well please?

 

[Nullflowerblush]

Would you be willing to write summaries of the discussion so far as well please?

Arguments for Kashin scaling to Low 5-B:

• Kashin was not immediately stomped by Partial Otsutsuki Form Jigen
• Kashin was not immediately stomped by Isshiki; Sage Mode
• Kashin and Isshiki presumably briefly exchanged blows with each other
• Isshiki attacked Kashin's with invisible attacks in response to his Massive Rasengan, suggesting that Kashin could've harmed him

Arguments against Kashin scaling to Low 5-B:

• Kashin fought comparably to Karma Jigen, who was running on less than 10% of his full power after battling Naruto and Sasuke
• Kashin chose to avoid direct confrontation with POF Jigen—again, <10%—and instead went immediately for his instant-kill fire summoning move
• Isshiki effortlessly blocked Kashin's blow—they were not swapping hands
• Isshiki stated to Kashin that he was ultimately powerless against him and could not hope to defeat him
• Isshiki ultimately stomped Kashin with little to no effort
• Amado, knowing the capabilities of all three, stated that Naruto and Sasuke had a better chance of taking on Isshiki than Kashin
  • This introduces a circular scaling, as Naruto and Sasuke, who are 5-C+, are clearly more powerful than Kashin, who is argued as being Low 5-B. The only way to rectify this would be to upgrade Naruto and Sasuke to Low 5-B scaling off of Isshiki, who is stronger than them.
• Sage Mode is no longer a ten-times multiplier, so his current Low 5-B justification is no longer viable.

 

[Antvasima]

Arguments for Kashin scaling to Low 5-B:

• Kashin was not immediately stomped by Partial Otsutsuki Form Jigen
• Kashin was not immediately stomped by Isshiki; Sage Mode
• Kashin and Isshiki presumably briefly exchanged blows with each other
• Isshiki attacked Kashin's with invisible attacks in response to his Massive Rasengan, suggesting that Kashin could've harmed him

Arguments against Kashin scaling to Low 5-B:

• Kashin fought comparably to Karma Jigen, who was running on less than 10% of his full power after battling Naruto and Sasuke
• Kashin chose to avoid direct confrontation with POF Jigen—again, <10%—and instead went immediately for his instant-kill fire summoning move
• Isshiki effortlessly blocked Kashin's blow—they were not swapping hands
• Isshiki stated to Kashin that he was ultimately powerless against him and could not hope to defeat him
• Isshiki ultimately stomped Kashin with little to no effort
• Amado, knowing the capabilities of all three, stated that Naruto and Sasuke had a better chance of taking on Isshiki than Kashin
  • This introduces a circular scaling, as Naruto and Sasuke, who are 5-C+, are clearly more powerful than Kashin, who is argued as being Low 5-B. The only way to rectify this would be to upgrade Naruto and Sasuke to Low 5-B scaling off of Isshiki, who is stronger than them.
• Sage Mode is no longer a ten-times multiplier, so his current Low 5-B justification is no longer viable.

Thank you for helping out.

@Elizhaa @TISSG7Redgrave @Shadowbokunohero @Soldier_Blue @DarkDragonMedeus @DemonGodMitchAubin @M3X @Jvando @Ionliosite @LordGriffin1000 @Mr._Bambu

Would you be willing to help evaluate this please?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Like other staff, I said I was fine with the downgrade.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. If there is a staff consensus here, the downgrade can probably be applied.

 

[RamadhanDayYet]

You've just been repeating the same points that everybody else has been repeating—the same points that I have countered repeatedly.

either you are and everyone should be thinking like that

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Arguments for Kashin scaling to Low 5-B:

• Kashin was not immediately stomped by Partial Otsutsuki Form Jigen
• Kashin was not immediately stomped by Isshiki; Sage Mode
• Kashin and Isshiki presumably briefly exchanged blows with each other
• Isshiki attacked Kashin's with invisible attacks in response to his Massive Rasengan, suggesting that Kashin could've harmed him

Arguments against Kashin scaling to Low 5-B:

• Kashin fought comparably to Karma Jigen, who was running on less than 10% of his full power after battling Naruto and Sasuke
• Kashin chose to avoid direct confrontation with POF Jigen—again, <10%—and instead went immediately for his instant-kill fire summoning move
• Isshiki effortlessly blocked Kashin's blow—they were not swapping hands
• Isshiki stated to Kashin that he was ultimately powerless against him and could not hope to defeat him
• Isshiki ultimately stomped Kashin with little to no effort
• Amado, knowing the capabilities of all three, stated that Naruto and Sasuke had a better chance of taking on Isshiki than Kashin
  • This introduces a circular scaling, as Naruto and Sasuke, who are 5-C+, are clearly more powerful than Kashin, who is argued as being Low 5-B. The only way to rectify this would be to upgrade Naruto and Sasuke to Low 5-B scaling off of Isshiki, who is stronger than them.
• Sage Mode is no longer a ten-times multiplier, so his current Low 5-B justification is no longer viable.

If this is correct, I'm gonna agree with downgrading him.

 

[Elizhaa]

The downgrade seems fine.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Downgrade is fine.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. The downgrade can probably be applied then.

 

[sageof8paths]

Who ever is editing the profile should also edit Isshiki’s to say should be above the majestic attire susano

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. The downgrade can probably be applied then.

Is somebody willing to handle this.

 

[sageof8paths]

Is somebody willing to handle this.

I have no idea how to apply the changes

 

[Antvasima]

Really? I think that I have seen you edit wiki profile pages earlier, or at least somebody with a similar username.

Anyway, is somebody else here willing to handle it then please?

 

[Archinord991]

I have no idea how to apply the changes

I think you can ask King Tempest for help, since he is a staff and Naruto supporter.

 

[Galvino]

Anyway, is somebody else here willing to handle it then please?

I made the changes.

 

[The_Alxhemist]

This can probably be closed then

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out. Did only one page need to be updated, or are other characters scaled from it?

 

[The_Alxhemist]

No one scales to Koji

 

[Galvino]

As far as I know, I don't think anyone scaled to Sage Mode Kashin Koji.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Is it fine if I close this thread then?

 

[The_Alxhemist]

Yup it's fine. Thanks Ant

 

[Sus]

We call this phenomenon "circular scaling".

Essentially, Naruto and Sasuke closely downscale from a healthy and full power Karma Jigen, and Kashin scales to a drained Karma Jigen, operating at less than 10% of his original strength. Even if we do assume that Jigen was exactly at 10% at this point—which is objectively wrong—and that Sage Mode is a ten-times increase—which was recently bunked—he would only scale to 100% Karma Jigen, who is 5-C+.

And, why do you people keep trying to pedal the idea that "Kashin downscales from Isshiki because he 'swapped hands' with him"? I already explained that Isshiki was handling Kashin like he would a child (also, please refer to the "base Naruto upgrade logic"), and it was further established that Kashin was completely powerless against Isshiki, something that Amado admits.

In fact, he immediately claims afterwards that Naruto and Sasuke are the only ones with the power needed to take on Isshiki, something he stated that Kashin lacks, so we have explicit confirmation that Kashin is overall weaker than Naruto and Sasuke.

With that being said, how does he scale above (Low 5-B) two characters (5-C+) that are directly stated to have more power than he does???

this makes too much sense it scares me

 

[Antvasima]

Yup it's fine. Thanks Ant

Okay. No problem.