YueNoMoral
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although there a slight in-verse scaling problems
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๐๐ง๐+ ๐จ๐ฝ๐ด๐ฟ๐ฎ๐ฑ๐ฒ ๐ฃ๐ฎ๐ฟ๐ ๐ฎ.
- Thread starter Xyra
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Godlord how the hell you can comes up with that yapping?
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You should look in the mirror, the explanation you came up with was really bad, lol
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Oversimplification
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Bro Are you trying to say that Juubi have infinite Speed cauze juubi have an unlimited chakra ?
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Call knowledgeable members like UchihaSlayer.
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what about sage mode
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So right now, we donโt accept that base Koji scales to Delta whatsoever. The only Koji that might scale to Delta is Sage Mode Koji. But Koji doesnโt use Sage Mode until Jigen transforms into Isshiki. So thereโs no scaling chain that places 10% Jigen ~ Delta in speed. Tmk this OP is trying to get FTL+ via the 10% stuff and using that as a multiplier on top of FTL speed, which doesnโt work at all. Also if you check Kojiโs profile, heโs Sub-Relativistuc, 10x Kojiโs speed is only making him Relativistic.
Edit: the OP is also using calculations we donโt even accept. And appears to be trying to reuse the same โ10% Jigen scales to Naruto and Sasukeโ argument thatโs already been debunked. Reason I bring that up is you have to wait 3-4 months before revisiting a thread thatโs already been debunked.
Edit: the OP is also using calculations we donโt even accept. And appears to be trying to reuse the same โ10% Jigen scales to Naruto and Sasukeโ argument thatโs already been debunked. Reason I bring that up is you have to wait 3-4 months before revisiting a thread thatโs already been debunked.
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I see no new arguments here. Y'all are treading on thin ice right now with this topic, because there's a very compelling argument that could be made for a Discussion Rule to be put in place.
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Yeah, like I've said, this thread is useless. It's basically like reopening an old thread that has already been closed by the Staff. No new arguments at all and it's repetitive considering the OP doesn't seem the comprehend most of the things that are said to him...
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Initial premise, we will explain what chakras are, and are they useful for some other physical aspects? Chakra is a spiritual energy that can be controlled and applied to produce a technique which is usually called Jutsu. Apart from being able to be applied like that, chakra has a correlation with stamina. They reproduce each other consistently, and are a symbiotic mutualism, because if a Shinobi spends a lot of chakra/stamina, they will automatically weaken. However, if a Shinobi has 100% stamina, they will be able to give some of it chakra to create a Jutsu ( https://gyazo.com/53ed98762821ea81019aa54e6515d153 ). In general, stamina also plays a big role in statistics. Because if a creature doesn't have stamina, how will it move? ( https://id.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/stamina ) and this is evident in the Naruto fiction ( ).
And here I will give some feats in Naruto verse, which prove that chakra has an effect on increasing speed. It can be seen in the scan that I gave, where the speed will drop drastically if the chakra is low, of course this is enough to prove that chakra can increase speed, and the speed itself is slow if the chakra is low
You can also see in other scans that Shikamaru's speed decreases drastically when his chakra is almost depleted, Shikamaru himself even said that because of his minimal chakra, he failed to attack his opponent (because his shadow speed was reduced).
For other evidence, here it can be seen that shinobi are able to increase their physical abilities by using chakra to increase their speed by focusing chakra on their feet, this is a basic shinobi technique where naturally every shinobi who makes movements is already in this technique
The Mechanics of Chakra Enhancement
vsbattles.fandom.com
And for final proof, you can see Raikage neutralizing his chakra to increase Raikage's own speed, it can be seen that he has maximized his speed with the remaining chakra, also supported by Bee who states "He is in his highest speed mode" which is where we can conclude, that Raikage has maximized all his chakra (until you see a very large chakra aura coming out) to increase his own speed ( & )
The next explanation is when Isshiki's fight against the Konoha Duo is over, there Isshiki says that he used up more power than he thought ( ) Which indicates that Isshiki really didn't use his full power at all. during the fight against the Konoha Duo, because Jigen was no longer strong enough to use Isshiki's chakra. Even when that incident occurred, Jigen, Isshiki's vessel, cried. So Jigen is one of the flawed vessels that doesn't even deserve to be Isshiki's vessel ( https://gyazo.com/ff09cb4558d6be57fbfe0ea1587c76bb & https://imgur.com/gcJZoUF ) who is only considered as an intermediary for Isshiki looking for the perfect vessel ( Kawaki ).
Continue here, as shown in the Jigen vs Duo Konoha scan. Since the fight, Jigen immediately recovered his chakra. On the other hand, Amado stated that Jigen's chakra was almost zero (https://gyazo.com/ca7e9f1dd0704966629c1a1fa66e23ed) Even though we can clearly see the content of the fight if Jigen didn't use many of his jutsu. Yes, at most it's just iron, a seal to seal Naruto (I don't know what the name is) the rest is just taijutsu. Can this provide a slight conclusion that at that time Isshiki was not releasing 100% power? The answer is yes, you need to know first that Jigen's power is 100% โ Isshiki's 100% because Jigen at 100% can only use a few percent of Isshiki's chakra, not that much. And continue with the explanation.
There was a notification from Amado to Kashin Koji that Jigen's recovery had not even reached 10% ( https://gyazo.com/c44b9fa8db55b50bce32060a420929d4 ). This context is not Isshiki who fought against the Konoha Duo using only 10% of his strength. This context is Jigen who ran out of chakra after fighting NaruSaru, where when he fought NaruSaru, Jigen released all his chakra until he was left now, so in short Jigen fought NaruSaru with Full Power, so after the fight, Jigen ran out of chakra and was filling his chakra, well current position while it is being refilled, it is known that Jigen's current chakra position is 10%.
Still focusing on the previous proof. Where there is an interpretation of the context of the scenario where a battle will occur between Isshiki, who has not yet reached 10% recovery, will fight against Kashin Koji. Kashin Koji's speed gap can be compared to Delta, namely ftl speed because he is qualitatively superior to Delta. Where Koji states himself that he can relatively beat Delta, which means this indicates that Kashin Koji is superior to Delta ( https://imgur.io/a/h5fYzel ) As for Delta's own speed gap, it will be generalized to Naruto, because there is a proof that Delta was able to fight on par with Naruto ( https://i.imgur.com/m9e4xrn.jpg )
Continuing here, with Jigen's ability not even reaching 10% recovery, he is still able to pared with Kashin Koji ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zolyvmanga/boruto-naruto-next-generations/chapter-46/8 .jpg ) What's more, if Kashin Koji there uses sage mode, you know for yourself what benefits you get when someone uses sage mode. Yes, even though in the end Isshiki himself decided to immediately get up using a disabled container (Jigen)
Yes, this actually created a reverse situation, where Isshiki was able to defeat Kashin Koji easily. A premise that shows Isshiki's superiority after awakening with 100% power (real body), where Isshiki can immediately spam jutsu against Kashin Koji which was not previously shown in the fight against the Konoha Duo. And here is a list of Isshiki's abilities that are released when using Real Body:
โข Dojutsu.
Isshiki's left eye is Byakugan, and his right eye is Dharmagan ( https://i.imgur.com/SCsTcH7.jpg ).
โข Sukunahikona.
Isshiki can reduce the size of himself and other inanimate objects so that he can use them in battle ( https://i.imgur.com/04a4Y5r.jpg ).
โข Daikokuten.
Isshiki can have his own version of the dimension, where he can store various objects whose size he reduces. So this is technically similar to Kamui, but the difference is that the object he enters here must be reduced in size first with Sukunahikona.
There is an explanation that must be explained regarding Isshiki's capabilities and jutsu when he is at full power. Yup, none other than a scan of Isshiki's last battle against the Konoha Duo. ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zoly...t-generations/chapter-38-he-s-bad-news/21.jpg ) power development that is significantly superior to using containers ( Jigen), Isshiki can continuously outspeed the Konoha Duo and bombard them. Spamming his Dojutsu power by taking out a large cube, cornering the object, which was clearly not previously shown in Jigen's battle against the Konoha Duo. Yeah this was before Naruto used Baryon mode.
Let's continue, this is the final case being discussed, during Naruto Baryon mode, it is clear that Isshiki was hit by an all-out blitz by Naruto, the position here is that Naruto wins hands down ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zolyvmanga/boruto/chapter52/010. jpg ), this position can be seen with Naruto's new form, increasing his speed significantly so that he can attack Isshiki, even though previously Naruto was completely beaten by Isshiki (before using Baryon mode). From here the speed statistical conclusion that we can draw is Naruto Baryon > Isshiki Full Power > Jigen Full Power = Naruto (Exclude Baryon) & Sasuke > Jigen 10% > Koji > Delta.
I also want to respond to people who make negative assumptions regarding this topic:
โข Many people say that Amado's statement is just a form of wild speculation, but it is something you should know. Amado is known as an observer and researcher, he is a former Inner from the Kara organization, he created Cyborg. Isshiki is occupying Jigen's body to become his new host, of course Amado knows that. After receiving information that Amado was the head of the research division in the Kara organization, there was no doubt about his interpretation. The cyborgs he has created are Koji, Delta, Eida and Daemon. With a vision and mission to eliminate Isshiki after finding out Isshiki's true goal of destroying the planet in order to evolve. Amado has learned many things, there is no doubt about the speculation he has implemented, with credibility seen through his status ( https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Amado_Sanzu ). With evidence that Amado is someone who is established in the field of research and creation of Cyborgs. In addition, the interpretation of Vsb which correlates with a statement from a researcher who studied the character is reliable (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Statements).
โข There are also those who assume that if Isshiki had a speed that was 10ร faster than Naruto (excluding Byron) and Sasuke, then Sasuke would not be able to see Isshiki's movements when fighting Naruto ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zolyvmanga /boruto/chapter52/010.jpg ) because Sasuke's reaction speed was clearly far below that of Isshiki and Naruto in that position. But on the other hand, Sasuke said that he "almost" couldn't see the movements of the two of them ( https://i.imgur.com/eKrVuTW.jpg ), so did Sasuke also get the 10ร Multiplier? The answer is clearly no, because the average person who assumes something like this commits a Half-Truth Fallacy because interrupting the statement given by Sasuke, Sasuke said that "I can't see their movements with my Sharingan" which means we can conclude that he can see their movements with the Sharingan, but can't see their movements without the Sharingan, this can happen because with the Sharingan alone, Sasuke says "almost" can't see their movements, where the Sharingan has special abilities such as Precognition ( https:// naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Sharingan) which proves that with the presence of the Sharingan, the reaction speed of seeing can increase, but because it doesn't use real eyes (not including the Sharingan) it doesn't get any reaction speed achievements at all, because the conclusion is if without the Sharingan you cannot see his movements, so the conclusion is that the reaction speed of the Sharingan is โ the reaction speed of Sasuke physically.
โข Lastly, this is the most common and most misunderstood explanation, many people assume that if chakra = speed, why is it that Kaguya, who is known to have chakra far above Naruto, can be blitzed by Naruto? The answer is simple, this is the same as my explanation above, that 100% chakra = prime condition, every Shinobi has the capability to accommodate chakra and the chakra needs in their respective bodies, and it is always different for each individual. An easy analogy is like this, there are 2 glasses that have significant differences in size, one is 1 cm and the other is 5 cm, they can hold 100% of the water according to their capacity. the 1 cm glass can only hold 1 cm of water, and the 5 cm glass can only hold 5 cm of water. both can accommodate the whole, but the differences in capacity are relatively different.
Because this idea prioritizes speed. then we will explain the Konoha duo's speed calculations here. At least 1.03c based on calculations rewritten by Denlizt ( https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DenLitz/Naruto_dodge_Light_Fang ) it's up to you whether you want to take the manga or anime version. With the quantity of speed that Naruto has, namely FTL 1.03c. Jigen is 10% capable of On-par with Kashin Koji, while Kashin Koji = delta, and Delta = Naruto. atleast, if Jigen is 100% against Kashin Koji, he will be 10x faster than before, so; 1.03 ร 10 = 10.3 or FTL+ 10.3c.
โข Clarification of KCM Naruto speed.
The majority said that Naruto's speed when fighting Delta was lower than his speed presentation when he got the FTL 1.03c (Six path mode) achievement due to the difference in mode. Actually, we can turn around first when the Konoha duo fight Jigen in their dimension. Jigen has relatively higher speed than the Konoha Duo, because Sasuke still has the Rinnegan and Sharingan. Sasuke's speed is FTL 1.03c because he is able to Onpar with Naruto Six Path Mode when he has the Rinnegan and Sharingan in the Valley of Death [ https://*********.me/title/10016-en-naruto/1140910-vol-63-ch-695-1 | https://*********.me/title/10016-en-naruto/1140908-vol-63-ch-696-1 | https://*********.me/title/10016-en-naruto/3219738-vol-72-ch-697-1-naruto-and-sasuke-4 ]. Naruto using KCM was able to react several times to Jigen, this determines that Naruto KCM is equivalent to Jigen (FTL [1.03c]). So, Naruto's speed remains consistent at FTL 1.03c even though there is a difference in mode and the performance produced by Six Path.
๐๐จ๐ง๐๐ฅ๐ฎ๐ฌ๐ข๐จ๐ง :
โ๐๐๐ ๐ข๐ญ๐ข๐ฆ๐๐ญ๐.
โข ๐๐๐ซ๐ฎ๐ญ๐จ โโข> ๐ ๐๐+ ๐๐,๐๐.
โข ๐๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ก๐ข๐ค๐ข โโข> ๐ ๐๐+ ๐๐,๐๐.
โ๐๐จ๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ญ๐ฒ
โข ๐๐ข๐ ๐๐ง โโข> ๐ ๐๐+ ๐๐,๐๐.
โข ๐๐๐ฌ๐ฎ๐ค๐ โโข> ๐ ๐๐+ ๐๐,๐๐.
What do you mean by chakra including stamina, that's really strange
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If y'all can like freaking wait a year or something we might get more knowledge and fights on koji and he could actually scale.
But nope y'all just rush to make threads
But nope y'all just rush to make threads
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Won't work either way since the multiplier method cannot be applied here. It would just be scaled to FTL far higher at best probably
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Bro is speaking FAX
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Gotta love how none of the scans in the OP are sourced and thereโs anime scans when we donโt use the anime.
I concur with US96, a discussion rule should probably be made at this point, and the thread should be closed.
I concur with US96, a discussion rule should probably be made at this point, and the thread should be closed.
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Buddy the multiplier was long accepted a while back. What caused it to be removed is that the less than 10% jigen in question doesn't scale to ftl in the first place
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It being accepted doesn't always mean it's 100% right. I hate repeating this but chakra decreasing to 50% doesn't mean that the speed will also decrease to 50%.
Jigen being a certain speed with 10% chakra capacity doesn't make his speed go down up to 10% aswell. Simply put, a 100% Jigen wouldn't be a 10x multiplier because of this.
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What you think is irrelevant if you cannot prove it. Jigen was not at 10% chakra. Amado states jigen was at less than 10% in power. Not chakra but power. That machine jigen sits on is to repair the vessel as well as recharge. By less than 10% they are talking about his state in general. One more time power and not just chakra.
And no one says something being accepted means it is always right. It just meant the admins saw reasoning with my points better than the people opossing it. Simple
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hello to all
True, the chakra level and stats. are connected but not mathematically. This point, proves not to be linear throughout the series. Even from the point of view of the proportion of possession of the chakra this is not consistent. The chakra is not a system of power born to function on precise and reliable numerical bases.
scan
The scan you used to "proof" a calculable connection between amount of chakra and statistics is a diagram. It is a simple representation to understand how the chakra works and its inflow. Percentages and numbers are used to simplify the explanation and concept. A certain amount of chakra is produced that is subtracted from the stamina, a part of the energy produced is used and distributed, as appropriate, to use a jutsu.
a SINGLE presence of percentages and numbers is not strong enough evidence to prove a true correlation between a specific amount of power and statistics. The fact that the stats. and the chakra are connected is not a point to support the "calculation", it is necessary to prove that this numbering applies to the amount of energy. What you have tried is a general connection, you should bring examples of companies where these numbers are applied and respected. The numbers mentioned can be connected in a general or superfluous way, without actually specific data, as happens in many different ways.
scan
Kakashi declares that base Naruto has 4 times its chakra and with Kurama its chakra is 100 times greater. If these differences in quantity affected the statistics so much Naruto KCM would run no diff on Kakashi, one tap and speed blitz. Actually Naruto KCM2 of Obito Fighting Kakashi ( scan )on this Wiki however this scaling is valid https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Kakashi_Hatake
scan
Naruto only in KCM 1 has these frightening amounts of chakras. Each clone is taken of the chakra to stay in biiju mode. Killerbee in fact advises Naruto to do something similarg, but naruto does it without problems with many clones. Each clone resists for a long time and we know how the division of the chakra among the clones works. Taking a small amount of his chakra should destroy anyone. The difference between his chakra and that of the high is immense.
scan
Kakashi keeps up with Kaguya boosted by the shinobi chakra. Kakashi only had the Obito chakra which has nothing to do with the amount of chakra absorbed by Kaguya. With a small amount of chakras can keep up with who has tons of extra chakras.
scan
Naruto is relative to Kaguya with only half of the Hagoromo chakra ( the same for Sasuke )
scan
Kashi Koji keeps up with Jigen but also manages to react to Isshiki when he should make a blitz on perception and not on reaction. The same goes for Naruto, who loses in a clash with Jigen but still manages to react to some shots of isshiki. The difference between Jigen and isshiki is not small in terms of chakras.
on this wiki Kashin Koji is sub-rel. It is not considered on par with Jigen or other FTL characters. You should be able to make certain changes to my profiles first
The problem with this scaling is that with the calculation presented, a similar difference in chakra is enough for a blitz on perception. To understand us, to be so fast as to be hit repeatedly and to think: "what is hitting me?". Being 10 times faster means that the opponent doesnโt see any hits, so he canโt even react to them.
one of the points that support this scaling is : "who has more chakras" has more statistics. the chakra may increase statistics but these increases do not prove linear
( it would be your burden to prove that they are)
Characters with multiple chakras show higher energy output, so speech continues to be inconclusive.
you can not consider Sasuke at the same level as isshiki and Naruto Byron mode when Sasuke himself is impressed that Naruto can stop Isshikiโs stakes. Naruto is superior to Isshiki who does dogwalk on Sasuke. I would immediately escuderei the "possibility"
I agree with many other points made in this thread that I disagree on this scaling.
These points have been dealt with several times and have always been rejected in other threads, without new arguments it makes no sense to report the same points.
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I agree with this. A discussion rule should be created to avoid people spamming the same, old, rejected arguments.
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Bruh are you seriously with your argument?
You canโt say that person with 50% stamina is have lower speed than person who have 100% stamina. It just means that person with 100% stamina will have longer to run or move than person who have 50% stamina.
Itโs still doesnโt prove anything that chakra linier with speed.
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Closing this.
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