• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

๐—™๐—ง๐—Ÿ+ ๐—จ๐—ฝ๐—ด๐—ฟ๐—ฎ๐—ฑ๐—ฒ ๐—ฃ๐—ฎ๐—ฟ๐˜ ๐Ÿฎ.

Status
Not open for further replies.
161
38
Initial premise, we will explain what chakras are, and are they useful for some other physical aspects? Chakra is a spiritual energy that can be controlled and applied to produce a technique which is usually called Jutsu. Apart from being able to be applied like that, chakra has a correlation with stamina. They reproduce each other consistently, and are a symbiotic mutualism, because if a Shinobi spends a lot of chakra/stamina, they will automatically weaken. However, if a Shinobi has 100% stamina, they will be able to give some of it chakra to create a Jutsu ( https://gyazo.com/53ed98762821ea81019aa54e6515d153 ). In general, stamina also plays a big role in statistics. Because if a creature doesn't have stamina, how will it move? ( https://id.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/stamina ) and this is evident in the Naruto fiction ( ).

And here I will give some feats in Naruto verse, which prove that chakra has an effect on increasing speed. It can be seen in the scan that I gave, where the speed will drop drastically if the chakra is low, of course this is enough to prove that chakra can increase speed, and the speed itself is slow if the chakra is low


You can also see in other scans that Shikamaru's speed decreases drastically when his chakra is almost depleted, Shikamaru himself even said that because of his minimal chakra, he failed to attack his opponent (because his shadow speed was reduced).



For other evidence, here it can be seen that shinobi are able to increase their physical abilities by using chakra to increase their speed by focusing chakra on their feet, this is a basic shinobi technique where naturally every shinobi who makes movements is already in this technique



And for final proof, you can see Raikage neutralizing his chakra to increase Raikage's own speed, it can be seen that he has maximized his speed with the remaining chakra, also supported by Bee who states "He is in his highest speed mode" which is where we can conclude, that Raikage has maximized all his chakra (until you see a very large chakra aura coming out) to increase his own speed ( & )

The next explanation is when Isshiki's fight against the Konoha Duo is over, there Isshiki says that he used up more power than he thought ( ) Which indicates that Isshiki really didn't use his full power at all. during the fight against the Konoha Duo, because Jigen was no longer strong enough to use Isshiki's chakra. Even when that incident occurred, Jigen, Isshiki's vessel, cried. So Jigen is one of the flawed vessels that doesn't even deserve to be Isshiki's vessel ( https://gyazo.com/ff09cb4558d6be57fbfe0ea1587c76bb & https://imgur.com/gcJZoUF ) who is only considered as an intermediary for Isshiki looking for the perfect vessel ( Kawaki ).

Continue here, as shown in the Jigen vs Duo Konoha scan. Since the fight, Jigen immediately recovered his chakra. On the other hand, Amado stated that Jigen's chakra was almost zero (https://gyazo.com/ca7e9f1dd0704966629c1a1fa66e23ed) Even though we can clearly see the content of the fight if Jigen didn't use many of his jutsu. Yes, at most it's just iron, a seal to seal Naruto (I don't know what the name is) the rest is just taijutsu. Can this provide a slight conclusion that at that time Isshiki was not releasing 100% power? The answer is yes, you need to know first that Jigen's power is 100% โ‰  Isshiki's 100% because Jigen at 100% can only use a few percent of Isshiki's chakra, not that much. And continue with the explanation.

There was a notification from Amado to Kashin Koji that Jigen's recovery had not even reached 10% ( https://gyazo.com/c44b9fa8db55b50bce32060a420929d4 ). This context is not Isshiki who fought against the Konoha Duo using only 10% of his strength. This context is Jigen who ran out of chakra after fighting NaruSaru, where when he fought NaruSaru, Jigen released all his chakra until he was left now, so in short Jigen fought NaruSaru with Full Power, so after the fight, Jigen ran out of chakra and was filling his chakra, well current position while it is being refilled, it is known that Jigen's current chakra position is 10%.

Still focusing on the previous proof. Where there is an interpretation of the context of the scenario where a battle will occur between Isshiki, who has not yet reached 10% recovery, will fight against Kashin Koji. Kashin Koji's speed gap can be compared to Delta, namely ftl speed because he is qualitatively superior to Delta. Where Koji states himself that he can relatively beat Delta, which means this indicates that Kashin Koji is superior to Delta ( https://imgur.io/a/h5fYzel ) As for Delta's own speed gap, it will be generalized to Naruto, because there is a proof that Delta was able to fight on par with Naruto ( https://i.imgur.com/m9e4xrn.jpg )

Continuing here, with Jigen's ability not even reaching 10% recovery, he is still able to pared with Kashin Koji ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zolyvmanga/boruto-naruto-next-generations/chapter-46/8 .jpg ) What's more, if Kashin Koji there uses sage mode, you know for yourself what benefits you get when someone uses sage mode. Yes, even though in the end Isshiki himself decided to immediately get up using a disabled container (Jigen)


Yes, this actually created a reverse situation, where Isshiki was able to defeat Kashin Koji easily. A premise that shows Isshiki's superiority after awakening with 100% power (real body), where Isshiki can immediately spam jutsu against Kashin Koji which was not previously shown in the fight against the Konoha Duo. And here is a list of Isshiki's abilities that are released when using Real Body:

โ€ข Dojutsu.
Isshiki's left eye is Byakugan, and his right eye is Dharmagan ( https://i.imgur.com/SCsTcH7.jpg ).

โ€ข Sukunahikona.
Isshiki can reduce the size of himself and other inanimate objects so that he can use them in battle ( https://i.imgur.com/04a4Y5r.jpg ).

โ€ข Daikokuten.
Isshiki can have his own version of the dimension, where he can store various objects whose size he reduces. So this is technically similar to Kamui, but the difference is that the object he enters here must be reduced in size first with Sukunahikona.

There is an explanation that must be explained regarding Isshiki's capabilities and jutsu when he is at full power. Yup, none other than a scan of Isshiki's last battle against the Konoha Duo. ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zoly...t-generations/chapter-38-he-s-bad-news/21.jpg ) power development that is significantly superior to using containers ( Jigen), Isshiki can continuously outspeed the Konoha Duo and bombard them. Spamming his Dojutsu power by taking out a large cube, cornering the object, which was clearly not previously shown in Jigen's battle against the Konoha Duo. Yeah this was before Naruto used Baryon mode.

Let's continue, this is the final case being discussed, during Naruto Baryon mode, it is clear that Isshiki was hit by an all-out blitz by Naruto, the position here is that Naruto wins hands down ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zolyvmanga/boruto/chapter52/010. jpg ), this position can be seen with Naruto's new form, increasing his speed significantly so that he can attack Isshiki, even though previously Naruto was completely beaten by Isshiki (before using Baryon mode). From here the speed statistical conclusion that we can draw is Naruto Baryon > Isshiki Full Power > Jigen Full Power = Naruto (Exclude Baryon) & Sasuke > Jigen 10% > Koji > Delta.

I also want to respond to people who make negative assumptions regarding this topic:

โ€ข Many people say that Amado's statement is just a form of wild speculation, but it is something you should know. Amado is known as an observer and researcher, he is a former Inner from the Kara organization, he created Cyborg. Isshiki is occupying Jigen's body to become his new host, of course Amado knows that. After receiving information that Amado was the head of the research division in the Kara organization, there was no doubt about his interpretation. The cyborgs he has created are Koji, Delta, Eida and Daemon. With a vision and mission to eliminate Isshiki after finding out Isshiki's true goal of destroying the planet in order to evolve. Amado has learned many things, there is no doubt about the speculation he has implemented, with credibility seen through his status ( https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Amado_Sanzu ). With evidence that Amado is someone who is established in the field of research and creation of Cyborgs. In addition, the interpretation of Vsb which correlates with a statement from a researcher who studied the character is reliable (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Statements).

โ€ข There are also those who assume that if Isshiki had a speed that was 10ร— faster than Naruto (excluding Byron) and Sasuke, then Sasuke would not be able to see Isshiki's movements when fighting Naruto ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zolyvmanga /boruto/chapter52/010.jpg ) because Sasuke's reaction speed was clearly far below that of Isshiki and Naruto in that position. But on the other hand, Sasuke said that he "almost" couldn't see the movements of the two of them ( https://i.imgur.com/eKrVuTW.jpg ), so did Sasuke also get the 10ร— Multiplier? The answer is clearly no, because the average person who assumes something like this commits a Half-Truth Fallacy because interrupting the statement given by Sasuke, Sasuke said that "I can't see their movements with my Sharingan" which means we can conclude that he can see their movements with the Sharingan, but can't see their movements without the Sharingan, this can happen because with the Sharingan alone, Sasuke says "almost" can't see their movements, where the Sharingan has special abilities such as Precognition ( https:// naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Sharingan) which proves that with the presence of the Sharingan, the reaction speed of seeing can increase, but because it doesn't use real eyes (not including the Sharingan) it doesn't get any reaction speed achievements at all, because the conclusion is if without the Sharingan you cannot see his movements, so the conclusion is that the reaction speed of the Sharingan is โ‰  the reaction speed of Sasuke physically.

โ€ข Lastly, this is the most common and most misunderstood explanation, many people assume that if chakra = speed, why is it that Kaguya, who is known to have chakra far above Naruto, can be blitzed by Naruto? The answer is simple, this is the same as my explanation above, that 100% chakra = prime condition, every Shinobi has the capability to accommodate chakra and the chakra needs in their respective bodies, and it is always different for each individual. An easy analogy is like this, there are 2 glasses that have significant differences in size, one is 1 cm and the other is 5 cm, they can hold 100% of the water according to their capacity. the 1 cm glass can only hold 1 cm of water, and the 5 cm glass can only hold 5 cm of water. both can accommodate the whole, but the differences in capacity are relatively different.

Because this idea prioritizes speed. then we will explain the Konoha duo's speed calculations here. At least 1.03c based on calculations rewritten by Denlizt ( https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DenLitz/Naruto_dodge_Light_Fang ) it's up to you whether you want to take the manga or anime version. With the quantity of speed that Naruto has, namely FTL 1.03c. Jigen is 10% capable of On-par with Kashin Koji, while Kashin Koji = delta, and Delta = Naruto. atleast, if Jigen is 100% against Kashin Koji, he will be 10x faster than before, so; 1.03 ร— 10 = 10.3 or FTL+ 10.3c.

โ€ข Clarification of KCM Naruto speed.
The majority said that Naruto's speed when fighting Delta was lower than his speed presentation when he got the FTL 1.03c (Six path mode) achievement due to the difference in mode. Actually, we can turn around first when the Konoha duo fight Jigen in their dimension. Jigen has relatively higher speed than the Konoha Duo, because Sasuke still has the Rinnegan and Sharingan. Sasuke's speed is FTL 1.03c because he is able to Onpar with Naruto Six Path Mode when he has the Rinnegan and Sharingan in the Valley of Death [ https://*********.me/title/10016-en-naruto/1140910-vol-63-ch-695-1 | https://*********.me/title/10016-en-naruto/1140908-vol-63-ch-696-1 | https://*********.me/title/10016-en-naruto/3219738-vol-72-ch-697-1-naruto-and-sasuke-4 ]. Naruto using KCM was able to react several times to Jigen, this determines that Naruto KCM is equivalent to Jigen (FTL [1.03c]). So, Naruto's speed remains consistent at FTL 1.03c even though there is a difference in mode and the performance produced by Six Path.

๐‚๐จ๐ง๐œ๐ฅ๐ฎ๐ฌ๐ข๐จ๐ง :
โ€”๐‹๐ž๐ ๐ข๐ญ๐ข๐ฆ๐š๐ญ๐ž.
โ€ข ๐๐š๐ซ๐ฎ๐ญ๐จ โ€”โ€ข> ๐…๐“๐‹+ ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ,๐Ÿ‘๐œ.
โ€ข ๐ˆ๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ก๐ข๐ค๐ข โ€”โ€ข> ๐…๐“๐‹+ ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ,๐Ÿ‘๐œ.
โ€”๐๐จ๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐›๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ญ๐ฒ
โ€ข ๐‰๐ข๐ ๐ž๐ง โ€”โ€ข> ๐…๐“๐‹+ ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ,๐Ÿ‘๐œ.
โ€ข ๐’๐š๐ฌ๐ฎ๐ค๐ž โ€”โ€ข> ๐…๐“๐‹+ ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ,๐Ÿ‘๐œ.
 
Sorry if some links are incomplete (some of the text is separated). Maybe you can change it to check the contents of the link ๐Ÿ™๐Ÿป
 
Not this again...

Chakra and Speed doesn't correlate numerically. Just because your chakra dropped by 30%, doesn't mean that your speed also drops by 30%. It's simple logic honestly
 
Chakra mechanics aside, you won't get support for Koji = Delta. You would have to present new arguments that weren't debunked in the 5A downgrade thread. Overtime even I have developed concerns about scaling a character using just one statement. The best we can argue is that SM Koji is as fast as Delta.
 
Not this again...

Chakra and Speed doesn't correlate numerically. Just because your chakra dropped by 30%, doesn't mean that your speed also drops by 30%. It's simple logic honestly
you can't say that without giving a concrete rebuttal, because I have brought up the case that when Shikamaru's chakra decreased ( ) then his speed also decreased, Maybe you didn't pay enough attention to the fundamental parts of the feats this time that I previously explained.
 
Chakra mechanics aside, you won't get support for Koji = Delta. You would have to present new arguments that weren't debunked in the 5A downgrade thread. Overtime even I have developed concerns about scaling a character using just one statement. The best we can argue is that SM Koji is as fast as Delta.
funny, keep looking
 
you can't say that without giving a concrete rebuttal, because I have brought up the case that when Shikamaru's chakra decreased ( ) then his speed also decreased, Maybe you didn't pay enough attention to the fundamental parts of the feats this time that I previously explained.

It's like you're not even hearing the problems.


I was the one that created the last thread for this upgrade. What you need to simply prove here first is that less than 10% jigen scales to ftl in the first place. If you can then you can make progress
 
you can't say that without giving a concrete rebuttal, because I have brought up the case that when Shikamaru's chakra decreased ( ) then his speed also decreased, Maybe you didn't pay enough attention to the fundamental parts of the feats this time that I previously explained.

Did you take time to actually understand my point? nowhere did i say that your speed won't decrease if your chakra gets drained. Please reread my statement carefully next time
 
It's like you're not even hearing the problems.


I was the one that created the last thread for this upgrade. What you need to simply prove here first is that less than 10% jigen scales to ftl in the first place. If you can then you can make progress
I'm just replying to other people's arguments, the benefit of ensuring Jigen ftl is within 10%, I have explained that and there is even an additional explanation regarding this, you can see in the Koji = Delta section
 
Did you take time to actually understand my point? nowhere did i say that your speed won't decrease if your chakra gets drained. Please reread my statement carefully next time
??? That fits your analogy, in Shikamaru's state whose speed decreases as his chakra is used
 
I'm just replying to other people's arguments, the benefit of ensuring Jigen ftl is within 10%, I have explained that and there is even an additional explanation regarding this, you can see in the Koji = Delta section
Your koji =delta does not address shit. You simply said koji=delta. Yes we know koji was going to fight her but how? He has sage mode which drastically increases his speed by a lot. So to say that base koji is as fast as delta needs evidence which you did not present.
 
Your koji =delta does not address shit. You simply said koji=delta. Yes we know koji was going to fight her but how? He has sage mode which drastically increases his speed by a lot. So to say that base koji is as fast as delta needs evidence which you did not present.
At least we have a reference for this comparison, a statement from the creator of Cyborg (Delta) himself. and this standard is already available in VsB.
 
At least we have a reference for this comparison, a statement from the creator of Cyborg (Delta) himself. and this standard is already available in VsB.
Yes and sage mode koji could be stronger than delta. What you need to prove is for base koji.
 
??? That fits your analogy, in Shikamaru's state whose speed decreases as his chakra is used
Oh my god. Can you comprehend anything???

Chakra โ‰  Speed linearly

Yes your speed decreases if your chakra gets depleted. But not linearly, meaning if your chakra decreases up to 30%, your speed won't decrease up to 30% aswell. This is literally how stamina works, and you said yourself that chakra and stamina are basically the same.
 
chakra = stamina = stats. they are side by side, and of course they have a numerical correlation. Because stamina is endurance, endurance also has a big influence on speed. If endurance decreases by a few percent (atleast 50%), then speed will participate in the decrease numerically.
Yes they decrease numerically, ofc they do tf. But that's not my point. This method you are using cannot be applied since chakra and stats doesn't correspond linearlyyyyy. What can't you understand from that???

If your stamina decreases by 10%, your speed won't decrease by 10% aswell. That's not how it works
 
Yes they decrease numerically, ofc they do tf. But that's not my point. This method you are using cannot be applied since chakra and stats doesn't correspond linearlyyyyy. What can't you understand from that???

If your stamina decreases by 10%, your speed won't decrease by 10% aswell. That's not how it works
Sorry, I delete the previous message because I missed a bit. but here I have empirical evidence that Chakra and stamina are also numerically correlated.
 
There is nothing to look for in your OP. The evidence is really weak. There is no statement that proves in your OP that Koji wouldn't rely on Sage Mode to defeat Delta.
This possibility can be ruled out, because narratively Amado says that the two subjects are equal when the other subject (Koji) is in Base mode.
 
you can't say that without giving a concrete rebuttal, because I have brought up the case that when Shikamaru's chakra decreased ( ) then his speed also decreased, Maybe you didn't pay enough attention to the fundamental parts of the feats this time that I previously explained.

Chakra is like energy, from what I see here. What's the difference from someone using his stamina to run, and then run out of stamina and his speed gradually decrease? It's the same thing, what are you talking about?
 
Chakra is like energy, from what I see here. What's the difference from someone using his stamina to run, and then run out of stamina and his speed gradually decrease? It's the same thing, what are you talking about?
What I ask is, is this argument a form of support? or is it a rebuttal? because you gave the opinion that Chakra = Stamina. yes it supports the initial premise.
 
What I ask is, is this argument a form of support? or is it a rebuttal? because you gave the opinion that Chakra = Stamina. yes it supports the initial premise.
Of course it's rebuttal, so what? You think higher stamina = higher speed? What a joke.
 
fix your Google TL English first then we discuss, ok?

but anyway here's my spicy Paragraph for ya

the problem here is, you're keep defending your weird and ignorant scalling without seeing the inconsistency between the characters power and speed gap.

please, just quit.
 
Initial premise, we will explain what chakras are, and are they useful for some other physical aspects? Chakra is a spiritual energy that can be controlled and applied to produce a technique which is usually called Jutsu. Apart from being able to be applied like that, chakra has a correlation with stamina. They reproduce each other consistently, and are a symbiotic mutualism, because if a Shinobi spends a lot of chakra/stamina, they will automatically weaken. However, if a Shinobi has 100% stamina, they will be able to give some of it chakra to create a Jutsu ( https://gyazo.com/53ed98762821ea81019aa54e6515d153 ). In general, stamina also plays a big role in statistics. Because if a creature doesn't have stamina, how will it move? ( https://id.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/stamina ) and this is evident in the Naruto fiction ( ).

And here I will give some feats in Naruto verse, which prove that chakra has an effect on increasing speed. It can be seen in the scan that I gave, where the speed will drop drastically if the chakra is low, of course this is enough to prove that chakra can increase speed, and the speed itself is slow if the chakra is low


You can also see in other scans that Shikamaru's speed decreases drastically when his chakra is almost depleted, Shikamaru himself even said that because of his minimal chakra, he failed to attack his opponent (because his shadow speed was reduced).



For other evidence, here it can be seen that shinobi are able to increase their physical abilities by using chakra to increase their speed by focusing chakra on their feet, this is a basic shinobi technique where naturally every shinobi who makes movements is already in this technique



And for final proof, you can see Raikage neutralizing his chakra to increase Raikage's own speed, it can be seen that he has maximized his speed with the remaining chakra, also supported by Bee who states "He is in his highest speed mode" which is where we can conclude, that Raikage has maximized all his chakra (until you see a very large chakra aura coming out) to increase his own speed ( & )

The next explanation is when Isshiki's fight against the Konoha Duo is over, there Isshiki says that he used up more power than he thought ( ) Which indicates that Isshiki really didn't use his full power at all. during the fight against the Konoha Duo, because Jigen was no longer strong enough to use Isshiki's chakra. Even when that incident occurred, Jigen, Isshiki's vessel, cried. So Jigen is one of the flawed vessels that doesn't even deserve to be Isshiki's vessel ( https://gyazo.com/ff09cb4558d6be57fbfe0ea1587c76bb & https://imgur.com/gcJZoUF ) who is only considered as an intermediary for Isshiki looking for the perfect vessel ( Kawaki ).

Continue here, as shown in the Jigen vs Duo Konoha scan. Since the fight, Jigen immediately recovered his chakra. On the other hand, Amado stated that Jigen's chakra was almost zero (https://gyazo.com/ca7e9f1dd0704966629c1a1fa66e23ed) Even though we can clearly see the content of the fight if Jigen didn't use many of his jutsu. Yes, at most it's just iron, a seal to seal Naruto (I don't know what the name is) the rest is just taijutsu. Can this provide a slight conclusion that at that time Isshiki was not releasing 100% power? The answer is yes, you need to know first that Jigen's power is 100% โ‰  Isshiki's 100% because Jigen at 100% can only use a few percent of Isshiki's chakra, not that much. And continue with the explanation.

There was a notification from Amado to Kashin Koji that Jigen's recovery had not even reached 10% ( https://gyazo.com/c44b9fa8db55b50bce32060a420929d4 ). This context is not Isshiki who fought against the Konoha Duo using only 10% of his strength. This context is Jigen who ran out of chakra after fighting NaruSaru, where when he fought NaruSaru, Jigen released all his chakra until he was left now, so in short Jigen fought NaruSaru with Full Power, so after the fight, Jigen ran out of chakra and was filling his chakra, well current position while it is being refilled, it is known that Jigen's current chakra position is 10%.

Still focusing on the previous proof. Where there is an interpretation of the context of the scenario where a battle will occur between Isshiki, who has not yet reached 10% recovery, will fight against Kashin Koji. Kashin Koji's speed gap can be compared to Delta, namely ftl speed because he is qualitatively superior to Delta. Where Koji states himself that he can relatively beat Delta, which means this indicates that Kashin Koji is superior to Delta ( https://imgur.io/a/h5fYzel ) As for Delta's own speed gap, it will be generalized to Naruto, because there is a proof that Delta was able to fight on par with Naruto ( https://i.imgur.com/m9e4xrn.jpg )

Continuing here, with Jigen's ability not even reaching 10% recovery, he is still able to pared with Kashin Koji ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zolyvmanga/boruto-naruto-next-generations/chapter-46/8 .jpg ) What's more, if Kashin Koji there uses sage mode, you know for yourself what benefits you get when someone uses sage mode. Yes, even though in the end Isshiki himself decided to immediately get up using a disabled container (Jigen)


Yes, this actually created a reverse situation, where Isshiki was able to defeat Kashin Koji easily. A premise that shows Isshiki's superiority after awakening with 100% power (real body), where Isshiki can immediately spam jutsu against Kashin Koji which was not previously shown in the fight against the Konoha Duo. And here is a list of Isshiki's abilities that are released when using Real Body:

โ€ข Dojutsu.
Isshiki's left eye is Byakugan, and his right eye is Dharmagan ( https://i.imgur.com/SCsTcH7.jpg ).

โ€ข Sukunahikona.
Isshiki can reduce the size of himself and other inanimate objects so that he can use them in battle ( https://i.imgur.com/04a4Y5r.jpg ).

โ€ข Daikokuten.
Isshiki can have his own version of the dimension, where he can store various objects whose size he reduces. So this is technically similar to Kamui, but the difference is that the object he enters here must be reduced in size first with Sukunahikona.

There is an explanation that must be explained regarding Isshiki's capabilities and jutsu when he is at full power. Yup, none other than a scan of Isshiki's last battle against the Konoha Duo. ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zoly...t-generations/chapter-38-he-s-bad-news/21.jpg ) power development that is significantly superior to using containers ( Jigen), Isshiki can continuously outspeed the Konoha Duo and bombard them. Spamming his Dojutsu power by taking out a large cube, cornering the object, which was clearly not previously shown in Jigen's battle against the Konoha Duo. Yeah this was before Naruto used Baryon mode.

Let's continue, this is the final case being discussed, during Naruto Baryon mode, it is clear that Isshiki was hit by an all-out blitz by Naruto, the position here is that Naruto wins hands down ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zolyvmanga/boruto/chapter52/010. jpg ), this position can be seen with Naruto's new form, increasing his speed significantly so that he can attack Isshiki, even though previously Naruto was completely beaten by Isshiki (before using Baryon mode). From here the speed statistical conclusion that we can draw is Naruto Baryon > Isshiki Full Power > Jigen Full Power = Naruto (Exclude Baryon) & Sasuke > Jigen 10% > Koji > Delta.

I also want to respond to people who make negative assumptions regarding this topic:

โ€ข Many people say that Amado's statement is just a form of wild speculation, but it is something you should know. Amado is known as an observer and researcher, he is a former Inner from the Kara organization, he created Cyborg. Isshiki is occupying Jigen's body to become his new host, of course Amado knows that. After receiving information that Amado was the head of the research division in the Kara organization, there was no doubt about his interpretation. The cyborgs he has created are Koji, Delta, Eida and Daemon. With a vision and mission to eliminate Isshiki after finding out Isshiki's true goal of destroying the planet in order to evolve. Amado has learned many things, there is no doubt about the speculation he has implemented, with credibility seen through his status ( https://naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Amado_Sanzu ). With evidence that Amado is someone who is established in the field of research and creation of Cyborgs. In addition, the interpretation of Vsb which correlates with a statement from a researcher who studied the character is reliable (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Statements).

โ€ข There are also those who assume that if Isshiki had a speed that was 10ร— faster than Naruto (excluding Byron) and Sasuke, then Sasuke would not be able to see Isshiki's movements when fighting Naruto ( https://cdn.bakihanma.com/file/Zolyvmanga /boruto/chapter52/010.jpg ) because Sasuke's reaction speed was clearly far below that of Isshiki and Naruto in that position. But on the other hand, Sasuke said that he "almost" couldn't see the movements of the two of them ( https://i.imgur.com/eKrVuTW.jpg ), so did Sasuke also get the 10ร— Multiplier? The answer is clearly no, because the average person who assumes something like this commits a Half-Truth Fallacy because interrupting the statement given by Sasuke, Sasuke said that "I can't see their movements with my Sharingan" which means we can conclude that he can see their movements with the Sharingan, but can't see their movements without the Sharingan, this can happen because with the Sharingan alone, Sasuke says "almost" can't see their movements, where the Sharingan has special abilities such as Precognition ( https:// naruto.fandom.com/wiki/Sharingan) which proves that with the presence of the Sharingan, the reaction speed of seeing can increase, but because it doesn't use real eyes (not including the Sharingan) it doesn't get any reaction speed achievements at all, because the conclusion is if without the Sharingan you cannot see his movements, so the conclusion is that the reaction speed of the Sharingan is โ‰  the reaction speed of Sasuke physically.

โ€ข Lastly, this is the most common and most misunderstood explanation, many people assume that if chakra = speed, why is it that Kaguya, who is known to have chakra far above Naruto, can be blitzed by Naruto? The answer is simple, this is the same as my explanation above, that 100% chakra = prime condition, every Shinobi has the capability to accommodate chakra and the chakra needs in their respective bodies, and it is always different for each individual. An easy analogy is like this, there are 2 glasses that have significant differences in size, one is 1 cm and the other is 5 cm, they can hold 100% of the water according to their capacity. the 1 cm glass can only hold 1 cm of water, and the 5 cm glass can only hold 5 cm of water. both can accommodate the whole, but the differences in capacity are relatively different.

Because this idea prioritizes speed. then we will explain the Konoha duo's speed calculations here. At least 1.03c based on calculations rewritten by Denlizt ( https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:DenLitz/Naruto_dodge_Light_Fang ) it's up to you whether you want to take the manga or anime version. With the quantity of speed that Naruto has, namely FTL 1.03c. Jigen is 10% capable of On-par with Kashin Koji, while Kashin Koji = delta, and Delta = Naruto. atleast, if Jigen is 100% against Kashin Koji, he will be 10x faster than before, so; 1.03 ร— 10 = 10.3 or FTL+ 10.3c.

โ€ข Clarification of KCM Naruto speed.
The majority said that Naruto's speed when fighting Delta was lower than his speed presentation when he got the FTL 1.03c (Six path mode) achievement due to the difference in mode. Actually, we can turn around first when the Konoha duo fight Jigen in their dimension. Jigen has relatively higher speed than the Konoha Duo, because Sasuke still has the Rinnegan and Sharingan. Sasuke's speed is FTL 1.03c because he is able to Onpar with Naruto Six Path Mode when he has the Rinnegan and Sharingan in the Valley of Death [ https://*********.me/title/10016-en-naruto/1140910-vol-63-ch-695-1 | https://*********.me/title/10016-en-naruto/1140908-vol-63-ch-696-1 | https://*********.me/title/10016-en-naruto/3219738-vol-72-ch-697-1-naruto-and-sasuke-4 ]. Naruto using KCM was able to react several times to Jigen, this determines that Naruto KCM is equivalent to Jigen (FTL [1.03c]). So, Naruto's speed remains consistent at FTL 1.03c even though there is a difference in mode and the performance produced by Six Path.

๐‚๐จ๐ง๐œ๐ฅ๐ฎ๐ฌ๐ข๐จ๐ง :
โ€”๐‹๐ž๐ ๐ข๐ญ๐ข๐ฆ๐š๐ญ๐ž.
โ€ข ๐๐š๐ซ๐ฎ๐ญ๐จ โ€”โ€ข> ๐…๐“๐‹+ ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ,๐Ÿ‘๐œ.
โ€ข ๐ˆ๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ก๐ข๐ค๐ข โ€”โ€ข> ๐…๐“๐‹+ ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ,๐Ÿ‘๐œ.
โ€”๐๐จ๐ฌ๐ฌ๐ข๐›๐ข๐ฅ๐ข๐ญ๐ฒ
โ€ข ๐‰๐ข๐ ๐ž๐ง โ€”โ€ข> ๐…๐“๐‹+ ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ,๐Ÿ‘๐œ.
โ€ข ๐’๐š๐ฌ๐ฎ๐ค๐ž โ€”โ€ข> ๐…๐“๐‹+ ๐Ÿ๐ŸŽ,๐Ÿ‘๐œ.


Poor argument.
 
I'm not asking for proof between Chakra and Stamina. I'm asking you for proof between the correlation of Chakra and someone's statistics.

The picture you gave only prove that Stamina and Chakra is basically the same thing but is applied differently. Stamina is used for Taijutsu & Chakra is for Ninjutsu, etc.
chakra and stamina mutually reproduce each other. as shown in the information in the previous photo.

right in the left corner of the previous scene, it represents that if a Shinobi's chakra and stamina touch 0%, they die. and of course these are numerically correlated.
 
Of course it's rebuttal, so what? You think higher stamina = higher speed? What a joke.
bruh? evaluate what is available in my argument. because 100% Stamina or Chakra = In prime condition. it depends on the chakra capacity, and don't say that Infinite chakra = Infinite speed.
 
chakra and stamina mutually reproduce each other. as shown in the information in the previous photo.

right in the left corner of the previous scene, it represents that if a Shinobi's chakra and stamina touch 0%, they die. and of course these are numerically correlated.
Yes, but that's not what I'm asking you for is it?
 
disagree, too many forced calculations
just like saying Koji is stronger than Delta, just because of his own statement that can bring down Delta, I have read your statement that Amado is a great researcher, but in the scene that says Koji can beat Delta is Koji himself. Then even if it is true that Koji can defeat Delta it is not always a calculation of speed, because the ability to take someone down can be done in various ways, not necessarily speed.
Then regarding Jigen's speed, whether he was before fighting Naruto & Sasuke and when he fought Koji it was the same, the application of the percentage was wrong, for example, like Delta against Naruto, are you sure if Naruto really exerted all his strength? even after I saw Naruto's fight against Delta, Delta didn't really match Naruto, because throughout the fight Naruto didn't really unleash his full strength.
There are still many other mistakes, but I think this is the first thing that needs attention, especially about the inconsistent jigen chakra calculation.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top