Naruto Revision: Kashin Koji Editorial

[TFO]

So basically this thread should be clean cut. It’s not a “downgrade” persay, but I do want to change his reasoning.

On his page, Koji’s rating is: “Unknown, Likely 5-B, Higher with Sage Mode”

The reasoning is, he should be “comparable” to Delta and fought 10% Jigen. This is his Base it’s referring to btw.

I disagree with one part of this (The Delta Part) for a few reasons…

1. While Koji “was” Confident he could take down Delta, he was featless prior to this moment, besides taking on Konohamaru. There is no other feat, implication or context that would scale Koji to Delta or suggest he could take her down in base.
2. Delta prior to this moment already has feats against a “serious” Naruto (No Killing Intent), whom she could fight and hurt.
3. While Base Koji could evenly fight 10% Jigen, it’s important to remember that Jigen is only in that state BECAUSE he used 90% of his power, fighting Naruto & Sasuke.
4. Despite all of that, the biggest nail in this coffin is that even Amado himself states Koji IN TOTALITY is not as strong as Naruto and Sasuke, when compared.

So when we take all of this information in, it shakes out to be Naruto > SM Koji > Base Koji ~ 10% Jigen (I do want to note 2 things as well that muddles this even more: We refer to him as 10% Jigen, but he wasn’t at 10%. Not only this, but it wasn’t “just” Jigen / Isshiki’s Power, but before even going to Konoha, he was shown absorbing Tentails Chakra in preparation).

Going back to my initial gripes, Base Koji cannot scale to Delta. There is nothing that supports him being able to fight Delta in Base, and that instance if confidence could be due to him having SM, which he could use against her, and her feats against Naruto and his feats against Jigen support the notion that Koji would only be able to take down Delta with SM.

The only way Base Koji being Comparable to Delta makes sense is if we make the assumption Naruto was holding back far more than the SM amp would give Koji, due to him not having Killing Intent, but that assumption goes against what’s stated and shown in the fight with Delta. There is not enough evidence to support Base Koji being comparable to Delta.

Therefore I recommend taking that Delta reasoning off his profile for his Base Form. His Base should solely scale to whatever that Weakend Jigen scales to and the Delta Confidence should be ignored or added for reasoning under his his SM rating.

 

[Nierre]

Massively agree with the OP

I was going to mention this in the other thread that Karo had made, but I just haven't had the time.

 

[karo_senpaii]

So basically this thread should be clean cut. It’s not a “downgrade” persay, but I do want to change his reasoning.

On his page, Koji’s rating is: “Unknown, Likely 5-B, Higher with Sage Mode”

The reasoning is, he should be “comparable” to Delta and fought 10% Jigen. This is his Base it’s referring to btw.

I disagree with one part of this (The Delta Part) for a few reasons…

1. While Koji “was” Confident he could take down Delta, he was featless prior to this moment, besides taking on Konohamaru. There is no other feat, implication or context that would scale Koji to Delta or suggest he could take her down in base.
2. Delta prior to this moment already has feats against a “serious” Naruto (No Killing Intent), whom she could fight and hurt.
3. While Base Koji could evenly fight 10% Jigen, it’s important to remember that Jigen is only in that state BECAUSE he used 90% of his power, fighting Naruto & Sasuke.
4. Despite all of that, the biggest nail in this coffin is that even Amado himself states Koji IN TOTALITY is not as strong as Naruto and Sasuke, when compared.

So when we take all of this information in, it shakes out to be Naruto > SM Koji > Base Koji ~ 10% Jigen (I do want to note 2 things as well that muddles this even more: We refer to him as 10% Jigen, but he wasn’t at 10%. Not only this, but it wasn’t “just” Jigen / Isshiki’s Power, but before even going to Konoha, he was shown absorbing Tentails Chakra in preparation).

Going back to my initial gripes, Base Koji cannot scale to Delta. There is nothing that supports him being able to fight Delta in Base, and that instance if confidence could be due to him having SM, which he could use against her, and her feats against Naruto and his feats against Jigen support the notion that Koji would only be able to take down Delta with SM.

The only way Base Koji being Comparable to Delta makes sense is if we make the assumption Naruto was holding back far more than the SM amp would give Koji, due to him not having Killing Intent, but that assumption goes against what’s stated and shown in the fight with Delta. There is not enough evidence to support Base Koji being comparable to Delta.

Therefore I recommend taking that Delta reasoning off his profile for his Base Form. His Base should solely scale to whatever that Weakend Jigen scales to and the Delta Confidence should be ignored or added for reasoning under his his SM rating.

This is so much wrong. Koji being 5b and weaker than naruto is not a contradiction in anyway. 5b is for base naruto. Naruto had a far higher with several of his forms. So this is not the hindrance you think. Since you ignored what I already explained you before I will do so again.

1.you say koji might have only been able to take on delta in sage mode. may i remind you that sage mode is just a stat boost. it is not going to take koji from a different tier all the way to tier 5.
2. If you look at the statement when amado said koji lacks the fire power to end ishikki while the duo might it does not contradict anything as he as referring to both of them and not individually. Lets even take the statement as referring to them individually. A base naruto already scales to this value. That would make koji like what? sage mode naruto level? yeah that's still vastly weaker than a full powered naruto and sasuke.
3. now finally let's look at it from a logical standpoint. Amado made cyborgs even stronger than jigen so we are not doubting his ability. He also ugraded delta beyond code in a matter of days . It is logically impossible for same smart amado to then make his trump card, the cyborg he wanted responsible for bringing jigen down to be weaker than delta. A delta by the way who is much inferior to jigen. I know yes you'd be saying, well all this could be in sage mode. The answer is no, it has to be base koji. We can infer from the info we have that koji most likely trained to get sage mode. Amado cannot give him that so at the point of creation it was just base koji, he at some point trained and aquired sage mode. It would be illogical for amado to hav created koji from the start weaker. more logical to say they were at least relative or koji superior.

 

[karo_senpaii]

So basically this thread should be clean cut. It’s not a “downgrade” persay, but I do want to change his reasoning.

On his page, Koji’s rating is: “Unknown, Likely 5-B, Higher with Sage Mode”

The reasoning is, he should be “comparable” to Delta and fought 10% Jigen. This is his Base it’s referring to btw.

I disagree with one part of this (The Delta Part) for a few reasons…

1. While Koji “was” Confident he could take down Delta, he was featless prior to this moment, besides taking on Konohamaru. There is no other feat, implication or context that would scale Koji to Delta or suggest he could take her down in base.
2. Delta prior to this moment already has feats against a “serious” Naruto (No Killing Intent), whom she could fight and hurt.
3. While Base Koji could evenly fight 10% Jigen, it’s important to remember that Jigen is only in that state BECAUSE he used 90% of his power, fighting Naruto & Sasuke.
4. Despite all of that, the biggest nail in this coffin is that even Amado himself states Koji IN TOTALITY is not as strong as Naruto and Sasuke, when compared.

So when we take all of this information in, it shakes out to be Naruto > SM Koji > Base Koji ~ 10% Jigen (I do want to note 2 things as well that muddles this even more: We refer to him as 10% Jigen, but he wasn’t at 10%. Not only this, but it wasn’t “just” Jigen / Isshiki’s Power, but before even going to Konoha, he was shown absorbing Tentails Chakra in preparation).

Going back to my initial gripes, Base Koji cannot scale to Delta. There is nothing that supports him being able to fight Delta in Base, and that instance if confidence could be due to him having SM, which he could use against her, and her feats against Naruto and his feats against Jigen support the notion that Koji would only be able to take down Delta with SM.

The only way Base Koji being Comparable to Delta makes sense is if we make the assumption Naruto was holding back far more than the SM amp would give Koji, due to him not having Killing Intent, but that assumption goes against what’s stated and shown in the fight with Delta. There is not enough evidence to support Base Koji being comparable to Delta.

Therefore I recommend taking that Delta reasoning off his profile for his Base Form. His Base should solely scale to whatever that Weakend Jigen scales to and the Delta Confidence should be ignored or added for reasoning under his his SM rating.

I'd also like to point that while koji was about to face the delta the creator of them both was right there when koji said he was going to take her out.

Pay close attention to his words "there is no need to for that".. this implies Amado was fully aware that koji would be able to take care of her but he did not want them to waste any time at all hence he went for the easier route.

 

[Tdjwo]

Do people forget base Naruto is already 5B? If Koji has that same rating in his base, how is that a contradiction for him being superior to Delta who struggled against a "holding back" SPSM Naruto? How does this even correlate? Massive disagree with the OP.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Do people forget base Naruto is already 5B? If Koji has that same rating in his base, how is that a contradiction for him being superior to Delta who struggled against a "holding back" SPSM Naruto? How does this even correlate? Massive disagree with the OP.

Literally my exact thoughts.

 

[TFO]

This is so much wrong. Koji being 5b and weaker than naruto is not a contradiction in anyway. 5b is for base naruto. Naruto had a far higher with several of his forms. So this is not the hindrance you think. Since you ignored what I already explained you before I will do so again.

1.you say koji might have only been able to take on delta in sage mode. may i remind you that sage mode is just a stat boost. it is not going to take koji from a different tier all the way to tier 5.
2. If you look at the statement when amado said koji lacks the fire power to end ishikki while the duo might it does not contradict anything as he as referring to both of them and not individually. Lets even take the statement as referring to them individually. A base naruto already scales to this value. That would make koji like what? sage mode naruto level? yeah that's still vastly weaker than a full powered naruto and sasuke.
3. now finally let's look at it from a logical standpoint. Amado made cyborgs even stronger than jigen so we are not doubting his ability. He also ugraded delta beyond code in a matter of days . It is logically impossible for same smart amado to then make his trump card, the cyborg he wanted responsible for bringing jigen down to be weaker than delta. A delta by the way who is much inferior to jigen. I know yes you'd be saying, well all this could be in sage mode. The answer is no, it has to be base koji. We can infer from the info we have that koji most likely trained to get sage mode. Amado cannot give him that so at the point of creation it was just base koji, he at some point trained and aquired sage mode. It would be illogical for amado to hav created koji from the start weaker. more logical to say they were at least relative or koji superior.

You can make this argument if you want. My thread is based on actual showings and context. Regarding amado’s statement, you’ll of course disagree, and that’s fine, it’ll be up to others to decide which interpretation they agree with more, but i’ll say you’re playing semantics. Amado’s statement doesn’t exclusively mean what you’re saying. He doesn’t limit his statement to meaning only the two of them together and I would argue no english teacher would state that as well.

“Kashin Koji lacks the power to take down Isshiki. You two are the only ones who might have a chance.”

This statement doesn’t read like or imply, “Only together do you two have a chance”. So I disagree with you completely. At best you could argue it can be taken as either or.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Do people forget base Naruto is already 5B? If Koji has that same rating in his base, how is that a contradiction for him being superior to Delta who struggled against a "holding back" SPSM Naruto? How does this even correlate? Massive disagree with the OP.

Kawaki even stated naruto is controlling the battle and leading her away like a dance . So naruto was definitely much stronger. He also said he had to put in more effort not to kill her.

 

[karo_senpaii]

You can make this argument if you want. My thread is based on actual showings and context. Regarding amado’s statement, you’ll of course disagree, and that’s fine, it’ll be up to others to decide which interpretation they agree with more, but i’ll say you’re playing semantics. Amado’s statement doesn’t exclusively mean what you’re saying. He doesn’t limit his statement to meaning only the two of them together and I would argue no english teacher would state that as well.

“Kashin Koji lacks the power to take down Isshiki. You two are the only ones who might have a chance.”

This statement doesn’t read like or imply, “Only together do you two have a chance”. So I disagree with you completely. At best you could argue it can be taken as either or.

Literally right in my argument I say "let's take this statement as individually" meaning I was fully ready to compromise with you. I still explained how 5b koji will still be significantly weaker than full powered naruto. Yet you just nitpicked what helped you and answered it.

 

[Nierre]

You can make this argument if you want. My thread is based on actual showings and context. Regarding amado’s statement, you’ll of course disagree, and that’s fine, it’ll be up to others to decide which interpretation they agree with more, but i’ll say you’re playing semantics. Amado’s statement doesn’t exclusively mean what you’re saying. He doesn’t limit his statement to meaning only the two of them together and I would argue no english teacher would state that as well.

“Kashin Koji lacks the power to take down Isshiki. You two are the only ones who might have a chance.”

This statement doesn’t read like or imply, “Only together do you two have a chance”. So I disagree with you completely. At best you could argue it can be taken as either or.

I can't see how in good faith you could argue that Amado implies Naruto or Sasuke can take Isshiki on either or. They literally got clapped by Jigen together, and also we literally saw them got clapped by Isshiki together.

Amado obviously is referring to them in tandem. And either way they STILL had no chance, without Baryon Mode, (Kawaki) and Boruto. They couldn't have beaten him, their best bet was to stall Isshiki until his timer ran out.



Actually count me as neutral for now, I'm gonna wait for more arguments

 

[TFO]

Do people forget base Naruto is already 5B? If Koji has that same rating in his base, how is that a contradiction for him being superior to Delta who struggled against a "holding back" SPSM Naruto? How does this even correlate? Massive disagree with the OP.

Point out exactly “where” I argue the 5-B rating? I’ll wait, because I could’ve sworn my opening sentence states its not a Downgrade persay and just targets reasonings.

Delta and Koji can both be 5-B and Koji still not be comparable to Delta. The fact still remains Base Koji doesn’t scale to Delta or Naruto.

 

[Tdjwo]

Point out exactly “where” I argue the 5-B rating? I’ll wait, because I could’ve sworn my opening sentence states its not a Downgrade persay and just targets reasonings.

Delta and Koji can both be 5-B and Koji still not be comparable to Delta. The fact still remains Base Koji doesn’t scale to Delta or Naruto.

Show me any of Delta's feats that stacks up to base Kashin Koji "killing" 10% Jigen. I would wait.

 

[Nierre]

What value is 10% Jigen/"Koji" anyway?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Point out exactly “where” I argue the 5-B rating? I’ll wait, because I could’ve sworn my opening sentence states its not a Downgrade persay and just targets reasonings.

Delta and Koji can both be 5-B and Koji still not be comparable to Delta. The fact still remains Base Koji doesn’t scale to Delta or Naruto.

He Is telling you the point about koji being weaker than naruto as to why koji does not scale should not be among your arguments at all as it is not a hindrance. Once again I already explained this. Amado created koji , to say that at the point of creation he created something weaker than delta to take on jigen who is vastly stronger than delta is just ridiculous. And before you mention sage mode , no sage mode should definitely not be here coz Amado didn't create it. Koji learnt it along the line. So at point of creation it was not present.


The fact is when koji was about to take on delta he was not in sage mode. Yes you can argue he may or may not have needed sage mode but I pointed to you already that his base would still need to be somewhat relative in the first place.

Also why do you think the rating is "likely" in the first place and not a full rating?

 

[karo_senpaii]

What value is 10% Jigen/"Koji" anyway?

Likely 5b. Not a full rating but just Likely.

 

[TFO]

I can't see how in good faith you could argue that Amado implies Naruto or Sasuke can take Isshiki on either or. They literally got clapped by Jigen together, and also we literally saw them got clapped by Isshiki together.

Amado obviously is referring to them in tandem. And either way they STILL had no chance, without Baryon Mode, (Kawaki) and Boruto. They couldn't have beaten him, their best bet was to stall Isshiki until his timer ran out.



Actually count me as neutral for now, I'm gonna wait for more arguments

Their chances together are “technically” better, yes (That was never in dispute), but that isn’t the exclusive context. Again, you have to take all the information presented.

We are presented with Base Koji being equivalent to sub 10% Jigen and we are also presented to Naruto and Sasuke requiring Jigen using more than 90% of his power clap them. Even with SM, Koji doesn’t compare to 100% Naruto or Sasuke let alone that Jigen or Isshiki.

Right or wrong?

Based on THAT context, when Amado says they are the only ones who stand a chance, that isn’t exclusively meaning together. Naruto and Sasuke are SHOWN taking strikes, reacting and blocking strikes ON PANEL. Sure, they are doingbit High Diff, but they were doing it.

And like you said, it didn’t matter either way because we saw both get clapped. The point i’m making is, the statement isn’t exclusively saying only both together, because that’s not true. It supports them also individually scaling over Koji in totality and again, Koji’s own feats support that stance.

 

[TFO]

Show me any of Delta's feats that stacks up to base Kashin Koji "killing" 10% Jigen. I would wait.

It’s in the OP. Damaging Naruto is superior to killing a sub 10% Jigen when it took an amped fresh Jigen to fight him. How about you show otherwise?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Their chances together are “technically” better, yes (That was never in dispute), but that isn’t the exclusive context. Again, you have to take all the information presented.

We are presented with Base Koji being equivalent to sub 10% Jigen and we are also presented to Naruto and Sasuke requiring Jigen using more than 90% of his power clap them. Even with SM, Koji doesn’t compare to 100% Naruto or Sasuke let alone that Jigen or Isshiki.

Right or wrong?

Based on THAT context, when Amado says they are the only ones who stand a chance, that isn’t exclusively meaning together. Naruto and Sasuke are SHOWN taking strikes, reacting and blocking strikes ON PANEL. Sure, they are doingbit High Diff, but they were doing it.

And like you said, it didn’t matter either way because we saw both get clapped. The point i’m making is, the statement isn’t exclusively saying only both together, because that’s not true. It supports them also individually scaling over Koji in totality and again, Koji’s own feats support that stance.

The problem now is how is any of this disproving 5b koji?

Koji is rated 5b. Same rating as a base naruto, naruto has sage mode, six path sage mode. More powerful forms to put him over that koji.

With this rating a sage mode koji would just be relative to a sage mode naruto. Does this not go in line with koji being weaker as naruto still has higher forms like six path, kurama avatar mode?

 

[karo_senpaii]

It’s in the OP. Damaging Naruto is superior to killing a sub 10% Jigen when it took an amped fresh Jigen to fight him. How about you show otherwise?

Damaging a naruto that lowered his durability to get information?

 

[Tdjwo]

It’s in the OP. Damaging Naruto is superior to killing a sub 10% Jigen when it took an amped fresh Jigen to fight him. How about you show otherwise?

You mean "damaging" a suppressed/holding back Naruto? Do you remember how base Naruto casually slammed Delta just as the fight started?
Naruto was dancing around Delta's head, as stated by Kawaki.

 

[TFO]

He Is telling you the point about koji being weaker than naruto as to why koji does not scale should not be among your arguments at all as it is not a hindrance. Once again I already explained this. Amado created koji , to say that at the point of creation he created something weaker than delta to take on jigen who is vastly stronger than delta is just ridiculous. And before you mention sage mode , no sage mode should definitely not be here coz Amado didn't create it. Koji learnt it along the line. So at point of creation it was not present.


The fact is when koji was about to take on delta he was not in sage mode. Yes you can argue he may or may not have needed sage mode but I pointed to you already that his base would still need to be somewhat relative in the first place.

Also why do you think the rating is "likely" in the first place and not a full rating?

He Is telling you the point about koji being weaker than naruto as to why koji does not scale should not be among your arguments at all as it is not a hindrance. Once again I already explained this. Amado created koji , to say that at the point of creation he created something weaker than delta to take on jigen who is vastly stronger than delta is just ridiculous. And before you mention sage mode , no sage mode should definitely not be here coz Amado didn't create it. Koji learnt it along the line. So at point of creation it was not present.


The fact is when koji was about to take on delta he was not in sage mode. Yes you can argue he may or may not have needed sage mode but I pointed to you already that his base would still need to be somewhat relative in the first place.

Also why do you think the rating is "likely" in the first place and not a full rating?

My argument is Koji does not scale to Delta who scales from Naruto, when Koji only reaches that level via SM. You don’t even have a good grasp of his argument with what you’re saying.

You keep bringing up Amado creating Koji, as if it matters that much. Koji has actual feats to scale from. His base is weaker than Delta. Based on feats. Idk what’s hard about this that you’re missing.

Again, the thread is targetting Koji’s reasoning when it comes to Delta. He has no feats, implications or context scaling his base to Delta. Idc if scales tot he 5-B tier via other reasonings. It’s not via Delta.

 

[TFO]

Damaging a naruto that lowered his durability to get information?

Ok, so we just going to ignore the rest of the fight now? Gotcha.

This is an example of arguing in bad faith btw, but, i’m not surprised.

 

[Nierre]

Anyway, goon time:

SM Koji ~ Isshiki

 

[TFO]

You mean "damaging" a suppressed/holding back Naruto? Do you remember how base Naruto casually slammed Delta just as the fight started?
Naruto was dancing around Delta's head, as stated by Kawaki.

Yes, I mean damaging the angered and serious, “I’ll make you regret your actions!” Naruto. Oh, do you mean the Delta that wasn’t taking him serious, that Base Naruto slammed? Yes. That one.

Naruto “Dancing Delta around” is an example of his skill. Has nothing to do with his his stats in that scene, but thank you for being facetious.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I agree that Base Koji doesn't scale to Delta, and I'm gonna note to the people disagreeing that Delta currently is rated as scaling to FP SPSM Naruto, not holding back, so your opinion about that isn't relevant to this.

 

[Nierre]

@TFO I wanna make sure I'm correct:

Base Naruto: 156.2 Zettatons
Base Jigen: > 156.2 Zettatons
SPSM Naruto: 312.8 Zettatons
Karma Jigen: 312.8 Zettatons
Sasuke: 312.8 Zettatons
Delta: = SPSM Naruto (312.8 Zettatons)

SPSM Kurama Mode Naruto: >> 312.8 Zettatons
Susanoo Sasuke: >> 312.8 Zettatons
POM Jigen: >>> 312.8 Zettatons

Koji: (At most) 1/10th Jigen (15.62 Zettatons aka Small Planet level)
SM Koji: higher than before

Isshiki: >>>>> 312.8 Zettatons

 

[Testarossa002]

I disagree with the OP.
Karo already stated my reasons but I'll list it out again.

Amado created KK with the purpose of killing Jigen under the right corrections.

There's really no logical reason for him to make a cyborg that's sub-delta level.

Sage mode doesn't seem to be something Amado factored in because the moment Ishiki resurrected, Amado practically gave up on KK.
Would not make any sense for him to do that if he knew KK still had a trump card to use.

There's also the whole "crack" issue which Stryker brought up a while back (Cracked Jigen signifies sub-10% capacity~Base Naruto=5-B) but that is more like a supporting justification which I'd rather not get into

 

[Nierre]

Cracked Jigen signifies sub-10% capacity~Base Naruto

why would that be the case?

 

[Testarossa002]

Koji: (At most) 1/10th Jigen (15.62 Zettatons

Iirc, the statement is that he was less than 10%
Using 10% to upscale is like a lowball
Using 10% to downscale on the other hand is suspicious as the dude could have been 5% or so

 

[Testarossa002]

why would that be the case?

I'd rather not get into that here.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Ok, so we just going to ignore the rest of the fight now? Gotcha.

This is an example of arguing in bad faith btw, but, i’m not surprised.

Nope . Unlike you I'm not gonna ignore multiple statements saying naruto held back and even naruto himself saying he held back after he said he went all out thereby contradicting his earlier statement. Delta is definitely above base naruto, pretty evident once naruto went six path. Makes no sense to be holding back to lower than his base. But to say she scales to full powered naruto? Naa. Also this topic is a deviation. It's not relevant as no one claimed base koji>Delta. I only said base koji~delta. Also do have any idea why the rating is "likely" ?

 

[TFO]

Nope . Unlike you I'm not gonna ignore multiple statements saying naruto held back and even naruto himself saying he held back after he said he went all out thereby contradicting his earlier statement. Delta is definitely above base naruto, pretty evident once naruto went six path. Makes no sense to be holding back to lower than his base. But to say she scales to full powered naruto? Naa. Also this topic is a deviation. It's not relevant as no one claimed base koji>Delta. I only said base koji~delta. Also do have any idea why the rating is "likely" ?

Lmao! But you already have, fam. And not only statements but actual showings as well. I’m done arguing with you on this. The chips will fall where they may, but understand that i find you and you stance “in this regard” to be extremely disingenuous.

Feel free to disagree.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Lmao! But you already have, fam. And not only statements but actual showings as well. I’m done arguing with you on this. The chips will fall where they may, but understand that i find you and you stance “in this regard” to be extremely disingenuous.

Feel free to disagree.

No issues. We simply wait for admins

 

[Nierre]

actually count me as agree.

Feats > Statements

at most you could probably argue he's possibly higher due to confidently believing he could put Delta down (and Amado not contesting the confidence, but his feats show a different story. Also it's important to note that Amado had betrayed Koji and left him to fight Jigen/Isshiki knowing he wouldn't win, so it's likely he didn't contest the story because he was tricking him to begin with OR there was no need to since he had a way to shut off Delta anyway)

Koji would be something like: Low 5-B, higher with SM

 

[karo_senpaii]

actually count me as agree.

Feats > Statements

at most you could probably argue he's possibly higher due to confidently believing he could put Delta down (and Amado not contesting the confidence, but his feats show a different story. Also it's important to note that Amado had betrayed Koji and left him to fight Jigen/Isshiki knowing he wouldn't win, so it's likely he didn't contest the story because he was tricking him to begin with OR there was no need to since he had a way to shut off Delta anyway)

Koji would be something like: Low 5-B, higher with SM

This scalling will make it impossible for koji to be stronger than delta.
Your first statement is why we have a "likely" and not a full rating.

Feats>statements but there are no feats to disprove the statement . Koji witnessed the full fight between naruto and delta. So he knows her full capabilities and was still fully confident on taking her on. Amado also did not disprove this.


You know code>jigen is based on statement? Credible statements are always taking into consideration.

Oh and by the way Amado gave up immediately ishikki emerged. Obviously he knew koji stood no chance against ishikki.

Like I said before. No one ever argued koji>delta. Simply makes complete sense for him not to be inferior to her. Why make a cyborg for taking out jigen to be less than your normal cyborgs

 

[Nierre]

I'll respond when I'm home

 

[Tdjwo]

Simply makes complete sense for him not to be inferior to her. Why make a cyborg for taking out jigen to be less than your normal cyborgs

This

 

[Tdjwo]

I agree that Base Koji doesn't scale to Delta, and I'm gonna note to the people disagreeing that Delta currently is rated as scaling to FP SPSM Naruto, not holding back, so your opinion about that isn't relevant to this.

No one bothered to really check on Delta's AP scaling. It makes absolutely no sense for her to scale to full powered SPSM Naruto considering the manga showed us something different. At most she should be scaled to half of Naruto's AP.

 

[Tdjwo]

Yes, I mean damaging the angered and serious, “I’ll make you regret your actions!” Naruto. Oh, do you mean the Delta that wasn’t taking him serious, that Base Naruto slammed? Yes. That one.

Doesn't change the point that Naruto intentionally still didn't fight her at his usual power level. I could be angry at a kid and still hold back from breaking the kid's bones.

Naruto “Dancing Delta around” is an example of his skill. Has nothing to do with his his stats in that scene, but thank you for being facetious.

I'm also refering to his stats here. Naruto has been pretending to be hurt since the fight started. And I'm pretty sure Delta didn't get any stronger till the point you could assume her stats kept increasing as the fight progresses. You could simply say Naruto played with his own durability.

 

[karo_senpaii]

No one bothered to really check on Delta's AP scaling. It makes absolutely no sense for her to scale to full powered SPSM Naruto considering the manga showed us something different. At most she should be scaled to half of Naruto's AP.

Actually she can be scaled to base naruto since it makes no sense for naruto to go six path just to be weaker than his base. So she'd still scale to 312 zt