5A upgrade for some boruto characters

[karo_senpaii]

characters such as Ishikki, full power Jigen, no limiter Code, Daemon and Eida should all be upgraded to 5a via a 10x multiplier from Kashin koji vs Jigen fight.
Kashin koji is rated currently on the wiki as 5b for being comparable to delta. he was also confident on taking her on here
Amado then states that Jigen is at less than 10% power as koji is about to fight him. Jigen is then able to keep up and fight Kasin koji so meaning a fully powered Jigen should scale 10x above the current 5b value. This should apply for the rest of the people I listed above.
Alright it was brought to my attention that this particular multiplier was removed before in this thread and while I don't think it relates to my thread, I will still proceed to tackle the points so as to prevent people from constantly referring to it. The op went over 3 points and i will address them one by each.

POINT 1: PERCENTAGE MIS-INTERPRETATION
The op as refuting the claim that jigen as at 10% power when he fought naruto and sasuke as he only came to that state after loosing chakra from fighting the duo. i somehat agree with that but i will also like to point out that he as actually close to zero% and not 10 after fighting them. But this first point would only have been relevant if i was trying to scale jigen to naruto and sasuke whichI am not. 10% jigen here is independent of naruto and sasuke. He has his on feats for being able to fight and keep up with a base koji who is rated as 5B. A full powered jigen is so much more powerful than the duo to the point where he is much higher than MAS which is more than the sum of both their powers so this does not contradict any scaling.

POINT 2: INCONSISTENCY IN THE CHRONOLOGICAL INTERPRETATION OF THE UPGRADE:
The op goes on to explain that kaguya would be a contradiction to this as how was she able to hurt someone 10x more powerful than her. Most of the explanation was on speed but also power but there is one great flaw in this argument. It is the fact that we were given no context of what went down asides from "caught off guard". I find it ridiculous that this point was even taken into account in the downgrade. It is commonly accepted in fiction that off guard feats do not hold weight especially with no battle context. No one is going to approve an upgrade based off an off guard feat so why should one be downgraded because of one? I find this more puzzling as the naruto verse has consistently shown that chakra is used for all stats so when they are off guard their speed and durability is lowered a lot. Examples include : kakashi in the novels and black zetsu being able to hurt madara severely despite madara outscalling him in durability and speed. What we know is that kaguya and ishikki came together as partners. There was no reason for ishikki to be suspecting her and no reason for her to betray him well atleast to his knowledge. They also came to a planet with people thousands if not millions of times weaker than them. Absolutely no reason for his guard to be up all the time.

I'M GOING TO SKIP THE LAST POINT AS I HAVE ALREADY ADDRESSED IT IN THE FIRST POINT. ONCE AGAIN I AM NOT TRYING TO SAY JIGEN AS AT 10% FIGHTING THE DUO. I AM SIMPLY SAYING 10% JIGEN~KOJI~DELTA~NARUTO.
I'M ALSO NOT ARGUING FOR SPEED COZ IT IS MUCH MORE CONTENTIOUS. SO PLEASE NO NEED TO ADDRESS THAT.

EDIT: i was told koji scales to likely 5B so it would be likely 5A if it goes through

 

[KaydeeX]

Nuh uh

 

[karo_senpaii]

Nuh uh

Uhhn. Have no idea what this is for

 

[KaydeeX]

There's a downgrade thread that was previously accepted.
Said Downgrade thread was against the same reasons you just put up, countering that which was debunked should be prioritized.

You literally just said "Scratch that we starting afresh"

 

[karo_senpaii]

There's a downgrade thread that was previously accepted.
Said Downgrade thread was against the same reasons you just put up, countering that which was debunked should be prioritized.

You literally just said "Scratch that we starting afresh"

Nope. The downgrade thread was never on this points. Can you link the thread?

 

[Aether2734]

There's literally no new argument from last time downgrade thread

 

[karo_senpaii]

There's literally no new argument from last time downgrade thread

These arguments were never addressed not even once in the last downgrade. I was suprised it even got passed

 

[Aether2734]

These arguments were never addressed not even once in the last downgrade. I was suprised it even got passed

Do you have any idea which thread we're talking about even?

 

[karo_senpaii]

Do you have any idea which thread we're talking about even?

Kindly link the thread

 

[Aether2734]

Kindly link the thread

Both ap and speed got debunked in this thread

 

[karo_senpaii]

Both ap and speed got debunked in this thread

So I was right. The arguments for the speed debunk are fine in this thread but not the ap.

First off the op was arguing against jigen being at 10% when they fought naruto and sasuke which is not the bases of my argument. The op never argued against kashin koji scaling to 5b. They simply argued that jigen was not at 10% when he fought naruto and sasuke and simply won't scale to them at 10%. They also pointed out how a 10x difference sounded strange for kaguya to be able to catch him off guard as the speed difference was large. That's irrelevant to my arguments .


My argument is for kashin koji scaling to delta and 10% jigen scalling to him and not 10% jigen scaling to naruto and sasuke

 

[Aether2734]

So I was right. The arguments for the speed debunk are fine in this thread but not the ap.

First off the op was arguing against jigen being at 10% when they fought naruto and sasuke which is not the bases of my argument. The op never argued against kashin koji scaling to 5b. They simply argued that jigen was not at 10% when he fought naruto and sasuke and simply won't scale to them at 10%. They also pointed out how a 10x difference sounded strange for kaguya to be able to catch him off guard as the speed difference was large. That's irrelevant to my arguments .


My argument is for kashin koji scaling to delta and 10% jigen scalling to him and not 10% jigen scaling to naruto and sasuke

Both are removed from that thread, you can ask the guy who post the downgrade it if you didn't want to read the entire thread. I am not naruto expert, just saying there is nothing new in your currently thread, cause afaik both speed and ap are using same jigen multiplier feats, which why both are removed in the same time.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Both are removed from that thread, you can ask the guy who post the downgrade it if you didn't want to read the entire thread. I am not naruto expert, just saying there is nothing new in your currently thread, cause afaik both speed and ap are using same jigen multiplier feats, which why both are removed in the same time.

Being removed is not a factor in this thread. If I have separate arguments from what was argued in the thread then this is irrelevant which is what I am doing. You know what? I'd make a comprehensive write up explaining this so as you or anyone else would stop fixating on it being downgraded before and actually address my points

 

[HelloThere1089]

Makes sense. I don't get why people are not debunking the OP but instead are referring to a different CRT.

 

[Metalija]

Makes sense. Its explicitly stated that Jigen was at less than 10% power during the fight with Koji. So full power Ishiki should be 5-A.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

This is straightforward if true, I agree.

Stop using "this was addressed in another CRT" if you can't even quote the exact argument used to debunk this.

 

[karo_senpaii]

This is straightforward if true, I agree.

Stop using "this was addressed in another CRT" if you can't even quote the exact argument used to debunk this.

op has been updated now. i even addressed the previous points. so no one should have contentions

 

[Mamaroza]

If I am not mistaken, speed and ap are not linearly proportional to chakra, so if chakra increases 10 times, ap and speed do not increase 10 times (I may be wrong)

 

[karo_senpaii]

If I am not mistaken, speed and ap are not linearly proportional to chakra, so if chakran increases 10 times, ap and speed do not increase 10 times (I may be wrong)

it most likely refers to the context. this context more so interprets to power and not just chakra increase. kind of how naruto is accepted as twice as powerful as momoshiki at full power for being at half power against him. this particular 10x has been addressed and accepted before. there were just new debunks

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Good luck I already tried that

You were fooled Naruto speed

This is not a debunk to this thread Because that thread was "debunking" something that was never implied or used to begin with, that thread was based on a misunderstanding of another thread and the reason it scaled. Again this is not a debunk I wont be showing my arguments i will be showing you...

vsbattles.com

 

[karo_senpaii]

Good luck I already tried that

You were fooled Naruto speed

This is not a debunk to this thread Because that thread was "debunking" something that was never implied or used to begin with, that thread was based on a misunderstanding of another thread and the reason it scaled. Again this is not a debunk I wont be showing my arguments i will be showing you...

vsbattles.com

Well your problem was you were tackling speed. That's much harder to prove and gets more scrutiny. Mine is ap which should be pretty straightforward as the 10% denotes power

 

[HelloThere1089]

Iirc AP does increase proportionally to chakra. That's why we put 50% chakra Naruto at half his AP right?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Well your problem was you were tackling speed. That's much harder to prove and gets more scrutiny. Mine is ap which should be pretty straightforward as the 10% denotes power

For the most part despite mentioning the speed it was about the multiplier not exacly for only the speed

 

[karo_senpaii]

Iirc AP does increase proportionally to chakra. That's why we put 50% chakra Naruto at half his AP right?

Yup but it is case by case though not every increase

 

[karo_senpaii]

For the most part despite mentioning the speed it was about the multiplier not exacly for only the speed

True but most of your backing was for speed. Scaling weakened jigen to fighting base naruto clones. But even addressing the multiplier itself power is easily acceptable for ap much easier than for speed

 

[Mamaroza]

Iirc AP does increase proportionally to chakra

No https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:UchihaSlayer96/The_Mechanics_of_Chakra_Enhancement
"If Chakra is used to enhance AP, then how come Kid and Part 2 Naruto wasn't the strongest character at the time? He had way more chakra than everyone else! He had more chakra as Kakashi and about as much as Kisame, but was far weaker than both, so obviously chakra has no bearing on AP!"

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

True but most of your backing was for speed. Scaling weakened jigen to fighting base naruto clones. But even addressing the multiplier itself power is easily acceptable for ap much easier than for speed

And in the same threat they said they would downgrade Kashin Koji because him being confident in fighting Delta head on its not enough to be considered equal to Delta.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

No https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:UchihaSlayer96/The_Mechanics_of_Chakra_Enhancement
"If Chakra is used to enhance AP, then how come Kid and Part 2 Naruto wasn't the strongest character at the time? He had way more chakra than everyone else! He had more chakra as Kakashi and about as much as Kisame, but was far weaker than both, so obviously chakra has no bearing on AP!"

The mechanics of chakra enchantment covers that AP=chakra+ chakra control

 

[karo_senpaii]

And in the same threat they said they would downgrade Kashin Koji because him being confident in fighting Delta head on its not enough to be considered equal to Delta.

The creator of them both Amado specifically said "there is no need for that" meaning he was definitely sure koji is stronger than delta and could defeat her. He just wanted the easier route

 

[karo_senpaii]

No https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:UchihaSlayer96/The_Mechanics_of_Chakra_Enhancement
"If Chakra is used to enhance AP, then how come Kid and Part 2 Naruto wasn't the strongest character at the time? He had way more chakra than everyone else! He had more chakra as Kakashi and about as much as Kisame, but was far weaker than both, so obviously chakra has no bearing on AP!"

Increase in chakra+chakra control+chakra potency. It's not just about having more chakra. And once again it is treated case by case. This particular scenario directly ties with power

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

The creator of them both Amado specifically said "there is no need for that" meaning he was definitely sure koji is stronger than delta and could defeat her. He just wanted the easier route

I know and it made no sense for them to use it yet the staff still decided to use it.

 

[karo_senpaii]

I know and it made no sense for them to use it yet the staff still decided to use it.

Well to my knowledge koji is still 5b based on that. And also that's why it was "likely" and not a flat rating( I personally think it should be just 5b).

Tbh the whole 10% downgrade just seemed so much strange to me. I decided to wait a while to bring it up again

 

[HelloThere1089]

No https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:UchihaSlayer96/The_Mechanics_of_Chakra_Enhancement
"If Chakra is used to enhance AP, then how come Kid and Part 2 Naruto wasn't the strongest character at the time? He had way more chakra than everyone else! He had more chakra as Kakashi and about as much as Kisame, but was far weaker than both, so obviously chakra has no bearing on AP!"

I'm not talking about comparing chakra of two different people because chakra control is also a variable. I'm talking about increasing the chakra of the same person. That should increase the AP proportionally.

 

[karo_senpaii]

I know and it made no sense for them to use it yet the staff still decided to use it.

Amado literally created both delta and koji. Like he literally created koji to take down jigen I see no reason why he would be weaker than her in anyway.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Amado literally created both delta and koji. Like he literally created koji to take down jigen I see no reason why he would be weaker than her in anyway.

The arguments used for the 10x multiplier was based on Koji and on Naruto and Sasuke who fought Jigen.
I explained that because his chest cracked he would mean he was at least lower than 10% yet they dismiss that because "we don't know for sure" despite me thinking it's very clearly shown

 

[karo_senpaii]

The arguments used for the 10x multiplier was based on Koji and on Naruto and Sasuke who fought Jigen.
I explained that because his chest cracked he would mean he was at least lower than 10% yet they dismiss that because "we don't know for sure" despite me thinking it's very clearly shown

Amdo even stated that jigen is almost at zero chakra. Well let's see how this thread is treated

 

[HelloThere1089]

Not to be that guy but you should probably message some staff and keep a tally of their votes.

Edit: Also what is the hand sign that Koji is doing in the first pic.

 

[karo_senpaii]

Not to be that guy but you should probably message some staff and keep a tally of their votes.

Edit: Also what is the hand sign that Koji is doing in the first pic.

Well do normal people votes even count?

Also I'm not really sure what justu he wanted to do

 

[HelloThere1089]

Well do normal people votes even count?

No.

Also I'm not really sure what justu he wanted to do

Ok. I was just curious.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Shadow needs to return bruh. This fandom is so starved for an upgrade.