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Who Dreamed First? The Presence or Mankind?
- Thread starter Nether_nine
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Well, I think that DeMatties has stated on Twitter that all such voids are just an aspect of The Presence. In addition, he stated something similar with Pralaya in "Justice League Dark", and also stated that even 1-A archangels are mere thoughts of The Presence during his run on The Spectre, if I remember correctly.
If somebody is willing to read his run on The Phantom Stranger, we might find something useful there as well.
If somebody is willing to read his run on The Phantom Stranger, we might find something useful there as well.
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Pralaya's "Void" isn't the overvoid from what I remember, I actually think it was more so further enforcing the Void being the Source but I'm pretty sure that's irrelevant at this point in time.Antvasima said:
Azazel is a embodied thought of God like how all angels are, yeah
I read PS, all I remember is him doing stuff like 1 shotting the blight, trigon and other feats like that, nothing note worthy from what I remember (other than PS defying the will of the presence and the presence flat out stating there are things he has no answer but I guess that was just a aspect)
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People need to be more chill here.
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Are you willing to let me delete that profile, and update Monitor-Mind The Overvoid and the DC Comics verse page?
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Twitter statements from writers seems odd. Paul Jenkins for example he agreed that he wrote dc on higher dimensions and referred to immeasurable not referring to infinite and in other statement he again referred to Dc multiverse as hilbert space. Same goes to Dematteis who referred to dormammu creating only a single universe using eternity power
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The thing that "drew" DC's Multiverse on the Overvoid and its Platonic Outerversal Realms is an anonymous entity. Of which we still do not know and we will get our answers most likely from Snyder. Most likely. I'm surprised everyone just jumped and assumed it was this "writer".
That is assuming if this Wiki even cares about what Snyder has to say about DC's Cosmology all the way through.
There are already some people out there arguing that Mxy should be 1-A since the 5th Dimension has no Time and Space in it now and exists outside the Source Wall, which is seriously inconsistent. I won't push for that though. Just saying.
DC is the verse of the most inconsistent cosmologies that exists on this very Wiki.
That is assuming if this Wiki even cares about what Snyder has to say about DC's Cosmology all the way through.
There are already some people out there arguing that Mxy should be 1-A since the 5th Dimension has no Time and Space in it now and exists outside the Source Wall, which is seriously inconsistent. I won't push for that though. Just saying.
DC is the verse of the most inconsistent cosmologies that exists on this very Wiki.
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80 years of stories will do that to ya.
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Pretty much agree with Nether as well.
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Matteis says that the Presence contains the Void beyond all Voids inside him.
VSBattlesWIki Policy: That's wrong! That's bad! That's a WOG Twitter statement and we cannot use it!
M. Carey (who holds less authority on the Presence) says that the Presence is a Creation of Dreams on his Twitter that contradicts the Presence's other portrayals.
VSBattlesWIki Policy: This Tweet totally holds more weight on the Presence's origins far more than any other portrayal!
VSBattlesWIki Policy: That's wrong! That's bad! That's a WOG Twitter statement and we cannot use it!
M. Carey (who holds less authority on the Presence) says that the Presence is a Creation of Dreams on his Twitter that contradicts the Presence's other portrayals.
VSBattlesWIki Policy: This Tweet totally holds more weight on the Presence's origins far more than any other portrayal!
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So what's being discussed here? Could someone summarize the points, arguments, and what's being changed and up/downgraded?
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@Cal
Basically, The Writer as DC Comics supreme being is almost solely based on our own farfetched headcanon interpretations, not any official statements from the company, and as such we should stick with Monitor-Mind The Overvoid as the supreme entity instead.
Also, given how prominent this wiki has become, it is very inappropriate of us to announce to the world that we know better than the company itself.
However, we have made quite a lot of arguments regarding this, so it really is preferable if you are able to read through the entire thread.
Basically, The Writer as DC Comics supreme being is almost solely based on our own farfetched headcanon interpretations, not any official statements from the company, and as such we should stick with Monitor-Mind The Overvoid as the supreme entity instead.
Also, given how prominent this wiki has become, it is very inappropriate of us to announce to the world that we know better than the company itself.
However, we have made quite a lot of arguments regarding this, so it really is preferable if you are able to read through the entire thread.
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I'm wholly neutral.
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I agree with the above
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So far, this.MrKingOfNegativity said:
I have no strong opinion on whatever is decided, right now.
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As Ultima has expressed as well, I am wholly fine with maintaining the "Writer" as the Tier 0. As has been tirelessly explained before, The Writer isn't Grant Morrison's appearance in Animal Man, which in the story itself is explicitely not the real Writer(s) and just a representation in the story itself.Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
This is no difference than SPC-001 being the writers of the SCP Website.
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If you asked Rucka or Matteis, they wouldn't even know what this "Writer" is. No where is there explicity evidence of the Writer being DC's Supreme. It's all in your head. How did a character become Supreme if it is horribly inconsistent, your view is, to the perceptions of DC's writers in general? You guys don't even agree as to how the Writer works. So now one wants to merge it with the Overvoid???? Even you don't really know.
You guys like to act like Morrison is the end all be all for DC in regards to the Supreme being. And even, it's based on your extremely sleazy interpretations of his work.
If the Writer was so Supreme, it would have been CAREFULLY consolidated by the Writers of DC. And there would be no debatability, as even one of you already admitted it is indirect "evidence". Like how TOAA is carefully consolidated for Marvel. And even Morrison didn't do such a thing.
It's no better than implying that Squirrel Girl is Marvel's Tier 0. Based on sleazy interpretations.
You should have renamed DC's name on this Wiki from "DC Comics" to "Morrison Comics" and be over it.
At least, I will not be mislead into thinking this Wiki takes DC's Cosmology with actual analytical seriousness. But just Wanking Morrison.
And I still want the High-1B justifications of applying Matteis Cosmology to Morrison Cosmology for High-1B Monitors removed.
It is very dishonest to cherry pick what you like from 1 Writer then disregard his perceptions of who is Supreme in DC's Cosmology. Just because you want to Wank Morrisonid Cosmology. This I already demand. Otherwise, you will be deemed placing double standards on writer credibilities.
You guys like to act like Morrison is the end all be all for DC in regards to the Supreme being. And even, it's based on your extremely sleazy interpretations of his work.
If the Writer was so Supreme, it would have been CAREFULLY consolidated by the Writers of DC. And there would be no debatability, as even one of you already admitted it is indirect "evidence". Like how TOAA is carefully consolidated for Marvel. And even Morrison didn't do such a thing.
It's no better than implying that Squirrel Girl is Marvel's Tier 0. Based on sleazy interpretations.
You should have renamed DC's name on this Wiki from "DC Comics" to "Morrison Comics" and be over it.
At least, I will not be mislead into thinking this Wiki takes DC's Cosmology with actual analytical seriousness. But just Wanking Morrison.
And I still want the High-1B justifications of applying Matteis Cosmology to Morrison Cosmology for High-1B Monitors removed.
It is very dishonest to cherry pick what you like from 1 Writer then disregard his perceptions of who is Supreme in DC's Cosmology. Just because you want to Wank Morrisonid Cosmology. This I already demand. Otherwise, you will be deemed placing double standards on writer credibilities.
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I'm not going to speak on whether or not you're wrong, but it'd be in your best interests to avoid berating the people present. That tactic isn't going to get you anywhere.
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Your points and demands tend to get ignored or berated if you act so abrasively. These superhero verses are ultimately inconsistently stupid and don't make sense because there's been over a 1,000 different writers for them, you shouldn't get worked up over it because it makes you look childish.
The Overvoid's thing is that it's being written on, so by a posteriori there's something doing the writing. Having a footnote about it at the very least isn't a crazy idea.
The Overvoid's thing is that it's being written on, so by a posteriori there's something doing the writing. Having a footnote about it at the very least isn't a crazy idea.
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Nether's analysis is correct, and I see not valid counters to his points throughout this thread, but as others mentioned, it is best to make an effort to maintain a polite and respectful tone, as it is more likely to get people to listen to what you have to say.
Anyway, given that nobody has offered any valid counterpoints, I still really want to remove the profile in question.
Anyway, given that nobody has offered any valid counterpoints, I still really want to remove the profile in question.
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The Empty Hand has a better chance of being Tier 0 than the Writer. It is the embodiment of everyone who reads DC Comics. According to Morrison. And at least has actually a more quantifiable feat. So the Empty Hand transcends the Overvoid. Since it reads the Overvoid like the back of his hand to a comic page. And buys comics from the Writer.
That is including the guys on this Wiki who randomly decided that Baldy Grant Morrison's Hair-doed Self-Insert was Tier 0. So the Empty Hand has access to VSBattlesWiki and can make anyone Tier 0. Since according to Morrison, it is the embodiment of things that read DC's Comics.
I'm actually surprised that the Empty Hand was never given a proper tier but the Writer was. For that.
Or is it that we are not supposed to take everything Grant Morrison says seriously with wild extrapolated interpretations seriously? Because we don't even take everything he says seriously. Like the part where he claimed that Marvel's Multiverse was literally floating alongside the 52 Universes. Maybe that's a first.
But hey, if the Writer is keeping his profile, at least give some more respect for the Empty Hand, I'd like at least a small bit of standard consistency.
That is including the guys on this Wiki who randomly decided that Baldy Grant Morrison's Hair-doed Self-Insert was Tier 0. So the Empty Hand has access to VSBattlesWiki and can make anyone Tier 0. Since according to Morrison, it is the embodiment of things that read DC's Comics.
I'm actually surprised that the Empty Hand was never given a proper tier but the Writer was. For that.
Or is it that we are not supposed to take everything Grant Morrison says seriously with wild extrapolated interpretations seriously? Because we don't even take everything he says seriously. Like the part where he claimed that Marvel's Multiverse was literally floating alongside the 52 Universes. Maybe that's a first.
But hey, if the Writer is keeping his profile, at least give some more respect for the Empty Hand, I'd like at least a small bit of standard consistency.
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