WhiteBeard possible Upgrade/Downgrade.

[Basilisk1995]

The reason WB is at small country level is because of his quakepunches being 1.2 teratons. But Narutoforum has revised the calc and its now 1.17 petatons Which is dangerously close to continent level!!! Here is the calc.

Now if this calc is accepted then it would scale to entire One piece top tier.Me and crossversecrisis had some discussion here in this thread.

But this may very well be considered an outlier or not accepted. In that case we will need a calc for WB's most bloodlusted attack which punched through Akainu and Marineford.Obviously this would be much lower than small sountry level.Which will mean downgrade for WB and one piece top tier.Which was discussed a little in this thread.

Need opinions.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

If this is by God movement than its more than likely legit from what I've seen

 

[Illuminati478]

i had a problem with this calc mainly because the original 117 gigaton calc seemed less assumtious.

regardless it does not change the rest of the verse's power, WB is the god tier he may only scal to gol d roger, and thats about it....

 

[Basilisk1995]

My problem with this calc is that It assumes WB's quake was felt from 1000s kms away.But if you know how Earthquake works then you would know that one earthquake can easily mess with another fault line in the earth and create another earthquake.So all the power that was felt at 1000s kms away came from WB is not absolute truth.

And this would scale to a lot more people than you think.Seriously a near continent level WB couldn't kill Akainu when he was beyond Angry and Bloodlusted??He couldn't solo bunch of island busters and rescue Ace??? All the admirals faught more or less toe on toe against WB .This calc would at least scale to them.The difference beteen island level and 1.17 petatons is about 10000x.Seriously a 10000 times weaker character faught against Whitebeard???That's insane.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

WB was the strongest man though + I'm pretty certain that his speed was holding him back I mean even Kizaru had no problems trolling him while Rayleigh or even his underling Marco could keep up with Kizaru and Kizaru is still not rated as WB is because he's obviously not nearly as strong.

 

[Non-Bias]

The manga suggests Whitebeard was the one causing the quakes though.

 

[Basilisk1995]

The manga suggests Whitebeard was the one causing the quakes though.

I know.But the result too damn high.Whitebeard=10000x Akainu!!!!

 

[Antvasima]

Well, given that, for example, Doflamingo could stop Jozu (who was not supposed to be far below the admirals) in his tracks, and was only powerscaled as Large Mountain level at best, Whitebeard being unable to defeat what should be much weaker characters seems like a PIS inconsistency, such as Crocodile matching Doflamingo despite being defeated by a much weaker version of Luffy and not receiving any particular training in prison. Alternately it may be an outlier.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

That's really insane, now that Basilisk fully pointed out here. If we, the site, were to actually agree with this calc, we'd have to scale to the other top tiers (or maybe even High tiers?) to around WB"s level caused like Basilisk said: It makes no sense how some Island Busters going to toe to toe with WB managed to stay alive if he was in fact High 6-B/6-A. If anything, Akainu probably would have actually died instead.

 

[Basilisk1995]

Shanks and WB's clash matched each other.So this would scale to him and possibly to Monkey D. Dragon, and Kaido.If WB is just shy of Continent level then they would be country to large country level.(If accepted).

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Ace also stopped Aokiji in his tracks.One piece is full of these one instance feats tbh here.But yeah it could be an outlier however I've got a hard time believing it would be given all the hype WB and his fruit got is all

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

Shanks and WB's clash matched each other.So this would scale to him and possibly to Monkey D. Dragon, and Kaido.If WB is just shy of Continent level then they would be country to large country level.(If accepted).

No WB didn't even use his quake quake in that clash so it really wouldn't

 

[Basilisk1995]

Ace also stopped Aokiji in his tracks.One piece is full of these one instance feats tbh here.But yeah it could be an outlier however I've got a hard time believing it would be given all the hype WB and his fruit got is all

Aokiji was casual against Ace.WB was bloodlusted against Akainu after Ace's death.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

But that would apply to akainus durability not his actual AP.WB only hit him with 2 quakes if I'm not mistaken here and WB was already wounded

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the problem is that approaching this level of power would make no sense whatsoever for the other high tiers, such as the admirals, Whitebeard's captains, Luffy, and the Shishibukai, as they have not remotely demonstrated this kind of scale.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Well, the problem is that approaching this level of power would make no sense whatsoever for the other high tiers, such as the admirals, Whitebeard's captains, Luffy, and the Shishibukai, as they have not remotely demonstrated this kind of scale.

So in your opinion, this is likely an outlier yes?

 

[Antvasima]

We would not know how to make them all fit together in such a context. Although I suppose that we could treat it as inaccurate powerscaling from the author, and strictly upgrade Whitebeard and Shanks. It would look very strange to visitors though.

 

[Antvasima]

Most likely either an outlier or Marvel-style inaccurate powerscaling, yes.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

@Antvasima: Hmm. That could very well be the case. I do like to see more of what the others think.

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

I don't think this is an outlier at all, for the following reasons.

1) Whitebeard has the most destructive Devil Fruit in the verse. He naturally reaches higher levels of DC based on that.

2) Whitebeard was Bloodlusted. He had just watched Oars Jr. die in front of him.

3) Admirals have Casual Island Level feats. With Awakening and Full Power/Bloodlust, it wouldn't be too much to say that Admirals should be in the Country+ range.

4) Whitebeard had not been stabbed by Squard or entered combat.

So, all this proves is that a Full Power, Blood Lusted, with an Attack Potency Related Hax, One Piece High Tier is Small Continent.

This SHOULD be accepted and added to Whitebeard's profile.

HOWEVER, it can not be used to Power Scale ANYONE ELSE to Small Continent. As I said, his Devil Fruit highly compliments his Attack Potency.

This could be used to scale Admirals to at least Small Country level though.

 

[Salavtore]

I think an upgrade may come for him soon. He's comparable to the other yonkou who have yet to show their true colors too. They are massively superior compared to most of the admirals (at least as far as we seen whitebeard take on the admirals).

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

I think an upgrade may come for him soon. He's comparable to the other yonkou who have yet to show their true colors too. They are massively superior compared to most of the admirals (at least as far as we seen whitebeard take on the admirals).

The Admirals were stronger than Whitebeard at MF, not in DC, but in all other categories.

 

[Salavtore]

All together sure. however i don't think that was the case when they are by themselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC8Re4yYClo

 

[Salavtore]

(Btw in the manga, white beard gets a portion of his face blown off but he keeps fighting like a tank)

 

[Wade_Kali_Strine]

In the manga, WB only lands a hit on Akainu because Aka is in the middle of clashing with Marco. He landed a cheap ahot, then Akainu blows off half his face, then he gets only one more hit. Also, he then got killed by Blackbeard and Crew. Akainu went on to fight the ENTIRE WB Crew at the same time, while chasing Jinbei.

 

[Kambetal1]

btw guys we need to downgrade Luffy. KKG is invalid as NF has stated.


The Doffy freefall was completely invalid, even RIB78 himself acknowledged that he had been propelled by KKG yet was apparently falling from rest, so he's clearly hiding an outlier.


One could just go off of Potential Energy but this means a downgrade for many characters.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, as I mentioned earlier, the problem is that it does not make any sense to upgrade Whitebeard to this level yet, given that all other characters have shown so much lower demonstrations of power. At least not until we more of what the Admirals and Yonkou can truly do.

As for Luffy's King Kong Gun, it seemed valid enough, as it is reasonably in line with other feats.

 

[Kambetal1]

Seemed valid, formulae are all correct, scaling was somewhat polarising but generally okay, just the timeframe thing (which makes a huge difference for kinetic energy calcs) was without a doubt flawed. NF doesn't accept it and the fact that VBwiki just skipped over it is disappointing to say in the least. The huge changes that KKG made for lots of people is now invalid which is problematic.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

i had a problem with this calc mainly because the original 117 gigaton calc seemed less assumtious.
regardless it does not change the rest of the verse's power, WB is the god tier he may only scal to gol d roger, and thats about it....

Currently, Kuzan is scaled to Sakazuki who is scaled to WB

 

[Antvasima]

Well, if somebody could find scans for the "bloodlusted" attack that Whitebeard used to punch through Akainu and Marineford, I could ask the calculation group to take a look at it. Would that be acceptable?

 

[Sabertoothunter]

The calc was great. If any complains are there then it could be the calculation or bunch of people trying to downplay or reason with something which will be disproved in future.

Legit top tier hinted being WAY MORE powerful than what he seemed to be at war, Oda isn't the man to throw up and waste words, Blackbeard will prove and show Gura Gura's true capability saying this today for sure. What we saw at Marineford was probably like a trailer for movie dedicated to a great devil fruit.

Shanks and Mihawk while being presumably weaker than there current state were hinted to shake the Grand Line (larger distance than WB's quake even if it's question of shaking area few Islands away). We have Chinjao being capable of splitting Ice Continent, Island+ level (Who gets one shotted and extremely overpowered by Garp's semi casual punch, yes referring to manga here)

Akainu LEGITMATELY stalemated the quake of Whitebeard at it's epicentre he only got hit when he was caught off guard. Yonkos are comparable to one other.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. The problem is that I am not sure how to make the statistics of different One Piece characters fit together into a hierarchy if we allow this upgrade?

Luffy's greatest feat was Large Mountain level at best after all, and he does not appear to be over 100000 times weaker than Whitebeard and the admirals.

Has anybody got some thought through suggestions, or should we consider this feat as an ill-considered outlier that does not fit in with all other feats in the series?

 

[Basilisk1995]

Shannks and Mihawk shake Grand line thats a metaphor dude.You cant be serious.Einsteins theory shaked the world!!So Einstein's theory is planet level!!! And if in the future we find proof that this feat is ok.Then obviously this will be accepted.Until then.....

 

[Antvasima]

Well, again, if somebody can find scans of the feat in which Whitebeard hit Akainu and Marineford as hard as he could, I can ask the calculation group to take a look at them.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

Honestly, i do see Luffy being 100,000 times weaker than top tier One-Piece. Given the fact that One-Piece has another 15+ years left in it.

Luffy barely beat Doflamingo, if it wasn't for the other pirates, Luffy would have lost.

Doflamingo is nothing compared to Marco, who is nothing compared to Borsalino, who is nothing compared to Sakazuki, who is weaker than WB.

 

[Antvasima]

Doflamingo stopped Jozu in his tracks, and Jozu is not supposed to be too far behind Marco, who barely held his own against one of the admirals. 100000 times weaker does not make any logical sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, Luffy held his own against one of the admirals, Fujitora, who was also pushed back by Doflamingo's web.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

Also, Luffy held his own against one of the admirals, Fujitora, who was also pushed back by Doflamingo's web.

Issho wan't going hard, it was a plot-point that he didn't want to kill the Straw Hats.

Being a slacker/lazy is part of Borsalino's archetype, it's doubtful that he was trying against Marco.

 

[Basilisk1995]

Well, if somebody could find scans for the "bloodlusted" attack that Whitebeard used to punch through Akainu and Marineford, I could ask the calculation group to take a look at it. Would that be acceptable?

That attack is in chapter 575.Here is the link

And probably there is a way we could accept this.But before that I need to know something.What is environmental destruction?

Environmental destruction is I think a kind of destruction a character can cause which only affects the environment but It doesn't directly affect any other person.And the character can't use this power for any of his other attack or technique.And it doesn't directly relate to his attack potency.

If this is what environmental destruction is then WB's quake can be accepted as an environmental destruction.Cause WB can creake such quake only when he is trying to create an earthquake.In chapter 564 you can see that WB throws his hands in the air and acts like he is trying to pull somethink down which as a result creates an earthquake,tilts the island and sea.And it doesn't directly affect anyone just the environment.And this is the feat which was calculated to be 1.17 petatons.In the same chapter after a while later when WB punches a vice admiral we see no clear earthquake.His normal punches which he normally uses for attacking creakes cracks in the air.But no earthquake.

So it would be like: Large island level, Small continent level via environmental destruction.

 

[LordAizenSama]

If it was considered inconsistent Where does that put WhiteBeard Exactly? Island level or at least Island level? because the next best feat that comes to mind is ChinJao's. Unfortunately im seeing very few alternatives other then calling it a inconsistency until we see better feats from other chars.I also don't think upgrading the admirals/other chars further is a good idea.