WhiteBeard possible Upgrade/Downgrade.

[LordAizenSama]

Sure no problem

 

[Basilisk1995]

OK.Looks like things got resolved.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. Feel free to start then. You can tell me on my personal message page if some pages need to be unlocked.

Btw: I technically agree with that the Bleach pages are quite a mess in terms of power structure, but that is a separate problem, and several wrongs do not make a right.

 

[Antvasima]

@Basilisk1995 I hope so. Thank you for the help.

 

[DontTalk]

About the 1.17 Petaton calc:

A 4.5 earthquake is supposed to be a light earthquake. (like the page that he uses as basis of the calc states). That is an earthquake that actually doesn't cause any damage or injuries.

He gets that the ground shakes up 5 meters (5000 mm) at the epicenter. That would destroy absolutely anything that stands there. It means you would basically see a 5 meter tall wave of earth come at you. Nothing survives that and all buildings would certainly be destroyed.


Why he is wrong scientifically? Hard to say. Earthquake science is empirical in such regards. I believe the statistics used for those aren't made to be used for calculating amplitude at 0 distance.

This formula he uses would for example give -infinite for 0 distance from the epicenter. (Ôêåt would be 0 and log(0) = -infinite (or undefined to be precise)).

 

[Basilisk1995]

@Basilisk1995 I hope so. Thank you for the help.

You're welcome.Happy to help whenever I can.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

@UncleSpaceman Akainu & Aokiji faught for 10 days.Akainu directly scales to Aokiji.Your suggesstion is WB,Roger Garp,Akainu,Aokiji all Small continent level???What about Kizaru,Shanks,Dragon,Kaido,Blackbeard and Shiki??

Kuzan is roughly equal/slightly weaker than Sakazuki after the time-skip, not at MarineFord. Borsalino is the weakest of the original Admirals, and should not be Small Continent Level. BB is more of a hax-man than an ap-man, so he should most likely not be Small Continent Level. We don't know if Shank's & Dragons power come from hax or ap, so we can't rank them at Small Continent Level. Only though direct statements or events should we scale characters to WB.

So, it would only be Roger, Garp, WB, Sakazuki, & Kuzan at Small Continent Level.

 

[Antvasima]

@DontTalk So we should not place Whitebeard as Small Continent level in environmental damage then?

 

[Antvasima]

@UncleSpaceman Please stop interupting. Thank you.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Thank you. Feel free to start then. You can tell me on my personal message page if some pages need to be unlocked.
Btw: I technically agree with that the Bleach pages are quite a mess in terms of power structure, but that is a separate problem, and several wrongs do not make a right.

oh, I agree with that also don't worry.

 

[DontTalk]

@Antvasima:

Based on the calc? No. There is just something wrong with it, so the result shouldn't be used at all.

 

[Antvasima]

All right then. Thank you for the help.

LordAizenSama, please take note that you should not upgrade any One Piece characters to Small Continent level in environmental destruction capacity.

 

[LordAizenSama]

Understood.

 

[Antvasima]

It would be helpful if you could check through the pages for the other adjustments though, and check in Whitebeard's profile that it does not make reference to the now invalid "feat". He should probably be mentioned as Large Island level via powerscaling instead.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

so are we keeping him with the tetraton answer?

 

[Basilisk1995]

so are we keeping him with the tetraton answer?

The teraton answer was also for earthquake meaning environmental damage.Not WB's any direct attack.

 

[Antvasima]

No, if DontTalk says that the premise is invalid, and your calculation gives a much lower value for a full force attack, we have to powerscale Whitebeard from Chinjao and the Admirals instead.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

No, if DontTalk says that the premise is invalid, and your calculation gives a much lower value for a full force attack, we have to powerscale Whitebeard from Chinjao and the Admirals instead.

the thing i got was the minimum energy to do that stuff, but yeah, i havent heard of aoe limitation in one piece, so that rift and building feat was not impressive

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that DontTalk said that he might take a look at remaking the calculation later, so we will see if something comes out of it.

 

[CHILLVIBEZZ]

I don't get it are one piece characters weaker when older or do ppl just consider it so?Because Doffy being supposedly weaker than prime Chinjao seems odd to me.

 

[Antvasima]

It would be strange if they are not considerably weaker when older.

 

[Sabertoothunter]

If I'm not mistaken quakes are caused due to hypocentre point right under the epicentre? And the cause at epicentre is one that of devastation. One seen with every quake he had made.

The Tsunami wave's height caused by WB was roughly 3 to 4 times that of highest Tsunami ever recorded. His quakes no matter what were still felt on Long Ring Island. It possessed that much energy that thousands of kms far it's impact as light quake is still felt.

In simpler words he treated WB's quake as epicentre and the total distance it covered as total distance. Unless the formula he used is wrong then what's the actual problem here? Or what's wrong with it? I have never seen a quake pulverize complete MASSIVE area of impact at it's epicentre. Here I say "massive" because pulverizing/violently fragmentizing or even fragmentizing area at epicentre was completely visible.

 

[Kambetal1]

If I'm not mistaken quakes are caused due to hypocentre point right under the epicentre? And the cause at epicentre is one that of devastation. One seen with every quake he had made.
The Tsunami wave's height caused by WB was roughly 3 to 4 times that of highest Tsunami ever recorded. His quakes no matter what were still felt on Long Ring Island. It possessed that much energy that thousands of kms far it's impact as light quake is still felt.

In simpler words he treated WB's quake as epicentre and the total distance it covered as total distance. Unless the formula he used is wrong then what's the actual problem here? Or what's wrong with it? I have never seen a quake pulverize complete MASSIVE area of impact at it's epicentre. Here I say "massive" because pulverizing/violently fragmentizing or even fragmentizing area at epicentre was completely visible.

Earthuakes are created by tectonic plates converging, and subducting. The epicentre is the point on the SURFACE vertically above the focus/hypocentre. Hypocentre in this case is the same as epicentre.


What's wrong with the calc? Using an incredibly quick boat speed (a method flawed as it is) to calculate distance. + It's a mega outlier.

 

[Sabertoothunter]

If I'm not mistaken quakes are caused due to hypocentre point right under the epicentre? And the cause at epicentre is one that of devastation. One seen with every quake he had made.
The Tsunami wave's height caused by WB was roughly 3 to 4 times that of highest Tsunami ever recorded. His quakes no matter what were still felt on Long Ring Island. It possessed that much energy that thousands of kms far it's impact as light quake is still felt.

In simpler words he treated WB's quake as epicentre and the total distance it covered as total distance. Unless the formula he used is wrong then what's the actual problem here? Or what's wrong with it? I have never seen a quake pulverize complete MASSIVE area of impact at it's epicentre. Here I say "massive" because pulverizing/violently fragmentizing or even fragmentizing area at epicentre was completely visible.

Earthuakes are created by tectonic plates converging, and subducting. The epicentre is the point on the SURFACE vertically above the focus/hypocentre. Hypocentre in this case is the same as epicentre.


What's wrong with the calc? Using an incredibly quick boat speed (a method flawed as it is) to calculate distance. + It's a mega outlier.

You brought up nothing new to table with "Earthquake are created by bla bla" chit chat. Hypocenter point, search it up and then talk please. Epicenter =/= Hypocentre (focus) where what you said happens.

The so called "outlier" part has already been debunked by me previously. Go back and read it. I can literally start counting names of MANY verses relatively similar to One Piece having way stronger top tiers than Protagonist.

Flawed Method? You're the first one to bring that up, considering it's fastest way to reach there hence fastest boat available for ailment to Shichibukai/Pirate inside a fictional verse. 16.46 m/s is a very generous speed for that. it's not like he used a motorboat's speed XD

 

[Antvasima]

Saber: I have talked with the calculation group, and they will take a look at calculating this in a few days. In the meantime, please avoid making a fuss about it. Thank you.

 

[Sabertoothunter]

@Ant

No I'm not making fuss about this. I'm inside laughing at how terrible reasoning are coming up to downplay things around. What has been actual debunk to the original calc? Except DontTalk (a guy I respect, with you on my list too) everyone solely rely on just bouncing with "outliers" & "inconsistent" word. We are here for a healthy reasonable discussion not just "opinions" to turn down something.

This is like how OBD treats Bleach, the part I hate about them. And don't get me wrong I speak up my mind, take that as a review from one of bittersweet members around who are loyal because they speak truth. I'm not going to give rave review for the way discussion has been going around. I literally have been repeating my points continuosly for defence of this.

As for calculation team doing that, sure I can wait and trust.

 

[Antvasima]

All right then.

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Kkapoios/Whitebeard's_Quakes_(calc)

 

[Kambetal1]

Because Whitebeard IS, in fact, a top tier and not beyond that. We don't even know what 'Primebeard' can do.


Whitebeard being small continent makes pretty much everyone else small continent in durability WHILST island+ level which is a MASSIVE discrepancy and obviously flawed.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

@Kkapoios

The occurrence of an earthquake is a complex energy conversion process. When an earthquake occurs, much of the available local energy is used to power the earthquake fracture growth, producing heat rather than generating seismic waves which radiate outward and are detected by seismographs.

The seismic moment is a measure of the total amount of energy that is transformed during an earthquake. Usually only 1-10 percent or less of an earthquake's total energy is released in the form of radiated seismic waves.

- Source

Hence, you need to calculate the seismic moment, the maximum value for the seismic moment calculatoris a 10.5 magnitude. Our value is 10.9, so using 10.5 would only yield a lower value.

Plugging a 10.5 magnitude into the calculator, we get 6.934258e+24 joules or 1.65732743786 petatons of TNT. A 10.9 magnitude would be even higher.

 

[Antvasima]

@UncleSpaceman Well, let's wait until DontTalk and TLT1 have taken a look at this, but if you are correct, this would still only affect Whitebeard's environmental destruction ability, not his attack potency.

And again, that is final. I don't want to waste time arguing the same things over again. In addition, One Piece is my favourite manga, so I don't want any comments that I am driven by lowballing hatred. I am strictly interested in seeing the statistics fit together. Thank you.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Same here, Ant. If anything, i'm literally losing interest to the point that i might not give my legit input on this.

 

[Antvasima]

I am sorry to hear that. Still, I have to try to investigate how to make One Piece fit together with the King Kong Gun calculation possibly having to be redone, and Whitebeard having to be checked up as well.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Oh, i might give it. Just only until we can come to an actual conlusion on this.

Hmm. How's this, Ant: Large Island level AP with Continent enviromental destruction?

 

[Antvasima]

That is what I am considering, but I would prefer if DontTalk and TLT1 can confirm if UncleSpaceman is correct.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

That is what I am considering, but I would prefer if DontTalk and TLT1 can confirm if UncleSpaceman is correct.

Oh my bad. Well even if Space is correct, we then have to figure out about the durability issue (unless y'all have that figured out, that is).

 

[Antvasima]

Basically inconsistency, given that Whitebeard was repeatedly injured and finally killed by Island and Large Island level characters. He seems to be a bit of a glass cannon in this regard.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, we don't see him launch any attacks here. The environment is simply responding to his mood.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Also, we don't see him launch any attacks here. The environment is simply responding to his mood.

Hmm, yes....

 

[Gwynbleiddd]

@Kkapoios
The occurrence of an earthquake is a complex energy conversion process. When an earthquake occurs, much of the available local energy is used to power the earthquake fracture growth, producing heat rather than generating seismic waves which radiate outward and are detected by seismographs.

The seismic moment is a measure of the total amount of energy that is transformed during an earthquake. Usually only 1-10 percent or less of an earthquake's total energy is released in the form of radiated seismic waves.

- Source

Hence, you need to calculate the seismic moment, the maximum value for the seismic moment calculatoris a 10.5 magnitude. Our value is 10.9, so using 10.5 would only yield a lower value.

Plugging a 10.5 magnitude into the calculator, we get 6.934258e+24 joules or 1.65732743786 petatons of TNT. A 10.9 magnitude would be even higher.

You seem to forget that Whitebeard's queakes don't fanction the same way earthquakes do ,he just produce seismic energy without all the other effects because he causes them with his punches and not the "traditional" way.