WhiteBeard possible Upgrade/Downgrade.

[Antvasima]

@LordAizenSama What do you think about Basilisk1995's suggestion that we can call it "Small Continent level via environmental destruction"?

 

[Basilisk1995]

Aokiji's marineford ice age is also Small Island level (High 7-A). See calc

 

[LordAizenSama]

I have no problem with it, WB has shown great AoE with the use of his power, and at least it doesn't completely disregard his feat

 

[Antvasima]

All right. I have asked our calculation team to take a look at the feat that Basilisk1995 linked to, so let's wait a while until they have had the chance to do so.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Also, Luffy held his own against one of the admirals, Fujitora, who was also pushed back by Doflamingo's web.

No he didn't, he just threw a bunch of attacks that ll got blocked with ease

 

[Basilisk1995]

WB also destroyed frozen Tsunami

 

[Basilisk1995]

Also, Luffy held his own against one of the admirals, Fujitora, who was also pushed back by Doflamingo's web.

No he didn't, he just threw a bunch of attacks that ll got blocked with ease

Doffy and Law held their own against Fujitora quiet well.And luffy is stronger than both.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

Also, Luffy held his own against one of the admirals, Fujitora, who was also pushed back by Doflamingo's web.

No he didn't, he just threw a bunch of attacks that ll got blocked with ease

Doffy and Law held their own against Fujitora quiet well.And luffy is stronger than both.

As iv'e said before, Issho was not trying, in the least.

 

[Antvasima]

Even if he was not trying hard (which I certainly had the impression that he did against Doflamingo's web), it still does not remotely make any sense that he would have been operating at 0.001% capacity.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, why would the Marine consider the shishibukai a powerful force to use during the Whitebeard war if the admirals or Whitebeard could sneeze them all into oblivion?

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

ok i dont know about one piece that much

so the importnat thing is,- was this a one time thing that actually goes against what is regularly shown (like WB having trouble with much weaker opponents) ? (i do not know). If whitebeard is practically untouchable, then a high value becomes more acceptable, if he has trouble with foes that are like low 6-C or 6-C then the calc will fall under suspicioins for its assumptions.


overall, the calculation looks sane, (i do not know about one piece that much, so idk how much information verification i am missing out due to 2 unavalaible scans on his post), but there are some assumtpions. So this may affect the validations. If he consistantly shows lower levels of power andd loses to much weaker beings, then the assumptions might make this invalid. But if he definitely is a high top/ god tier, then i can see the calc as reasonable.

but the technicalitites themselves are fine (calculation itself seems ok

so, to me, just by looking at that calc, and nothing else (not the story or any other showings), high 6-B wb and 6-A WB at prime seems to be ok

 

[Antvasima]

Well, as we stated earlier, there are too high contradictions regarding the feat. However, we would need help calculating when a bloodlusted/full force Whitebeard struck through Akainu and Marineford in this chapter: http://*********.com/Manga/One-Piece/Chapter-575?id=251015

 

[LordAizenSama]

@TLT yes it was a one time thing, and tier 6-C's can put up a decent match with him and harm him,and even somewhat tank his bloodlusted attacks. and this is the problem.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

well then, if that is the case, then the second re calc he made shud probably be ignored and we shud just go with the first thing he calulated

that is low 6-B, the rest of it can be rehashed with the argument of him having trouble with 6-C's and if he did beat them then low 6-B also fita just fine (to beat 6-Cs that is)

well, since you have pointed out the multiple contradictions, then the petaton thing may as well be an outlier

 

[Antvasima]

Can you calculate when Whitebeard strikes Akainu full force and devastates Marineford as a side effect please? It would give us something reliable to gauge his practical combat power by.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

how long is that island, and did he crack it completely?

 

[LordAizenSama]

theres a calc for the MarineFord here

 

[Sabertoothunter]

"Metaphor" Whitebeard isn't a guy to throw Metaphors and him sitting on one side of New World feeling the duel is another thing. Plus on top of it Shanks vs Mihawk duels were said to be felt across the Grand Line to people by believing his words. It's probably not ony just Whitebeard who shares the same feeling.

100000 times weaker doesn't make any sense? It's fiction for a reason. Yhwach is GODLY above other people backing him up in his team and captains. We have him at Moon level and possible "Planet level" which is billions to trillions of times (wild minimum guess) above Current Ichigo. Why another top tier character with god tier fruit in the verse is being treated differently?

It's actually WAY LOWER than what Sengoku and Tsuru + old hags shown around the world saying "it's end of the world" or "he can bring end of the world" statements, those are reliable opinion from two highly ranked Marines and people who belonged (alive then) to Whitebeard's Prime Era. What Oda says or write is like written fixed carvation on rock, almost everything he has written has attached meaning to it. Who knows Blackbeard with awakened Gura Gura not holding back literally can do EOS, that is I believe when we truly see what Prime WB could've done.

BB at Marineford OUTDID Old sick WB on Marineford, his quakes were so strong that they became cause of chaos for people at Sabody reason being possible huge Tsunami there. None of WB quakes did that and if people here know how tremors/quake work it's clear BB who was blindly using Gura's power not holding back at all probably caused a stronger quake than any WB's quake at War.

Luffy has a LONG way to go, who knows we might have another timeskip.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

soooooo is this not an outlier then?

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Saber in short, going with as few assumptions as possible is the best, you're using to many assumptions.

also the "it's Fiction for a reason" is a nothing point, There is in-story logic that needs to make sense.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

so are we finalized on this one in particular?

 

[Antvasima]

Well, Luffy is gradually going up against the Yonkou Big Mom and Kaidou, presumably without a timeskip.

Regardless, perhaps we could use Whitebeard's feat against Akainu as his regular combat power, and the other one as environmental destruction? That would seem to make more sense.

Btw: How many joules did this calculatio end up with? I couldn't find a value. If it strictly estimates the size, perhaps it could be used as a basis for a joules/energy calculation?

 

[LordAizenSama]

@Ant yeah that calc was just for TLT who was asking for a size on MarineFord, nothing else

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Well, Luffy is gradually going up against the Yonkou Big Mom and Kaidou, presumably without a timeskip.
Regardless, perhaps we could use Whitebeard's feat against Akainu as his regular combat power, and the other one as environmental destruction? That would seem to make more sense.

Btw: How many joules did this calculatio end up with? I couldn't find a value. If it strictly estimates the size, perhaps it could be used as a basis for a joules/energy calculation?

that calc gives a volume for the rift

assuming that much rock was destroyed in a particular way, the results will vary, .eg, using the obd values such as violemnt fragmentation (of 120 J/cc) gives an energy of 2.25 x 10^15 J, using their value for pulverization of 214.35 J/cc, we get a value of 4 x 10^15 J ---> for that rift alone (both of which are like large town level) - this is not including that building

 

[Sabertoothunter]

Similarly Ichigo is GOING against Yhwach soon. This is downright biased case. And lame points. The fact Ichigo is going to face a top god tier soon in his verse who is BILLIONS to TRILLIONS time stronger in DC doesn't matter. But when Luffy who could barely defeat Doflamingo who is fodder to Kaido everyone here bats an eye at Luffy "100,000" times weaker.

@Aizen Assumptions? What? You have the calc sir. Debunk the facts. Plus it doesn't change the fact it's supposedly LOWER than what WB was ACTUALLY hinted at. Same could be the case with Soul King where you guys place him at isn't it?

And Rest what I said is given manga statements. Plus BB outdoing WB a rookie at Gura Gura is FACT again unless you don't know how tremors work like I said.

 

[LordAizenSama]

that comparison With Ichigo and bleach, is completely pointless and meaningless. Bias? hardly.Ichigo is currently losing (Actually he already got defeated offscreen) to Yhwach's lackies and is likely to get another powerup like the one he got against Aizen.

as for assumptions I was talking about your entire post not the calc. Having a continent whitebeard is inconsistent, and your only argument for that is "well it is fiction so doesn't matter." hardly a convincing argument..

 

[Basilisk1995]

1.As I suspected that particular attack wasn't gonna be much.So Now in one piece the best quantifiable AP belongs to Prime Chinjao.(Lets hope this is not screwed up in any way).[8 gigatons island level]

2.Aokiji's ice age 1.2 gigatons Small island level.(High 7-A)

3.Aokiji and Akainu's 10 day long fight only destroyed an island's surface and changed environment didn't do anything to the actual island's bedrock.

So my suggestion is to use powerscaling

All Admirals' and Sengoku's AP: Island level (should be stronger than prime chinjao)

WB's AP: Large island level (far stronger than the admirals) , Small continent level via environmental destruction

Akainu's durabulity: Island level, likely large island level(tanked WB's bloodlusted attack)

Roger's AP: Large island level (comparable to WB)

Garp's AP : Large island level (comparable to WB and roger)

Shiki's AP : Large island level (it took garp and sengoku to take him down)

Blackbeard's AP: Island level, Country level via environmental destruction(stole WB's power)

Shanks,Dragon,Kaido,Mihawk they also should be just island level.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

The Soul King & Yhwach are ranked at Planet Level based on statements alone.

Old WhiteBeard has a calculation that puts him at Small Continent Level, which lends evidence to Prime WhiteBeard being Planet Level.

 

[UncleSpaceman]

that comparison With Ichigo and bleach, is completely pointless and meaningless. Bias? hardly.Ichigo is currently losing (Actually he already got defeated offscreen) to Yhwach's lackies and is likely to get another powerup like the one he got against Aizen.
as for assumptions I was talking about your entire post not the calc. Having a continent whitebeard is inconsistent, and your only argument for that is "well it is fiction so doesn't matter." hardly a convincing argument..

... Didn't Yhwach say Ichigo is stronger than when he fought Aizen? Ichigo's power-up was getting his true zanpakuto and learning about his quincy heritage...

One Piece has another 15+ years to go, heck, whose to say it won't have another time-skip. Fact is, Luffy is dirt compared to the likes of Sakazuki or White Beard.

 

[Basilisk1995]

@Saber Ichigo only has True Shikai,Before he fights Yhawch I am pretty sure He will get True Bankai.That will close the Gap.After yhwach performed moon level feat he didn't lose to or get overwhelmed by any weaker character.But WB got regularly overwhelmed by the admirals.

 

[The_Living_Tribunal1]

Well, Luffy is gradually going up against the Yonkou Big Mom and Kaidou, presumably without a timeskip.
Regardless, perhaps we could use Whitebeard's feat against Akainu as his regular combat power, and the other one as environmental destruction? That would seem to make more sense.

Btw: How many joules did this calculatio end up with? I couldn't find a value. If it strictly estimates the size, perhaps it could be used as a basis for a joules/energy calculation?

that calc gives a volume for the rift
assuming that much rock was destroyed in a particular way, the results will vary, .eg, using the obd values such as violemnt fragmentation (of 120 J/cc) gives an energy of 2.25 x 10^15 J, using their value for pulverization of 214.35 J/cc, we get a value of 4 x 10^15 J ---> for that rift alone (both of which are like large town level) - this is not including that building

as for the building, if we assume that it is a large hunk of rock (which it isnt- just making it for a reference- for an extreme high end reference)

and taking the separation as 10 meters, we can use volume of a 3-D trapehezium ---> (h/2)(L)(the distance between 2 splits x2) (i did the x 2 thing since difference shud be same in front and back)

this gives (979.8/2)(10 +10)(915.7) = 8972028.6 m^3 or 8.97 x 10^12 cc

using high end energy (pulverization for this) gives us 8.97 x 10^12 x 214.35 = 1.92 x10^15J

keep in mind however, this is assuming that that whole building was solid rock - which was not the case, so the actual inimum energy needed is much lower

so, adding both high ends gives us (1.92 + 4) x 10^15 J = 5.92 x 10^15J

but for reasons stated above, this is acctually more than the actual needed amount of energy, still this amount fits under small city level. The actuaal energy however should be less, but not all that small. We know making that rift itself is on the very edge of large town, so even a relatively hollow building shoudl be enough to push it to low end small city level (if both these feats were done simulateously)

so tbh, this is kinda low for regular levels for a low 6-B

so all of this info went for nothing then

ALSO I WAS USING VALUES FROM OBD ITSELF- FOR PULVERIZING AND ALL THAT

 

[UncleSpaceman]

@Saber Ichigo only has True Shikai,Before he fights Yhawch I am pretty sure He will get True Bankai.That will close the Gap.After yhwach performed moon level feat he didn't lose to or get overwhelmed by any weaker character.But WB got regularly overwhelmed by the admirals.

The only Admiral who have WB any trouble was Sakazuki, which would mean Sakazuki should be Small Continent Level too...

WhiteBeard has crazy attack power, but has very low defensive ability, he makes up for that with his Captains. Except at MarineFord, WB ordered his Captains to protect Luffy instead of himself, which made WB vulnerable.

 

[Sabertoothunter]

Inconsistent with what? It being a settled feat? Or him being a God tier of the verse?

Tell me how Yhwach who is going to be defeated by Ichigo sooner than later is irrelevant here? Yes Ichigo will recieve some power up "billions of times powerful" but how can you even see G4 tickling Kaido? I don't see that personally.

We do know right there's MASSIVE difference between Yhwach and his men. We also know Ichigo lost not due to being weaker but hax.

Yhwach being a god tier is MASSIVELY above others. How isn't that inconsistent? But WB being lower than what he was hinted at and top tier with god tier fruit is inconsistent?

 

[Basilisk1995]

@UncleSpaceman Akainu & Aokiji faught for 10 days.Akainu directly scales to Aokiji.Your suggesstion is WB,Roger Garp,Akainu,Aokiji all Small continent level???What about Kizaru,Shanks,Dragon,Kaido,Blackbeard and Shiki??

 

[LordAizenSama]

Also Sorry @Saber, I didn't mean to erase most of that msg, meant to click quote xD

 

[Antvasima]

All right this is starting to get out of hand, with claims of bias and that Prime Whitebeard was Planet level. One Piece is my favourite manga and comicbook, but everybody should calm down or leave this discussion.

Personally I think that Basilisk1995 is making sense.

 

[Antvasima]

Here is what DontTalk replied when I asked him:

"Hm.... earthquake stuff is difficult, because it is empirical.

What I can tell is that his second calculation is obviously wrong. A 4.5 earthquake is supposed to be a light earthquake. He gets that the ground shakes up 5 meters at the epicenter. That would destroy absolutely anything that stands there.

Reason for that could be that the formulas for the magnitude over distance aren't made to be used for the origin (The formula he uses later in the calc would for example give -infinite for the origin).

So that part of the calc is wrong. I will look if I can get a realistic estimation, but I am not sure. Earthquakes are complicated."

 

[LordAizenSama]

I agree with Basilisk's Points also

 

[Antvasima]

Would you be willing to do the revisions Aizen?

 

[Antvasima]

Also, thanks to TLT1 for making a calculation.