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Universal DMC: Dante's Awakening

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@DarkDragonMedeus

It would definitely scale to Dante and isn't an outlier for him.In the DMC volume 2 novel which happens right before DMC2, he stomps Void Mundus who is stronger than both Argosax and regular Mundus.
 
Callsign Castle said:
"but I still really prefer to let Matt decide whether the 3-A feat is legit."
Do you have a bias?
Click to expand...
That's surely a harsh way to put it. Matt has always been considered the most trusted member here. Even if we disagree with him, surely people considering him reliable is to be expected.
 
@Callsign Castle, I really don't. But yeah, as DarkGrath said, Matt's is easily one of the most knowledgeable people here and had been extremely helpful. I'm not saying he's a god whose word is absolute, but he's the one who went through so much to downgrade the Universal DMC characters, so his opinion is important.

Again, I did say it was more neutral and agree that it would effect Dante if it's legit. So I'd give him some time yes.
 
I agree with Medeus. It is possible that Kepekley's argument will convince Matthew, or he might consider the feat an outlier too far above the regular scale, but he should nevertheless be treated with respect, not constant potshots, as has been common lately.
 
Truthfully, is Matt the deciding factor here? I'm inferring from both your post and DarkDragonMedeus's post that there will be no progress without his approval, regardless of the argument.
 
It depends how long we wait for him and/or what he says; he'd probably respond with something tomorrow. If he like pretty much nothing or takes longer than he says he will, then we probably could go through and he would need to make another thread later if he has problems. But he at least deserves a chance to give a proper/elaborate refute.
 
Callsign Castle said:
Truthfully, is Matt the deciding factor here? I'm inferring from both your post and DarkDragonMedeus's post that there will be no progress without his approval, regardless of the argument.
Click to expand...
I've argued against Matthew being considered the ultimatum in this debate before. While his opinion so far has definitely been considered the most valuable, it's been clear by the fact that he's disagreed with it for so long and yet the thread is still going that there is clearly more to it. Besides, while Matt being the ultimatum would be unreasonable, considering that he is often believed to be the most knowledgable member, his input is extremely valuable.
 
Well, technically Azathoth and DontTalkDT are usually the most knowledgeable members, but I obviously agree that it is very preferable to come to an agreement with Matthew.
 
Well, I don't think any user should be called "The most knowledgeable", but there are several who are close; DonTalkDT and Azathoth are among them yes though; but Matt, Kepekley, AssaltWaffle, Ultima Reality, and Sera are all very knowledgeable as well.
 
My apologies, my phrasing there was pretty bad. I meant to say that he is often considered the most knowledgable member specifically for DMC related matters. And even then, that might be a slight exaggeration since (as Medeus pointed out) it's difficult to call any user the "most" knowledgable. Still, for many matters (especially DMC related threads) his opinion is undoubtedly very valuable.
 
@DarkGrath

Asking for Azzy's opinion won't do any harm, even if he's the only bureaucrat (aside from Ant).
 
TriforcePower1 said:
Prom and Ryukama are triggered
Click to expand...
I know it's a joke, but Ryu said that he has no opinion on the matter, while Prom said she's not ready to go through this thread to take all arguments into consideration and make a proper call.
 
Yeah, I've still contacted Azathoth as I said. He still hasn't gotten back to me though. I'll just give him time. :P
 
DarkGrath said:
Yeah, I've still contacted Azathoth as I said. He still hasn't gotten back to me though. I'll just give him time. :P
Click to expand...
You've removed your post though, he won't be able to see it.
 
Wait, did that actually work? I attempted to do that a few times after Promestein and Ryukama denied helping, but it came up with an error every time. I'll check his message wall again.
 
DarkGrath said:
Wait, did that actually work? I attempted to do that a few times after Promestein and Ryukama denied helping, but it came up with an error every time. I'll check his message wall again.
Click to expand...
Still seems like the message is up?
 
This is unexpected
Yep... I think something's broken.
 
Would you mind contacting him instead? I keep reloading and reopening the page, and nothing is changing. It's completely broken for me.
 
I restored your message to Azathoth.
 
No problem.
 
I consider Argosax' feat an outlier for the same reasons explained by Cal Howard in the previous thread, who abandoned this discussion due to toxicity.
 
That has also been thoroughly argued to not be the case by several people, including Sera. The "outlier" argument is blatantly fallacious in this particular context, as the only reason for that is that the feat in question is above anything else in the verse. Other verses are given a pass (Monogatari comes to my mind), but not DMC, and this really comes off as special treatment, no offense.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
I consider Argosax' feat an outlier for the same reasons explained by Cal Howard in the previous thread, who abandoned this discussion due to toxicity.
Click to expand...
except his reasoning was about whether it has been said more once which it did. Arius was completely stating that the demons are trying to claim what's originalkly theirs. Which is backed up in the manga on how the universes went and split. Another clarification is the guidebook also has the same context as what arius said that their dimension is consuming ours which is reverting to the original form.
 
Also, according to ParadoxIndifferent Argosax is not the only one with a feat of this magnitude, so if the only argument against this one is that it's an outlier, he should feel free to put them here.
 
The outlier argument has been done to death. Currently, practically the only feats we have in the series are from fodder characters. At the absolute best, we have feats from characters who we know are ridiculously below the God Tiers, with the God Tier characters themselves being pratically untouched by any characters below them. Considering the only definitive God Tier feat to be an outlier and suggesting that they continue to be scaled based on fodder feats is literally one of the weakest outlier arguments you could physically make.
 
RebubleUselet said:
That has also been thoroughly argued to not be the case by several people, including Sera. The "outlier" argument is blatantly fallacious in this particular context, as the only reason for that is that the feat in question is above anything else in the verse. Other verses are given a pass (Monogatari comes to my mind), but not DMC, and this really comes off as special treatment, no offense.
Click to expand...
Please don't argue based on other verses. They aren't relevant and wrongs don't make a right.
 
Yes, I have to agree that we should stop using other specific verses as a comparison point here. Using the way the wiki is handled as a whole is okay, but this thread has used comparisons to other verses as evidence for both supporting and rejecting the CRT, so continuing to use such arguments will literally get us nowhere. Even so, my point about this not being an outlier still stands.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
Please don't argue based on other verses. They aren't relevant and wrongs don't make a right.
Click to expand...
Excuse me, but how other verses being given a pass with feats above the usual ones not relevant here, when the exact same thing takes place here?

Also, these other cases being wrong is a pretty bold claim on your part.
 
Excuse me, but how other verses being given a pass with feats above the usual ones not relevant here, when the exact same thing takes place here?

Also, these other cases being wrong is a pretty bold claim on your part.

Because they are completely unrelated. Other verses doing something doesn't necessarily mean it is right.
 
Let's focus on DMC only guys. We can focus on the other verses later.

Either way, I agree with Sera and her supporters on this feat not being an outlier.
 
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