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Universal DMC: Dante's Awakening

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Just because he's powered by a 3-A source != he is 3-A himself. And we are given no reason to believe that he is.
 
Again, admittedly still not convinced about the Saviour being comparable here. Sanctus himself even directly says "The power of Sparda! Why won't you give me strength? Am I not worthy?". I am aware that Sanctus is different (at least slightly) from the Saviour, but it Sanctus was not able to use the true strength of Sparda I see absolutely no reason to believe that the Saviour would. Also, saying the Saviour is comparable to DMC4 Dante is... dubious, to say the least. You could argue, I suppose, that the Saviour survived against Dante for an extremely long time. However, Dante had already promised Credo he would save Nero and he knows that Nero is inside the Saviour. It's far, far more likely that Dante was intentionally not trying to destroy the Saviour completely.
 
I agree with the latter. Savior shouldnt even bescaled. Unless u take the statement that deadly fortune states Nero has more rawpower than dante
 
When Sanctus said "Sparda, why don't you give me strengh ?" he didn't had Nero in his core anymore

Buuuut...

Dante could be casual because if he destroys the Savior he kills Nero and Kyrie

So yeah, it's a bit vague saying that the Savior scales, my bad, guys
 
Alright, I've got to be honest. While I've stated that the Saviour feat is 4-A based on my analysis of what we see in the scene, it has not been nearly debated enough by other people. And this CRT has gone on for way, way too long. How about we leave out the Saviour feat for now, and I'll make a separate CRT later for 4-A Saviour?
 
@DarkGrath is exactly correct on Dante trying to save Nero and not trying to destroy the Saviour completely because of that, and I believe it's explicitly stated that Dante could easily defeat the Saviour.That's exactly what happened in Deadly Fortune but also in Deadly Fortune during the Dante vs Saviour, the Saviour does his special beam attack and Dante is forced to use Dreadnought and although Dante wasn't hurt at all by the Saviour it is notable that the Saviour did that to him.But Dante destroyed the blue gems of the Saviour causing it to weaken and Nero and the Yamato left the Saviour's core.It's entirely possible that the Saviour Dante fought scales to 3-A since that was it at full power with Nero and Sparda.
 
Please, if we can agree to leave the Saviour discussion for later, this thread can back back on track.
 
@Dante Demon Killah

Only using it in this instance to elaborate on things that aren't really contradictions or already implied in the game that just gives us more insight on certain lore since Bingo is the writer of both 4 and Deadly Fortune.
 
I honestly believe that we're done discussing Argosax's feat, as all the arguments proposed by the opposition have been debunked now.
 
I agree. Now all that's left is to discuss the scaling thoroughly (Although it seems to already be done) and decide whose profiles get upgraded.
 
RebubleUselet said:
I honestly believe that we're done discussing Argosax's feat, as all the arguments proposed by the opposition have been debunked now.
Click to expand...
I would like to think so too, but we still have to wait for Matthew here. If he has any new rebuttals, or if he has some new evidence for the outlier argument (both of which I find admittedly quite unlikely, but still plausible) then concluding the thread without him would be disrespectful.
 
The scalling for this feat is pretty much easy to do, and deciding the scalling is useful to the Outlier discussion, so...

DMC 2 Dante scales directly since he defeated Argosax in a 1 vs 1

Mundus scales for being equal to Argosax

Sparda DT Dante scales for defeating Mundus

DMC4 Dante and Pre-Sin DMC5 Dante scales for being stronger than his DMC2 self

Sparda scales for defeating Mundus

Abigail Prime scales for being comparable to Mundus

Urizen is stated to be stronger than Mundus even before the fruit, so he scales

Sin Dante, Sin Vergil and DT Nero are stronger than Urizen, so they scale

You guys agree with this ?
 
I mean, he was given plenty of time to make his reply, but all he did was to say the feat is an outlier based on Cal's reply (who frankly is not really knowledgable on the series), which has been proven wrong to boot. If he had anything else to say, he would have probably told us that beforehand.
 
All looks good to me. So, final tiering would be "3-A" all around? I've got to admit, there is something strangely soothing about the idea that the Tiers of this characters would no longer be unnecessarily long. No more "At least" or "Possibly/Likely". Just plain as day.
 
I understand what you're saying Reb, but would we even be able to get the CRT implemented without Matthew available? Unless someone else is in a position to get the CRT implemented and edit the pages independently, it seems like it would be impossible for this thread to progress further without Matthew (or at least someones) help.
 
I mean, we have Kep's agreement, and trust me, he's arguably as knowledgable on the verse as Matthew, if not more. And so far there were no objections.
 
Ogbunabali said:
This thread needs Matthew and Antvasima's approval before it is concluded, I'm pretty sure.
Click to expand...
Thats why we're waiting for the proposition of the feat whether it would be an outlier etc.
 
I've talked with Antvasima previously about Matthew being the ultimatum. Under current conditions, it seems like Matthew is no longer considered the "be-all, end-all" of the argument, but his input is still extremely important. As for Antvasima himself, he's admitted before that he's definitely not the best person to be asking for when it comes to this CRT, so I doubt he'd reject the CRT purely on his opinion. Either way; same situation. Unless there is someone else who is qualified to accept and implement the CRT, there is not really anything more to say before Matthew returns.
 
But neither waiting a lot for approval from him is getting anywhere,this thread should be concluded by now,he shouldnt be the one that gives the final verdict and this should change,plus others know more about the verse then him,they should be responsible for this
 
BlackDarkness679 said:
But neither waiting a lot for approval from him is getting anywhere,this thread should be concluded by now,he shouldnt be the one that gives the final verdict and this should change,plus others know more about the verse then him,they should be responsible for this
Click to expand...
That will lead to the idea of "we shouldnt count popularity votes"
 
...Look, if I'm being honest, I agree with you. Purely waiting for him to be here for the CRT to be accepted is just demeaning to all the debate and effort put into it by everyone else. But I really don't have a say in the matter. I'm certainly not qualified to confirm the CRT and edit the pages, and I don't know who is. Would Azzy be worth contacting for this?
 
More knowledgable users should be put as the ones to have the final say and no offense,someone which wasnt against the 3-A tier before in the past,cuz even at this point Mat still didnt gave the green light for it,i really doubt he will,he might still argue its an outlier or its too big of a gap
 
Alright. He hasn't responded to my post on his message wall yet; my guess is that he saw the post while it was closed and so didn't bother with it. Should I just post a reply or another post on his message wall? Or should someone else do it?
 
KLOL506 said:
I'll do it.
Click to expand...
Thank you. If this can be resolved ASAP, that would be absolutely brilliant. I've been staying up all night to keep tabs and stay active on this thread; and at this point it's practically not even late at night but rather early in the morning. Hopefully Azzy responds soon. If not, I'll probably collapse on my phone screen. XD
 
Dante Demon Killah said:
We should make a summary, I don't think Azzy have the time to read 400+ posts
Click to expand...
Welp... if you want, I think I have enough fighting power in me to do that.
 
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