Touhou Discussion Thread 3 ⌈Eternal Fantasy Edition⌋

[Shmooply]

Did you only recently find these feats? From what I remember there only really used to be one known feat for Immeasurable speed 2hoe.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Did you only recently find these feats? From what I remember there only really used to be one known feat for Immeasurable speed 2hoe.

I knew about them for a while, idk if I ever shared them previously though. The Marisa one was brought up a long time ago though.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

 

[Deidalius]

Average joe the average human drops into Gensokyo, which characters could he beat?

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Man, reading the Touhou Doujins with Mokou, Kaguya, Keine, and (sometime) Eirin will always lead you to:

• Existential Crisis
• Mild-Life Crisis
• Wanted to spend so much time with your loved ones
• Pursuit to the Death of Universe
• etc....

 

[Guardian_Doge]

 

[Shmooply]

I knew about them for a while, idk if I ever shared them previously though. The Marisa one was brought up a long time ago though.

If this were any other verse I'd suggest trying to find any more similar feats, but considering this is a verse that has consistent FTL and infinite speed feats, you could easily get away with upgrading the cast to immeasurable with just those two.

 

[Huesito88]

Fujiwara actually did bring up both of those feats up in the past (Knives and Marisa, and yes they already had infinite speed) they were both rejected.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Uh, when was this? I only remember making one thread one immeasurable speed, and it was using a misinterpretation of how Deflation World worked (not Time Sign "Tunnel Effect", which is what the new argument is based on).

I think someone else brought up characters fighting Keine while time was reversed, so that's probably what you're thinking of? The arguments will be slightly different here though, as it's Marisa's Master Spark defying time, so it's not like we can argue time resistance (since it's literally just a beam of light).

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

If this were any other verse I'd suggest trying to find any more similar feats, but considering this is a verse that has consistent FTL and infinite speed feats, you could easily get away with upgrading the cast to immeasurable with just those two.

Yeah, I think having it as possibly/likely is for the best. That or scaling it only to combat/reaction speed. No idea where I'd even begin to look for new immeasurable feats though.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I hope that ZUN will touch more of non-japanese/chinese myth stuffs as references in the future, Hecatia is an amazing goddess

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Sooo this seems like some very clear confirmation that PC-98 is canon (source is the Gensou Denshou Lecture). ZUN didn't "reset" anything, and based on comments made pre-PCB, the two eras are in the same timeline. I'm not sure what arguments would really remain, honestly.

 

[Kirbonic_Pikmin]

Sooo this seems like some very clear confirmation that PC-98 is canon (source is the Gensou Denshou Lecture). ZUN didn't "reset" anything, and based on comments made pre-PCB, the two eras are in the same timeline. I'm not sure what arguments would really remain, honestly.

Hard to debate that alongside everything else he’s said lol

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Also, reminder that referring to PC-98 as a reset of fresh start means nothing when ZUN has confirmed that the transition between MS and EoSD was for the exact same reasons as the transition from IN to MoF. He even calls MoF a "reset", so in his mind the change from PC-98 to Windows was more about changing the game engine or cast of characters rather than literally restarting the series from scratch.

ZUN just likes to shift focus to a new cast every once in a while (TH6, 10, and 14 being the main points of a focal shift), it has nothing to do with canonicity.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Y'know, speaking of canonicity, how should we treat Fragment of Phantasy? I've gone back and forth on whether or not it should be usable when mentioning specific characters or species (like the SA segment of earth spirits) and I'm really not sure, since it might violate this site's rules on using real world religion.

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Hi! I just spawned!

My reason to exist here is mainly to ask questions about 2hu and presumably be annoying...

I don't think ill be debating too much (cuz I lack them English skillz) but I will try to post what I think could either disprove or support the debate in question. I don't have much knowledge about VSB and its standards but eh.. if my vote counts I will help you make touhou project as accurate as possible in this wiki! I have red some important CRT's regarding touhou and lemme tell ya that sh** was painful and that is most of what I know.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Hey, welcome. Always glad to see more Touhou supporters here.

Right now, we don't really have a whole lot going on, though hopefully later this year I'll start putting out threads again.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Curious to know what zun’s like. Is he friendly or anything?

 

[Shmooply]

He's drunk.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yeah he's a pretty cool dude. Most manga artists he's worked with do mention how nice he is (iirc Ginmokusei mentioned that he was very kind and understanding when she had to quit CDS due to her disability). He interrupted an interview to call out other guests who were making homophobic jokes at one point, so he's pretty politically based too.

More than that though, it's been kinda interesting seeing how his worldview has changed (not like it's hard to see when he describes Touhou and its setting as an extension of his own worldview) over the years; There's a sort of pessimism about the current and future state of the world in earlier works, while more recent works maintain a similar political worldview while having a bit more optimism (likely a consequence of shifting the focus to themes of chuunibyou).

He also has some pretty interesting takes on game design and gaming in general, so I really like reading interviews where he discusses his thoughts on those topics.

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Saw that fairies were presented as an example in immortality page but was removed due to lack of evidence, I think this is where touhou wiki got it from (I didn't see any mentioning of fairy immortality in recent crt's so Im guessing this wasn't found).

 

[Shmooply]

My memory's foggy, but pretty sure fairies had one extra type of immortality listed on their profile that was later removed due to it being a headcanon that came from the Touhou wiki.

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Huh... I thought immortality type 8 was the only one.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Yeah he's a pretty cool dude. Most manga artists he's worked with do mention how nice he is (iirc Ginmokusei mentioned that he was very kind and understanding when she had to quit CDS due to her disability). He interrupted an interview to call out other guests who were making homophobic jokes at one point, so he's pretty politically based too.

More than that though, it's been kinda interesting seeing how his worldview has changed (not like it's hard to see when he describes Touhou and its setting as an extension of his own worldview) over the years; There's a sort of pessimism about the current and future state of the world in earlier works, while more recent works maintain a similar political worldview while having a bit more optimism (likely a consequence of shifting the focus to themes of chuunibyou).

He also has some pretty interesting takes on game design and gaming in general, so I really like reading interviews where he discusses his thoughts on those topics.

I read he is a fan of Chinese culture (ancient/traditional to be exact, don’t confuse it when modern Chinese bullshit, which Chinese like me despise)

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

I read he is a fan of Chinese culture (ancient/traditional to be exact, don’t confuse it when modern Chinese bullshit, which Chinese like me despise)

Yeah! Even one of the most recent characters to be added to the series also has a Chinese origin. Yuuma Toutetsu is based on Chinese creature called Taotie and if i remember right lunar capital is also themed around Chinese culture.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Saw that fairies were presented as an example in immortality page but was removed due to lack of evidence, I think this is where touhou wiki got it from (I didn't see any mentioning of fairy immortality in recent crt's so Im guessing this wasn't found).

Yeah, couldn't find any direct evidence of reliant immortality, just types 3 and 4. Your image seems to be broken btw.

I read he is a fan of Chinese culture (ancient/traditional to be exact, don’t confuse it when modern Chinese bullshit, which Chinese like me despise)

Mhm, he's even visited mainland China at least once for an interview.

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Your image seems to be broken btw.

Ughghgg forgot to mention I have the mind of a 93 year old when it comes to using internet.
Image was suposed to show a dialog between cirno and eiki from POFV

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Ughghgg forgot to mention I have the mind of a 93 year old when it comes to using internet.
Image was suposed to show a dialog between cirno and eiki from POFV

Hm, were you referring to this?

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Hm, were you referring to this?

Yup!

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Mhm, he's even visited mainland China at least once for an interview.

I know. I read it once.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yup!

Hmm, I can kinda see the logic here I think. My main issue is that it doesn't really imply that fairies will live indefinitely so long as they have "the power of nature", just that losing it kills them (kinda like how humans need, food, water, and air to remain alive, but that doesn't make us immortal, I guess).

It... reads more like a weakness than anything, but I think it could work if there's more evidence.

 

[AdamHkureiJanitor]

Hmm, I can kinda see the logic here I think. My main issue is that it doesn't really imply that fairies will live indefinitely so long as they have "the power of nature", just that losing it kills them (kinda like how humans need, food, water, and air to remain alive, but that doesn't make us immortal, I guess).

It... reads more like a weakness than anything, but I think it could work if there's more evidence.

Maybe if we equalize nature and impurity I can see it happening, like how fairies were fine on the moon (but tbh junko purifying them could be an excuse).

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yeah, maybe. I'll keep it mind when I get to LoLK.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Hi! I just spawned!

My reason to exist here is mainly to ask questions about 2hu and presumably be annoying...

I don't think ill be debating too much (cuz I lack them English skillz) but I will try to post what I think could either disprove or support the debate in question. I don't have much knowledge about VSB and its standards but eh.. if my vote counts I will help you make touhou project as accurate as possible in this wiki! I have red some important CRT's regarding touhou and lemme tell ya that sh** was painful and that is most of what I know.

Just post many memes and shitpost about Touhou and you're good lel

 

[Deidalius]

Yeah he's a pretty cool dude. Most manga artists he's worked with do mention how nice he is (iirc Ginmokusei mentioned that he was very kind and understanding when she had to quit CDS due to her disability). He interrupted an interview to call out other guests who were making homophobic jokes at one point, so he's pretty politically based too.

More than that though, it's been kinda interesting seeing how his worldview has changed (not like it's hard to see when he describes Touhou and its setting as an extension of his own worldview) over the years; There's a sort of pessimism about the current and future state of the world in earlier works, while more recent works maintain a similar political worldview while having a bit more optimism (likely a consequence of shifting the focus to themes of chuunibyou).

He also has some pretty interesting takes on game design and gaming in general, so I really like reading interviews where he discusses his thoughts on those topics.

Is that even true though? I've heard that several times and when I tried to learn more about it I didn't find anything that proves he did that, only a Tumblr post and a Twitter tweet saying he did that with little evidence, which ain't exactly the most reliable sources for anything since internet people lie a lot. Just look at all the people who spread the "No one in Gensokyo is gay" hoax.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The source is actually an interview he did years ago, mainly talking about his days at Taito and the development of EoSD. Same place the anecdote of his first date with his wife being at a bar comes from. You can read a TL;DR here, although I'm not sure if the original interview is still accessible (iirc the Chinese wiki has some of the NKH interviews saved).

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Do you guys think that we'll get a new installment where Reimu and co. get their revenge on Yachie and her patriachs and finally freed the human spirits in Animal Realm?

 

[Deidalius]

Do you guys think that we'll get a new installment where Reimu and co. get their revenge on Yachie and her patriachs and finally freed the human spirits in Animal Realm?

That reminds me, I should really try to re-learn more about the plot of the later games. I played them without paying attention to the story. All I know is gang wars, gang wars, gang wars, there are like 3 factions and they give cool powers, more gang wars, more gang wars, gang wars.

And to answer your question. I don't know. I haven't kepted up with the lore. I just keepted up with the manga that are being updated.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Do you guys think that we'll get a new installment where Reimu and co. get their revenge on Yachie and her patriachs and finally freed the human spirits in Animal Realm?

Nah

They've always seemed very detached from that whole conflict, and the entire point of WBaWC was to have the protagonists just act as vehicles to explore a broader narrative they had nothing to do with (hence the possession aspect of that game). I would like to see the Animal Realm conflict explored in other ways, though.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Nah

They've always seemed very detached from that whole conflict, and the entire point of WBaWC was to have the protagonists just act as vehicles to explore a broader narrative they had nothing to do with (hence the possession aspect of that game)

Right, but considering on the current state on the realm with the human spirits and the way they have been tricked, they might have to do something with it, especially if one of the patriach family (likely Yachie or the last Patriach Family Leader, Yuuma is too busy running the business with her old hell blood pool) followed what Saki failed to do: invading the surface world, then again it's because Saki was hot-headed to invaded the surface world lel
I dunno, maybe Keiki asked the alliance without the animal spirits interruption with more detail on it

Seeing Yachie the thot dragon girl get her a** beaten after what she did will be somehow satisfying lel

I would like to see the Animal Realm conflict explored in other ways, though.

Yeah, right now only one Patriach Family that need to be shown, and with how chaotic the relationship between the Leaders (with Saki and Yachie relationship being the least bad to anything that has a relationship with Yuuma will guarranted have the worst relationship), i'm interested what her relationship will be

And also we yet need to see more of the interaction with Saki and Miko, imagine Saki and Miko have an alliance that will make Keiga family more stronger in position
I also bet that each of Patriach Families has a commanders/hand man (or in this case, hand woman?) Of it and serve each of the Leaders of it