Tier High 6-A The Battle of the Beast Tournament (2023): Tatsumaki vs Yami Ichika

[ZillertheBucko]

I do not disagree with the ratings, because the ratings say she massively upscales from her value, which is true. You are being blatantly ignorant if you say that upscaling is never allowed to overcome AP gaps when in vs threads.
In fact the entire reason we don’t just upscale Jotaro’s rating on his profile is that making him baseline 8-B with no upscale would actually depict him as weaker than high 8-C+ with his massive scaling chain, and he literally is treated as above baseline 8-B in any vs thread
Again, you have no idea what you are talking about because you don’t understand the wiki’s system of how upscaling works. Despite trying to pull the “wiki rules” card you do not actually have any rules to back you up.

 

[Coomandar]

Tatsumaki doesn't have Danmaku.


Not sure what's up with OPM goons and calling like 5 attacks Danmaku lol.

she does have danmaku, she literally does
it against boros ship when stopped all bullets at once.

 

[Nierre]

On Jotaro's profile it just says he upscales alot from high 8-C though

Yeah because it was accepted in a revision because he was farr above the value.

I'm not saying that Tatsumaki doesn't scale far above her value - but if you want her to upscale to the next tier (or what have you) you absolutely need to make a revision thread. Until then it's unquantifiable

 

[Coomandar]

Tatsumaki has never used that in character even while actively trying to kill her opponents.

what the?????? IF it’s needed, she will use. SIMPLY, she already shown durability negation, so you cant just ignore it.
Also, she never used it before bc never was necessary, also, psykorochi has resistance to telekinesis.

 

[Nierre]

Bro we aren't saying she isn't over 2.2 times orochi we are Just saying atm going by profiles it isn't accepted

^

 

[TauanVictor]

Now, what I'm trying to understand is how Tats is not stomped to oblivion here. Tats is at a disadvantage in LS and AP, and Ichika can just use amp stats or surround her with Zetten barriers that Tats can't do anything about.

This is because Ichika has an absolute advantage in combat intelligence and can pressure Tats with Gravity Manip + her superior LS.

 

[Kachon123]

she does have danmaku, she literally does
it against boros ship when stopped all bullets at once.

There's also this

 

[Coomandar]

Passive Aura was used told raise Tats durability from unknown to being able to take some damage from psycho’s beam. It only enhances her durability not block attacks cuz she still got damaged by it

no. the passive aura only protected her skin, not her dress, thats why her dress was burnt and her skin was harmless.
She didnt get damage any damage at all

 

[CIC_SHARK]

Yeah because it was accepted in a revision because he was farr above the value.

I'm not saying that Tatsumaki doesn't scale far above her value - but if you want her to upscale to the next tier (or what have you) you absolutely need to make a revision thread. Until then it's unquantifiable

Jotaro < DIO < Angry Jotaro (blowing holes in his body) < Stronger DIO < Angrier Jotaro (Splits this Dio into multiple pieces with one punch)

This is enough to get Jotaro to basically 8-B from upscaling from what I've seen (might have forgotten some other stuff)


Charging up Orochi < Actually attacking Orochi < Saitama liquefying him < Psykorochi thinking she can beat Saitama based on that < Tatsumaki mutilating her on a cellular level

I think at the very least the AP gap should be ignored based on this tbh

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I have a hard time grasping how a sentient human being can see tatsumaki turning someone who is already vastly stronger than or orochi into literal meat paste and say “there’s no way she’s 2 times stronger than him”
The incompetence is insane in this one

 

[TauanVictor]

she does have danmaku, she literally does

You know, make a CRT to add Danmaku to Tats' profile.

 

[Coomandar]

Now, what I'm trying to understand is how Tats is not stomped to oblivion here. Tats is at a disadvantage in LS and AP, and Ichika can just use amp stats or surround her with Zetten barriers that Tats can't do anything about.

This is because Ichika has an absolute advantage in combat intelligence and can pressure Tats with Gravity Manip + her superior LS.

gravity manipulation which tatsumaki has a ridiculous resistance
tatsumaki is stronger, the woman would get one shotted before even having the chance to amp herself, is action vs thoughts

 

[RandomGuy2345]

Tatsumaki FRA

 

[Coomandar]

You know, make a CRT to add Danmaku to Tats' profile.

uh, this is ridiculous.
she can pick up many targets at once and this is what matters
SHE HAVES DANMAKU

 

[Kachon123]

Psykorochi thinking she can beat Saitama based on that < Tatsumaki mutilating her on a cellular level

It's actually

Psykorochi thinking she can beat Saitama based on that < Casual Tatsumaki < Tatsumaki mutilating her on a cellular level

 

[Nierre]

Tbh Ziller I think you're just confused with how the wiki works. This isn't the first time this has happened with you in particular so I'm not going to entertain this anymore. The Jotaro and Tatsumaki situation is VASTLY different.

Jotaro was bumped up TO THE NEXT TIER, and it was accepted in that revision thread by Staff.

You want Tatsumaki to officially (in matches and in profile[?]) to randomly scale at least 2.2x than her value because of her upscaling value despite it not being how it works on the wiki. You can only upscale to the next tier - not give a random at least number. Tatsumaki scales "At least" for that reason.

Jotaro < DIO < Angry Jotaro (blowing holes in his body) < Stronger DIO < Angrier Jotaro (Splits this Dio into multiple pieces with one punch)

This is enough to get Jotaro to basically 8-B from upscaling from what I've seen (might have forgotten some other stuff)


Charging up Orochi < Actually attacking Orochi < Saitama liquefying him < Psykorochi thinking she can beat Saitama based on that < Tatsumaki mutilating her on a cellular level

I think at the very least the AP gap should be ignored based on this tbh

Idek what Ichika's scaling chain is tbh. I heard she does but I'm not certain.

I'm not saying that Tatsumaki can't be close to Ichika - in fact 2.2x gap isn't even that big of a gap in verse matches. I'm saying that Tats wincon via upscaling isn't valid because upscaling can only be used to close the gap not increase the gap in reverse.

Ichika should be able to break through her TK because they are relative but Ichika AT LEAST has an LS and AP advantage anyhow.

Regardless I'm pretty sure Ichika's LS is far greater than Tats lol like I think someone said at least 13x but I'm not certain on that. If that's the case than Tats' TK is literally negligible in this match because Ichika will break through it like candy.

 

[TauanVictor]

uh, this is ridiculous.
she can pick up many targets at once and this is what matters
SHE HAVES DANMAKU

As long as it's not in the profile, she doesn't have it. That's how VsB works lol.

gravity manipulation which tatsumaki has a ridiculous resistance

What about the higher LS?

 

[Nierre]

Regardless I'm pretty sure Ichika's LS is far greater than Tats lol like I think someone said at least 13x but I'm not certain on that. If that's the case than Tats' TK is literally negligible in this match because Ichika will break through it like candy.

EDIT: nvm it was 1.3 not 13.

 

[Kachon123]

What about the higher LS?

The 1.3x advantage?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

no. the passive aura only protected her skin, not her dress, thats why her dress was burnt and her skin was harmless.
She didnt get damage any damage at all

False. It raises her durability which isn’t multi continental TO multicontinental. That’s why she still took damage to her skin and clothes. Yes the damage is visible on the skin.

 

[CIC_SHARK]

Nierre can you explain the difference between Jotaro's situation and Tatsumaki's?


I'll take back my vote since I'm not too confident in voting Ichika but in order to not "Npc FRA train" I'll wait for Arnold/Black Clover supporters to respond

 

[Arnoldstone18]

EDIT: nvm it was 1.3 not 13.

no it’s a 2.76x advantage. I corrected it later in this thread

 

[Coomandar]

As long as it's not in the profile, she doesn't have it. That's how VsB works lol.

What about the higher LS?

she does have it, no matter what you say lol
LS has nothing to do with gravity manipulation, sorry

 

[Kachon123]

no it’s a 2.76x advantage

As long as it's not in the profile, she doesn't have it. That's how VsB works lol.

I corrected it later in the crt.

Link?

 

[TauanVictor]

The 1.3x advantage?

Yes, because that would kind of make Tats' best advantage here a lot less effective. All the arguments for Tats here were TK and LS.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

take back my vote since I'm not too confident in voting Ichika but in order to not "Npc FRA train" I'll wait for Arnold/Black Clover supporters to respond

That’s what they want. They want to gaslight you into thinking retracting your vote and they succeeded in doing so…

 

[chosen]

Nierre can you explain the difference between Jotaro's situation and Tatsumaki's?


I'll take back my vote since I'm not too confident in voting Ichika but in order to not "Npc FRA train" I'll wait for Arnold/Black Clover supporters to respond

Jotaro had a upscaling revision thread which was accepted, tatsumaki didn't
Everything needs a revision before being added/changed here

 

[Coomandar]

just because isnt listed doesnt mean she cant do, and this talking about something that she did many times in the manga
are you just trying to ignore her power?

 

[CIC_SHARK]

That’s what they want. They want to gaslight you into thinking retracting your vote and they succeeded in doing so…

It's not that deep

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Tbh Ziller I think you're just confused with how the wiki works. This isn't the first time this has happened with you in particular so I'm not going to entertain this anymore. The Jotaro and Tatsumaki situation is VASTLY different.

Jotaro was bumped up TO THE NEXT TIER, and it was accepted in that revision thread by Staff.

You want Tatsumaki to officially (in matches and in profile[?]) to randomly scale at least 2.2x than her value because of her upscaling value despite it not being how it works on the wiki. You can only upscale to the next tier - not give a random at least number. Tatsumaki scales "At least" for that reason.

Idek what Ichika's scaling chain is tbh. I heard she does but I'm not certain.

I'm not saying that Tatsumaki can't be close to Ichika - in fact 2.2x gap isn't even that big of a gap in verse matches. I'm saying that Tats wincon via upscaling isn't valid because upscaling can only be used to close the gap not increase the gap in reverse.

Ichika should be able to break through her TK because they are relative but Ichika AT LEAST has an LS and AP advantage anyhow.

Regardless I'm pretty sure Ichika's LS is far greater than Tats lol like I think someone said at least 13x but I'm not certain on that. If that's the case than Tats' TK is literally negligible in this match because Ichika will break through it like candy.

Jotaro is high 8-C, read the profiles
you are the confused one here, you literally have no ******* idea what you’re talking about.
It is extremely common practice to create matches and use a character’s upscale chain to disregard or overcome AP gaps, this happens literally all the time. You are denying reality just to wank that tiny 2.2x to oblivion by saying she is still stronger than someone who upscales absolute dimensions above a value that’s only 2.2 times lower

 

[CIC_SHARK]

Jotaro had a upscaling revision thread which was accepted, tatsumaki didn't
Everything needs a revision before being added/changed here

Fair enough, can I see the thread, I'll try and gather evidence and make one in the same style as it then since I think the situations are basically the same

 

[Nierre]

I already have.

Essentially you can't give an arbitrary value to upscale unless it's to the next tier.

Jotaro was upscaled to the next tier due to a CRT which was accepted by Staff due to an abundance of chains.

Tatsumaki isn't being argued to upscale to the next tier here - but instead to a random value which isn't allowed. All it can do is close the gap in a match. Especially without a CRT.


I remember I had asked KT (I believe) if I was allowed to upscale a character from 8-C to 8-C+ due to upscaling chains and he said no because we are only allowed to upscale to the next tier if the scaling chain makes it very obvious that they scale FAR FAR above said value. If you plan on upscaling Tats to the next tier then you'd have to make a CRT, also that'd make this match invalid because Tats would be disqualified from this tourney because of the AP limit

 

[chosen]

Fair enough, can I see the thread, I'll try and gather evidence and make one in the same style as it then since I think the situations are basically the same

I will try to find it

 

[Nierre]

Jotaro is high 8-C, read the profiles
you are the confused one here, you literally have no ******* idea what you’re talking about.
It is extremely common practice to create matches and use a character’s upscale chain to disregard or overcome AP gaps, this happens literally all the time. You are denying reality just to wank that tiny 2.2x to oblivion by saying she is still stronger than someone who upscales absolute dimensions above a value that’s only 2.2 times lower

It closes the gap to make them relative, it doesn't reverse the gap.

 

[Nierre]

Also watch your tone and language I don't know why you're getting so heated

 

[Nierre]

no it’s a 2.76x advantage. I corrected it later in this thread

Oh alright

 

[LordGinSama]

what the?????? IF it’s needed, she will use. SIMPLY, she already shown durability negation, so you cant just ignore it.

Again, that's out of character as **** for her to do, even while bloodlusted and actively trying to kill people she's never done anything like targeting organs. Even against the guy who was messing with her sister just the other chapter, so no.



It isn't in character for her to use and she's never used it. And yes, we do in fact ignore OOC behavior.

Also, she never used it before bc never was necessary, also, psykorochi has resistance to telekinesis.

She doesn't have resistance to TK, that's something you made up.

she does have danmaku, she literally does

She doesn't, she literally doesn't.

it against boros ship when stopped all bullets at once.

That's not how Danmaku works, again she doesn't have Danmaku so quit making shit up and use what's on the profile.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

I already have.

Essentially you can't give an arbitrary value to upscale unless it's to the next tier.

Jotaro was upscaled to the next tier due to a CRT which was accepted by Staff due to an abundance of chains.

Tatsumaki isn't being argued to upscale to the next tier here - but instead to a random value which isn't allowed. All it can do is close the gap in a match. Especially without a CRT.


I remember I had asked KT (I believe) if I was allowed to upscale a character from 8-C to 8-C+ due to upscaling chains and he said no because we are only allowed to upscale to the next tier if the scaling chain makes it very obvious that they scale FAR FAR above said value. If you plan on upscaling Tats to the next tier then you'd have to make a CRT, also that'd make this match invalid because Tats would be disqualified from this tourney because of the AP limit

It’s not arguing that she scales to a random value, it’s just that she is within some range of power far beyond what it listed. Luckily for us, Ant and the staff have left it up to common sense to determine in vs matches what range of power a character’s upscale value should logically put them in, even if it’s only an estimation. Unfortunately, it’s left up to common sense, meaning that there is no saving the people who believe that Tatsumaki’s scaling chain including blowing up orochi and turning someone on that level into blood paste doesn’t warrant her being beyond the range of someone only 2 times stronger than orochi’s value.

 

[TauanVictor]

just because isnt listed doesnt mean she cant do, and this talking about something that she did many times in the manga
are you just trying to ignore her power?

At this point, you're just acting like a spoiled child. If you disagree, make a CRT. We can't use things that aren't in the profiles.

 

[LordGinSama]

There's also this

Yeah still not Danmaku. That's just a minor volley of attacks.