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Tier 2 characters CRT

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Ultima_Reality said:
By the way, since a bunch of people both here and outside of the wiki expressed some confusion as to what exactly this thread's proposal is, I'll say this just for clarity's sake: We are not changing the actual definition of Low 2-C, just applying some stricter standards so characters have to meet the actual requirement to qualify for it, that being destroying all of spacetime, and thus the entire universe across past, present and future. So, if you destroy the universe, but there is no evidence that it was destroyed across past and future, then you are not Low 2-C.

3-A will remain unchanged, too, since the original post was written under the idea that you can destroy spacetime at a single point in time, which is just completely wrong and born from a misdirection: A single point in time isn't 4-D, it's a 3-dimensional cross-section of the larger 4-dimensional structure of spacetime, basically a static snapshot of the universe at a single point of no time. Likewise, destroying space and matter would cause time to stop existing, yes, but this would be more of a chain reaction than an actual feat: Low 2-C is explicitly about directly destroying the spacetime continuum.
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So should a separate thread be made to start listing off the verses affected by it? similarly to what happened with Immeasurable speed?
 
Wouldn't that mean that a true Low 2-C and above produces a retroactive effect, such alterations of memories (assuming there are survivors)?

Also, by destroying the present. destroys the future by default, so it may sound redundant.
 
This is less of a sitewide revision and more a call for action honestly; nothing is being changed about the definition of low 2-C and these standards have already been employed elsewhere. This is a pretty straightforward issue or at least an issue which should/ is straightforward to staff and I feel like the best thing to do (at least after more staff members have had an input, that is) is to list verses which should be affected by this instead of getting bogged down by confusion involving the initial phrasing of this thread (no low 3-A bollocks really). Or to just make a new thread that is less messy.
 
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Antoniofer said:
Wouldn't that mean that a true Low 2-C and above produces a retroactive effect, such alterations of memories (assuming there are survivors)?

Also, by destroying the present. destroys the future by default, so it may sound redundant.
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Technically, destroying the present would result in the future being a vacuum.
 
To add on to Ultima's post, this proposal would also mean that significantly affecting multiple universes, even ones which we know are spatio-temporally separate, wouldn't automatically be what we would call multiversal anymore. It would, as with Low 2-C, require context. However, I can see people getting Interdimensional Range based on affecting the space of multiple different space-time continua.

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Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
What about if you create a space-time continuum with past, present, and future?
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If someone creates a spatio-temporally independent universe with its own history, that would still be a Low 2-C feat, of course. This is also why Big Bang feats (wherein the Big Bang is represented as an expansion of space-time, not as an explosion) would still qualify for Low 2-C in my opinion, since such feats literally involve the genesis of space and time as constructs to begin with.

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Tago238 said:
This is less of a sitewide revision and more a call for action honestly; nothing is being changed about the definition of low 2-C and these standards have already been employed elsewhere. This is a pretty straightforward issue or at least an issue which should/ is straightforward to staff and I feel like the best thing to do (at least after more staff members have had an input, that is) is to list verses which should be affected by this.
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I can name four potential suspects right off the bat:
  • Dragon Ball (specifically Super, I think Heroes and Xenoverse should be fine)
  • Bleach
  • Ben 10
  • Gravity Falls
These four verses ought to be reviewed to determine if their tier 2 ratings are valid or not. We should preferably focus on one at a time, so I think the big guys (Dragon Ball and Bleach) ought to be handled first.
 
Out of curiosity, if someone destroys the present and the past, but not the future (or vice-versa really), would it still not be Low 2-C?
 
I don't see how one destroy the present without destroying the future, not without specific abilities such King Crimson.
 
KingPin0422 said:
If someone creates a spatio-temporally independent universe with its own history, that would still be a Low 2-C feat, of course. This is also why Big Bang feats (wherein the Big Bang is represented as an expansion of space-time, not as an explosion) would still qualify for Low 2-C in my opinion, since such feats literally involve the genesis of space and time as constructs to begin with.
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What if you defeat someone who created and sustained their own space-time?
 
KingPin0422 said:
To add on to Ultima's post, this proposal would also mean that significantly affecting multiple universes, even ones which we know are spatio-temporally separate, wouldn't automatically be what we would call multiversal anymore. It would, as with Low 2-C, require context. However, I can see people getting Interdimensional Range based on affecting the space of multiple different space-time continua.

-----

If someone creates a spatio-temporally independent universe with its own history, that would still be a Low 2-C feat, of course. This is also why Big Bang feats (wherein the Big Bang is represented as an expansion of space-time, not as an explosion) would still qualify for Low 2-C in my opinion, since such feats literally involve the genesis of space and time as constructs to begin with.

-----

I can name four potential suspects right off the bat:
  • Dragon Ball (specifically Super, I think Heroes and Xenoverse should be fine)
  • Bleach
  • Ben 10
  • Gravity Falls
These four verses ought to be reviewed to determine if their tier 2 ratings are valid or not. We should preferably focus on one at a time, so I think the big guys (Dragon Ball and Bleach) ought to be handled first.
Click to expand...
I don't think it makes much sense here, but I don't think Bleach will be affected for certain reasons because of reio's creativity and yhwach literally doing the opposite
 
Antoniofer said:
Also, by destroying the present. destroys the future by default, so it may sound redundant
Click to expand...
Chain reactions are not feats, hence why destroying all of matter isn't Low 2-C even though spacetime would cease to exist alongside it as per General Relativity. Refer to what I said above, in that regard.

CrimsonStarFallen said:
Out of curiosity, if someone destroys the present and the past, but not the future (or vice-versa really), would it still not be Low 2-C?
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I am actually planning to make a thread regarding that and similar feats, so, ask afterwards, I suppose.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
What if you defeat someone who created and sustained their own space-time?
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Our standards on structure sustenance feats have been revised. Refer to this page for more information.

As for the creation part, it depends on if the character can consistently do Low 2-C stuff or if we can reason that they are able to do so. Creating a universe is meaningless if you can be damaged and defeated by, say, 9-B attacks.
 
Ultima_Reality said:
Chain reactions are not feats, hence why destroying all of matter isn't Low 2-C even though spacetime would cease to exist alongside it as per General Relativity. Refer to what I said above, in that regard.
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Huh? Destroying all the matter won’t cause a chain reaction to begin with. Destroying the space would because it’s relative with time.
 
3-A, it seems that may be the case since no further levels of time are involved.
 
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Ultima_Reality said:
I am actually planning to make a thread regarding that and similar feats, so, ask afterwards, I suppose.
Click to expand...
Hoh2.png
 
Suppose you have a character who destroys ONLY the PRESENT of the entirety of a 2-A structure.

Is this:
1) 3-A with like 2-A range or something?
2) low 2-C for destroying infinite snapshots or....???

I understand the uni+ part, but how do you quantify these other feats?
 
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Hasty12345 said:
Suppose you have a character who destroying ONLY the PRESENT of the entirety of a 2-A structure.

if this:
1) 3-A with like 2-A range or something?
2) low 2-C for destroying infinite snapshots or....???

I understand the uni+ part, but how do you quantify these other feats?
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something i'd like to know as well seeing as this will be affecting how the tiering works moving forward.
 
So I can understand what Medeus is saying if that's in fact what he means.
 
Yeah so unless the Tiering System page updates the justification, I disagree.

Tier 2: Multiversal​

2-C: Low Multiverse level​

This tier is broken into the following sub-tiers:

Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums of a universal scale. However, it can be more generally fulfilled by any 4-dimensional space that is either:

A) Equivalent to a large extra dimensional space. That is, a higher-dimensional "bulk" space which embeds lower-dimensional ones (Such as our universe) as subsets of itself, whose dimensions are not microscopic / compactified.

B) Portrayed as completely transcending lower-dimensional objects and spaces in the setting of a given work of fiction.

2-C | Low Multiverse level: Characters who can significantly affect[1], create and/or destroy small multiverses which can be comprised of several separate space-time continuums ranging anywhere from two to a thousand, or equivalents.

2-B: Multiverse level​

Characters who can significantly affect[1], create and/or destroy larger multiverses which comprise from 1001 to any higher finite amount of separate space-time continuums.

2-A: Multiverse level+​

Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying a countably infinite number of space-time continuums.
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I don't see the word timeline, past, present, future, none of that in the current justification.

It definitely needs to be updated, then I'll agree.
 
KingTempest said:
Yeah so unless the Tiering System page updates the justification, I disagree.



I don't see the word timeline, past, present, future, none of that in the current justification.

It definitely needs to be updated, then I'll agree.
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perhaps the intention was for "spacetime continuum" to be the universe in it's entirety (i.e including its past, present and future).

But I agree that needs to be clarified with a BIG FOOTNOTE, or even defined prior to using the word "spacetime continuum" so you read the section with the intended interpretation.
 
Low 2-C is effectively destroying uncountably infinite snapshots of the spatial universe, so, yeah, it isn't the same thing as 3-A anyway.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Wait, why is a spacetime continuum needs to be infinite if it has a beginning (Big Bang), and multiple franchises (DC, Doctor Who) acknowledge they have an end?
 
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