The Great upgrade a level of wizards

[Gendolfgg1]

I don't really think we can calc this, as we don't know enough about the specifics. The feat is too ambiguous, which was really the point I was trying to make in my last response.

Then we need to discuss this feat with a lot of people and supporters.

I agree on this. We've also seen Grindelwald cover Paris in banners, for example.

Yes, this is also a very good feat.

We could potentially add something like "The verse generally ranges from Wall level to Large Building level, though there have been instances of accidental or unconventional use of magic reaching [whatever tier Alderton's feat is] or even [whatever tier Innocenti's feat is]." to the Wizarding World verse page. I would be fine with that. However, I think it's quite ambiguous how exactly this feat was achieved, so I don't think it's a good idea to scale it to wizards' attack potency in general.

I think you are more fair in this matter. But still, we need to discuss in more detail the feat of Credence from the script in order to be sure that the basic level of wizards should not be updated.

This is a movie only feat, and we have seen more impressive feats by Voldemort. I don't really see how you get the impression that they were holding back earlier.

Well, in general, the Avada Kedavra spell and the Expertliarmus, which wizards use to destroy the ceiling, do not represent any destructive force. These are spells on Hax, so they can't, and shouldn't, cause much physical damage. But nevertheless, as we have seen, they do. Moreover, earlier Voldemort, with the help of a Killing spell, could damage a piece of the statue at most, but certainly not destroy the ceiling. Therefore, I think that at this moment Harry specifically strengthened the spell to escape.

These are more convincing, but don't you think this could be more related to the nature of these spells? For example, you can't control how much you're going to body-bind someone with Petrificus Totalus, which seems to be much more similar to the Dancing Feet spell (if we're still discussing that) than fire spells like these.

In my opinion, when they cast this spell on Neville, he could speak, and not just freeze in place. And when Draco imposed Petrificus Totalus on Harry, he could not speak in principle and use non-verbal magic. And, again, a good example with Expelliarmus. Once it was described as a powerful bright lightning that pushes away not only the magic wand, but also the wizard in principle (the moment when Snape shot this spell at Lockhart). And it is usually described as an invisible spell that throws the wand away from the wizard. In Harry's case, it looks like a ray of red light that destroys the ceiling.

An obscurus is magic that has gotten completely out of control because the wizard/witch was trying to suppress it. It's not a spell in the traditional sense, it is pure magic focused only on destruction. Even Grindelwald seems to think that Credence has a better chance at overwhelming and killing Dumbledore than he himself has, based purely on Credence's raw destructive power, as he has shown very little skill. Credence is also portrayed as being extraordinarily powerful, even for an obscurial. Everything taken into account, I don't really think we can compare normal magic users with an obscurial, since magic seems to be so much more destructive when out of control.

I'm trying to convey that, in fact, every wizard has the Obscure. It's just that not every wizard hid it, which is why a lot of dark energy accumulated.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

Even Grindelwald seems to think that Credence has a better chance at overwhelming and killing Dumbledore than he himself has, based purely on Credence's raw destructive power, as he has shown very little skill. Credence is also portrayed as being extraordinarily powerful, even for an obscurial. Everything taken into account, I don't really think we can compare normal magic users with an obscurial, since magic seems to be so much more destructive when out of control.

I'm not sure that Grindelwald should be weaker than Credence, because Albus's duel with him is described as the most ambitious and legendary. Moreover, Albus defeated Credence very easily.

 

[Jamesthetaker]

I've thought about your answer, and I think I have a counter argument. If the spells differed in destructive power, then probably one magical energy would overpower the other, as for example in the situation with electricity. But this is not happening. Apparently, magical energy has a kind of physical character of ordinary energy and it does not differ from other energy in any properties. We can see a similar parallel in the real world, because kinetic energy and potential energy are the same energy, but in different forms, but nevertheless, one energy can outweigh the other. For example, the energy of a flying bullet (kinetic energy will be much greater and potential energy can simply be ignored). I think that wizards use publicly available magical energy and, by pronouncing spells (verbally or nonverbally), form a certain splash from this energy, with which they can cause certain outcomes to the material world.

This is an interesting analysis, but it isn't sufficient for UES criteria.

The concept behind scaling HP magic is that magic and physical strength are completely separate entities. Dumbledore can cast an 8-A spell, but he cannot withstand an 8-A attack. He can, however, create an 8-A forcefield to counter the attack. This means that while some spells are scaleable to one another, not all can be equalized for the reasons listed below.

• Limited Energy System: A Limited Energy System is a system in which supernatural or other feats, that are not based on the characters' body strengths, neither scale to physical statistics nor to all other non-physical powers the characters possess. However, certain sets of abilities still scale to each other due to being part of the same system. An example of that might be a character that uses both Chi and Magic to fight, in which case a fireball spell may neither scale to Striking Strength or Durability nor to the strength of Chi blasts that the opponent fires. However, the strength of the fireball spell might still be scaleable to other magic, such as the strength of water spells.

The second reason is that the majority of the spells in HP aren't used for combat. For example, one spell can cause explosions, while another simply disarms the opponent. Of course, there have been instances in which HP characters used non-fatal spells creatively in combat, but the general idea is that each spell is designed for a completely different purpose than simply dueling to death. Scaling an 8-C combustion spell to a spell that has only been used for knocking enemies out non-fatally sounds pretty illogical.

In fact, it wasn't said anywhere that Hagrid was bad at magic. He even practices it outside of school, which hints at his curiosity. I think he's about Newt's level or stronger with extra strength. Nevertheless, he successfully masters non-verbal magic (and only skilled wizards can master it), remember how he lights a fire with his umbrella and creates a pig's tail for Dudley. He also created his own spell, with which he guided boats with freshmen to a set location automatically.

here are the moments when Hagrid fought against other wizards:

1) Hagrid’s door had burst open and by the light flooding out of the cabin they saw him quite clearly, a massive figure roaring and brandishing his fists, surrounded by six people, all of whom, judging by the tiny threads of red light they were casting in his direction, seemed to be attempting to Stun him. “No!” cried Hermione. “My dear!” said Professor Tofty in a scandalized voice. “This is an examination!” But nobody was paying the slightest attention to their star charts anymore: Jets of red light were still flying beside Hagrid’s cabin, yet somehow they seemed to be bouncing off him. He was still upright and still, as far as Harry could see, fighting. Cries and yells echoed across the grounds; a man yelled, “Be reasonable, Hagrid!” and Hagrid roared, “Reasonable be damned, yeh won’ take me like this, Dawlish!”

2) And now he saw the vast outline of Hagrid, illuminated by the light of the crescent moon revealed suddenly behind clouds; the blond Death Eater was aiming curse after curse at the gamekeeper; but Hagrid’s immense strength and the toughened skin he had inherited from his giantess mother seemed to be protecting him.

3) “How do we get out?” yelled Ron over all the screaming, but before either Harry or Hermione could answer they were bowled aside: Hagrid had come thundering down the stairs, brandishing his flowery pink umbrella.“Don’t hurt ’em, don’t hurt ’em!” he yelled. “HAGRID, NO!” Harry forgot everything else: He sprinted out from under the Cloak, running bent double to avoid the curses illuminating the whole hall. “HAGRID, COME BACK!” But he was not even halfway to Hagrid when he saw it happen: Hagrid vanished amongst the spiders, and with a great scurrying, a foul swarming movement, they retreated under the onslaught of spells, Hagrid buried in their midst.

The second one pretty much confirmed my argument that Hargrid's physical superiority stems from his half-giant status and has nothing to do with magic enhancing his strength. My original question was whether increasing one magic would increase their physical stats, and Hagrid does not appear to be the case here.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

But we've seen his destructive raw power interact with non obscurial wizards. Dumbledore was able to block and repel credences rage attack, Gunnar was able to block credence's rage attack twice with a single shield before he disapparated while newts shield was effortlessly teared away by credence.

I like to think of it this way; just because you have a shield that can block bullets, that doesn't mean that you can shoot someone even though you don't have a gun. Similarly, even though Dumbledore can block Credence's attacks, he can't use the same attack because he doesn't have an obscurus. Thus, I don't think we can scale Dumbledore's attack potency to Credence's, we can only scale the durability of Dumbledore's shields to Credence's attack potency.

And the way i see it and the hp wiki does, obscurus are only as powerful as the obscurials magical potential is. It's just that magical power lvl they were born with being displayed as a aggressive and destructive way due to the obscurus's nature instead of being controlled and channeled through spells. I don't see why obscurus's shouldn't be compared to other wizards just because it's out of control and is in a destructive style.

I don't think obscurials should be compared to other wizards and witches in attack potency, as they utilise attacks that aren't available to the rest of the wizarding world.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

I like to think of it this way; just because you have a shield that can block bullets, that doesn't mean that you can shoot someone even though you don't have a gun. Similarly, even though Dumbledore can block Credence's attacks, he can't use the same attack because he doesn't have an obscurus. Thus, I don't think we can scale Dumbledore's attack potency to Credence's, we can only scale the durability of Dumbledore's shields to Credence's attack potency.

I don't think obscurials should be compared to other wizards and witches in attack potency, as they utilise attacks that aren't available to the rest of the wizarding world.

But shield charms are just as strong as the wizards offensive spell. And dumbledore is not only blocking but overpowering and throwing away credence's attack.

I don't agree with this, just because they utilize their attacks in a kinetic mass form shouldn't mean their power shouldn't be compared to other witches and wizards.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

Even Grindelwald seems to think that Credence has a better chance at overwhelming and killing Dumbledore than he himself has, based purely on Credence's raw destructive power, as he has shown very little skill.

It's actually based on his foresight. He had a vision of an obscurial killing the man he feared the most a.k.a albus dumbledore.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

I like to think of it this way; just because you have a shield that can block bullets, that doesn't mean that you can shoot someone even though you don't have a gun. Similarly, even though Dumbledore can block Credence's attacks, he can't use the same attack because he doesn't have an obscurus. Thus, I don't think we can scale Dumbledore's attack potency to Credence's, we can only scale the durability of Dumbledore's shields to Credence's attack potency.

in my opinion, in my excerpt, which I provided below, there is a great example of how Dumbledore physically overpowers Cridens. That is, he must be stronger than him.
Credence, frustrated, lashes out, lightning fast, and for a moment, he and Dumbledore duel at kinetic speed.
Dumbledore defends easily when Credence fires a VOLLEY of EXPLOSIVE SPELLS, which Dumbledore weathers before he stretches out his hand and hits Credence with a spell that sends him reeling backward, causing a black, kinetic mass to erupt from his body.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

Then we need to discuss this feat with a lot of people and supporters.

My point is that we can't calc it because it's too ambiguous. That won't really change no matter how much we discuss it. I understand that it's annoying, but I don't really think there is anything we can do about it.

Well, in general, the Avada Kedavra spell and the Expertliarmus, which wizards use to destroy the ceiling, do not represent any destructive force. These are spells on Hax, so they can't, and shouldn't, cause much physical damage. But nevertheless, as we have seen, they do. Moreover, earlier Voldemort, with the help of a Killing spell, could damage a piece of the statue at most, but certainly not destroy the ceiling. Therefore, I think that at this moment Harry specifically strengthened the spell to escape.

Voldemort completely destroyed a statue with Avada Kedavra at an earlier occasion, and this has been calced to 9-A. Collapsing that ceiling won't really surpass that, at least not by much.

In my opinion, when they cast this spell on Neville, he could speak, and not just freeze in place.

Neville couldn't speak before he completely broke out of the body-bind, which he only managed because Harry's sacrificial protection stopped Voldemort's spells from working properly.

And, again, a good example with Expelliarmus. Once it was described as a powerful bright lightning that pushes away not only the magic wand, but also the wizard in principle (the moment when Snape shot this spell at Lockhart). And it is usually described as an invisible spell that throws the wand away from the wizard. In Harry's case, it looks like a ray of red light that destroys the ceiling.

I think this has more to do with the descriptions just being inconsistent.

I'm trying to convey that, in fact, every wizard has the Obscure. It's just that not every wizard hid it, which is why a lot of dark energy accumulated.

According to Newt, obscurials developed an obscurus, which means that they didn't have one before.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

It's actually based on his foresight. He had a vision of an obscurial killing the man he feared the most a.k.a albus dumbledore.

Ah, sorry, I forgot. Thanks for reminding me.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

My point is that we can't calc it because it's too ambiguous. That won't really change no matter how much we discuss it. I understand that it's annoying, but I don't really think there is anything we can do about it.

However, if we are going to update the wizard level, then in any case we must take this feat into account, as you indicated in the previous answer.

Voldemort completely destroyed a statue with Avada Kedavra at an earlier occasion, and this has been calced to 9-A. Collapsing that ceiling won't really surpass that, at least not by much.

I know, but it's weird anyway that Expelliarmus is capable of destroying the ceiling.

Neville couldn't speak before he completely broke out of the body-bind, which he only managed because Harry's sacrificial protection stopped Voldemort's spells from working properly.

I'm sure I'll find more evidence to enhance spells that are based on Hax.

I think this has more to do with the descriptions just being inconsistent.

according to this evidence, I still think that wizards somehow influenced this spell to create destructive power with its use, not only taking away the wand.

According to Newt, obscurials developed an obscurus, which means that they didn't have one before.

I know that's true, but I mean, wizards have a reason for Obscure. If Harry hadn't started going to school, most likely he would have become an Obscurus too, because he was bullied by the Dursleys. But this does not mean that it will be stronger than its original version.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

This never happened with harry and voldemort, but according to wand lore, twin wands increases power tenfold if they fight the same enemy. So should we put this in harry and voldemorts profile or no?

 

[Gendolfgg1]

This is an interesting analysis, but it isn't sufficient for UES criteria.

The concept behind scaling HP magic is that magic and physical strength are completely separate entities. Dumbledore can cast an 8-A spell, but he cannot withstand an 8-A attack. He can, however, create an 8-A forcefield to counter the attack. This means that while some spells are scaleable to one another, not all can be equalized for the reasons listed below.

• Limited Energy System: A Limited Energy System is a system in which supernatural or other feats, that are not based on the characters' body strengths, neither scale to physical statistics nor to all other non-physical powers the characters possess. However, certain sets of abilities still scale to each other due to being part of the same system. An example of that might be a character that uses both Chi and Magic to fight, in which case a fireball spell may neither scale to Striking Strength or Durability nor to the strength of Chi blasts that the opponent fires. However, the strength of the fireball spell might still be scaleable to other magic, such as the strength of water spells.

You're being fair. But I noticed a detail to which I provided proof from the script that Dumbledore is successfully fighting with Credence physically, and we know that Credence and Obscure are connected. That is, I think if Credence' magical power is directly proportional to his physical strength, then most likely we can also scale Dumbledore to this value, since he won Credence on pure physical strength:
Credence, frustrated, lashes out, lightning fast, and for a moment, he and Dumbledore duel at kinetic speed.
Dumbledore defends easily when Credence fires a VOLLEY of EXPLOSIVE SPELLS, which Dumbledore weathers before he stretches out his hand and hits Credence with a spell that sends him reeling backward, causing a black, kinetic mass to erupt from his body.

The second reason is that the majority of the spells in HP aren't used for combat. For example, one spell can cause explosions, while another simply disarms the opponent. Of course, there have been instances in which HP characters used non-fatal spells creatively in combat, but the general idea is that each spell is designed for a completely different purpose than simply dueling to death. Scaling an 8-C combustion spell to a spell that has only been used for knocking enemies out non-fatally sounds pretty illogical.

Yes, this is also a kind of oddity, but I have seen many spells that were originally intended as Hax, but nevertheless produce destructive power. For example Expelliarmus

The second one pretty much confirmed my argument that Hargrid's physical superiority stems from his half-giant status and has nothing to do with magic enhancing his strength. My original question was whether increasing one magic would increase their physical stats, and Hagrid does not appear to be the case here.

Yes, there is an indication that he reflects spells with his skin, BUT ALSO because he is physically too strong.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

This never happened with harry and voldemort, but according to wand lore, twin wands increases power tenfold if they fight the same enemy. So should we put this in harry and voldemorts profile or no?

perhaps this would explain why Expelliarmus destroyed the ceiling, but still does not explain why Dumbledore was able to resist Voldemort's spell in the Order of the Phoenix with this spell.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

But shield charms are just as strong as the wizards offensive spell.

I assume you're saying that their attack potency should scale to the durability of their shields. However, Harry Potter is still a limited energy system, which means that this isn't necessarily true. If you mean that their offensive spells must be powerful enough to break through protective enchantments, that can also likely be explained by the use of a combination of undoing the enchantments with counter-spells, using a series of offensive spells where each spell individually wouldn't be able to break through, and using spells specifically dedicated to take down shields.

And dumbledore is not only blocking but overpowering and throwing away credence's attack.

Unless he used offensive spells (not hax-based) to do that, I don't see how it changes anything, really.

I don't agree with this, just because they utilize their attacks in a kinetic mass form shouldn't mean their power shouldn't be compared to other witches and wizards.

As I've said before, Harry Potter is a limited energy system. Normal witches and wizards can't use the same attacks as Credence because they don't have an obscurus. Much like we can't scale for example reducto to the spell Wormtail used to blow up a street, we can't scale their offensive spells to an attack they can't even use. The point is, each spell has its own individual effect and scale, and just because one offensive spell has a certain attack potency, that doesn't mean that other offensive spells have the same attack potency.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

As I've said before, Harry Potter is a limited energy system. Normal witches and wizards can't use the same attacks as Credence because they don't have an obscurus. Much like we can't scale for example reducto to the spell Wormtail used to blow up a street, we can't scale their offensive spells to an attack they can't even use. The point is, each spell has its own individual effect and scale, and just because one offensive spell has a certain attack potency, that doesn't mean that other offensive spells have the same attack potency.

Read my message thread with James, we discussed the spell energy system there. Perhaps you will agree with something, or vice versa.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

I know, but it's weird anyway that Expelliarmus is capable of destroying the ceiling.

Perhaps it was Avada Kedavra that destroyed the ceiling? It would make more sense, as we have seen the spell destroy things on other occasions.

according to this evidence, I still think that wizards somehow influenced this spell to create destructive power with its use, not only taking away the wand.

This isn't really evidence either way.

I know that's true, but I mean, wizards have a reason for Obscure. If Harry hadn't started going to school, most likely he would have become an Obscurus too, because he was bullied by the Dursleys. But this does not mean that it will be stronger than its original version.

It certainly is portrayed as stronger.

Read my message thread with James, we discussed the spell energy system there. Perhaps you will agree with something, or vice versa.

I've already read it. I think James makes most sense.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

Perhaps it was Avada Kedavra that destroyed the ceiling? It would make more sense, as we have seen the spell destroy things on other occasions.

But how could Snape throw Lockhart against the wall if he was using Expelliarmus? In other cases, in my opinion, this spell does not have any destructive power (if we are inclined to believe that it was Avada Kedavra who destroyed the ceiling, although I disagree with this, since spells should divide the power in half when the rays cross)

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

But how could Snape throw Lockhart against the wall if he was using Expelliarmus? In other cases, in my opinion, this spell does not have any destructive power (if we are inclined to believe that it was Avada Kedavra who destroyed the ceiling, although I disagree with this, since spells should divide the power in half when the rays cross)

I don't really have an explanation for this, other than the books being inconsistent in its description of Expelliarmus (both effect and appearance).

 

[LightMoonWizard]

I assume you're saying that their attack potency should scale to the durability of their shields. However, Harry Potter is still a limited energy system, which means that this isn't necessarily true. If you mean that their offensive spells must be powerful enough to break through protective enchantments, that can also likely be explained by the use of a combination of undoing the enchantments with counter-spells, using a series of offensive spells where each spell individually wouldn't be able to break through, and using spells specifically dedicated to take down shields.

Unless he used offensive spells (not hax-based) to do that, I don't see how it changes anything, really.

As I've said before, Harry Potter is a limited energy system. Normal witches and wizards can't use the same attacks as Credence because they don't have an obscurus. Much like we can't scale for example reducto to the spell Wormtail used to blow up a street, we can't scale their offensive spells to an attack they can't even use. The point is, each spell has its own individual effect and scale, and just because one offensive spell has a certain attack potency, that doesn't mean that other offensive spells have the same attack potency.

Yes, because if a wizards masters a spell, it would be on the same lvl as other spells they mastered unless there's some unique context that says otherwise. And i have said before i think hp magic is non-physical energy system. Shield charms aren't undone by counter spells, enchantments like disillusionment are undone by counter spells. And most of times, shield charms are destroyed by brute force.

He brute forced an attack away by swinging his arm. And dispersed the other(not sure if this is hax based or not).

They can't attack with an obscurus and scar people to death or smash into others by transforming in to a kinetic mass, but they can cause similar earthquake attacks(kama does it agaisnt aurors in fb3) and cast explosive spells. Like i said, i think hp magic is non physical energy system, so i argue we can scale non hax spells to each other in general and can scale offensive scales spells by scaling them off shield spells. Wormtail didn't display his reducto so we can't just say it doesn't scale to his explosive spell. I think they would have the same or near equal attack potency unless it's a amped version of the spells like "duo" or "maxima".

 

[Gendolfgg1]

I don't really have an explanation for this, other than the books being inconsistent in its description of Expelliarmus (both effect and appearance).

But this discrepancy happens not only with this spell, but also with the Reducto. Different wizards, with different levels of physical strength, use these spells in different ways. For example, the younger Harry was unable to blow up the vines with this spell, and Ginny was able to create a powerful explosion and at least smash the statue into splinters. I think that in the near future I will be able to find even more evidence that wizards are able to control the destructive power of spells in proportion to their physical strength and endurance.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

But this discrepancy happens not only with this spell, but also with the Reducto. Different wizards, with different levels of physical strength, use these spells in different ways. For example, the younger Harry was unable to blow up the vines with this spell, and Ginny was able to create a powerful explosion and at least smash the statue into splinters. I think that in the near future I will be able to find even more evidence that wizards are able to control the destructive power of spells in proportion to their physical strength and endurance.

I think that's more about their mastery of the spell. Additionally, Harry tried using it on a hedge, which it was noted to not be as effective on, only burning a small hole.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

Yes, because if a wizards masters a spell, it would be on the same lvl as other spells they mastered unless there's some unique context that says otherwise. And i have said before i think hp magic is non-physical energy system.

I don't think we'll agree here, as we've tried discussing this before. I still think limited energy system makes most sense, and those who made the Universal Energy Systems page seem to agree.

Shield charms aren't undone by counter spells, enchantments like disillusionment are undone by counter spells. And most of times, shield charms are destroyed by brute force.

I meant protective enchantments in general, as standard shield charms (at least the ones produced by someone who has mastered the spell) haven't been overpowered by offensive spells other than Avada Kedavra. And you can undo at least some protective enchantments. I also said that you could most likely break through protective enchantments and shield charms with a combination of undoing the enchantments with counter-spells, using a series of offensive spells where each spell individually wouldn't be able to break through, and using spells specifically dedicated to taking down shields.

They can't attack with an obscurus and scar people to death or smash into others by transforming in to a kinetic mass, but they can cause similar earthquake attacks(kama does it agaisnt aurors in fb3) and cast explosive spells. Like i said, i think hp magic is non physical energy system, so i argue we can scale non hax spells to each other in general and can scale offensive scales spells by scaling them off shield spells.

Basically the same as the first point.

Wormtail didn't display his reducto so we can't just say it doesn't scale to his explosive spell. I think they would have the same or near equal attack potency unless it's a amped version of the spells like "duo" or "maxima".

If we don't know for sure that the two spells should scale (or at the very least that it seems overwhelmingly likely), we can't scale them to each other.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

I think that's more about their mastery of the spell. Additionally, Harry tried using it on a hedge, which it was noted to not be as effective on, only burning a small hole.

But Harry taught Ginny how to use this spell himself, although he demonstrated less destructive power than she did.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

I meant protective enchantments in general, as standard shield charms (at least the ones produced by someone who has mastered the spell) haven't been overpowered by offensive spells other than Avada Kedavra. And you can undo at least some protective enchantments. I also said that you could most likely break through protective enchantments and shield charms with a combination of undoing the enchantments with counter-spells, using a series of offensive spells where each spell individually wouldn't be able to break through, and using spells specifically dedicated to taking down shields.

I will express my opinion that these may not be the defensive spells that wizards use to protect themselves from destructive attacks. That is, it is definitely not Protego and not Protego Maxima, which are standard defensive spells. Firstly, they are short-lived, and secondly, they act on a smaller area. We can assume that these are protective spells of the type of Dumbledore's ghost, which attacks everyone who enters the territory of the Black house, or something like an anti-teleporting, eye-repelling spell. This feat lacks context.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

But Harry taught Ginny how to use this spell himself, although he demonstrated less destructive power than she did.

Except, Ginny might just be more talented than Harry at this spell. Or, more likely, the target of their spells might have something to do with it. Personally, I feel like it was heavily implied that reducto doesn't work as well on for example a hedge as it does on a more solid object, and Harry's mistake here was that he chose the wrong spell for the wrong task, not that he didn't get the spell to work properly.

I will express my opinion that these may not be the defensive spells that wizards use to protect themselves from destructive attacks. That is, it is definitely not Protego and not Protego Maxima, which are standard defensive spells. Firstly, they are short-lived, and secondly, they act on a smaller area. We can assume that these are protective spells of the type of Dumbledore's ghost, which attacks everyone who enters the territory of the Black house, or something like an anti-teleporting, eye-repelling spell. This feat lacks context.

I was talking about protective enchantments in general, excluding protego and protego maxima (and protego totalum). See the second and third possibility I suggested, which apply to shield charms. Sorry if it was unclear.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

Except, Ginny might just be more talented than Harry at this spell. Or, more likely, the target of their spells might have something to do with it. Personally, I feel like it was heavily implied that reducto doesn't work as well on for example a hedge as it does on a more solid object, and Harry's mistake here was that he chose the wrong spell for the wrong task, not that he didn't get the spell to work properly.

I was talking about protective enchantments in general, excluding protego and protego maxima (and protego totalum). See the second and third possibility I suggested, which apply to shield charms. Sorry if it was unclear.

I just don't know how she can be more skilled at this spell if only Harry taught her how to use it this year? It just doesn't add up logically. I can also give examples of the use of this spell, which should be scaled by wizards:
1) Parvati Patil uses it to turn the table into ruins
2) Ginny had previously turned the statue into ruins
3) The wizards tried to break through the magic barrier that was placed on the Astronomical Tower, but without success


Well, maybe some protective spells can be undone. But if we take the example of the same Astronomical Tower, the wizards could not break through this protective barrier in any way.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

Well, maybe some protective spells can be undone. But if we take the example of the same Astronomical Tower, the wizards could not break through this protective barrier in any way.

You mean the one that stopped anyone without the dark mark from entering? Yeah, they couldn't undo it, but it seemed to disappear when the ceiling collapsed.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

You mean the one that stopped anyone without the dark mark from entering? Yeah, they couldn't undo it, but it seemed to disappear when the ceiling collapsed.

Yes

 

[Gendolfgg1]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:FANTASTIC_BEASTS_(2022)_Credence_vs_Albus_Dumbledore_fight_Scene_-_YouTube_и_еще_54_страницы_—_Личный_Microsoft_Edge_2024-02-25_02-0 1-13.mp4 )And, if we continue to talk about Credence, and started about longevity, then I would like to remind you, as I wrote above, that Albus calmly stood in confrontation with Credence physically, without magic, nevertheless he was alive and, moreover, well resist. I already sent this video fragment to James, but I’ll send it again. I don't know what level this is, but I think it's higher than the wall, since the waves that spread around the wizards destroy windows in a good radius and they break the asphalt when they fight.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

By the way, remind me, have you already looked into the feats of the Weasley brothers? Well, when they created a fire dragon and formed a swamp in the corridor.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

I meant protective enchantments in general, as standard shield charms (at least the ones produced by someone who has mastered the spell) haven't been overpowered by offensive spells other than Avada Kedavra. And you can undo at least some protective enchantments. I also said that you could most likely break through protective enchantments and shield charms with a combination of undoing the enchantments with counter-spells, using a series of offensive spells where each spell individually wouldn't be able to break through, and using spells specifically dedicated to taking down shields.

Harry who had mastered it by the time of ootp had his shield overpowered by dolohov's purple curse and newts shield was effortlessly overpowred by credence and grindelwalds shield started to crack after being attacked by dozen of mid-high tier wizards. But you won't be doing protective enchantments mid battle to block spells but use the shield charm to do so. And most enchantments are hax based. The only times wizards use protective enchantments is when they are trying to protect a location or conceal themselves. And even by following ur way, the wizards are ultimately breaking through the shield charm with brute force while they undo protective enchantments with counter spells which are hax.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:FANTASTIC_BEASTS_(2022)_Credence_vs_Albus_Dumbledore_fight_Scene_-_YouTube_и_еще_54_страницы_—_Личный_Microsoft_Edge_2024-02-25_02-0 1-13.mp4 )And, if we continue to talk about Credence, and started about longevity, then I would like to remind you, as I wrote above, that Albus calmly stood in confrontation with Credence physically, without magic, nevertheless he was alive and, moreover, well resist. I already sent this video fragment to James, but I’ll send it again. I don't know what level this is, but I think it's higher than the wall, since the waves that spread around the wizards destroy windows in a good radius and they break the asphalt when they fight.

I was unsure of this feat cause it could be credence crushing the ground while pushing albus at the same time, but looking again the grounds doesn't crush until he contacts with albus. So i assume albus is withstanding credence with his physical stats.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

By the way, remind me, have you already looked into the feats of the Weasley brothers? Well, when they created a fire dragon and formed a swamp in the corridor.

You mean them creating the dragon head with Weasley's Wildfire Whiz bangs? I beileve not.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

You mean them creating the dragon head with Weasley's Wildfire Whiz bangs? I beileve not.

Specifically about the moment when they failed the exams and ran away from the School.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

I also want to add that in this excerpt from the script it says that when the spells combined into one ray, that is, when they collided, Albus and Gellert began to absorb each other's powers. This is a very interesting point, because this feat is similar to manipulating mana and, obviously, judging by this scene, the magical powers of wizards scale to all spells, because wizards create spells using these very powers. That is, I think that if we take the example of Tina and Grindelwald, who also fought with combined spells, then they also absorbed each other's life forces and thus whoever had more of these forces won in the end. I think this is quite fair and it would explain why wizards can encounter spells without Priori Incantatem (and, by the way, it has about the same effect, only the same wands are needed).

 

[Gendolfgg1]

3. Teleportation via spacetime manipulation? I guess it's fine, but you should specify what its exact limitations are (how far can they teleport, does it consume their energy, can they use it in a straight fight, etc.)

1) Wizards can teleport no more than a few cities away, I think, because it says here that Voldemort needs to fly over the sea so that he can teleport to the Malfoy estate:

Harry knew it; his scar was bursting with the pain of it, and he could feel Voldemort flying through the sky from far away, over a dark and stormy sea, and soon he would be close enough to Apparate to them, and Harry could see no way out.

2) I don't think teleportation requires any energy, because it happens mentally:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:BPUdFftjRTE.jpg
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:Ko-q_iWhs6A.jpg

3) Teleportation can only be successfully used in battles by experienced wizards, because young wizards simply have not shown how to use it in battle. Voldemort, Grindelwald and Dumbledore are great examples of using teleportation in combat (Voldemort used it when chasing Harry in the last movie). Oh, and of course, the final battle in the third part of Fantastic Beasts.
I can also notice the fact, as I pointed out earlier, that wizards can use Splinching to tear off part of an opponent's body, taking them with them during teleportation:

Harry watched, horrified, as she tore open Ron’s shirt. He had always thought of Splinching as something comical, but this . . . His insides crawled unpleasantly as Hermione laid bare Ron’s upper arm, where a great chunk of flesh was missing, scooped cleanly away as though by a knife.
“As we Disapparated, Yaxley caught hold of me and I couldn’t get rid of him, he was too strong, and he was still holding on when we arrived at Grimmauld Place, and then — well, I think he must have seen the door, and thought we were stopping there, so he slackened his grip and I managed to shake him off and I brought us here instead!”

 

[Gendolfgg1]

I beileve not.

Well, then I think we need to sort out these feats and calculate them, because I noticed that there are not even profiles of George and Fred Weasley.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

Harry who had mastered it by the time of ootp had his shield overpowered by dolohov's purple curse

Partially bypassed, and as we have discussed before, I think this is probably (mostly) unique to this curse, as we don't see any other spells with the same effect.

and newts shield was effortlessly overpowred by credence

Do you mean when Credence cut through Newt's shield in Secrets of Dumbledore? If so, I think this was most likely a spell specifically designed to cut through shields, and not applicable to combat.

and grindelwalds shield started to crack after being attacked by dozen of mid-high tier wizards.

This is exactly my point; a barrage of spells, where each individual spell isn't powerful enough to destroy the shield, can take down shield charms. This means that offensive spells don't necessarily scale to the durability of shield charms, because when they are talking about breaking through shields, they could very well be talking about doing it with this method.

But you won't be doing protective enchantments mid battle to block spells but use the shield charm to do so. And most enchantments are hax based. The only times wizards use protective enchantments is when they are trying to protect a location or conceal themselves.

Of course, I agree on this.

And even by following ur way, the wizards are ultimately breaking through the shield charm with brute force while they undo protective enchantments with counter spells which are hax.

Yes.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

But I noticed a detail to which I provided proof from the script that Dumbledore is successfully fighting with Credence physically, and we know that Credence and Obscure are connected. That is, I think if Credence' magical power is directly proportional to his physical strength, then most likely we can also scale Dumbledore to this value, since he won Credence on pure physical strength:
Credence, frustrated, lashes out, lightning fast, and for a moment, he and Dumbledore duel at kinetic speed.
Dumbledore defends easily when Credence fires a VOLLEY of EXPLOSIVE SPELLS, which Dumbledore weathers before he stretches out his hand and hits Credence with a spell that sends him reeling backward, causing a black, kinetic mass to erupt from his body.

If you mean the part I've highlighted, it says that he used a spell.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

If you mean the part I've highlighted, it says that he used a spell.

"he and Dumbledore duel at kinetic speed." I think this is definitely a similar feat that I cited in the video clip above.