Some thoughts on the Harry Potter profiles

[Gendolfgg1]

I do not know what kind of magic Voldemort uses at this moment (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:NEBj7ftE-Lw.jpg), but in my opinion it is the creation of a metaphysical space. I know that usually ordinary Shield charms are designated under the magic dome, but in Harry Potter magic shields are described as specific shields, but definitely not as some kind of separate space. Moreover, Voldemort moved Nagini, around which this space was created, into the space around Snape's head, most likely so that he could not get out or resist. And this proves once again that these are not ordinary Shield charms that Snape could theoretically easily destroy. Could it be the creation of a pocket dimension? I do not know, but it is very interesting

 

[The_Fiend888]

Yes, that was definitely the case. In the book about the third part of Fantastic Beasts (https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/File:MpMd8-QBXzc.jpg), it was written that Dumbledore created a copy of Berlin in a physically mirrored world, invisible to ordinary people. Roughly speaking, he recreated the city in a pocket dimension. I believe this is applicable in combat, at least it can be considered an energy potential and destructive force.

For this to count as an AP feat, you need to prove that spell system is power-based, not hax-based. Also, if I remember correctly, in order to scale a creation feat, it was necessary to find the weight of the created object. So likely it is not comparable to energy needed to completely destroy a city.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

For this to count as an AP feat, you need to prove that spell system is power-based, not hax-based. Also, if I remember correctly, in order to scale a creation feat, it was necessary to find the weight of the created object. So likely it is not comparable to energy needed to completely destroy a city.

But anyway, Dumbledore used big energy to create a replica of the city. It takes a lot of magic.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

Overall, I agree that magic can reach much higher levels of attack potency in specific circumstances, but generally, it caps at Large Building level. Thus, my suggestion is that we add this to the Wizarding World verse page, but don't scale any characters to these feats. Something like "The verse generally ranges from Wall level to Large Building level, though there have been instances of accidental or unconventional use of magic reaching [whatever tier Alderton's feat is] or even [whatever tier Innocenti's feat is]."

but don't these feats just say that magic has a huge destructive potential? If we are talking about mastery in witchcraft, then, of course, the release of energy from the spell depends on it, but if even a random dark wizard was able to curb such power, then I doubt that, for example, Dumbledore or Grindelwald will not be able to.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

Make seperate book and movie profiles
Agree: (6) Gendolfgg1, Lord_Farquaad69420, DarkDragonMedeus, The_Fiend, Jamesthetaker, Jason_Courne
Disagree:
Neutral: (2) LightMoonWizard, NatzuX

Downgrade Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald to High 8-C
Agree: (3) Lord_Farquaad69420, DarkDragonMedeus, Jamesthetaker
Disagree: (4) LightMoonWizard, Gendolfgg1, The_Fiend (Credence's feat should be recalced first), Jason_Courne
Neutral: (1) NatzuX

Remove anything stating Grindelwald to be superior to Voldemort
Agree: (8) LightMoonWizard, Gendolfgg1, Lord_Farquaad69420, DarkDragonMedeus, The_Fiend, NatzuX, Jamesthetaker, Jason_Courne
Disagree:
Neutral:

Remove anything stating old Dumbledore to be weaker than before
Agree: (7) Gendolfgg1, Lord_Farquaad69420, DarkDragonMedeus, The_Fiend, NatzuX, Jamesthetaker, Jason_Courne
Disagree:
Neutral: (1) LightMoonWizard

Upgrade old Dumbledore to 9-B physically with subsonic reactions
Agree: (8) LightMoonWizard, Gendolfgg1, Lord_Farquaad69420, DarkDragonMedeus, The_Fiend, NatzuX, Jamesthetaker, Jason_Courne
Disagree:
Neutral:

Remove "higher in her prime" from McGonagall's profile
Agree: (5) Gendolfgg1, DarkDragonMedeus, The_Fiend, Jamesthetaker, Jason_Courne
Disagree:
Neutral: (3) LightMoonWizard, Lord_Farquaad69420, NatzuX

Add something like "The verse generally ranges from Wall level to Large Building level, though there have been instances of accidental or unconventional use of magic reaching [whatever tier Alderton's feat is] or even [whatever tier Innocenti's feat is]." to the Wizarding World verse page.
Agree: (7) LightMoonWizard (Disagrees with the verse ranging from Wall level to Large Building Level, rest is fine), Lord_Farquaad69420, DarkDragonMedeus, The_Fiend, NatzuX, Jamesthetaker, Jason_Courne (A bit conflicted)
Disagree:
Neutral: (1) Gendolfgg1

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

I'm trying to organise things a little here, so please state if you agree or disagree with these changes.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

Make seperate book and movie profiles
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:
Downgrade Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald to High 8-C
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

Remove anything stating Grindelwald to be superior to Voldemort
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

Remove anything stating old Dumbledore to be weaker than before
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

Upgrade old Dumbledore to 9-B physically with subsonic (or MHS if the lightning feats are calced and approved) reactions
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

Remove "higher in her prime" from McGonagall's profile
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

Add something like "The verse generally ranges from Wall level to Large Building level, though there have been instances of accidental or unconventional use of magic reaching [whatever tier Alderton's feat is] or even [whatever tier Innocenti's feat is]." to the Wizarding World verse page.
Agree:
Disagree:
Neutral:

Neutral

Disagree

Agree

Netural

Agree

Netural

Some what agree but disagree on the verses lvl part as i think the verse goes up to city-mountain with albus and credence's feat. Rest are fine.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

Make seperate book and movie profiles

Agree

Downgrade Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald to High 8-C

Disagree

Remove anything stating Grindelwald to be superior to Voldemort

Agree

Remove anything stating old Dumbledore to be weaker than before

Agree

Upgrade old Dumbledore to 9-B physically with subsonic reactions

I agree, and I don't understand why wizards still have a subsonic reaction if the hypersonic speed of spells has been demonstrated many times in the verse.

Remove "higher in her prime" from McGonagall's profile

Agree

Add something like "The verse generally ranges from Wall level to Large Building level, though there have been instances of accidental or unconventional use of magic reaching [whatever tier Alderton's feat is] or even [whatever tier Innocenti's feat is]." to the Wizarding World verse page.

Neutral, because I still think the verse should have a mountain level. But your statement about adding an postscript about the exploits of Alderton and Innocenti seems to be true.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Make seperate book and movie profiles
Agree: Gendolfgg1
Disagree:
Neutral: LightMoonWizard

I Agree

Downgrade Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald to High 8-C
Agree:
Disagree: LightMoonWizard, Gendolfgg1
Neutral:

I Disagree

Remove anything stating Grindelwald to be superior to Voldemort
Agree: LightMoonWizard, Gendolfgg1
Disagree:
Neutral:

I agree (It's common sense lmao)

Remove anything stating old Dumbledore to be weaker than before
Agree: Gendolfgg1
Disagree:
Neutral: LightMoonWizard

I agree

Upgrade old Dumbledore to 9-B physically with subsonic reactions
Agree: LightMoonWizard, Gendolfgg1
Disagree:
Neutral:

agree

Remove "higher in her prime" from McGonagall's profile
Agree: Gendolfgg1
Disagree:
Neutral: LightMoonWizard

neutral

Add something like "The verse generally ranges from Wall level to Large Building level, though there have been instances of accidental or unconventional use of magic reaching [whatever tier Alderton's feat is] or even [whatever tier Innocenti's feat is]." to the Wizarding World verse page.
Agree: LightMoonWizard (Disagrees with the verse ranging from Wall level to Large Building Level, rest is fine)
Disagree:
Neutral: Gendolfgg1

same as lightmoonwizard

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Make seperate book and movie profiles
Agree: Gendolfgg1
Disagree:
Neutral: LightMoonWizard

Agree

Downgrade Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald to High 8-C
Agree:
Disagree: LightMoonWizard, Gendolfgg1
Neutral:

Disagree

Remove anything stating Grindelwald to be superior to Voldemort
Agree: LightMoonWizard, Gendolfgg1
Disagree:
Neutral:

Agree

Remove anything stating old Dumbledore to be weaker than before
Agree: Gendolfgg1
Disagree:
Neutral: LightMoonWizard

Agree

Upgrade old Dumbledore to 9-B physically with subsonic reactions
Agree: LightMoonWizard, Gendolfgg1
Disagree:
Neutral:

Agree

Remove "higher in her prime" from McGonagall's profile
Agree: Gendolfgg1
Disagree:
Neutral: LightMoonWizard

Agree

Add something like "The verse generally ranges from Wall level to Large Building level, though there have been instances of accidental or unconventional use of magic reaching [whatever tier Alderton's feat is] or even [whatever tier Innocenti's feat is]." to the Wizarding World verse page.
Agree: LightMoonWizard (Disagrees with the verse ranging from Wall level to Large Building Level, rest is fine)
Disagree:
Neutral: Gendolfgg1

Thoughts the same as LightMoonWizard

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

Disagree

Disagree

I Disagre

Disagree

Just a note, my reason for thinking Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald should be High 8-C is that Harry Potter classifies as a Limited Energy System, meaning that we can't necessarily scale Dumbledore's fog creation to his offensive spells. Without that feat, they would all be High 8-C for the book profiles. They would still probably remain 8-A for the movie profiles, due to Voldemort destroying the shield around Hogwarts. Could you please explain why you disagree with the downgrade (I'm just interested in knowing why, as that is one of my main points in this thread)?

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

I guess I would still argue for the fog calculation as some form of Environmental Destruction irrelevant to combat-related AP.

By the way, Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan seemed to agree on not scaling the fog feat, and I got the impression that EliminatorVenom and Mariogoods agreed too. I won't add them to the vote, though, as their responses are quite old now.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

Just a note, my reason for thinking Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald should be High 8-C is that Harry Potter classifies as a Limited Energy System, meaning that we can't necessarily scale Dumbledore's fog creation to his offensive spells. Without that feat, they would all be High 8-C for the book profiles. They would still probably remain 8-A for the movie profiles, due to Voldemort destroying the shield around Hogwarts. Could you please explain why you disagree with the downgrade (I'm just interested in knowing why, as that is one of my main points in this thread)?

As I've been constantly saying. I think ww magic is non physical energy system and spells should've scale to each other unless unique context exists for wizards or the spell itself. So I think they should get a upgrade rather than a downgrade.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

As I've been constantly saying. I think ww magic is non physical energy system and spells should've scale to each other unless unique context exists for wizards or the spell itself. So I think they should get a upgrade rather than a downgrade.

That's fair, I know we have different opinions on that matter. I'll wait and see what everyone else thinks.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

Just a note, my reason for thinking Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald should be High 8-C is that Harry Potter classifies as a Limited Energy System, meaning that we can't necessarily scale Dumbledore's fog creation to his offensive spells. Without that feat, they would all be High 8-C for the book profiles. They would still probably remain 8-A for the movie profiles, due to Voldemort destroying the shield around Hogwarts. Could you please explain why you disagree with the downgrade (I'm just interested in knowing why, as that is one of my main points in this thread)?

I agree with LightMoonWizard

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

I agree with LightMoonWizard

Okay, thanks.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

I think ww magic is non physical energy system and spells should've scale to each other unless unique context exists for wizards or the spell itself.

I just don't see how magic in Harry Potter fulfills the requirements for a Non-physical Energy System, particularly not the one I've underlined.

In order to qualify for a Non-physical Energy System and do scaling according to it, a character or the system they are using needs to fulfill all criteria for a Limited Energy System, but for all techniques. Additionally, they have to demonstrate or have reliable statements that all their supernatural or otherwise non-physical powers scale to each other in Attack Potency. Hence an increase in power / energy should correspond to a proportional increase in the potency of their powers and abilities.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

I just don't see how magic in Harry Potter fulfills the requirements for a Non-physical Energy System, particularly not the one I've underlined.

Well hp wiki explains spell energy like this

While all witches and wizards were capable of casting spells with the proper training, the quality and duration of these spells depended entirely on the amount of spell energy they were capable of generating for it, as well as their level of success at transferring and distributing it.[3][4]

The level of spell energy that a witch or wizard was capable of at any given time could be influenced by their emotional state. For instance, witches and wizards that experienced strong emotions like happiness and anger were able to cast spells more effectively.[5][6]

In areas of frequent magical activity, a perpetual veil of spell energy would linger in the air around it and increase the duration of all spells used in the vicinity.[7] Even when spells were cast in areas where magic was used infrequently, a residual aura of spell energy would still linger in the area, and both could be identified by wizards with the Trace Charm.

So this makes sense with my arguement as the quality an duration of the spells depends on their natural power(spell energy amount) and skill(transferring and distributting).

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

Well hp wiki explains spell energy like this

So this makes sense with my arguement as the quality an duration of the spells depends on their natural power(spell energy amount) and skill(transferring and distributting).

All the sources they refer to on the page you quoted are mobile games. These mobile games are entirely non-canon, and there seems to be absolutely no evidence that the concept of "spell energy" exists in the books or movies.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

All the sources they refer to on the page you quoted are mobile games. These mobile games are entirely non-canon, and there seems to be absolutely no evidence that the concept of "spell energy" exists in the books or movies.

The bts abt mobile games are more like reffering to the name "spell energy" to the games microtransaction and game mechanics.

It's magic energy to be more direct. And we see too much magic can cause electronics to go weird and in fantastic beasts kama says that Corvus sent his serveant who is a half elf and her magic was weak and therefore left no trace that could follow.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

The bts abt mobile games are more like reffering to the name "spell energy" to the games microtransaction and game mechanics.

Yes.

It's magic energy to be more direct. And we see too much magic can cause electronics to go weird and in fantastic beasts kama says that Corvus sent his serveant who has a half elf cause her magic was weak and therefore left no trace that could follow.

This still doesn't say anything about magical energy. Additionally, if there really was something like magical energy, there's no explanation of how it works in canon. Which means that you have no proof that wizards can make spells more powerful by using more energy (which you have no/very little proof even exists). And I still don't see how they fulfill this criteria:

Additionally, they have to demonstrate or have reliable statements that all their supernatural or otherwise non-physical powers scale to each other in Attack Potency.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Just a note, my reason for thinking Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald should be High 8-C is that Harry Potter classifies as a Limited Energy System, meaning that we can't necessarily scale Dumbledore's fog creation to his offensive spells. Without that feat, they would all be High 8-C for the book profiles. They would still probably remain 8-A for the movie profiles, due to Voldemort destroying the shield around Hogwarts. Could you please explain why you disagree with the downgrade (I'm just interested in knowing why, as that is one of my main points in this thread)?

On second thought, this makes sense.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Just a note, my reason for thinking Dumbledore, Voldemort and Grindelwald should be High 8-C is that Harry Potter classifies as a Limited Energy System, meaning that we can't necessarily scale Dumbledore's fog creation to his offensive spells. Without that feat, they would all be High 8-C for the book profiles. They would still probably remain 8-A for the movie profiles, due to Voldemort destroying the shield around Hogwarts. Could you please explain why you disagree with the downgrade (I'm just interested in knowing why, as that is one of my main points in this thread)?

oh, i didn't realise that the high 8-C calc was from the voldemort nuke in the books (movie needs a recalc yet again imo), not fog spell. I agree with you then

 

[Gendolfgg1]

All the sources they refer to on the page you quoted are mobile games. These mobile games are entirely non-canon, and there seems to be absolutely no evidence that the concept of "spell energy" exists in the books or movies.

But such examples can be found in books and films. Young wizards use magic, as everyone knows, through emotions. That is, if the young wizard gets angry, then he can make something disappear, for example, as Harry did in the first part with glass. Or teleport. Let me remind you that at that age, wizards obviously did not yet know spells and how to use them correctly, so they created magic themselves from pure emotions.

And the moment of absorption of forces by connecting rays when wands and spells collide.

Moreover, we discussed earlier that there are spells tuned to Hax, the destructive power of which wizards can control despite the fact that they are not designed for it.

We also know that the accumulation of magical energy at Hogwarts is so strong that electrical appliances stop working because of it. This suggests that any spell generates the same energy, because if it were not so, then the energy of one spell would prevail over the energy of another, but this is not indicated in the book.

And yes, trace charm looks very convincing because they match the evidence I've given above. Also, Priori Incantatem is a good example.

Still, let's not forget about what Barty Jr. and Bellatrix said about Unforgettable Curses

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

On second thought, this makes sense.

oh, i didn't realise that the high 8-C calc was from the voldemort nuke in the books (movie needs a recalc yet again imo), not fog spell. I agree with you then

I've edited the post counting the votes. Have I placed your votes correctly?

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

I've edited the post counting the votes. Have I placed your votes correctly?

i mean it looks fine, this is specifically just book profiles right?

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

i mean it looks fine, this is specifically just book profiles right?

Yes, the movie profiles would be 8-A.

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Yes, the movie profiles would be 8-A.

the calc is a bit low imo but nobody is bothered to calc stuff lol, tho couldn't we have a high 8-C tier for environmental destruction?

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

the calc is a bit low imo but nobody is bothered to calc stuff lol, tho couldn't we have a high 8-C tier for environmental destruction?

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean?

 

[Lord_Farquaad69420]

Sorry, I don't really understand what you mean?

the 8-A calc is a bit low, since we visably see the sheild is bigger than hogwarts castle

The high 8-C calc comes from dumbledores fog feat, that would be considered environmental destruction. Its not combat applicable but it shows how strong his fog creation is

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

the 8-A calc is a bit low, since we visably see the sheild is bigger than hogwarts castle

Yeah, probably.

The high 8-C calc comes from dumbledores fog feat, that would be considered environmental destruction. Its not combat applicable but it shows how strong his fog creation is

I think you mean Low 7-C? Anyway, I wouldn't be opposed to mentioning it on his profile as long as we make it clear that it isn't combat applicable.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

This still doesn't say anything about magical energy. Additionally, if there really was something like magical energy, there's no explanation of how it works in canon. Which means that you have no proof that wizards can make spells more powerful by using more energy (which you have no/very little proof even exists). And I still don't see how they fulfill this criteria:

But it means magic remains as a form of something like energy. Someone's magic that's powerful enough can be traced, so if a wizard uses his magic to his full extend the power of it(amount of magical energy that was produced) is how much magical energy they can produce at their best. And shouldn't wand magic be something like energy channeling in general. They should be transferring someting like energy of magic through their wand so it channels it. And it's more abt controlling their magic rather than raw outputing their whole capability. Like lupin controlling his patronus so it doesn't become coporeal.

the quality and duration of these spells depended entirely on the amount of spell energy they were capable of generating for it, as well as their level of success at transferring and distributing it.

I think this makes sense for spells ap scaling.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

But such examples can be found in books and films. Young wizards use magic, as everyone knows, through emotions. That is, if the young wizard gets angry, then he can make something disappear, for example, as Harry did in the first part with glass. Or teleport. Let me remind you that at that age, wizards obviously did not yet know spells and how to use them correctly, so they created magic themselves from pure emotions.

And the moment of absorption of forces by connecting rays when wands and spells collide.

Moreover, we discussed earlier that there are spells tuned to Hax, the destructive power of which wizards can control despite the fact that they are not designed for it.

We also know that the accumulation of magical energy at Hogwarts is so strong that electrical appliances stop working because of it. This suggests that any spell generates the same energy, because if it were not so, then the energy of one spell would prevail over the energy of another, but this is not indicated in the book.

And yes, trace charm looks very convincing because they match the evidence I've given above. Also, Priori Incantatem is a good example.

Still, let's not forget about what Barty Jr. and Bellatrix said about Unforgettable Curses

I can explain the action of Priori Incantatem by the example of other sticks. So, as we know, it is the wand that chooses its owner. And if she doesn't choose it, but the wizard uses it anyway, then he just won't succeed. What do we see in the example of the Elder Wand? Voldemort, despite the fact that it did not belong to him, successfully used powerful spells (destroyed the shield of Hogwarts), but could not properly apply Avada Kedavra to Harry Potter, because he was the real owner of the Elder Wand. The same is true for the Priori Incantatem effect, because when two wands with the same core are connected, the wizards "connect" to each other's magical energy and suck the power out of each other. And the one with the most vitality wins the duel. We see this in the confrontation between Voldemort and Harry: the memories of Voldemort's victims are selected from his wand and spiritually help Harry in the confrontation, which is why Tom cannot defeat him in the usual way, although we know perfectly well that in fact Tom is spiritually many times stronger than Harry Potter. There is literally a scaling of the magical energy of the two wizards, regardless of the spells that were used in battle (because we know examples of using not only Avada Kedavra and Expelliarmus in battles with wands: Grindelwald and Dumbledore; Gellert Grindelwald and Tina). My theory is also confirmed by the fact that magic comes from the astral energy of the wizard.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

But it means magic remains as a form of something like energy. Someone's magic that's powerful enough can be traced, so if a wizard uses his magic to his full extend the power of it(amount of magical energy that was produced) is how much magical energy they can produce at their best. And shouldn't wand magic be something like energy channeling in general. They should be transferring someting like energy of magic through their wand so it channels it. And it's more abt controlling their magic rather than raw outputing their whole capability. Like lupin controlling his patronus so it doesn't become coporeal.

I think this makes sense for spells ap scaling.

I agree with you. The patronus is a good example. Moreover, some wizards can use an incorporeal Patronus, and more powerful wizards can use a corporeal one. Do you remember how Tonks couldn't create a corporeal Patronus because she was worried about Lupin? And the corporeal Patronus is stronger than the disembodied one, obviously Nymphadora could conjure it earlier.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

Also, Obscurus is called a "Dark energy". And this would support magic energy as the obscurial have been suppressing their magic(amount of magical energy they can output at once) that it forms into a parasite.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

But it means magic remains as a form of something like energy. Someone's magic that's powerful enough can be traced, so if a wizard uses his magic to his full extend the power of it(amount of magical energy that was produced) is how much magical energy they can produce at their best. And shouldn't wand magic be something like energy channeling in general. They should be transferring someting like energy of magic through their wand so it channels it. And it's more abt controlling their magic rather than raw outputing their whole capability. Like lupin controlling his patronus so it doesn't become coporeal.

I think this makes sense for spells ap scaling.

I can explain the action of Priori Incantatem by the example of other sticks. So, as we know, it is the wand that chooses its owner. And if she doesn't choose it, but the wizard uses it anyway, then he just won't succeed. What do we see in the example of the Elder Wand? Voldemort, despite the fact that it did not belong to him, successfully used powerful spells (destroyed the shield of Hogwarts), but could not properly apply Avada Kedavra to Harry Potter, because he was the real owner of the Elder Wand. The same is true for the Priori Incantatem effect, because when two wands with the same core are connected, the wizards "connect" to each other's magical energy and suck the power out of each other. And the one with the most vitality wins the duel. We see this in the confrontation between Voldemort and Harry: the memories of Voldemort's victims are selected from his wand and spiritually help Harry in the confrontation, which is why Tom cannot defeat him in the usual way, although we know perfectly well that in fact Tom is spiritually many times stronger than Harry Potter. There is literally a scaling of the magical energy of the two wizards, regardless of the spells that were used in battle (because we know examples of using not only Avada Kedavra and Expelliarmus in battles with wands: Grindelwald and Dumbledore; Gellert Grindelwald and Tina). My theory is also confirmed by the fact that magic comes from the astral energy of the wizard.

I'm sorry, but I don't have the energy to argue over this anymore. You're splitting hairs and using a hotchpotch of canon sources, non-canon sources, headcanons and theories, while not really providing any meaningful evidence to prove your claims besides speculation. I'm most likely not going to counter your points, as it's not going to achieve anything other than making this thread even longer and more chaotic. No offense intended in any way, though, and you're obviously entitled to having your own opinions. The fault is probably with me for not really being suited to debating.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

I'm sorry, but I don't have the energy to argue over this anymore. You're splitting hairs and using a hotchpotch of canon sources, non-canon sources, headcanons and theories, while not really providing any meaningful evidence to prove your claims besides speculation. I'm most likely not going to counter your points, as it's not going to achieve anything other than making this thread even longer and more chaotic. No offense intended in any way, though, and you're obviously entitled to having your own opinions. The fault is probably with me for not really being suited to debating.

We can discuss this with the provision of evidence. And I used exclusively canonical sources. Nothing wrong

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

We can discuss this with the provision of evidence. And I used exclusively canonical sources. Nothing wrong

I don't want to upset anyone, so I sincerely hope I didn't come across as accusatory. I think we've all made our points, though, so I don't really see any reason to continue debating.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

I'm sorry, but I don't have the energy to argue over this anymore. You're splitting hairs and using a hotchpotch of canon sources, non-canon sources, headcanons and theories, while not really providing any meaningful evidence to prove your claims besides speculation. I'm most likely not going to counter your points, as it's not going to achieve anything other than making this thread even longer and more chaotic. No offense intended in any way, though, and you're obviously entitled to having your own opinions. The fault is probably with me for not really being suited to debating.

Understand, let the result be whatever the majority vote is.

 

[The_Fiend888]

I agree with everything except downgrading Dumbledore and Grindelwald to the High 8-C. Because, as Lord Farquaad said, the Credence Busts a Hill calc needs to be recalculated. It would be more accurate to use the height of the pine trees for pixel scaling in this calc. And its new result should be much higher than Large Building level.
Dumbledore should scale to Credence because he can disperse and deflect his attacks.