The speed of light for Avada Kedavra

[Arceus0x]

So the films depict Avada Kedavra as a kind of green bolt, but this isn't the case in the books. It is always described as a flash or jet of light:


–The Goblet of Fire, pg. 216

–The Goblet of Fire, pg. 638

What the 4th movie is trying to show with the light show is the Priori Incantatem, the connection between wands that occur when they share the same core and clash spells.

– The Goblet of Fire, pg. 663-664

– The Goblet of Fire, pg. 696-697

Normally, Avada Kedavra can't be blocked:

– The Goblet of Fire, pg. 216

Avada Kedavra also doesn't push a target, they simply fall lifeless:

–Half Blood Prince, chapter twenty-eight

Avada Kedavra, as shown with the Priori Incantatem, does produce some kind of heat. This is also shown in the battle with Dumbledore:

– Order of the Phoenix, pg. 717-718

Anytime someone "dodges" Avada Kedavra, it is always some form of aim-dodge or the person casting it didn't aim well:

–Order of the Phoenix, pg. 696

– Order of the Phoenix, pg. 717

– The Deathly Hallows, pg. 57

– The Deathly Hallows, pg. 60

– The Deathly Hallows, pg. 61

Or the wand just straight refuses to kill someone:

–The Deadly Hallows, pg. 743-744

-

With all this being said, I don't think Avada Kedavra quite meet the lightspeed standards, but most contradictions about it come from the movies not portraying the spell correctly.

I mean one can pull a LOTR and split movies and books.

 

[DavidTPPM]

look at the short flashes of the spell - they are direct and invisible to the eyes. Wizards can't hold their hands perfectly straight, so because of the movements of their brush, the spell beam also moves, lol

As others have said, they would need to shake their hands at FTL speeds for the shaking to be actually visible. Otherwise it would just be a straight line going up and down as if you were shaking a sword or a stick, not a lightning like crackling.

what? This is not an ordinary beam of light, but a magic laser,

Not according to what you're trying to prove with your scans.

because all the energy is concentrated in one line of light, and not when it is scattered.
I threw off the screenshots above, where the spell does not explode

?

Because he should be dead, lol. Therefore, his body failed for a few seconds. For your information, Harry's body is dense matter, so the laser cuts into it and the entire light pulse is directed specifically at Potter.

No, Harry is literally launched backwards and his legs fly up. If Harry just got hit by a flash of light (which is what you're trying to prove), he wouldn't move at all. He would just drop to the ground since his legs would stop working after his death.

You can't show ordinary people reacting to spells.

So? The point is that ordinary people aren't physically superhuman and wizards are physically comparable to them.

Biologically, they are distinguishable. This is what Newt says. Are you seriously talking about this now?

Obviously? You're trying to upscale a subsonic human level verse to relativistic-FTL using evidence that's, at best, extremely shaky and weak.

I don't think Rowling intended logic in scaling speeds, she just made it clear to us that wizards are able to attack at the speed of light.

No, she made it clear their spells create light as a side effect.

And yes, Harry once got angry and sent out an electromagnetic pulse around himself, which created electrical interference, this is not a human level.

Not what I'm talking about and also not even remotely related to the topic.

If humans and wizards were indistinguishable physically, they would not be able to react to light rays, electricity discharges and a flying arrow.

And they can't react to those things, that's exactly why avadakedavra is not light.

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

I mean one can pull a LOTR and split movies and books.

Iirc, there was a thread meant to split both canons

 

[DavidTPPM]

If we were to split the canons to avoid the contradictions of the movies this might get even worse since all the evidence in the OP based on the movies would drop and the only "evidence" for it being light speed would be it being called light. Which is far from enough to classify as light speed

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

If we were to split the canons to avoid the contradictions of the movies this might get even worse since all the evidence in the OP based on the movies would drop and the only "evidence" for it being light speed would be it being called light. Which is far from enough to classify as light speed

It also has the fact is reflected (from the statue) and it produces heat. But that would be it.

 

[Arceus0x]

It also has the fact is reflected (from the statue) and it produces heat. But that would be it.

reflected from the statue's shield that is, which is also made of stone

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

reflected from the statue's shield that is, which is also made of stone

Golden statue, and it got deflected from its chest.

Edit: Ah, I see where the misconception came. The movie shows a stone statue blocking it. That never happened in the book. The statue I'm referencing is from the battle in the ministry during Order of the Phoenix:

But the headless golden statue of the wizard in the fountain had
sprung alive, leaping from its plinth to land with a crash on the
floor between Harry and Voldemort. The spell merely glanced off
its chest as the statue flung out its arms to protect Harry.

 

[Arceus0x]

Golden statue, and it got deflected from its chest.

Edit: Ah, I see where the misconception came. The movie shows a stone statue blocking it. That never happened in the book. The statue I'm referencing is from the battle in the ministry during Order of the Phoenix:

Ok I see. At this point it truly might be better to split book and film, that isn't even considering the fact that films have entire sections from the books missing fully. There's some serious differences so it might be better if it gets changed. One thing I want to check but idk how is the moment when Harry and Voldemort clash in book 4. I think there might be a different perspective on the spell.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

One thing I want to check but idk how is the moment when Harry and Voldemort clash in book 4. I think there might be a different perspective on the spell.

I quoted it already, lol. The clash is Priori Incantatem, a couple of spells reversing on themselves because the wands that cast them are made with the same core. It generated magnetism, lights and vibrations, reproducing the song of a phoenix (since the wand cores for them were from the same phoenix).

 

[Arceus0x]

I quoted it already, lol. The clash is Priori Incantatem, a couple of spells reversing on themselves because the wands that cast them are made with the same core. It generated magnetism, lights and vibrations, reproducing the song of a phoenix (since the wand cores for them were from the same phoenix).

ok then. I guess in that case the books might have Light Speed Avada Kedavra but the movies don't for sure.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

“I have nothing more to say to you, Potter,” he said quietly. “You have irked me too often, for too long. AVADA KEDAVRA!”

Harry had not even opened his mouth to resist. His mind was blank, his wand pointing uselessly at the floor.

But the headless golden statue of the wizard in the fountain had sprung alive, leaping from its plinth, and landed on the floor with a crash between Harry and Voldemort. The spell merely glanced off its chest as the statue flung out its arms, protecting Harry.

Another jet of green light flew from behind the silver shield. This time it was the one-armed centaur, galloping in front of Dumbledore, that took the blast and shattered into a hundred pieces, but before the fragments had even hit the floor, Dumbledore had drawn back his wand and waved it as though brandishing a whip. A long thin flame flew from the tip; it wrapped itself around Voldemort, shield and all. For a moment, it seemed Dumbledore had won, but then the fiery rope became a serpent, which relinquished its hold upon Voldemort at once and turned, hissing furiously, to face Dumbledore.

Avada Kedavra can't be lightspeed even in the books, as the statues could intercept it after it had been cast (unless you want to argue that the statues ran at lightspeed, which is physically impossible, as it would require infinite energy).

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Avada Kedavra can't be lightspeed even in the books, as the statues could intercept it after it had been cast (unless you want to argue that the statues ran at lightspeed, which is physically impossible, as it would require infinite energy).

Notice how in the first one, the statue "had sprung alive"? By the time Voldy fired it, the statue already animated. This is consistent with the myriad of times people just aim-dodge it.

The second one is more vague about it, but considering the multiple instances where aim-dodge is required (even during that same fight, notice how Dumbledore himself doesn't try to move instead directing the statue to move for him), I'd be more willing to suggest the statue moved as Voldy was casting it, thus managing to block it before truly firing.

 

[DragonZeroNova]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the argument "It's physically impossible for [x] to move at light-speed" is allowed as a rebuttal to things potentially moving at light-speed. But even if AV was light-speed, Voldy's arm movements, aiming and incantation isn't, unless you also think he moves and speaks at the speed of light, in which case everyone would be SOL anyways.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

I could be wrong, but I don't think the argument "It's physically impossible for [x] to move at light-speed" is allowed as a rebuttal to things potentially moving at light-speed.

Probably, judging by how many characters with physical bodies are deemed to have lightspeed combat and reaction speed. I still think it's illogical, in most cases, to assume that objects can move faster than real light, rather than assuming that the fictional light in question is slower than real light, or that isn't really light at all. If one of the laws related to light is different (that objects/people can somehow move at its speed), why do we assume that its other properties stay the same (e.g. its speed)?

But even if AV was light-speed, Voldy's arm movements, aiming and incantation isn't, unless you also think he moves and speaks at the speed of light, in which case everyone would be SOL anyways.

My point was that the text made it seem like the statues moved after the spell was already fired, although LephyrTheRevanchist has commented that this might not be the only possible interpretation.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

My point was that the text made it seem like the statues moved after the spell was already fired, although LephyrTheRevanchist has commented that this might not be the only possible interpretation.

Though I certainly recognize the possibility. Not even I fully agree AK qualifies (and you did bring a counter, the spell made the statue explode/crumble, that does go against light speed standards).

 

[Gendolfgg1]

They don't, and even then the beam doesn't change mediums, it has no reason to split into different colors anyways.

You can shine a flashlight through the window - it will have exactly the same effect as when emitting a spell. Do you know what the effect of light diffraction is? This is the circumference of other material bodies by electromagnetic waves, which is why they are reflected and, as it were, create "new electromagnetic waves" that are divided into a spectrum of light. In this case, the material body is a air molecules. Since the spell originates from the wand, and not from the material world, it passes into a new environment and is thereby refracted.

so what is it that you're arguing at this point? Like i said, I don't see any rainbow effect, all I see is just the light.

It is very strange, literally, the circles of the rainbow are visually precisely visible. Or is it some kind of problem for me?

I rewatched the scene pixel by pixel and what happens in actuality is that the spell hit the shield. If the spell hits the shield it gets reflected, we see that happen twice. If they hit the statue head on it dies. The scenes before and later show us that the weapons are of the exact same texture as the stone statues and aren't reflective. This further proves that the statues have enchanted shields.

What? The spell LITERALLY flies across the sword. Whatever, in any case, there is a reflection from metal surfaces. The weapon reflects light because it reflected Avada Kedavra. You absolutely cannot claim that the statues have enchanted shields or weapons (this is not stated anywhere). Minerva just animated the statues and that's it.

except that doesn't make any sense because HE WASN'T BURNED. Literally nothing happened to him. What happened was, the spell hit, the magic burst forth making an explosion and then harry died with 0 injuries. That's it. Light doesn't behave that way, thus it is not light.

At other times, no explosions occur with the body that the spell hits. It may just be a beautiful shot, or because of a too dense environment (fog, for example), the light was emitted so strongly, creating an "explosion". If light behaved differently, it would not exhibit the phenomena characteristic of real light.

Lol

lol?

 

[Gendolfgg1]

As others have said, they would need to shake their hands at FTL speeds for the shaking to be actually visible. Otherwise it would just be a straight line going up and down as if you were shaking a sword or a stick, not a lightning like crackling.

Let's say (however, it may just be a constant flow of energy), but wizards have this speed, since they can reflect such spells (assuming that they move at light speed) and outpace other wizards many times in speed. No wonder we were shown a blurred effect when moving wizards. It looks like lightning because there is a constant stream of light.

Not according to what you're trying to prove with your scans.

If it were an ordinary ray of light, it would not be able to damage material objects.

?

Can you throw off examples of using a spell when it explodes? One is not enough when in other cases there is no explosion

No, Harry is literally launched backwards and his legs fly up. If Harry just got hit by a flash of light (which is what you're trying to prove), he wouldn't move at all. He would just drop to the ground since his legs would stop working after his death.

Obviously, the laser creates an impulse that pushes Harry.

So? The point is that ordinary people aren't physically superhuman and wizards are physically comparable to them.

Em... so you still can't throw away evidence that people can react to Avada Kedavra?

Obviously? You're trying to upscale a subsonic human level verse to relativistic-FTL using evidence that's, at best, extremely shaky and weak.

You are still ignoring the fact of light diffraction and reflection from metal surfaces, which is the MAIN evidence in favor of the fact that this spell moves at the speed of light. Moreover, the speed of Grindelwald's lightning bolts that Newt reacted to has already been calculated, so all that remains is to create a new thread to update the reaction, lol, my thread is not about reaction speed at all, but about the speed of the spell.

No, she made it clear their spells create light as a side effect.

If that were the case, she would have clearly made it clear to us. But ALL sources claim that it is a light ray. For example, there were lightning spells that were described as lightning, but could be written as a flash of light, but they did not.

Not what I'm talking about and also not even remotely related to the topic.

You say that wizards are physically comparable to humans, but this is not the case.

And they can't react to those things, that's exactly why avadakedavra is not light.

They can, once they have demonstrated

 

[Gendolfgg1]

Avada Kedavra can't be lightspeed even in the books, as the statues could intercept it after it had been cast (unless you want to argue that the statues ran at lightspeed, which is physically impossible, as it would require infinite energy).

Are you seriously arguing that this will require infinite energy when the verse directly distorts the laws of physics? The statue could easily outrun the spell.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

Are you seriously arguing that this will require infinite energy when the verse directly distorts the laws of physics? The statue could easily outrun the spell.

I hope your intention isn't to ridicule me, as that would be quite rude.

Here is a number of times where spells are described as jets of light, just like Avada Kedavra:

A loud bang echoed around the stadium and a jet of green light shot out of the wrong end of Ron’s wand, hitting him in the stomach and sending him reeling backward onto the grass.

“STUPEFY!” roared twenty voices — there was a blinding series of flashes and Harry felt the hair on his head ripple as though a powerful wind had swept the clearing. Raising his head a fraction of an inch he saw jets of fiery red light flying over them from the wizards’ wands, crossing one another, bouncing off tree trunks, rebounding into the darkness — “Stop!” yelled a voice he recognized. “STOP! That’s my son,”

Jets of light shot from both wands, hit each other in midair, and ricocheted off at angles — Harry’s hit Goyle in the face, and Malfoy’s hit Hermione. Goyle bellowed and put his hands to his nose, where great ugly boils were springing up — Hermione, whimpering in panic, was clutching her mouth

Ten feet from Cedric, Harry dived behind a marble angel to avoid the jets of red light and saw the tip of its wing shatter as the spells hit it.

Jets of red light were still flying beside Hagrid’s cabin, yet somehow they seemed to be bouncing off him.

A jet of red light had shot from the end of Bellatrix Lestrange’s wand, but Malfoy had deflected it. His spell caused hers to hit the shelf a foot to the left of Harry and several of the glass orbs there shattered.

The jet of red light flew right over the Death Eater’s shoulder and hit a glass-fronted cabinet on the wall full of variously shaped hourglasses. The cabinet fell to the floor and burst apart, glass flying everywhere, then sprang back up onto the wall, fully mended, then fell down again, and shattered —

None of these descriptions sound like how real light would behave.

Through the darting bodies, the flashes of light, Harry could see Neville crawling along. He dodged another jet of red light and flung himself flat on the ground to reach Neville.

The jet of red light, his own Stunning Spell, bounced back at him. Harry scrambled back behind the fountain, and one of the goblin’s ears went flying across the room.

Harry felt Fenrir collapse against him; with a stupendous effort he pushed the werewolf off and onto the floor as a jet of green light came flying toward him; he ducked and ran, headfirst, into the fight.

Jets of light flew from Draco’s, Narcissa’s, and Greyback’s wands; Harry threw himself to the floor, rolling behind a sofa to avoid them.

“Dudley, shut — ” A fist made contact with the side of Harry’s head, lifting Harry off his feet. Small white lights popped in front of Harry’s eyes; for the second time in an hour he felt as though his head had been cleaved in two; next moment he had landed hard on the ground, and his wand had flown out of his hand. “You moron, Dudley!” Harry yelled, his eyes watering with pain, as he scrambled to his hands and knees, now feeling around frantically in the blackness. He heard Dudley blundering away, hitting the alley fence, stumbling.

Harry can react to spells described as jets of light, but not to Dudley punching him.

But even as he shouted, one more jet of green light had flown at Dumbledore from Voldemort’s wand and the snake had struck — Fawkes swooped down in front of Dumbledore, opened his beak wide, and swallowed the jet of green light whole.

Can Fawkes fly at the speed of light?

Then a blinding, jagged jet of white light flew through the air: Harry thought of lightning, but Snape had dropped to his knees and his wand had flown out of his hand.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, light can't be jagged.

Conclusion:
"Jets of light" is not meant to be taken literally, and Avada Kedavra isn't lightspeed.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

I hope your intention isn't to ridicule me, as that would be quite rude.

No, absolutely not. Maybe it looked like an insult, but that's not what I meant at all, I have problems with English.

What do you think of my evidence presented in this post? It is not necessary to focus only on non-obvious contradictory facts, many of which can be rationally explained.

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

No, absolutely not. Maybe it looked like an insult, but that's not what I meant at all, I have problems with English.

Oh, no problem! English isn't my first language either.

What do you think of my evidence presented in this post? It is not necessary to focus only on non-obvious contradictory facts, many of which can be rationally explained.

I don't think what you've presented is enough to get Avada Kedavra to lightspeed, for the same reasons as several others have argued earlier. I don't think the quotes I found can be brushed off without an explanation, either.

 

[DragonZeroNova]

"Therefore, lasers/light beams are only accepted as real if they meet, at a minimum, a few of these criteria:

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
• The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror.
• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources.
• It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source.
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera.

Furthermore, there are a few criteria which show a beam is NOT real light:

• It is shown at different speeds in the same material.
• It is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans.
• They do not travel in straight lines (unless you can prove refraction/reflection, see above.)"

Out of these criteria, I do not remember if it has ever been in a situation where it could refract, the sources who call it light may be reliable, but not towards the speed of attacks (Jets of lights seem to be an aesthetic description), has never been stated to be composed of photons/light by a reliable source, has diffused before in a realistic way, but then didn't diffuse for the other statue (which is really confusing and inconsistent) and it's origin is a stick. It also has no anti-criteria, as they (presumably) travel in a straight line (in the books, it's obvious movie AV is not light) is not tangible (unless you count hitting a target and performing the effect of the attack), and has never been shown to be at different speeds. While reaction time arguments shouldn't be allowed due to aim-dodging (which also means no one should scale to SOL anyways), I don't think even book AV can be classified as SOL not because of counter-arguments, but simply due to a lack of proof necessary for VSB to classify something as light, seeing as it doesn't properly meet a single requirement.

TLDR: AV scores 0/5 to (generously) 0.5/5 on Light requirements

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

"Therefore, lasers/light beams are only accepted as real if they meet, at a minimum, a few of these criteria:

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
• The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror.
• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources.
• It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source.
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera.

Furthermore, there are a few criteria which show a beam is NOT real light:

• It is shown at different speeds in the same material.
• It is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans.
• They do not travel in straight lines (unless you can prove refraction/reflection, see above.)"

Out of these criteria, I do not remember if it has ever been in a situation where it could refract, the sources who call it light may be reliable, but not towards the speed of attacks (Jets of lights seem to be an aesthetic description), has never been stated to be composed of photons/light by a reliable source, has diffused before in a realistic way, but then didn't diffuse for the other statue (which is really confusing and inconsistent) and it's origin is a stick. It also has no anti-criteria, as they (presumably) travel in a straight line (in the books, it's obvious movie AV is not light) is not tangible (unless you count hitting a target and performing the effect of the attack), and has never been shown to be at different speeds. While reaction time arguments shouldn't be allowed due to aim-dodging (which also means no one should scale to SOL anyways), I don't think even book AV can be classified as SOL not because of counter-arguments, but simply due to a lack of proof necessary for VSB to classify something as light, seeing as it doesn't properly meet a single requirement.

TLDR: AV scores 0/5 to (generously) 0.5/5 on Light requirements

Pretty much my standing as well. It fits the secondary, support requirements, but practically none of the main necessary ones.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

Here is a number of times where spells are described as jets of light, just like Avada Kedavra:

But still, let's keep in mind that this is not Avada Kedavra. Of course, I can find phenomena characteristic of light that manifest these spells, but for now we will do without this, my thread is not about all spells, but about one specifically.

None of these descriptions sound like how real light would behave.

I can't agree. There is just a description of the "light rays" and "light flashes" of spells. For example, Stupefy has always been described as a light flash and it did not launch any projectiles. In Fantastic Beasts, it looks like a white flash of light that instantly hits the material objects that the wizard is aiming at. And when using it, the effect of light diffraction also manifests itself. I honestly don't know why in the film it is shown first as rays of red light, and then as a white flash or a blue one. But it's not really important.

Harry can react to spells described as jets of light, but not to Dudley punching him.

As I wrote above, Rowling did not think about scaling the speed of wizards. She just made it clear that in a magic duel, wizards can react to spells. They don't always have to move at high speed, and given that magic is forbidden outside of Hogwarts, it would be strange to show superhuman speed and reflexes against ordinary people. But by the way, as a child, Harry unknowingly used teleportation when he was running away from Dudley. We know that teleportation distorts space-time

Can Fawkes fly at the speed of light?

If Avada Kedavra travel at the speed of light, then why not. At the moment Dumbledore died, Fawkes seems to have become ubiquitous on Hogwarts grounds, so that his singing could be heard everywhere. Although it may just be a magical singing that is reflected from the walls of the castle.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, light can't be jagged.

As I wrote earlier, due to the continuous flow of the spell, its beam is constantly moving, as the wizards' hands vibrate, thereby causing the magic wand to tremble, it is obvious that the spell will bend. But it itself is moving in a straight trajectory. This is clearly visible in the slow effect when Dumbledore and Grindelwald spells collide, and when Gellert sends short flashes of light at Albus: we only see the outbreak and its consequences. This is also noticeable when Harry is in a duel against the Dark Lord.

Conclusion:
"Jets of light" is not meant to be taken literally, and Avada Kedavra isn't lightspeed.

I still disagree with your conclusion. Considering how many arguments I have given in the direction of light velocity for the spell, the usual denial and counterargument that Avada Kedavra moves along a "curved line" do not cancel the phenomenon of light diffraction and reflection from metal surfaces.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

"Therefore, lasers/light beams are only accepted as real if they meet, at a minimum, a few of these criteria:

• The beam refracts in a new material, such as a liquid or...
• The beam diffuses in a reasonably realistic way or reflects off a material that it can be expected to, such as a non-magical mirror.
• The beam is called lightspeed by reliable sources.
• It is stated to be composed/consisting of photons or light itself, again by a reliable source.
• It has its origin at a realistic source of light, such as a camera.

Furthermore, there are a few criteria which show a beam is NOT real light:

• It is shown at different speeds in the same material.
• It is tangible and can be interacted with physically by normal humans.
• They do not travel in straight lines (unless you can prove refraction/reflection, see above.)"

The key in this list is

• They do not travel in straight lines (unless you can prove refraction/reflection, see above.)"

. This is exactly what I proved, so the counterargument in favor of the fact that the spell does not move in a straight line (although I have already refuted it) has no force.

Out of these criteria, I do not remember if it has ever been in a situation where it could refract, the sources who call it light may be reliable, but not towards the speed of attacks (Jets of lights seem to be an aesthetic description), has never been stated to be composed of photons/light by a reliable source, has diffused before in a realistic way, but then didn't diffuse for the other statue (which is really confusing and inconsistent) and it's origin is a stick. It also has no anti-criteria, as they (presumably) travel in a straight line (in the books, it's obvious movie AV is not light) is not tangible (unless you count hitting a target and performing the effect of the attack), and has never been shown to be at different speeds. While reaction time arguments shouldn't be allowed due to aim-dodging (which also means no one should scale to SOL anyways), I don't think even book AV can be classified as SOL not because of counter-arguments, but simply due to a lack of proof necessary for VSB to classify something as light, seeing as it doesn't properly meet a single requirement.

If you read my thread, you would see rainbow circles around the spell. This is called light diffraction. This is not just a beautiful description of the spell, but an accurate one. In the world of Harry Potter, spells were also described as flashes of light, lightning bolts, streams of flame, etc. Which gives you exactly an idea of what's going on there. That is why the light ray is a direct description of the spell. The very name "light ray" tells us that it consists of light. Well, if we give as an example spells similar to Avada Kedavra, then I can give an example of a Patronus, which is also described as a flash of light. It consists of light, that is, photons:

Snow crunched beneath his feet, but the doe made no noise as she passed through the trees, for she was nothing but light. Deeper and deeper into the forest she led him, and Harry walked quickly, sure that when she stopped, she would allow him to approach her properly. And then she would speak and the voice would tell him what he needed to know.

What? The golden statue reflected the spell because it was made of metal. The other statue collapsed because it was made of a different material, lol. Lumos Solem also comes from a stick, so what? It has a lightspeed. I literally gave an example of 5 arguments that you ignored, and now write that there is not enough evidence. There is no logic

TLDR: AV scores 0/5 to (generously) 0.5/5 on Light requirements

 

[Gendolfgg1]

reflected from the statue's shield that is, which is also made of stone

stone armor cannot "clank", by the way, this is peculiar only to metal

And all along the corridor the statues and suits of armour jumped down from their plinths, and from the echoing crashes from the floors above and below, Harry knew that their fellows throughout the castle had done the same... Cheering and yelling, the horde of moving statues stampeded past Harry; some of them smaller, others larger than life. There were animals too, and the clanking suits of armour brandished swords and spiked balls on chains.

 

[Hypertornado099]

As I wrote earlier, due to the continuous flow of the spell, its beam is constantly moving, as the wizards' hands vibrate, thereby causing the magic wand to tremble, it is obvious that the spell will bend

If the magic wand trembled, the beam would still be straight. It would just change direction. I can't believe I have to explain something this simple. Try taking a flashlight and shake it. See if the beam of light becomes jagged

 

[Arceus0x]

You can shine a flashlight through the window - it will have exactly the same effect as when emitting a spell. Do you know what the effect of light diffraction is? This is the circumference of other material bodies by electromagnetic waves, which is why they are reflected and, as it were, create "new electromagnetic waves" that are divided into a spectrum of light. In this case, the material body is a air molecules. Since the spell originates from the wand, and not from the material world, it passes into a new environment and is thereby refracted.

Except that makes no sense since in that case it either wouldn't change much at all (like the light through a window) or would split into different colors... Which is what I would've said had it not been for the fact that green light cannot diffract into a rainbow, only white light can since it is the combo of all light frequencies. Green only diffracts into green, search up green light diffraction. It also looks very different.

It is very strange, literally, the circles of the rainbow are visually precisely visible. Or is it some kind of problem for me?

I think that might be a problem for you since I just went over all your screenshots, zoomed in on every one of them and none of them have rainbow effects, only light waves with the same color.

What? The spell LITERALLY flies across the sword. Whatever, in any case, there is a reflection from metal surfaces. The weapon reflects light because it reflected Avada Kedavra. You absolutely cannot claim that the statues have enchanted shields or weapons (this is not stated anywhere). Minerva just animated the statues and that's it.

I think, as I will later say again, we are confusing movies and books now. Books have the metal statues and suits of armor, the movies don't. You can't really use the same arguments for both since both mediums contradict each other.

At other times, no explosions occur with the body that the spell hits. It may just be a beautiful shot, or because of a too dense environment (fog, for example), the light was emitted so strongly, creating an "explosion". If light behaved differently, it would not exhibit the phenomena characteristic of real light.

Except there ain't no fog. For it to have this effect with fog you'd need so much fog we'd barely see harry or voldemort (or see the scene from like 50 meters away).

lol?

Kek

stone armor cannot "clank", by the way, this is peculiar only to metal

And all along the corridor the statues and suits of armour jumped down from their plinths, and from the echoing crashes from the floors above and below, Harry knew that their fellows throughout the castle had done the same... Cheering and yelling, the horde of moving statues stampeded past Harry; some of them smaller, others larger than life. There were animals too, and the clanking suits of armour brandished swords and spiked balls on chains.

Yet again, you're confusing books and movies, which have very different interpretations of the event.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

Um actually. In the ps2 prisoner of azakaban game, Ron moves in tandem with beam of light 10:07

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

But still, let's keep in mind that this is not Avada Kedavra. Of course, I can find phenomena characteristic of light that manifest these spells, but for now we will do without this, my thread is not about all spells, but about one specifically.

Of course, this is not Avada Kedavra, but the spells in question are described as jets of light, just like the Killing Curse. It seems strange to say that "jet of light" shouldn't be taken literally for most spells, but that it should for Avada Kedavra. My point is that even though other spells are described as "jets of light", they still aren't meant to be real light, making it likely that the same applies to Avada Kedavra, which is described in the same way.

I can't agree. There is just a description of the "light rays" and "light flashes" of spells. For example, Stupefy has always been described as a light flash and it did not launch any projectiles. In Fantastic Beasts, it looks like a white flash of light that instantly hits the material objects that the wizard is aiming at. And when using it, the effect of light diffraction also manifests itself. I honestly don't know why in the film it is shown first as rays of red light, and then as a white flash or a blue one. But it's not really important.

The quotes show spells, described as "jets of light", bounce off tree trunks, push people and objects, blow things up, shatter glass, ricochet off each other and even bounce off Hagrid. This sounds nothing like how real light would behave.

As I wrote above, Rowling did not think about scaling the speed of wizards. She just made it clear that in a magic duel, wizards can react to spells.

Exactly, which makes it seem strange that they can't react to punches, if they normally react to "lightspeed" spells.

They don't always have to move at high speed, and given that magic is forbidden outside of Hogwarts, it would be strange to show superhuman speed and reflexes against ordinary people.

If this is the case, I find it a bit odd that it's never mentioned or even implied.

But by the way, as a child, Harry unknowingly used teleportation when he was running away from Dudley. We know that teleportation distorts space-time

Okay? How is this relevant?

If Avada Kedavra travel at the speed of light, then why not. At the moment Dumbledore died, Fawkes seems to have become ubiquitous on Hogwarts grounds, so that his singing could be heard everywhere. Although it may just be a magical singing that is reflected from the walls of the castle.

If Fawkes can fly at the speed of light, why is it never mentioned? Dumbledore explains Fawkes' abilities to Harry in Chamber of Secrets, and he doesn't even mention something like "Fawkes can fly fast".

“Fawkes is a phoenix, Harry. Phoenixes burst into flame when it is time for them to die and are reborn from the ashes. Watch him ...”
“It’s a shame you had to see him on a Burning Day,” said Dumbledore, seating himself behind his desk. “He’s really very handsome most of the time, wonderful red and gold plumage. Fascinating creatures, phoenixes. They can carry immensely heavy loads, their tears have healing powers, and they make highly faithful pets.”

As I wrote earlier, due to the continuous flow of the spell, its beam is constantly moving, as the wizards' hands vibrate, thereby causing the magic wand to tremble, it is obvious that the spell will bend. But it itself is moving in a straight trajectory. This is clearly visible in the slow effect when Dumbledore and Grindelwald spells collide, and when Gellert sends short flashes of light at Albus: we only see the outbreak and its consequences. This is also noticeable when Harry is in a duel against the Dark Lord.

This is completely untrue, just as Hypertornado099 and Arceus0x have already explained. You're also using scenes from the movies to counter my point from the books, which makes it hard to debate you, as the two contradict each other far too much.

If the magic wand trembled, the beam would still be straight. It would just change direction. I can't believe I have to explain something this simple. Try taking a flashlight and shake it. See if the beam of light becomes jagged

That's not how light works. Unless their hands are vibrating at FTL speeds that shit ain't gonna work

I still disagree with your conclusion. Considering how many arguments I have given in the direction of light velocity for the spell, the usual denial and counterargument that Avada Kedavra moves along a "curved line" do not cancel the phenomenon of light diffraction and reflection from metal surfaces.

You haven't really made any arguments in favour of Avada Kedavra being lightspeed that can't be refuted. My conclusion is based on the sum of all the evidence I presented, not just that last argument, which you by the way haven't really countered properly.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

Avada Kedavra, at least, has a speed higher than sound, since Harry did not have time to hear the pronunciation of the spell, but only the movement of Voldemort's lips and a flash of light:

Voldemort had raised his wand. His head was still tilted to one
side, like a curious child, wondering what would happen if he pro ceeded. Harry looked back into the red eyes, and wanted it to hap pen now, quickly, while he could still stand, before he lost control,
before he betrayed fear —
He saw the mouth move and a flash of green light, and every thing was gone.

.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

If Fawkes can fly at the speed of light, why is it never mentioned? Dumbledore explains Fawkes' abilities to Harry in Chamber of Secrets, and he doesn't even mention something like "Fawkes can fly fast".

Tbf, he doesn't mention his teleportation ability that isn't limited by anti apparition charms like the house elves and the phoniexs song power. And if jet/beam of light spells are ls, pretty much everyone in the verse would be at least relativistic so it wouldn't be much of a speed to mention as impressive.

 

[Hypertornado099]

Avada Kedavra, at least, has a speed higher than sound, since Harry did not have time to hear the pronunciation of the spell, but only the movement of Voldemort's lips and a flash of light:

Voldemort had raised his wand. His head was still tilted to one
side, like a curious child, wondering what would happen if he pro ceeded. Harry looked back into the red eyes, and wanted it to hap pen now, quickly, while he could still stand, before he lost control,
before he betrayed fear —
He saw the mouth move and a flash of green light, and every thing was gone.

.

Your description of the feat does not match what the text says and even if it did, it wouldn't be a speed feat for the spell

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

Tbf, he doesn't mention his teleportation ability that isn't limited by anti apparition charms like the house elves and the phoniexs song power. And if jet/beam of light spells are ls, pretty much everyone in the verse would be at least relativistic so it wouldn't be much of a speed to mention as impressive.

Yeah, you might have a point about the teleportation bit, but him being able to fly at lightspeed would still be impressive enough that I think it would be worth mentioning, as even the fastest brooms fly at around 150 mph.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

Your description of the feat does not match what the text says and even if it did, it wouldn't be a speed feat for the spell

What? It literally says that Harry saw the movement of lips and a flash of light, but did not hear the spell before he died.

 

[LightMoonWizard]

Yeah, you might have a point about the teleportation bit, but him being able to fly at lightspeed would still be impressive enough that I think it would be worth mentioning, as even the fastest brooms fly at around 150 mph.

Hmm, maybe, but I think dumbledore was just giving few explanation of fawkes power(thus teleportation, flightspeed etc was lelft out). And magical beasts flight might be superior to that of wizard broomsticks as harry who was the owner of the fastest brooms at the time noted that he had never moved so fast while riding a thestral.

 

[Gendolfgg1]

What? It literally says that Harry saw the movement of lips and a flash of light, but did not hear the spell before he died.

this literally tells us that the flash of the spell is faster than the speed of sound, otherwise Harry would have heard: "AVADA KEDAVRA!!!"

 

[Dweller_Of_Dreams]

Hmm, maybe, but I think dumbledore was just giving few explanation of fawkes power(thus teleportation, flightspeed etc was lelft out). And magical beasts flight might be superior to that of wizard broomsticks as harry who was the owner of the fastest brooms at the time noted that he had never moved so fast while riding a thestral.

Yeah, possibly. This wasn't really my main point, I just thought Fawkes flying at lightspeed sounded slightly ridiculous. The other points still stand, though, meaning that Fawkes didn't fly at lightspeed anyway.

 

[Hypertornado099]

What? It literally says that Harry saw the movement of lips and a flash of light, but did not hear the spell before he died.

Where does it say he didn't hear the spell?

 

[Gendolfgg1]

Where does it say he didn't hear the spell?

I don't know where you see that it says Voldemort say the spell. If Harry had heard this, they would have written to us about it in a text, as was the case before. But this is not said anywhere. Harry only saw Tom's lips move.