The End All Be All of Fire Force Revision Threads!

[RoyGundam]

The fact that Adolla's reality warping made Pi into a rational number is obvious from Giovanni's statement

 

[RoyGundam]

and???? how does that say "oh humans will never evolve to solve Pi"

BTW, in mathematical terms, pi is solved. We literally know the infinite series that generates the number (actually there is more than one such series)

What it is not is rational

 

[Maitreya12]

Because pi is an irrational number. There simply is no end to it. For there to be such an end, the nature of the universe itself must change

No, pi became solvable because Adolla changed the nature of the Fire Force universe into one where pi is a rational number rather than an irrational number

Yeah it’s literally confirmed in Fire Force that Pi didn’t have an end which made it insolvable but that was fixed during the last cataclysm when Adolla rewrote the rules of the world so idk what Pain is talking about here either with them “solving” pi since it was made abundantly clear Pi wasn’t solvable to begin with.

 

[Maitreya12]

Yes it is embodiment of all of man kind fears and anger.
And it also knows the history of mankind
How does it being one means it can't also be the other?

Nooo, you’re still not addressing my points it’s the embodiment of the history of mankind’s despairs. It’s not “knowing” it’s history of despair. It is that history of despair hence why it’s referred to and shown through Adolla multiple times in the series.

Nothing here says embodying time of mankind.
You sent the same scan twice, you don't need to do that.

Here you go. History is time if ya didn’t know so clearly I do need to post these scabs multiple times.

And first
You are yet to prove adolla is universal in size.
And secondly, you still need to prove it is merging across all of time.
The evangelist came after humanity and not before humanity

Adolla merging with the whole universe necessarily entails it to be universal in size by default.
Sure here you go. It’s literally directly said to your face that the past and history of mankind pre cataclysm is merging with the real present world. The literal image of the past’s 3D world is merging with the present 2D world because Adolla’s despair carries the history of despair of mankind. It’s a merger across all of time because Adolla itself carries all of the history of mankind with it

Again merging concepts of the past which is humanity utter destruction which is the point of the merge does not mean has never meant merging across all of time.
You literally have no prove of merging across all of time
So again
You need the prove of universal adolla
Again you need prove that the times from.point 0 are merging.

It’s literally directly stated that the history of mankind’s past is merging with the present real world. So there we go, just proved it easy as can be. It’s merging all of time because Adolla itself is carrying all of time’s history of humanity and merging that image with the present real world’s image.

Adolla is universal size by default due to merging with the whole universe embodying the very concept of the world just adds salt to that notion since Adolla’s already encompassing the very idea of a “world” in of itself.

You have none aside hypothesis

The irony from this statement by you is not lost on me.

Okay how does this answer the question to the claim of you saying the merge was causing a tear in space

Because it’s literally stated that the tear in space was from Adolla and the real world cause of the cataclysm??? Like what are you even on about dude what is your point here? Are you disagreeing with the notion of space being teared in the first place?

The question was show me a tear happening during a merge.

Why do I need to show a tear happening during the merger if the tear only occurred when the merger failed?

We know nothing about the space in between

It’s a tear in space, that’s what we know about it. You have an issue with that you can argue with the manga not me.

They even say the other side of the tear in space is “another world” proving the two worlds are spatially separated from one another.

It simply appeared after a failed cataclysm

…yeah a tear in space appeared after the failed cataclysm which spatially separated the two worlds as they were not fully merged with each other…..what are you not getting here?

Again can you guys actually address the point

The irony of this statement by you is also not lost on me.

I said the art style changing is something I believe affects the whole universe.
And how that scales to AP is what I don't understand

Because Adolla merging with the universe causes that reality warping to occur and Shinra beat Adolla itself and the Evangelist given form…easy.

AP wise the only thing it ever affected was earth.
You know, burning a planet.

The burning of the planet and the changing of reality were both done by the exact same thing and mechanism. So I have no idea why you’re drawing a distinction between the two when they’re literally done through the exact same means.

For the love of god man the way the world turned into a ball of flames in the first place was because of mankind’s 3D history’s reality merging with the real 2D present world.

They’re actually the same ability so this arbitrary distinction you draw in the series is not found.

Adolla embodies the end result of and human despair which is the end of all life

Adolla embodies the history of mankind’s despair. Literally the history of mankind is that despair through the cycle of salvation and fear as Haumea pointed out. Because Haumea already knows the history of mankind as Adolla carries it within itself and the despair it embodies.

Adolla is not physically merging with the universe that is another head canon
We see the end result of a complete cataclysm you cannot keep ignoring that even if you want to.

Oop that’s real tough luck for you. Literally his reality gets changed in the first place is through Adolla merging with the real world’s universe and rewriting its physics.

Yeah we see the end result of Adolla…and we can see all of reality being warped because of it. So thanks for proving my point lol.

We see the end result and it was a planet burning that's all.

And all of reality being warped. Didn’t forget about that did you

If it was affecting the whole universe physically the entire universe would be burning.

….you mean like stars….which Adolla creates and warps lmao.

It affecting the whole universe physically would be to physically change the universe. Which it has and that you already accepted to. Not running away from that one.

That is not so hard to comprehend.
We have that adolla complete merge will end all life.
And we see the complete merge and it was just the planet burning
Meaning the merge was complete and the only thing it affected physically is the planet.

What’s not so hard to comprehend is the fact that Adolla burning up the planet doesn’t mean Adolla’s only burning up the planet. You can keep trying to hide and run away from that point all you’d like but that’s simply the fact of the matter that your making two separate claims here.

The fact that the whole universe is warped from 3D to 2D in the first place proves Adolla’s merger extends to the whole universe because it’s physically changed the whole universe.

Again I will reply to it in my post later

It is simply, we saw no stars been reality warped.

We see no stars being created so why are you assuming it’s created instead of consistently reality warped? Also you already conceded on the fact that the stars were previously reality warped by Adolla.

And adolla does things to fit human idea.
If the idea is the majority of humans believe we have shining blocks around the planet, then it can make it so.
That is also RW btw not just creation.

No it changes things to fit human perception just like it did to the moon. So why are you assuming the stars were created instead of changed when that’s what happened to the moon? You’re not staying consistent with the series, you’re making something else up.

BTW creating something through reality warping is still a creation ability which you first need to prove exists for Adolla and then prove it extends to an interstellar range since that’s the claim you’re making.

Anyway this will keep going in circles
And let me hold this
Adolla merge was complete and the end result of the merge is that all life would end. And we see the end result of the great cataclysm is the burning of the planet and not the universe.
if we have a statement that says the end result of the great cataclysm is the burning of the world in flames
if the end result of the merge aka the great cataclysm is also shown to be the earth on fire and not the universe. And also stated, many times about the planet becoming a sun.

Adolla merge was complete and we directly saw how the universe was changed from 3D to 2D. How the stars were warped across the universe. The goal of turning the planet into the sun doesn’t equate to the claim that Adolla is impacting only the planet. That is an unfounded and baseless assertion in the series.

Then there is no leap of logic that can say that adolla set the entire universe on fire. Since that is what happens after a merge.

I never said Adolla set the entire universe of fire I said it’s merging with the universe as evidence by how it fundamentally altered the universe from 3D to 2D in the first place.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Let me just use Arc reply
My point is still the same
Pi is still Pi, it was rounded up to a finite number.
That is my point so is there anything that disproves this? Cause I really don't see what you are arguing here.

It didn’t solve pi. It made it solvable.

“Pi became solvable” is literally said by Giovanni.
Anyone can solve pi in ff world.
Stop the cap.

Anyway, it looks like bae @Maitreya has handled that and everything else.

 

[Chrome]

In the official translation vulcan says pi is infinite so reaching the end is impossible, Giovanni then says that was before the cataclysm made it solvable clearly agreeing with infinite pi so why is this still a discussion.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

agreeing with infinite pi so why is this still a discussion.

disagreeing*
Just wanted to make sure

 

[Chrome]

disagreeing*
Just wanted to make sure

No he agrees pi used to be infinite pre-cataclysm

 

[Maitreya12]

“Pi became solvable” is literally said by Giovanni.
Anyone can solve pi in ff world.
Stop the cap.

Anyway, it looks like bae @Maitreya has handled that and everything else.

Only for u Bb

 

[Maitreya12]

Anyways I just wanna make this specific point clear because I know it’s kinda getting bogged down with the large walls of texts but…

Adolla’s despair doesn’t just carry the concept of despair within it but carries and embodies the very history of mankind’s despair within it.

In fact the current cataclysm being done is through merging the previous history of humanities despair with the present world. They even go so far as to show a 3D image of mankind’s past despair as the thing being cited as fusing the current 2D world, which is what’s causing the black flames in the first place.

It’s not just a merger of physical space but a merger of direct history and time as the past’s despair merges with the present’s.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

No he agrees pi used to be infinite pre-cataclysm

Oh that’s what you meant when you said that, okay then. Just clarifying.

 

[Deceived3596]

Since Pain didn't actually address my arguments, and seemingly has conceded on the fact that circles existing doesn't disprove Pi being affected on a universal level. Even appealing to Arc's comment which completely debunks their reasoning. I'll just say Common Deceived W and keep it pushing.

 

[Robo432343]

I feel like this is blatant 3-A but some ppl keep tryna downplay

 

[ObberGobb]

Tbh, I thought 3-A/Low 2-C had already been agreed upon and we had moved on to physical stats

 

[Dalesean027]

Why we're on page 7 idk but it seems any concrete arguments against this stopped 2 pages ago so I'd like to hear the others votes as of now with the AP scaling since it seems irrefutable from the current arguments presented as no real good reasons or evidences against were given imo

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I’ll try to get this thread moving.

@Maitreya is the OP good enough for new mods to look at with all that has been discussed?

 

[Maitreya12]

I’ll try to get this thread moving.

@Maitreya is the OP good enough for new mods to look at with all that has been discussed?

Yeah I think so. If you could that’d be great but Ant already made the call for other staff I believe.

All the major points have been discussed and most including staff consider Universal Range via abilities to be completely valid and now the discussion has been moved onto the scaling to physics which I responded here. We’re just waiting on input for this post:

Ok. So from what I understand it seems as though you have no issue with the hax abilities having a universal range to them and are more so focused on the scaling to physical stats discussion. So I’ll do my best to explain away any discrepancy or issue there may be as I believe I know the areas in which this point of confusion may lie and what best things to say to clear up that such area.

With that being said I’ll begin:

The bolded part is one of the area’s where they may be a misconception on what Adolla and the Evangelist is and what it’s doing because….the Evangelist is “personally” merging the worlds together. Let me explain:

What Adolla is, is simply the world of human ideation. It’s the point where all of the collective thoughts and concepts of humanity reach. What the cataclysm is, and all the reality warping that comes with it, is the byproduct of Adolla (the world of thoughts) merging with the real world. The reason it is a universal+ feat is because it is a physical merger of two completely separate worlds, right. That’s where I get the rating from.

Now you may ask what this has to do with the Evangelist and why it scales to her, and to that I say that the reason it scales is because the Evangelis=Adolla. They are the same being. The collective unconscious of humanity. The figure and form you see the Evangelist take is actually meant to be the representation of what humanity has envisioned “God” to be throughout the millennia.

(Real quick to further hammer in the point of Adolla and the Evangelist being the same being and used interchangeably, Haumea the messenger of the collective unconscious sees and directly stares down at the subconscious of humanity through Adolla’s eye. And when Haumea fused with the Evangelist and then subsequently removed herself from it, all that was left was Adolla and the despair it embodies itself, not even the human like form the Evangelist took on before. The same Adolla itself that Shinra completely negged casually.)

What the Evangelist (and Adolla) is itself is that despair you mention. The Evangelist is the very embodiment of despair (with Shinra subsequently being the very embodiment of the concept of Hope.) The despair that the Evangelist and Adolla embody is the driving force that pushes mankind to long for death.

So when Shinra takes down the Evangelist (and he also directly took down Adolla itself) he’s taking on the very thing that was physically merging with the world itself.

To put it simply: Adolla (the world of thoughts and perception)=The Evangelist (the embodiment of the collective unconscious itself given form)=The Cataclysm (the product of the Adolla world and the real world merging with each other.) They are all the same being.

So the reason it scales to stats is because the feat of the merger of two worlds itself would be physical feat and since the Evangelist is the embodiment of that thing that is performing the physical feat and Shinra is taking down the Adolla itself, it should scale to their stats as Shinra is taking down the thing that is “personally merging” the two worlds together as you describe it.

Not necessarily, or at least not really the kind of “prep” you may think it as since it’s pretty unconventional.

As explained Adolla is the final point of all imagination and where humanities’ collective unconscious ends up in. The reason Adolla and the Evangelist can’t just Willy nilly accomplish the feat on its own is because since Adolla is humanities collective unconscious, for it to perform it’s reality warping feats and bring about an end to the world, it needs humanities collective unconscious to desire that death unanimously.

In fact the reason the moon was warped into the shape seen in FF and soul eater was because it matched humanities perception of the moon. What Adolla’s doing is simply what the collective unconscious of humanity is desiring and perceives.

To make my point very simple: If, hypothetically speaking, I had a button that if I just pushed it the collective unconscious of all of humanity would uniformly desire death, then the reality warping feats that Adolla has shown would be done “on a whim” as you say. Just like that. It would just take the desire and despair for humanity for the feat to be performed which is the “prep” work you mentioned. It would just be convincing humanity to desire that death in the first place and death would come as explained in the series. (Hence the statement: “neither I or the Evangelist is God, they are a collective existence of Human consensus.”) That’s all.

The things such as the solving of pi and the pillars are simply used as bridges to connect the world of thoughts Adolla with the real world as they are completely and totally separated from one another. And even then these bridges come about through humanities collective emotions that all culminate into what Adolla is itself (the very concept of despair)

You’re correct, and it’s my job to present the information in a suitable enough manner with enough backing evidence so that the rating can feel comfortable enough to be applied to the profiles. If I didn’t do enough of a job in the beginning explaining why this scales to stats I apologize I was just more focused on the range and hax based abilities section since that was the more heated topic at the time and thought this discussion can be had after the range and hax section was over and settled with. Which it seems to be now.

I hope I explained everything adequately. Sorry for the long post I just wanted to make sure I got everything I wanted to say down and supply enough evidence and explanation for my argument.

 

[RoyGundam]

I feel like this is blatant 3-A but some ppl keep tryna downplay

3A via reality warping is as obvious as can be

 

[Deceived3596]

Ant already made the call for other staff I believe.

He called one calc member (@M3X_2.0), one retired mod (@KingTempest), two non-mods (@Deceived3596 and @Ionliosite) and two mods with evaluation rights (@DemonGodMitchAubin and @Damage3245).

We need more mods with evaluation rights to comment on this thread, i'd personally like to have @Planck69, @Elizhaa and @DarkDragonMedeus comment since they're more knowledgeable about this specific type of topic compared to your average mod.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Since Pain didn't actually address my arguments, and seemingly has conceded on the fact that circles existing doesn't disprove Pi being affected on a universal level. Even appealing to Arc's comment which completely debunks their reasoning. I'll just say Common Deceived W and keep it pushing.

In all my honest, this is still CM type 3 regardless if it is universal or not.

 

[Maitreya12]

I think if I recall correctly from the last thread….Mitch wants nothing to do with Fire Force scaling

Can’t blame him tbh

 

[ImmortalDread]

I think if I recall correctly from the last thread….Mitch wants nothing to do with Fire Force scaling

Can’t blame him tbh

I blame OP

 

[Deceived3596]

In all my honest, this is still CM type 3 regardless if it is universal or not.

**** Manipulation Type 3

 

[Maitreya12]

I blame OP

I blame me too

 

[Dalesean027]

Update the OP in its entirety with all the new evidences discussed and I will call Damage first do he can read the arguments from the last page and then I'll call Ant for pinging others with what the new OP has

 

[Arnoldstone18]

He called one calc member (@M3X_2.0), one retired mod (@KingTempest), two non-mods (@Deceived3596 and @Ionliosite) and two mods with evaluation rights (@DemonGodMitchAubin and @Damage3245).

We need more mods with evaluation rights to comment on this thread, i'd personally like to have @Planck69, @Elizhaa and @DarkDragonMedeus comment since they're more knowledgeable about this specific type of topic compared to your average mod.

just called DDM on his wall

 

[ImmortalDread]

**** Manipulation Type 3

Just saying since people scale it to physical stats, and if then, nothing suggests low 2-C, rather 3-A range

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Could I get a TLDR summary of the proposed topic?

 

[Dalesean027]

Could I get a TLDR summary of the proposed topic?

Pretty sure @Maitreya is working on it rn to give so sorry for the wait

 

[Maitreya12]

Could I get a TLDR summary of the proposed topic?

Aight I’ll give a run down of the status of the thread’s proposition. I’ll try to keep it as short and concise as I can.

Proposition 1: Adolla’s abilities of reality warping affects the Fire Force verse on a universal scale.

Evidence can be found here(1), here(2), here(3), and here(4).

Proposition 1 was mostly agreed upon including by other staff members with very little opposition. The list of those who agreed can be found right here.

Proposition 2: The abilities scale to stats because Adolla (a separate world of thoughts) is physically merging with the Fire Force world and thus causing the reality warping to occur throughout the world in the first place. This scales to stats because Shinra is taking down Adolla itself and it’s physical embodiment given form.

Evidence and citation for each claim can be found here(1), here(2), here(3), here(4), and here(5).

This proposition we are currently waiting evaluation on and more opinions from staff on the matter.

Note: if you’d like a more detailed explained for each proposition I recommend these(1) posts(2) for proposition 1 and this post for proposition 2.

Otherwise, that’s all.

 

[narutosage15]

Only for u Bb

This should be illegal

 

[Antvasima]

Could I get a TLDR summary of the proposed topic?

Pretty sure @Maitreya is working on it rn to give so sorry for the wait

@Pain_to12

Are you willing and able to help out with this as well?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Aight I’ll give a run down of the status of the thread’s proposition. I’ll try to keep it as short and concise as I can.

Proposition 1: Adolla’s abilities of reality warping affects the Fire Force verse on a universal scale.

Evidence can be found here(1), here(2), here(3), and here(4).

Proposition 1 was mostly agreed upon including by other staff members with very little opposition. The list of those who agreed can be found right here.

Proposition 2: The abilities scale to stats because Adolla (a separate world of thoughts) is physically merging with the Fire Force world and thus causing the reality warping to occur throughout the world in the first place. This scales to stats because Shinra is taking down Adolla itself and it’s physical embodiment given form.

Evidence and citation for each claim can be found here(1), here(2), here(3), here(4), and here(5).

This proposition we are currently waiting evaluation on and more opinions from staff on the matter.

Note: if you’d like a more detailed explained for each proposition I recommend these(1) posts(2) for proposition 1 and this post for proposition 2.

Otherwise, that’s all.

Are you willing and able to help out with this as well?

A summary has been written

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[ImmortalDread]

In order to maintain a balance of perspectives, it is important for the opposing party, referred to as “Pain's side,” to provide a summary of their viewpoint in addition to the statement made by the OP

 

[InfiniteDay]

In order to maintain a balance of perspectives, it is important for the opposing party, referred to as “Pain's side,” to provide a summary of their viewpoint in addition to the statement made by the OP

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Pain_to12

Are you willing and able to help out with this as well?

Okay, I will write a summary in some hours.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for helping out.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose I agree with universal range and neutral on AP but leaning towards agreeing as well. My thoughts the same as Clover Dragon and most other staff.

 

[Maitreya12]

Agree: @Maitreya @Arnoldstone18 @CloverDragon03 (agrees with universal range + AP as well) @Deceived3596 (agrees with universal range) @Alexander @InfiniteDay @PowerToScale (agrees with universal range) @narutosage15 @CurrySenpai @Dalesean027 (agrees with universal range + AP as well) @Shmooply @Halkum145 @chosen @SupremeGilgamesh @Shey (agrees with universal range) @Greatsage13th @Zoldyck59 @AKUTO123 @Helestias @Therefir (agrees with universal range) @eliaspower1234 @Damage3245 (agrees with universal range) @ObberGobb @Jasonsith (agrees with universal range) @RoyGundam (agrees with universal range) @Excel616 @TauanVictor (agree with universal range) @DarkDragonMedeus (agreed with universal range)

Neutral: @CloverDragon03 (neutral, leaning towards agree for physical stats) @Deceived3596 (neutral/leaning towards agree on physical stats) @Dalesean027 (neutral, leaning towards agree on physical stats) @RandomGuy2345 @Shey (neutral on physical stats) @PowerToScale (neutral on physical stats) @TauanVictor (neutral on physical stats) @DarkDragonMedeus (neutral, leaning towards agree on scaling to physical stats)

Disagree: @Arc7Kuroi @Pain_to12 @ImmortalDread

Folks….it’s happening

Universal Fire Force is real!