The End All Be All of Fire Force Revision Threads!

[CurrySenpai]

Actually nah, this is a well-made CRT and I feel everything was clarified pretty well. I doubt any NEW counter arguments will come so put me down as agreeing.

 

[Alexander]

The ones that Arthur fights on are. Since he’s not that far into outer space when he fights Dragon.

that does not mean that the stars were in the range of the earth, remember that the physics of the universe at that point had already been altered by the collective unconsciousness. Obviously they will be closer.

 

[PrinceofPein]

but tell me again what were the points of other threads? they were all the same except that this one explains them better.
And all you've done is deny it, and use such bad logic that... oh my god, I can't forget when you said that apparently the stars are in range of the earth.

You should read the manga then cause I have no words for you

 

[Alexander]

You should read the manga then cause I have no words for you

the same for you i will say.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Anyway you guys should stop clogging up the thread, when anyone is free, they will make a counter-post, till then lets keep the thread clean and no derailing

 

[Maitreya12]

You should read the manga then cause I have no words for you

Don’t just assume people don’t “read the manga” just cause their position is different than yours. That’s just being utterly condescending and unproductive to the conversation.

I’ve read fire force. I love the series it’s great. My position remains the same due to the presence of evidence for it. That’s all anyone argues for.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

that does not mean that the stars were in the range of the earth, remember that the physics of the universe at that point had already been altered by the collective unconsciousness. Obviously they will be closer.

Or or or or and put your listening cap on, they were so close that for all intents and purpose they were in the range of earth. Aka pain just meant they were super close to earth…

Anyways I don’t think I’ll have any issues with the range for adolla, but I’ll try to comment on the rest soon.

 

[chosen]

Seems fine
Put me at agree

 

[Alexander]

Or or or or and put your listening cap on, they were so close that for all intents and purpose they were in the range of earth. Aka pain just meant they were super close to earth…

the same thing i say above

 

[narutosage15]

I agree for 3A/L2C range for adolla @Maitreya put me in the agreement section

 

[PrinceofPein]

Don’t just assume people don’t “read the manga” just cause their position is different than yours. That’s just being utterly condescending and unproductive to the conversation.

I’ve read fire force. I love the series it’s great. My position remains the same due to the presence of evidence for it. That’s all anyone argues for.

It can sound condenscending for all you care, but someone who thinks the stars that authur was destroying in the fight against dragon is not close to the earth, needs to read the manga probably again but this time they should read it properly. Simple as that

 

[CurrySenpai]

Here we go again........ Can we try our best to stay civil this time so we don't end up on 5 pages like the last thread.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Aight guys simmer down

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I agree and I've always found it unreasonable for the universe to be 5b.

This is funny

 

[Dalesean027]

Off work now I can take my place here but so far I agree on the range

 

[Alexander]

This is funny

no, funny is telling jokes and memes. like this: people who see soul eater: it's very good soul eater has fanservice and the story is very...vague fireforce: It is very bad it has fanservice and the story is good and interesting me: yes, as you can tell, hypocrisy.

 

[Alexander]

Off work now I can take my place here but so far I agree on the range

why not the ap?

 

[Dalesean027]

why not the ap?

Neutral on it but that said while Arthur and Dragon are fighting in space they were most certainly are quite the distance away when they reach the stars not instellar or anything but they're easily at least several hundreds of meters away from the moon so while not too crazy they did move quite a bit

 

[ImmortalDread]

This is what the fire force universe used to look like. Before the cataclysm, the fire force universe looked entirely like ours. Our real life 3D selves. Until the cataclysm brought on by Adolla turned the universe into what we see. An anime/manga style away from its original real life style.

This is not a universe, rather a world.

In fact, in every(1) single shot (2) of space (3) we get (4). In which we can even see galaxies being visible in the background, we can see that the universe is in 2D anime art-style. Real life people have even been carried over from 3D to 2D due to this shift caused by the cataclysm.

• This is a bit stretched. You assumed it is a universe, while none of the images said this.
• This section is literally way out of context. You are required to add more context than this.

This feat undeniably proves that Adolla’s reach is in the universal range. And not some arbitrary cutting off point. To further support this notion, it is outright stated that the cataclysm is the will of the universe. Whatever reality warping is happening is happening to the universe and not some arbitrary multi solar system cutting off point like we currently have it.

Where is here universal range? Where he out righted stated that the cataclysm is the will of the universe?

To suggest that Adolla has some sort of cutting off point in its reach of merging with the universe is not only baseless but also contradictory to the series itself. As well as brings in confused and needless questions such as if Adolla does have a cutting off point at multi solar system levels then the other galaxies in the universe should be visibly in a completely different art style than the rest of the world. But that clearly isn’t the case.

You used the same evidence twice, and once again, this is a world, not a universe.

Universal Fire Force Feat #2: This feat’s purpose is to further show how Adolla impacting the universe is entirely consistent with the series while the counter position is entirely inconsistent.

The second feat in question is once again Adolla reality warping the universe to change the stars from actual stars to little block stars in order to match the human perception of them.

Where is “universe here”. It is clearly stated to be “World”.

With this feat in question, not only is it directly shown to us that the universe is being impacted by Adolla’s cataclysm. But it’s outright stated(1) multiple times(2) as well.

• In these screenshots, the world and the universe are two separated terms. So, you are using world as universe argument is truly false.
• Also, law manipulation or physics manipulation, but not really in universal level.

Not only that, but interestingly enough, this statement is made in chapter 234. The feat in question happens in chapter 235. While this other statement supporting the notion of Adolla affecting the whole universe happened in 247.

• You used the same evidence once again.
• You used the same evidence once again ?!
• You used the same evidence once again ?!?

Why, you are repeating the same evidences?

Why this scales to stats:
Thus far what has been shown has been in regards to hax for the character. All the feats performed has been due to hax on a universal range and not stats. So why should this scale to state? And the answer should also be very simple with the entirely qualifying feat to support the notion.

All the reality warping done in the series is due to Adolla’s world merging with the universe. This feat in question should qualify as a Low 2-C feat due to the merging of two worlds

For reference: Adolla=Evangelist (Adolla given form)=cataclysm (the product of Adolla merging with the universe).

This is world destruction, not universe destruction.

 

[Maitreya12]

This is not a universe, rather a world.

The “world” is in a completely different art style than what we can visibly see in the Fire Force Universe including galaxies.

• This is a bit stretched. You assumed it is a universe, while none of the images said this.
• This section is literally way out of context. You are required to add more context than this.

• Multiple images I’ve posted have directed stated the universe rather than “world.” But that wasn’t the point of the section. The point section was to show the universe in Fire Force is depicted as 2-D while originally we can see that was not the art style of reality.
• The second section is literally as I describe it. The woman shown in the image is the same woman in the manga. She carried over from the last cataclysm. There was literally a whole chapter of a real life woman talking to the audience about how disgusted she was with humanity. Chapter 255 is the chapter.

Where is here universal range? Where he out righted stated that the cataclysm is the will of the universe?

The fact that the universe is in a completely different art style? But yes that statement does in fact support the notion that the cataclysm is Adolla merging with the whole universe rather than just some arbitrary multi solar system range.

You used the same evidence twice, and once again, this is a world, not a universe.

The world is shown to be in a completely different art-style than the Fire Force Universe. So unless for whatever reason the fire force universe was 2-D but only the “world” was 3-D. Which would have to be the default position you are taking Dread. The art style of the world matches the universe.

Where is “universe here”. It is clearly stated to be “World”.

World can mean universe Dread this is known. And considering more than just the earth is getting reality warped, “world” can only be taken as meaning “universe.” Otherwise usage of the term “world” doesn’t fit.

• In these screenshots, the world and the universe are two separated terms. So, you are using world as universe argument is truly false.

World can = universe Dread. I made this clear in the opening post.

World can only mean 1 of three things. “Society,” “planet,” or “universe.” And considering in the very statement the character is talking about the stars and the moon alongside the earth. The usage of the meaning “universe” is only applicable to this statement. The physics of the “universe” have been altered. Not the physics of just the “planet.”

Which also matches up with his previous statement as well. Consistency is key here after all.

• Also, law manipulation or physics manipulation, but not really in universal level.

Why. No reasoning was given for this position and it directly contradicts the series as well.

• You used the same evidence once again.
• You used the same evidence once again ?!
• You used the same evidence once again ?!?

So what
So what
So what

If the evidence is substantial for proving the point then it can be used to assert the positions made.

Why, you are repeating the same evidences?

Because there’s nothing wrong with them and it demonstrates my position???

This is world destruction, not universe destruction.

World=universe Dread. This is a power scaling conversation had time and time again.

 

[CloverDragon03]

“World” can mean “universe”, calling It “world” is far from an anti-statement

 

[ImmortalDread]

Before, I reply to arguments, @Maitreya can you send all raw scans to all scans you have sent as far?

 

[Maitreya12]

Sure. Here’s one of the raw scans that directly uses the kanji “universe.”

And here are the raws for the other statement as well.

 

[narutosage15]

This is not a universe, rather a world.

He was basically explaining that the Fire force world looked liked ours before it guy changed to a more 2D like scenery which includes things like the stars galaxies and all that which Dr Giovanni statement as a supporting evidence to the range of adolla

This is a bit stretched. You assumed it is a universe, while none of the images said this.

• This section is literally way out of context. You are required to add more context than this.

Where is here universal range? Where he out righted stated that the cataclysm is the will of the universe?

The universal range in question is the fact that the adolla could affect structures far beyond the planet

You used the same evidence twice, and once again, this is a world, not a universe.

Where is “universe here”. It is clearly stated to be “World”.

Where did you see world? It was stated to affect the universe twice and even if it was called “world” it shouldn’t be far fetched to say that the two words can be used interchangeably and this is a refutation to the range of adolla, world doesn’t automatically equate to planet in a fictional basis

• In these screenshots, the world and the universe are two separated terms. So, you are using world as universe argument is truly false
• .
  • Also, law manipulation or physics manipulation, but not really in universal level.

World and universe aren’t two separated terms where are you getting that from?

• • You used the same evidence once again.
  • You used the same evidence once again ?!
  • You used the same evidence once again ?!?
• Why, you are repeating the same evidences?
  
  This is world destruction, not universe destruction.

You’ve yet to provide a concrete rebuttal as to why the context of the feat is limited to planetary whereas substantial evidence as being shown that the range of adolla is universal and world doesn’t equate or translate to planet in the verse

 

[Alexander]

Before, I reply to arguments, @Maitreya can you send all raw scans to all scans you have sent as far?

if they say ''hoshi'' then they mean the earth, but if they say ''sekai'' then they mean the universe in general.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Sure. Here’s one of the raw scans that directly uses the kanji “universe.”

And here are the raws for the other statement as well.

He uses the kanji for planet and universe in the first scan “this planet too, the universe as well…” The second scan uses the kanji for world “this world’s…”

 

[azontr]

@Maitreya my son, you did it.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

if they say ''hoshi'' then they mean the earth, but if they say ''sekai'' then they mean the universe in general.

No that is objectively false.

Hoshi can refer to planets and stars. Sekai means world, it can refer to a universe but it seldomly does, the majority of the time it’s talking about a world like earth.

Anyways I’ll be typing up my response now.

 

[CloverDragon03]

He uses the kanji for planet and universe in the first scan “this planet too, the universe as well…” The second scan uses the kanji for world “this world’s…”

But I don’t think you can say for certain what “world” means, it can be planet or universe, especially when both are mentioned in the first scan

 

[ImmortalDread]

if they say ''hoshi'' then they mean the earth, but if they say ''sekai'' then they mean the universe in general.

No thanks. Sekai means world. Alexander, I am not debating on this.

 

[Alexander]

He uses the kanji for planet and universe in the first scan “this planet too, the universe as well…” The second scan uses the kanji for world “this world’s…”

you are referring to this?

 

[ImmortalDread]

But I don’t think you can say for certain what “world” means, it can be planet or universe, especially when both are mentioned in the first scan

So you are suggesting the existence of two universes?

 

[Alexander]

No thanks. Sekai means world. Alexander, I am not debating on this.

but universe is also a synonym, just as ruining is synonymous with destroying, or that countless and endless is synonymous with infinity.

 

[CloverDragon03]

So you are suggesting the existence of two universes?

What? No, I’m saying that “world” can mean “planet” or “universe.”

 

[Maitreya12]

He uses the kanji for planet and universe in the first scan “this planet too, the universe as well…” The second scan uses the kanji for world “this world’s…”

Ok so that means the first panel matches up with the English translation since he says both planet and universe there as well.

The second one demonstrates how world=universe in this context because he talks about the stars and the moon which fall beyond just the “planet.”

 

[Alexander]

So you are suggesting the existence of two universes?

adolla is not a universe, it is the collective unconsciousness of humanity. although of course, maybe another universe exists if you consider the world of particles where shinra travels through time as one.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Guys, I won't argue over this. The scan explicitly showed and separated two words: World and Universe. And it even said matter of scale, unless you are making the biggest assumption that both means “universes”, then you have to show evidence for this.

But it makes 1000000% sense that it was referring world as in planet since the first scan of OP showed it perfectly how world looks like.

I won't argue based on assumptions or "Welp, mAybe it is a universe".

 

[PrinceofPein]

Has any of these points been addressed, I mean it took me days to come up with this from a previous thread.

FIRST
I will be addressing the whole "Jiovanni saying the universe" thing.
Like I said that's flowering, let's look at the context closely, From chapter 208. We have Haumea calling an assembly of all the white clads, in which jiovanni is part, Then she explicitly said, "bring fiery doom to this planet", Then she said the great cataclysm as started and there is no stopping it anymore. Then we have the whole yona speech explaining how he built the world for adolla. Then in chapter 234, we have a few of the white goons around still discussing. Literally, before Jiovanni made that statement Sumire and yona explained that great cataclysm simply ends humankind. And since they are the oldest pillars and withnessed the first cataclysm, they are sure as hell more knowledgeable. And also right before jiovanni said that, Haumea said the conclusion is death, in reference to yona's statement and charon's about mankind. Then we have Jiovanni making the statement "Human's heading for death, for destructions........... it is true of this planet, it is true of the universe"
Combining previous contexts, jiovanni words become flowery like I already said, and the way it was said was also flowery. so please stop this entire thing about his words been valid.
Anyway, to finish things, keep reading, you have a long way to go. Argue with scans not me.
And your beloved jiovanni said this about the great cataclysm and not flowery at all

Also he said this "Will turn this planet into a sun"

SECONDLY
Adolla is simply going to affect earth
I mean here are so many statements/showings saying that, and there are more.
1. Fiery doom to this planet

2. This planet will become a world of flames

3. turn this planet into a flaming sun

4. then this planet will become a world of fire

5. Jiovanni said "Will turn this planet into a sun"

6. Now grant this planet salvation

7. What the hell is happening to our planet
e.t.c.

THIRD
The great cataclysm is not adolla merging with the universe or something as that is what the OP implies, The great cataclysm is adolla merging with earth and giving birth to a new sun.
Here are the scans.
1. We will cause a great cataclysm.... turn this planet into a world of flame once more.... That is our mission..... for that purpose alone we

2. Light up the lost souls.... scorch the earth.... turn this planet into a flaming sun

3. Then this world will be a second sun

4. You want to make this planet? A STAR

5. Converting this planet into a sun

6. Too long to type, open it

7. the current sun was from a great cataclysm from the past

8. So we can light up this star (poor charon)
e.t.c.

FOURTH
Adolla and perception shenanigan, and despair. The entire adolla is simply the end of humans, as all things come to an end and that is what despair is
1. Send mankind back to the flame all in accordance with the evangelist will

2. we will turn all humans beings to flame and cover the earth in the great flame of fire

3. They wish for death
Three separate scans in that one

4. Extinction of mankind

5. consumed the land in which humanity lived

6. The world of perception and reality has become one and about half the planet is in flames

7. Everything in this world from humans all the way to the stars heads toward destrution the second they come to being

8. The human world is on its way to destruction

9. Too long to type

10. Too long to type

11. Amidst all those stars and planet, I saw the danger ours was facing

12. The human race is done for

13. Our world will unite with adolla and the planet will be burn to cinders

14. Hibana is cute and smart

15. Our world will be destroyed

16. Too long to type

17. Planet's subconscious

18. Humanity desires its own extermination and adolla is bring it to pass
e.t.c.


FIFTH
The great cataclysm completion is not anyway affecting the universe as thats what the OP entails, but rather earth alone.

1. Great cataclysm completion, and simply planet of flames

2. The birth of second sun

3. The great cataclysm now completed

4. The great cataclysm completion again

5. And the planet of water became the star.

6. The earth has become the sun

7. Only ones left on earth

8. Second sun

9. To the planet of black despair

10. Look at this planet
https://scans-hot.leanbox.us/manga/Fire-Brigade-Of-Flames/0296-009.png

11. With the completion of the great cataclysm, this planet was made into a sun.
e.t.c.

SIXTH
If this goes through, everyone's mother becomes 3-A, so many anti-feat.


SUMMARY
With the context provided and the fact that jiovanni referred to great cataclysm when he made that statement you are trying to use to upgrade them. He meant humanity and this becomes flowery.
Believe me the verse/adolla is consistently tier 5, and adolla is not AP related at all.
Like not even one showing of adolla can be equated to AP.
Now way in over 60 statements vs one misguided statement from a creep that you took well out of contexts. And I cannot stress this enough "Argue with the scans and not me"

 

[Maitreya12]

Guys, I won't argue over this. The scan explicitly showed and separated two words: World and Universe. And it even said matter of scale, unless you are making the biggest assumption that both means “universes”, then you have to show evidence for this.

But it makes 1000000% sense that it was referring world as in planet since the first scan of OP showed it perfectly how world looks like.

I won't argue based on assumptions or "Welp, mAybe it is a universe".

This isn’t an assumption Dread.

The first scan explicitly says “world” AND “universe.” So idk what your issue is with that there.

Ok Dread. Now that you have taken the position that only the “planet” was reality warped, please explain how all visible space in Fire Force is in 2D anime/manga style as opposed to realistic 3D style if only the “planet” was warped?

Because you have now just made a big assumption.

 

[Alexander]

Guys, I won't argue over this. The scan explicitly showed and separated two words: World and Universe. And it even said matter of scale, unless you are making the biggest assumption that both means “universes”, then you have to show evidence for this.

But it makes 1000000% sense that it was referring world as in planet since the first scan of OP showed it perfectly how world looks like.

I won't argue based on assumptions or "Welp, mAybe it is a universe".

Again, you don't know synonyms then. world, listen, world can mean universe, because planet and world don't have the same meaning. And in this context, it makes more sense that it was the universe and not the planet, because seriously, it was made narratively clear that adolla is not limited to earth.