Tears of the Kingdom Spoilers Thread

[Dalesean027]

Because it is a new universe. That's why literally nothing matches up with any other game. And why not scale them to the explosives Bokoblins love using so much?

Bro...

 

[Tyloxtus]

TotK is literally more inconsistent than ever. Why are you still trying to match it up to canon lore?

 

[Chariot190]

Because it is a new universe. That's why literally nothing matches up with any other game. And why not scale them to the explosives Bokoblins love using so much?

it's a new uni-

This is how I know you're new to Zelda, this is like the 5th time we've gone through "this is totally a new uni bros" over the past 30 years. This ain't even the worst offender given they make it blatant it's apart of the same timeline and we're even told it's the same timeline (just ten fucktillion years in the future t the point it converged).

TotK is literally more inconsistent than ever. Why are you still trying to match it up to canon lore?

We don't gotta do anything, it's literally hard confirmed by 3 different sources. There's inconsistencies between AlttP and OOT Brother, doesn't mean it ain't the same canon (And in TOTK's case, it's not inconsistencies, but rather gaps in information). Fortunately, TOTK scales entirely off its own shit so we don't have to make anything scale, but all the same.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Inconsistent how? The game is set so far after any other game that it doesn't matter what came before it, we even have a statement that the previous games are so far before any of this that they're all just muddled together in a general era of myths and legends.

Plus the lore before this struggles to have all the games match up a lot too, OOT was originally meant to the the events leading into LTTP but they ****** it up so bad they had say to retcon it into being the events before the events leading into LTTP.

 

[Dust_Collector]

On god the inconsistencies between ALTTP and OOT are legit worse then the ones from TOTK

 

[Tyloxtus]

This is how I know you're new to Zelda, this is like the 5th time we've gone through "this is totally a new uni bros" over the past 30 years. This ain't even the worst offender given they make it blatant it's apart of the same timeline and we're even told it's the same timeline (just ten fucktillion years in the future t the point it converged).

We don't gotta do anything, it's literally hard confirmed by 3 different sources. There's inconsistencies between AlttP and OOT Brother, doesn't mean it ain't the same canon (And in TOTK's case, it's not inconsistencies, but rather gaps in information). Fortunately, TOTK scales entirely off its own shit so we don't have to make anything scale, but all the same.

There ARE Zelda games that are a new universe. Both Hyrule Warriors games have done this. Nobody has once said all timelines have converged. In fact Hyrule Warriors establishes this would threaten the timeline itself. Just because it happens tons of time in the future doesn't mean you can handwave all the things that don't match up to the lore, like the fact that if all timelines converged the Earth would be flooded, and how Zora and Rito can exist simultaneously, and the fact that the Hylian Shield can be broken.

If those sources say verbatim that the BotW timeline is canon, I will be pleasantly surprised because I have looked myself and never once found a statement like that.

 

[Chariot190]

There's legit like 30-40 references to past game's events (excluding dlc and easter egg items). From the basic Temple of Time, places ripped straight from Skyward, Fi being a thing, the breach of Demise being where Demise emerged in the SS lore, straight up name dropping the Hero of Time in a canon cutscene, to even minor stuff like SALT referencing how in the past the world was covered in water.

We have master works stating the old games did happen, but so far in the past they're either forgotten or barely even a myth, we have an offocial Nintendo timeline putting BOTW in the same timeline but after every ther game, and we even have Eiji himself saying it's canon and part of the timeline, but after everything.

Shit do be canon, the only fucky is the Zonai (which personally I'd put after every other game too, meaning there's gap at play here, but that isn't anything new, ive lived through 4 cases of huge lore gaps that eventually got filled in).

You know what's absolutely ******? The Zelda timeline was so backwards that before HH in 2012, we only had TWO timelines, a downfall timeline? Wasn't a thing, everyone just kinda put the other games wherever because **** if we knew (And Nintendo making a downfall timeline was legit an asspull).

Reminder the origin of Link's hat was Minish Cap, until SS said nah **** you. And the whole shit with Vaati lmao let alone FSA, FSA alone made people think the vaati games were a whole different timeline.

There ARE Zelda games that are a new universe.

And? This isn't one of those times.

Both Hyrule Warriors games have done this.

And? An alternate dimension game (which is still stated to have ties to the main timeline anyway so shrug), is not the same as Nintendo going "lmao it's the same timeline lol". In fact, the ONLY reason HW isn't main canon, is due to a statement from Eiji, meanwhile Eiji himself has said BOTW is canon to the main timeline, just after everything else.

Nobody has once said all timelines have converged.

Except Nintendo, takes place at the end of all 3, and BOTW makes it a point to mention explicit things from all 3 timelines.

In fact Hyrule Warriors establishes this would threaten the timeline itself.

Not what I meant by converge, just that it's been so long they all basically happened. And what? Why are you using shit you LITERALLY just basically said was a different canon, to effect main canon?

Just because it happens tons of time in the future doesn't mean you can handwave all the things that don't match up to the lore,

My brother in christ, do you not comprehend the fact that it takes place so far in the future is LITERALLY Nintendo's excuse for all that? If you have a problem with it, well, don't know what to tell ya besides that's just how it is, blame Nintendo.

like the fact that if all timelines converged the Earth would be flooded,

And obviously, a shittillion years later, that's no longer the case. And notably, BOTW and TOTK actually make note of how the world USED to be covered in water so, that's legit noted, referenced and stated to no longer be the case.

and how Zora and Rito can exist simultaneously,

Evolution be fucky. We already know the Zora can evolve fast as ****, and have done so at least 4 times in history. Also not an argument, this doesnt change the fact we know it's canon, this is legit nitpicking something that can legit be handwaved due to how often those mf's change. And hell, you could be 100% right, that wouldn't change the fact BOTW is still same canon.

and the fact that the Hylian Shield can be broken.

So? It's called gameplay bro, notice how the MS breaks all the time in game (20 strikes lol), yet when you fight Ganon it WONT break? (Not withstanding the HS is the most durable thing in the entire game for the very sake of conveying how durable it is).

If those sources say verbatim that the BotW timeline is canon, I will be pleasantly surprised because I have looked myself and never once found a statement like that.

Look harder then

 

[Dust_Collector]

"In books like the recently released The Legend of Zelda Encyclopedia, we revealed where each Zelda game fell on a timeline and how their stories related, but we didn't do that for Breath of the Wild. There is a reason for that. With this game, we saw just how many players were playing in their own way and had those reactions I just mentioned. We realised that people were enjoying imagining the story that emerged from the fragmentary imagery we were providing. If we defined a restricted timeline, then there would be a definitive story, and it would eliminate the room for imagination, which wouldn't be as fun. We want players to be able to continue having fun imagining this world even after they are finished with the game, so, this time, we decided that we would avoid making clarifications. I hope that everyone can find their own answer, in their own way."

- https://www.eurogamer.net/eiji-aonu...the-wilds-timeline-placing-must-remain-secret

 

[Dust_Collector]

Not even sure why inconsistencies with the lore is even a major point (Not like the inconsistencies are that major), this is the same series that established Ganondorfs backstory in ALTTP only to completely change it as soon as his next appearance rolled around (The only thing they kept the same was him being a thief).

Hell I could write an essay on how Nintendo tried to make OOT the events that were mentioned in the backstory to ALTTP only to have so many inconsistencies that there was no chance in hell it could be the imprisoning war like they intended it to be.

 

[Tyloxtus]

"In books like the recently released The Legend of Zelda Encyclopedia, we revealed where each Zelda game fell on a timeline and how their stories related, but we didn't do that for Breath of the Wild. There is a reason for that. With this game, we saw just how many players were playing in their own way and had those reactions I just mentioned. We realised that people were enjoying imagining the story that emerged from the fragmentary imagery we were providing. If we defined a restricted timeline, then there would be a definitive story, and it would eliminate the room for imagination, which wouldn't be as fun. We want players to be able to continue having fun imagining this world even after they are finished with the game, so, this time, we decided that we would avoid making clarifications. I hope that everyone can find their own answer, in their own way."

- https://www.eurogamer.net/eiji-aonu...the-wilds-timeline-placing-must-remain-secret

That confirms it's noncanon, it doesn't confirm the timelines converged.

 

[Dust_Collector]

That confirms it's noncanon, it doesn't confirm the timelines converged.

???

The man basically said they just chose not to define it's placement in the timeline to let players imagination run wild, it's him saying "yeah it's canon but we won't say when it takes place", if they wanted the new games to be their own new universe they would make it clear that's the case. Not to mention you haven't done a good job explaining why TOTK not matching 1 to 1 with previous lore makes it non canon/a new universe.

 

[Chariot190]

That confirms it's noncanon, it doesn't confirm the timelines converged.

It confirms they're deliberately leaving things vague and gaps of info so the fans can use their imagination to fill in the gaps themselves
Idk how the hell you get "noncanon" from that, while ignoring the metric fuckton of info that says it IS canon, just some trillion years later.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Evolution be fucky. We already know the Zora can evolve fast as ****, and have done so at least 4 times in history

For the Rito-Zora, it should be noted that the Adult Timeline had the Rito revolve back into the Zora within 100 years and Rito are shown to exists in the Child timeline through TPHD mural art. So them just coming into being through evolution isn't that wild.

Especially when you have the Zora stone tablets that said Princess Ruto existed before the Divine Beasts did, meaning its been over 20,000 years since OoT happened from the perspective of BotW.

 

[Qawsedf234]

TWO timelines, a downfall timeline? Wasn't a thing, everyone just kinda put the other games wherever because **** if we knew (And Nintendo making a downfall timeline was legit an asspull).

The superior format is the Vaati timeline split tbh

 

[Dust_Collector]

The superior format is the Vaati timeline split tbh

Broke: The only timeline split is from Ocarina of Time
Woke: There's a timeline split from the bad ending of Minish Cap

 

[Qawsedf234]

Broke: The only timeline split is from Ocarina of Time
Woke: There's a timeline split from the bad ending of Minish Cap

Broke Timeline: No explanation of Ganon's trident. Ruining all lore.

Woke Timeline: Perfect continuity and lote of Trident. Allowing seamless story progression.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Okay what’d I miss and what do I have to disprove.
@Dust_Collector you're my ride-or-die you fill me in

 

[Dust_Collector]

Okay what’d I miss and what do I have to disprove.
@Dust_Collector you're my ride-or-die you fill me in

Uh, some dude thinks BOTW/TOTK are their own universe because something something inconsistencies with the lore. That's about all you missed.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Uh, some dude thinks BOTW/TOTK are their own universe because something something inconsistencies with the lore. That's about all you missed.

…
Alright Caleb. Remember that you’re modern Cal now. This is the chill Cal era. This isn’t 2018. You can’t be ignant to people anymore.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Also. Again. Sidon and the rest of the Sages just scale to Ganon. Even discounting AoC. The original Sages, while they got overwhelmed, still…won that fight thanks to Rauru’s sacrifice. They were able to take damage and not die. Plus the new sages still do battle. Let’s not bring the Tifa Sephiroth argument back.

 

[TheGatememer]

I'm hesitant on scaling the sages to Ganon. They didn't just get overwhelmed, they literally couldn't do anything to him, which is supported by the fact that the new Sages all got knocked out for the rest of the fight from a simple shockwave. Also, I think the new sages were mostly fighting the Phantoms, rather than Ganon himself

 

[Chariot190]

The original Sages, while they got overwhelmed, still…won that fight thanks to Rauru’s sacrifice.

While I agree the new lads can downscale with the funny pebbles, at least to an extent (They def ain't scaling in full, see what Gate bro said, but they're at least not a trillion times weaker,).
The original sages ain't shit.
We have them straight up say everything they did was useless, the Goron said Ganon just facetanked his most powerful attacks, the Zora said her best defenses didn't do shit.

All we know about the original sages was that they fought Ganon, everything they did was useless, Ganon is shown to be unphased while they're all on death's door (with one literally dying, and I aint talking about the bootleg light sage) and the only reason they got out of there was funny goat killed himself to seal Ganon. They didn't win, they lost badly and goat man forced a draw.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Anyways my suggestion is that if we make a profile for the original champions we just add a note on the bottom that says "Note: For the sake of this index showings from both BotW and AoC are used" or something like that.

 

[Tyloxtus]

I should clarify, I don't want to downplay Sidon. He's my favorite BotW character. I would love for him to be absolutely broken, I'm just going off what I've seen in the game. As a serious debater I would prefer if his rating made a ton of sense.

Also I'm kinda not that smart IRL so

 

[Chariot190]

His feats in game include super casual tier 8 feat and probably best LS feat in Zelda in general that isn't a random statement/moon related.
Him and Link kicking the shit out of an amped Like Like.
Him and Link kicking the shit out of zonai constructs including at least 1 captain.
Him and Link fighting a temple boss
(Do note, just because Link is helping, doesn't mean Link did all the work, it's pretty evident he pulled his weight based off character statements and even reactions such as from his wife, other Zora, and oddly enough, at the end of the game Tulin highkey confirming they beat the temple bosses before and thus doing it again won't be an issue, aka they actually made a notable change as if Link did all the work, he wouldn't say shit like that. Plus unless you have a billion splash fruit, you have to use Sidon to defeat the temple boss and like like).
He also straight up kills a temple boss at the end of the game without Link's aid (every sage does) and notably, when they show up not one is injured or exhausted in the slightest (aka they probably rolled them).
And he also manages to block an attack from Phantom Ganon with the other sages that ngl, looks like it'd have done some hefty shit to Link (It has absolutely zero reason to be any weaker than the attack at the start of the game especially as Ganon already knows he lived that, that absolutely memed an, at minimum, 7-B Link).
Purah and Link both make note, as well as the sages themselves, qkthat they'd actually be of help later on, if they were fodder Purah, Link, and the sages themselves, would realize they'd just get in the way, especially someone like Riju or Sidon, they don't have an ego, they wouldn't want to hinder Link at all.
He also helps in the final fight against Ganon, not much, but like, he do.

Dude's like easy 8-A to 7-C base and has upwards of five things going for it, and downscaling hard (but downscaling is still downscaling) with the funny rock off Ganon.

 

[Smashtwig]

I‘m new to Zelda scaling and I’m not scrolling through seven pages so I’m gonna just ask here

Spoiler: Just in case

Is calcing the Demon Dragon exploding like, worth anything- like would people scale to it?

 

[Dust_Collector]

It'd be cool to have a calc but ultimately it wouldn't be used since everyone relevant would scale way above whatever results that explosion would get, and anyone not relevant would have no reason to scale to it.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Man, trying to do Ganondorfs notable techniques/attacks section and the dark lighting of his boss fight combined with the wikis really shit file size limit ended up making the gifs I wanted to add to it look like trash.

 

[Chariot190]

I‘m new to Zelda scaling and I’m not scrolling through seven pages so I’m gonna just ask here

Spoiler: Just in case

Is calcing the Demon Dragon exploding like, worth anything- like would people scale to it?

Like 7-C maximum. This is to say it's trash and somehow only the 3rd highest death feat that I can think of.

 

[Emerald]

So wait BoTW Link will be Low 7-B/7-B? Isn't the Master Sword 6-C?

 

[Dalesean027]

So wait BoTW Link will be Low 7-B/7-B? Isn't the Master Sword 6-C?

This is why we're on page 7 bruh no one reads

His master sword is absolute garbage and doesn't scale to that one and on the other side of the spectrum the teaes master sword is way stronger than any other master sword so in both games the and scaling is completely disconnected from prior zelda entries

 

[Qawsedf234]

If I had to guess it would be BotW < AoC (normal) < ToTK.

BotW had Link draw the sword five to six years before the game's began and he never recharged it. The sword ended up being damaged and ruined by Guardian robots and needed to be recharged for 100 years to be useable again. Link also needed to go through a bunch of mental trials before he could use the sword to its full power as well. This is radically different from any other instance of the mastersword. Even in something like ATTLP to OoA/OoS there was at least either a few years of recharging or a generation that it was recharged.

AoC altered the timeline and Link didn't pull the sword until right before the Calamity began. So it was probably at normal strength.

ToTK had that Zelda dragon 20,000+ year holy energy amp going on.

 

[Chariot190]

Tbh, TOTK kinda flatout kills Master Sword scaling, like in general.

Its power can vary regardless of which game it's in. Fortunately, this doesn't affect anything atm (Every game pre-BOTW still has a 6-C or above MS, as even if it can vary, it's more powerful than the Four Sword in every appearance, and the FS is 6-C. And the titles with Ganon have Ganon scaling aka they don't give a ****, which puts them where they are right now). But it does mean if, for some reason, AlttP pulls out a 5-B Upgrade or something, a game like OOT wouldn't be able to scale via the MS as we don't know if the sword is the same strength between games, merely that it's > 6-C.
If it wasn't for that one statement, some games would have been ****** in terms of scaling as the Deku Tree confirms a variable power for it.

That 6-C statement also predates BOTW which had a bunch of variables attached to it to make it extra shitty, so that ain't saving BOTW either.

 

[Tyloxtus]

Should we all sync up our profiles so we can post them all at once?

 

[Qawsedf234]

MM can be handled whenever.

BotW/AoC should probably be handled first and then ToTK.

 

[Chariot190]

MM can be handled whenever.

BotW/AoC should probably be handled first and then ToTK.

MM is being handled right now (I started it like mid march). I'm doing that like entirely on my own minus armor, walt, and a few dudes who i DM to get opinions on.
You lads can like, do whatever you want when it comes to TotK/BOTW, minus fishman, but MM is happening soonish (within the month for sure).
hell I just spent the last 5 hours entirely on making various album compilations and even video compilations for yt as imgur has 1m clip upload limits, of just Song of Healing bullshit, let alone the probably accumulative 100h I've spent working on it and counting.

 

[Qawsedf234]

MM is being handled right now

I mean a dedicated CRT. Not the prep work for the CRT.

 

[TheGatememer]

I wonder how Autobuild would work in versus threads, I’d assume it would be restricted to Schema stones by default

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah I think we can only really give him stuff from the schema stones, we can't really say that a player making a super armed death mech that has a group of koroks attached to it that are constantly being hit by laser beams is a canon thing Link has built and can use.

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah I think we can only really give him stuff from the schema stones, we can't really say that a player making a super armed death mech that has a group of koroks attached to it that are constantly being hit by laser beams is a canon thing Link has built and can use.

Yiga schematics as well