Tears of the Kingdom Spoilers Thread

[The_real_cal_howard]

By the end of BotW he’s = or > AoC anyway.
Not that it really matters since AoC Calamity Ganon does the same feat TOTK Ganon does anyway.

 

[Dalesean027]

By the end of BotW he’s = or > AoC anyway.
Not that it really matters since AoC Calamity Ganon does the same feat TOTK Ganon does anyway.

Which is? Because ifnits the blood moon then AoC is only 5-C

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

It’s the blood moon ofc but it’s a far cry from city level.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Not to mention it’s…still literally the same feat. One value just happened to be larger than the other.

 

[Dalesean027]

Not to mention it’s…still literally the same feat. One value just happened to be larger than the other.

Nah Ganondorfs 5-A is from when he first got the secret stone

Calamity ganons weren't as impressive so while they're both bloodmoon feats I really doubt calamity being 5-A and honestly we know the seal on ganondorf was loosening the entire time and was literally what calamity was so you could make the argument that calamity ganon isn't even the one doing the bloood moon and its just mummy ganon who wr know has been leaking hisnpower out of his ass below hyrule castle

 

[Lou_change]

That doesn't make sense it should at least be a possibility rating

 

[Dalesean027]

That doesn't make sense it should at least be a possibility rating

Why would calamity be 5-A at all like being so serious

5-C sure but 5-A is what doesn't make sense

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Because they scale through the new champions/sages. Riju, Yonobo, and Sidon can harm Demon King Ganon.

I’d also heavily advocate for TOTK Ganon being < OoT, NES, and TP Ganon. While I respect Dust Collector’s response a lot, I couldn’t disagree more with stones being > Triforce, let alone Majora. Honestly, one of the main reasons I left the site to begin with is because you essentially had to have the character look at you through the screen and outright say something to get it through (this ain’t bringing negativity is it? I ain’t tryna sour the mood). The three Triforce pieces being the ultimate power of the series has been blatant since 1986. Doesn’t need to be the full TF.

Side note, why is ALTTP Ganon scaled to the full TF but NES Link isn’t despite the fact that he permanently keeps it?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Unrelated, but ToTK retconned the origin of the Dusk Claymore / Sword of Six Sages to be a Zonai Weapon. Dunno if that means anything.

 

[Tyloxtus]

I’d also heavily advocate for TOTK Ganon being < OoT, NES, and TP Ganon. While I respect Dust Collector’s response a lot, I couldn’t disagree more with stones being > Triforce, let alone Majora. Honestly, one of the main reasons I left the site to begin with is because you essentially had to have the character look at you through the screen and outright say something to get it through (this ain’t bringing negativity is it? I ain’t tryna sour the mood). The three Triforce pieces being the ultimate power of the series has been blatant since 1986. Doesn’t need to be the full TF.

Side note, why is ALTTP Ganon scaled to the full TF but NES Link isn’t despite the fact that he permanently keeps it?

This exactly why I hate making profiles that scale to Triforce pieces.
Also it says why in the Note.

 

[Qawsedf234]

something to get it through (this ain’t bringing negativity is it? I ain’t tryna sour the mood).

Well the main issue with other methods is that they ultimately rely on "Well X should be stronger" without a proper reason. If used in a measured way I guess it could be fine, but then you get things like people trying to scale Boros to Garou because "implications" or "confidence" which really aren't valid paths.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Well the main issue with other methods is that they ultimately rely on "Well X should be stronger" without a proper reason. If used in a measured way I guess it could be fine, but then you get things like people trying to scale Boros to Garou because "implications" or "confidence" which really aren't valid paths.

I think that’s comparing apples to oranges here. TOTK aside, the idea that random mask >>>>> the demon king with the series macguffin is silly when it’s blatantly pointed out said macguffin is better than everything else in-series. Like any other series I promise wouldn’t have the problem and Ganon—in pretty much any form at that not even with the ToP—would be scaled higher than Majora. Majora’s not even a Terminan creation. It’s a Hyrulean one created by nobodies.

 

[Qawsedf234]

. TOTK aside, the idea that random mask >>>>> the demon king with the series macguffin

Well Demon King is a title anyone can get. SS and some of the encyclopedias even mentioned multiple other Demon Kings with Demise and there's other known Demon Kings that exist like Malladus.

Plus we have grander titles like Vaati and Bellum both being called Demon Gods. Should they also upscale from Ganondorf because God > King?

macguffin is better than everything else in-series.

Thr Macguffin when you have it completed is better than everything in the series. An individual Triforce isn't and hasn't been some ultimate world stopping thing. Zelda 2 Link for example had 2/3rds of the Triforce for that entire game but he's also not doing anything insane with them.

 

[Lou_change]

Why would calamity be 5-A at all like being so serious

5-C sure but 5-A is what doesn't make sense

I meant 5-C my bad

 

[Dust_Collector]

I remember once looking for a statement that the Zelda wiki had that said the Triforce of Power by itself granted "absoulte power" to use it for scaling only to find out that statement was for the full Triforce. Honestly the individual pieces don't get that much hype in the grand scheme of things, like sometimes the pieces get called strong or something but it's mostly just the complete package that gets hyped to hell and back as the ultimate omnipotent power of the gods.

 

[Dalesean027]

Well the main issue with other methods is that they ultimately rely on "Well X should be stronger" without a proper reason. If used in a measured way I guess it could be fine, but then you get things like people trying to scale Boros to Garou because "implications" or "confidence" which really aren't valid paths.

Which is kinda my stance on things

I think we need more than just "should be's" and stuff like that unless we actually have guides and stuff that say otherwise


Like even to Dust's point above the complete Triforce more likely than not should be above the secret stones amp but we've not really any reason to assume the same with individual pieces or than just "oh well it should be that way cause triforce is always relevant"

I'll just say I heavily disagree with 5-A any zelda game scaling from tears and a tier 5 calamity ganon when we know everything there was because of ganondorf under the castle leaking super steroid malice (gloom) that whole time ******* over the world.

This really seems like wanting funny big numbers over wanting to look at things correctly

 

[Qawsedf234]

Like even to Dust's point above the complete Triforce mode likely than not should be above the secret stones amp

Complete Triforce, even without the Sacred Realm stuff, is different imo. We have stuff like Lorule being destroyed because the Triforce is a fudemental aspect of existence only for Link to use Hyrule's triforce to restore it. We have plenty of statements about it being all powerful and how even stuff like how it's the most powerful aspect of Force in the franchise.

Scaling the complete triforce above everyone is completely fine in my view. It's the chunks scaling above everyone that I wouldn't be completely sold on.

 

[Dalesean027]

Complete Triforce, even without the Sacred Realm stuff, is different imo. We have stuff like Lorule being destroyed because the Triforce is a fudemental aspect of existence only for Link to use Hyrule's triforce to restore it. We have plenty of statements about it being all powerful and how even stuff like how it's the most powerful aspect of Force in the franchise.

Scaling the complete triforce above everyone is completely fine in my view. It's the chunks scaling above everyone that I wouldn't be completely sold on.

Yeah my bad if I worded itnwrong but that's what I'm saying the complete triforce is fine like go for it but just scaling every ganondorf Link and zelda who held a piece to 5-A because reasons then going well ganondorf is the main antagonist of the series and should be > major just because ain't sound logic to me and never will be without actual direct evidence

Like I said the "should be" stuff doesn't work on its own when we have no actual evidence to assume half of this stuff. It's just literally upgrades for the sake of upgrades atp

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah so uh bottom line

TOTK Ganondorf too strong, can't reliably scale anyone besides TOTK Link and roided out Master Sword to him since while funny triangles put together are overpowered and scale to anything that isn't their creators, can't really take the individual doritos and scale them to the new Ganondorf without something concrete to back it up. Maybe the sages (heavily) downscale if you wanna be generous with them, they don't fully scale since the old ones won't stop telling Link and the new sages about how badly they got their asses beat by Ganondorf, Rauru got one good hit in and even then it was a suicide move where he had to kill himself to steal nandos magic and imprison him, and the new sages get one shot by him halfway through the final boss. Def should scale to moon level since it's implied that weakened mummified Ganondorf couldn't take them all on at once.

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah so uh bottom line

TOTK Ganondorf too strong, can't reliably scale anyone besides TOTK Link and roided out Master Sword to him since while funny triangles put together are overpowered and scale to anything that isn't their creators, can't really take the individual doritos and scale them to the new Ganondorf without something concrete to back it up. Maybe the sages (heavily) downscale if you wanna be generous with them, they don't fully scale since the old ones won't stop telling Link and the new sages about how badly they got their asses beat by Ganondorf, Rauru got one good hit in and even then it was a suicide move where he had to kill himself to steal nandos magic and imprison him, and the new sages get one shot by him halfway through the final boss. Def should scale to moon level since it's implied that weakened mummified Ganondorf couldn't take them all on at once.

This is fine imo

 

[Qawsedf234]

I guess if anyone feels weird about the moon stuff, if we do accept the Termina Moon as being the same as the IRL one anyone who's High 6-A would become Low 5-B.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah think it might be worth it to start discussing the termina moon again, last time it was talked about it went as far as "Yeah maybe it's the size of the irl moon, maybe it isn't"

 

[Qawsedf234]

Wouldn't hurt. I'll make the calc when I get the chance so we have something to go off of.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Maybe the sages (heavily) downscale if you wanna be generous with them

Would be "At most 5-C (Blocked Mummy Ganondorf's gloom attack and fought Phatom Ganons. Were one shot when Ganondorf went all out)".

 

[Dalesean027]

Would be "At most 5-C (Blocked Mummy Ganondorf's gloom attack and fought Phatom Ganons. Were one shot when Ganondorf went all out)".

I wouldn't even say he went all out he just powered up after re-absorbing the phantoms and his aura one shot then

 

[thetechmaster36]

Huh, never thought I'd see Cal again lol, man keeps leaving and coming back perpetually

Though, to throw in my own two cents to that topic,

I’d also heavily advocate for TOTK Ganon being < OoT, NES, and TP Ganon. While I respect Dust Collector’s response a lot, I couldn’t disagree more with stones being > Triforce, let alone Majora. Honestly, one of the main reasons I left the site to begin with is because you essentially had to have the character look at you through the screen and outright say something to get it through (this ain’t bringing negativity is it? I ain’t tryna sour the mood). The three Triforce pieces being the ultimate power of the series has been blatant since 1986. Doesn’t need to be the full TF.

As weird as it is to think that the Secret Stones would be > the Triforce of Power, we can't scale the ToP above the stones without explicit statements or feats to put them above the stones. This is similar why ToP Ganondorf is High 6-A and not 4-C, whereas Majora and Fierce Deity Link are; there's no statements or feats that would realistically put the ToP above Majora or Fierce Deity Link. Like, I can get where you're coming from with the Triforce of Power being the literal power aspect of the three pieces of the Triforce - the macguffin of the entire verse - but we can't exactly put X thing above Y thing just because we think Z thing should apply when there's nothing that says it does or should.

It's about being as objective as possible with the available information we have, not having extremely subjective declarations with multiple interpretations

 

[Qawsedf234]

As weird as it is to think that the Secret Stones would be > the Triforce of Power

Well I wouldn't say this. The secret stones act as a power booster. Sidon for example didn't get anywher3 near the same boost as Rarau or Ganondorf because his base level of strength was already far worse than theirs. ToTK just had a lot going for him. General Ganondorf Magic/Strength + Demise + the Stone.

 

[thetechmaster36]

Well, tbf, I could have worded it better

However, that doesn't necessarily change my point, characters who use the Secret Stones would (as strange as that sounds) be above the incarnations of Ganon that use the Triforce of Power by virtue of having better feats and a lack of statements to put ToP Ganondorfs on the level of Secret Stone users

 

[Dust_Collector]

Oh I just noticed the calcs we have for the blood moon don't use the full distance of the irl moon

 

[Dalesean027]

Nope

Oh I just noticed the calcs we have for the blood moon don't use the full distance of the irl moon

they use the in game distance from px scaling

 

[Dust_Collector]

ah I see

 

[Qawsedf234]

@Dust_Collector Dunno if you're going to do an overhaul thing but here's the Majora calc

 

[Dust_Collector]

@Dust_Collector Dunno if you're going to do an overhaul thing but here's the Majora calc

Cool, might make a thread tomorrow about whether or not the moon should be, well, moon sized and if the calc can be used to upgrade the High 6-A peep. Or someone else can do it I dunno, I'm going to bed because I got an early shift tomorrow.

 

[Tyloxtus]

It's kinda sad how weak Sidon always is with how he gets hyped up by the verse all the time

 

[Dalesean027]

It's kinda sad how weak Sidon always is with how he gets hyped up by the verse all the time

Sidon is 7-C bare minimum before he even gets a secret stone so I don't see how he's treated as being weak

 

[Dust_Collector]

It's kinda sad how weak Sidon always is with how he gets hyped up by the verse all the time

?

He's shown to be just as strong as the other sages (Not sure why you're singling my man out) and in terms of hype he doesn't really get hyped up as super strong besides when compared to relatively normal people. Like that man ain't weak, with his Sage powers he'd body someone like Vaati

 

[Qawsedf234]

Sidon isn't weak as much as no one other than Link is really strong enough to stop the final threat.

 

[Tyloxtus]

Sidon isn't weak as much as no one other than Link is really strong enough to stop the final threat.

Or the first threat lol

 

[Dalesean027]

Or the first threat lol

Yeah but tbf none of the champions from 100 years ago or Riju, Teba, king dorephan were able to stand up to calamity ganon so singling sidon still seems off

 

[Tyloxtus]

Who said anything about Calamity Ganon?