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Dragon's Dogma Discussion Thread

Dienomite22

Dienomite22

7,897
3,856
Thread to discuss the Dragon's Dogma series.

As Dragon's Dogma 2 nears its release, anyone who wishes to discuss any confirmed story, lore, and gameplay spoilers and leaks not shown in official trailers and gameplay showcases, please use the spoiler function to hide the parts of your post that contain the spoiler. With that being said feel free to theorize and speculate about Dragon's Dogma 2.

Dragon's Dogma 2 Main Trailer:

 
first,it was implied that daimon is able to break the eternal cycle right ? And also what happened in the blue moon tower.
 
SYPHe5D said:
first,it was implied that daimon is able to break the eternal cycle right ? And also what happened in the blue moon tower.
Click to expand...
No, Daimon or at the time, Ashe, attempted to break the cycle by choosing his wish option during the confrontation with the Dragon who was his mentor because he couldn't stand to sacrifice his lover nor kill the Dragon. The Dragon warped his wish to break the cycle by making him into Daimon and by extension trapping him in the BBI. As for the Blue Moon Tower, I have no idea. Not much is given about it.
 
You know I think the Seneschal is straight up Low 1-C using DD1 alone. Although the current lore seemingly indicates there is a Seneschal for each universe instead of 1 overall Seneschal...for now, the lore also repeatedly implies that the Seneschal's Chamber is superordinate to Rifts. To start, I'll present a brief description of what the Seneschal's Chamber is according to a scan from the official art book:

"A space that exists outside of time, sandwiched between dark heavy clouds, or a realm where notions like up and down have no meaning. From pitch blackness to blinding whiteness, everything about this realm is within the control of The Seneschal. Unbound by the laws of physics or even common sense, sunlight can shine through any part of the clouds and lightning upwards from below."

For those who don't know the TL;DR on the Dragon's Dogma cosmology its this:

The world is composed of parallel universes stacked on top and below each other endlessly all connected by the Everfall and can "only" be traveled between by the pawns thanks to the Rift (34:46)

"The countless worlds are linked... bound to this place, all."

Each universe is infinite in both space and time and exists eternally in a loop.

"The pawns exist astride the rift. They speak of a multitude of worlds, each infinite unto itself. Limitless in span and lost to time, these worlds extend in an eternal, perfect loop. Just as a ring lacks start and end, so this world has no origin, no final terminus. If it does, they lie beyond our ken. We are prisoners of unpassing time, wandering an unending land. What lies beyond, we cannot know."

"Aye, there is life in the world, and with it death. Naught lasts forever. Each rises and falls in its time. But such is a death akin to that of pawns. They appear in this world, then vanish only to appear again, like bubbles in a mountain spring. As so it is with all that lives within this eternal world. In time, you will come to see it happen under your watch as Seneschal. Each beast, each blade of grass, each human life is born to die and be born again in endless rhythm. Naught lasts forever, yet all persists unto eternity."

Within the Seneschal's Chamber pawns have various dialogue that expresses its' grandness and likeness to the Rift which is the space between the worlds (due note that Rifts are both plural and singular but essentially refer to the same space/realm/dimension etc in-game):

"This place is ...familiar."
"It feels different, yet..."
"This bears the look of ...Of the world beyond the rift."
"Even we who traverse the rift do not ken what lies beyond."
"Rifts are but gateways linking distant places...slivers of a world far more vast.".

Pablos (The Cassardis innkeeper) also gives us dialogue related to this idea:

"A traveler told me a most curious tale.. He spoke of a hole beneath the capital what leads beyond the rift"

Furthermore, we have pawn dialogue about the Everfall after defeating Grigori, the Everfall becoming the infinite tunnel that ultimately leads to the Seneschal's realm which really cements the idea that was brought about in this post:

"We stand at the trunk of all the branching worlds. The very root..."
"'Tis shaft is the axis along which all turns... 'Tis the source."
"We fall, and fall beyond...".
"The countless worlds are linked... bound to this place, all."
"'Tis a gate... A nexus linking all worlds."
"The world we knew is but a single leaf upon a vast tree..."

Now, with these chatter dialogues in mind, it's pretty simple to piece together the Seneschal's Chamber's scale in comparison to the Rifts.

Rifts are spaces between the universes and are gateways that connect to other universes. Gateways that are nothing but slivers of the far more vast world being the Seneschal's realm which exists beyond Rifts in its entirety yet is similiar to the Rift. The Seneschal's Chamber is a realm that exists outside of time, unbound by the laws of physics, and is under the complete control of the Seneschal. A space that can only be accessed by traversing the Everfall, the very root of all the branching worlds and source in which all turns, by collecting the proper amount of Wakestones to open an abnormally powerful rift to the Seneschal's chamber.

I firmly believe this would indicate that the Seneschal's Chamber is at least Low 1-C in terms of dimensionality. The Rift being the space between the infinite parallel worlds and the gateway that connects them all makes it a 5-D structure in terms of size. Seneschal's Chamber being described as the world beyond the Rift and while within the Seneschal's Chamber pawns, describing Rifts as being merely gateways/slivers of a far more vast world would indicate that the Seneschal's Chamber is likely 6-D in terms of its dimensionality. Naturally, since the Seneschal's Chamber is Low 1-C, the same applies to the Seneschal who has complete control over it.

Now I know those familiar with the verse would have concerns regarding this idea. Concerns such as "If the Seneschal is Low 1-C, then why do they only have control over one universe?" and my answer to that is simple, the Seneschal can be Low 1-C while being limited to their universe. Similar to how the Infinity Gauntlet can be Low 1-A in all aspects but only functions within its own universe or in the case of the Seneschal, they're Low 1-C within the Seneschal's Chamber and their universe. EDIT: Upon further research, this concern seems no longer valid as it is implied there is only 1 Seneschal at a time for the multiverse of Dragon's Dogma. The evidence is that while playing online, at NG+3 and on you face the last online player who defeated the Seneschal in their world indicating there is always 1 Seneschal for the whole cosmology along with the statement that the Seneschal oversees all of creation and Grigori stating the battle with Arisen sets at the heart of all creation. This is further indicated by the first Chronicle entry you get during the intro where you play as Savan which states "In another land, under another sky..". I think is a clear indication that the Savan who became the Seneschal is from a parallel universe to the one the game takes place in meaning the Seneschal doesn't only maintain one universe but all parallel universes.

Although I would really love to make a CRT on this topic and add DD profiles back to the wiki, seeing as DD2 is close to releasing and would undoubtedly affect these proposals, I'll just wait until then. Hopefully, my fire for this verse on this wiki will continue to burn by the end of my playthrough of 2.
 
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Dienomite22 said:
You know I think the Seneschal is straight up Low 1-C using DD1 alone. Although the current lore seemingly indicates there is a Seneschal for each universe instead of 1 overall Seneschal...for now, the lore also repeatedly implies that the Seneschal's Chamber is superordinate to Rifts. To start, I'll present a brief description of what the Seneschal's Chamber is according to a scan from the official art book:

"A space that exists outside of time, sandwiched between dark heavy clouds, or a realm where notions like up and down have no meaning. From pitch blackness to blinding whiteness, everything about this realm is within the control of The Seneschal. Unbound by the laws of physics or even common sense, sunlight can shine through any part of the clouds and lightning upwards from below."

For those who don't know the TL;DR on the Dragon's Dogma cosmology its this:

The world is composed of parallel universes stacked on top and below each other endlessly all connected by the Everfall and can "only" be traveled between by the pawns thanks to the Rift (34:46)

Each universe is infinite in both space and time and exists eternally in a loop.

"The pawns exist astride the rift. They speak of a multitude of worlds, each infinite unto itself. Limitless in span and lost to time, these worlds extend in an eternal, perfect loop. Just as a ring lacks start and end, so this world has no origin, no final terminus. If it does, they lie beyond our ken. We are prisoners of unpassing time, wandering an unending land. What lies beyond, we cannot know."

"Aye, there is life in the world, and with it death. Naught lasts forever. Each rises and falls in its time. But such is a death akin to that of pawns. They appear in this world, then vanish only to appear again, like bubbles in a mountain spring. As so it is with all that lives within this eternal world. In time, you will come to see it happen under your watch as Seneschal. Each beast, each blade of grass, each human life is born to die and be born again in endless rhythm. Naught lasts forever, yet all persists unto eternity."

Within the Seneschal's Chamber pawns have various dialogue that expresses its' grandness and likeness to the Rift which is a rift space between the worlds (due note that Rifts are both plural and singular but essentially refer to the same space/realm/dimension etc in-game):

"This place is ...familiar."
"It feels different, yet..."
"This bears the look of ...Of the world beyond the rift."
"Even we who traverse the rift do not ken what lies beyond."
"Rifts are but gateways linking distant places...slivers of a world far more vast.".

Pablos (The Cassardis innkeeper) also gives us dialogue related to this idea:

"A traveler told me a most curious tale.. He spoke of a hole beneath the capital what leads beyond the rift"

Furthermore, we have pawn dialogue about the Everfall after defeating Grigori, the Everfall becoming the infinite tunnel that ultimately leads to the Seneschal's realm which really cements the idea that was brought about in this post:

"We stand at the trunk of all the branching worlds. The very root..."
"'Tis shaft is the axis along which all turns... 'Tis the source."
"We fall, and fall beyond...".

Now, with these chatter dialogues in mind, it's pretty simple to piece together the Seneschal's Chamber's scale in comparison to the Rifts.

Rifts are spaces between the universes and are gateways that connect to other universes. Gateways that are nothing but slivers of the far more vast world being the Seneschal's realm which exists beyond Rifts in its entirety yet is similiar to the Rift. The Seneschal's Chamber is a realm that exists outside of time, unbound by the laws of physics, and is under the complete control of the Seneschal. A space that can only be accessed by traversing the Everfall, the very root of all the branching worlds and source in which all turns, by collecting the proper amount of Wakestones to open an abnormally powerful rift to the Seneschal's chamber.

I firmly believe this would indicate that the Seneschal's Chamber is at least Low 1-C in terms of dimensionality. The Rift being the space between the infinite parallel worlds and the gateway that connects them all makes it a 5-D structure in terms of size. Seneschal's Chamber being described as the world beyond the Rift and while within the Seneschal's Chamber pawns, describing Rifts as being merely gateways/slivers of a far more vast world would indicate that the Seneschal's Chamber is likely 6-D in terms of its dimensionality. Naturally, since the Seneschal's Chamber is Low 1-C, the same applies to the Seneschal who has complete control over it.

Now I know those familiar with the verse would have concerns regarding this idea. Concerns such as "If the Seneschal is Low 1-C, then why do they only have control over one universe?" and my answer to that is simple, the Seneschal can be Low 1-C while being limited to their universe. Similar to how the Infinity Gauntlet can be Low 1-A in all aspects but only functions within its own universe or in the case of the Seneschal, they're Low 1-C within the Seneschal's Chamber and their universe.

Although I would really love to make a CRT on this topic and add DD profiles back to the wiki, seeing as DD2 is close to releasing and would undoubtedly affect these proposals, I'll just wait until then. Hopefully, my fire for this verse on this wiki will continue to burn by the end of my playthrough of 2.
Click to expand...
Yeah that’s pretty clear, when DD2 gets released we should start making the pages again,also I don’t think the existence of multiple senschals debunks anything, since it will just mean that there are as many seneschal realms that are beyond the rift as there are universes.
 
Elizhaa said:
It could be Low 1-C; heck, it could 1-A with more contexts and assuming Ultima's revision could pass.
Click to expand...
I’m more interested in speed, I was under the assumption that the Ur dragon will get infinite due to traveling through the rift to go to other worlds but apparently it is just dimensional travel.
 
Based on all of what I've researched, the hierarchy of the notable structures for the verse would be something like this:

(The highest/strongest/apex structure is at the top)

The Seneschal's Chamber

The Everfall

The Rift

The infinite parallel universes

and last each individual universe...duh

I can see maybe the Rift and Everfall being switched or equal but with the amount of wank the Everfall gets from pawn chatter and lore along with being explicitly being the only way to access the Seneschal's Chamber, I would say the Everfall is comfortably above the Rift.
 
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Dienomite22 said:
It is its own thing. Nothing is substantial about it except that it's a pocket dimension of unknown size.
Click to expand...
Well the sky box has a moon and it seems to also contain an entire nebula if you looked up the sky from the cracks in Daimon’s arena
 
Looking at the concept art for DD1 and taking into account how DD2 is implementing a lot of stuff from DD1's cut development concept. The moon and endless tower (Changed to the Everfall in the final game) were both end-game structures connected to all of the universes where the BBI-style endless dungeon shit took place. Although I know co-op is straight-up not confirmed, I think there is a good chance DMC5's style of "co-op" aka the cameo system where the players seamlessly join each other briefly at specific points and only in certain missions is something that could be in the game and assumingly, whenever we get to the Everfall equivalent point in the game where you're in a structure connected to all the universes. This seems exactly like something Itsuno would implement into his game and wouldn't make him a liar by saying there is no co-op for that would still be true as it isn't co-op in the way that people would've expected or were hoping for and it would only something that happens in a specific location in the game, not the entirety.
 
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Elizhaa said:
It could be Low 1-C; heck, it could 1-A with more contexts and assuming Ultima's revision could pass.
Click to expand...
What would be your true judgment of the Rift and Everfall in terms of tiering as it stands in the current tiering system right now and by what I posted?

I'm still doing my replay of DD1 and haven't found anything about the Rift's size being infinite in comparison to the multiverse so I'll correct that part to the Rift just being a 5-D space > 2-A multiverse for now. I still believe the Seneschal and their Chamber to be Low 1-C at least, that wouldn't change I believe. However, I think the Everfall has the potential to be Low 1-C. Statements such as "We stand at the trunk of all the branching worlds. The very root..." and "'Tis shaft is the axis along which all turns... 'Tis the source." in particular suggest to me that the Everfall is quite literally the extra-dimensional axis that the multiverse operates along. That in tandem with the "physical" manifestation of the Everfall being an infinite "shaft" that extends quite literally perpendicular through all of the infinite parallel universes with the only way these universes intersect or interact with each other being through the Everfall "physically" manifesting after the Dragon is killed in one of the universes or in a nonliteral way such as through a Pawn being summoned to another via the Rift. Regardless, I need a second opinion from someone with more knowledge than me on Tier 1 matters to form a better judgment of this.
 
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I might be talking out my ass but I also think DD2, although will somehow connect to DD1, will take place in its own "parallel multiverse", yes, multiverse as in its own largely self-contained cosmology, not just parallel world as the devs said last show (unless they meant multiverse too when they said "world"). The reason ties along with most of the new things we have seen are from the cut concepts of DD1's development that are now in DD2. Now I know the most logical answer is that it's just another world in the OG DD1 multiverse but I also can't help but think Itsuno would be willing to go along the route of making DD2 a literal sequelboot (sequel+reboot) of the series to make DD2 his original idea for DD1 as a whole finally realized. In essence, a remake that's simultaneously a sequel. In truth, I don't have much more of a reason besides speculation and knowing the original DD's concept was a dream of Itsuno. It's more of a feeling I've been getting from the very first gameplay trailer.
 
truly a gem, also guys what type of hax dragon’s dogma has ? I’m aware of stuff like subjective reality and some conceptual stuff.
 
Dienomite22 said:
I might be talking out my ass but I also think DD2, although will somehow connect to DD1, will take place in its own "parallel multiverse", yes, multiverse as in its own largely self-contained cosmology, not just parallel world as the devs said last show (unless they meant multiverse too when they said "world"). The reason ties along with most of the new things we have seen are from the cut concepts of DD1's development that are now in DD2. Now I know the most logical answer is that it's just another world in the OG DD1 multiverse but I also can't help but think Itsuno would be willing to go along the route of making DD2 a literal sequelboot (sequel+reboot) of the series to make DD2 his original idea for DD1 as a whole finally realized. In essence, a remake that's simultaneously a sequel. In truth, I don't have much more of a reason besides speculation and knowing the original DD's concept was a dream of Itsuno. It's more of a feeling I've been getting from the very first gameplay trailer.
Click to expand...
U are talking out of your ass
 
Just defeated Grigori, should be done with this playthrough sometime tomorrow. Haven't had much in regards to the rift and its size compared to the multiverse but I did find lore that indicates that the worlds are illusions with the Seneschal and Arisens(?) wills being the power source of the illusion. Shit that essentially implies everything, including existence itself, is fake and those who have a strong will can break out of the falsehood to become more than an empty shell and maintain it. I'll have to finish the playthrough to see if there is more to it but based on my memory, I'm positive there is.
 
Another slow theory I saw someone made a random comment on a DD2 video or Reddit or something and said something along the lines that DD2 is Ashe's (Daimon) universe. I don't believe what the person was suggesting because they honestly sounded like they knew very little about the lore but it got me thinking. We all know that there was a moon in the conceptual diagram of Dragon's Dogma's world and that moon existed in all universes and was a late-game dungeon before the endless tower/Everfall. What is interesting is that the moon in Dragon's Dogma 1 DOES NOT APPEAR AT ALL throughout the main game BUT if you go to BBI, a dimension that seemingly exists in all universes that is also a late-game dungeon, the moon is clearly visible in most of the open areas of BBI. Here's where the theory comes in, DD2 takes place in a parallel world that takes place way before DD1's universe. We haven't gotten any footage of DD2's nighttime skybox to see if there is a moon in the sky but in the case that it is, my theory suggests that something either will happen in the main story or during DLC (maybe Dark Arisen 2) that causes the moon from being a perpetual existence in all skies of the parallel worlds and some force, likely the Dragon if you know Daimon's story, created BBI and placed the moon inside of it, making BBI always appear to be night as apart of the curse brought about corrupting Ashe's wish to get rid of the cycle which turned him into Daimon.
 
"what a gaffe" - a Pawn after jumping right into a 300 ft deep cliff in broad daylight.
sddefault.jpg
 
Can't wait till my angelic female pawn catches my Burly middle aged Arizen in arms after I fall from my 69th failed attempt at killing the Griffin in Dragon's Dogma 2
 
I'm curious as to why our Arisen is DD2 is destined for the throne. Either there is only 1 true Arisen in DD2's world unlike in DD1 where there were multiple in a single world or the false Arisen dude and the queen chick have been killing/capturing any Arisen that publically comes forth as Arisen since Arisen's are destined to rule the kingdom in DD2. Perhaps if other Arisens were captured or killed by royalty, a ritual or something in connection to the necklace of the false Arisen was performed involving the corpses.
 
I thought the necklace was a wakestone, wakestones in DD are powerful artifacts, Perhaps the false Arisen is just a guy mimicking the Arisen’s immortality with it ?
 
SYPHe5D said:
I thought the necklace was a wakestone, wakestones in DD are powerful artifacts, Perhaps the false Arisen is just a guy mimicking the Arisen’s immortality with it ?
Click to expand...
The necklace does seem wakestone-ish but I don't think we've had confirmation of it. The necklace has to do more than just provide Arisen immortality if it can allow you to control pawns. I remember Miss She-goat from 1 said she tried to give commands to pawns but they were legit dumb as a bag of rocks without an Arisen being the actual controller. Unless the pawns following the false Arisen aren't pawns or possibly are former pawns that became human through the bestowal of spirit but that doesn't seem likely.
 
Dienomite22 said:
Rip. Oh well, I didn't have any hope for recovering them anyway but thanks though.
Click to expand...
also i havé a question apparently the rift can erase you into nothing as per Daimon’s boss when he uses his vortex attack, so the rift is basically the nothingness between universes ? I assumed it was just a regular space rather than a flat out nothingness/ void that erases you from existence.
 
SYPHe5D said:
also i havé a question apparently the rift can erase you into nothing as per Daimon’s boss when he uses his vortex attack, so the rift is basically the nothingness between universes ? I assumed it was just a regular space rather than a flat out nothingness/ void that erases you from existence.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't know what it does. It might be a special Rift as it's called a tear and it looks dramatically different than normal Rift stuff as well though it is undeniably connected to the Rift in some way. I'll chalk it up to Daimon doing something special with the Rift rather than applying it to the Rift in general.
 
I do hope it's properly explained why the queen in DD2 places a false Arisen as king to save the throne for her son if it's the title of Arisen that makes someone the king/queen. Why doesn't she make her son the false Arisen and why would her son have a place on the throne if he isn't Arisen? The only answer I can see is that not all Arisen will automatically be contenders for the throne and our DD2 Arisen is special for some reason outside of just being an Arisen. Our DD2 Arisen missing memories might also indicate that they are more special than other Arisen too.

Nevermind. There are multiple Arisen per world but only one active Arisen who has the right to fight the Dragon. Using DD1 as an example, all Arisens in the default world besides our character had their chance to face the Dragon but failed or chose to take a deal or succeded in defeating the Dragon but didn't choose to become Seneschal. This means its easy to see why our DD2 arisen has the right to the through because they're the only Arisen in the world of DD2 that hasn't faced the Dragon in true combat yet.
 
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been replaying the game with Mystic Knight, and Daimon mentions an infinite chain which is probably the crucible of souls that he mentions. Where every soul gathers and flows as the river of time, is that in reference yo the Senschal’s realm? Since all souls go there when they die which includes all animals, humans and plants.
 
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