Tears of the Kingdom Spoilers Thread

[Tyloxtus]

There's an extreme difference between Sidon in BotW and how Sidon was in TotK even before the Sage bullshit. Sidon in BotW gets oneshotted by a Moblin, meanwhile Sidon is purifying water for days on end the moment he appears in TotK.

 

[Dalesean027]

Who said anything about Calamity Ganon?

Or the first threat lol

I'd assume you meant thenfirst threat as in the threat from the first game

There's an extreme difference between Sidon in BotW and how Sidon was in TotK even before the Sage bullshit. Sidon in BotW gets oneshotted by a Moblin, meanwhile Sidon is purifying water for days on end the moment he appears in TotK.

I really wouldn't use that unless you mean to imply that moblin is 7-C

Like we've been over this enough that Sidon literally hasn't changed since botw pre his awakening to be a sage aside from getting new water powers

Otherwise the man literally hasn't just magically gotten stronger if anything he got more reclusive and regressed

 

[Dust_Collector]

Isn't the only way for Sidon to get hit by anything to push him out of where he's meant to be? Like he's clearly not meant to be put anywhere near something like a moblin you have to repeatly push his model to places he's not supposed to go so I really wouldn't use that moblin clip as anything concrete.

 

[Dust_Collector]

You want someone who ends up lacking despite the hype they get in the games they appear in? Look at Demise and especially Vaati, on god the latter gets hyped up and is even called the Demon god but man's so ass a magic sword handed out by a no name old man living in a grave is stronger than him.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Isn't the only way for Sidon to get hit by anything to push him out of where he's meant to be?

Yeah.

Lore wise his dad can take down a guardian, which in-universe is hard enough to justify a stone tablet being made to hype the event. Plus in AoC he held off a Blight Ganon and battled Calamity Ganons army with the rest. He's not like, Midna or anyone actually effective but he isn't fodder either.

 

[Dalesean027]

Lore wise his dad can take down a guardian, which in-universe is hard enough to justify a stone tablet being made to hype the event. Plus in AoC he held off a Blight Ganon and battled Calamity Ganons army with the rest. He's not like, Midna or anyone actually effective but he isn't fodder either.

Also fought off a boss to a standstill while kinda weaker from not being being in his prime in tears

I'm saying idk why peeps here have a weird downplay and want for sidon and the others to be just 8-C

Honestly like they haven't played anything

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Sages are stronger than champions. Even before stone buffs, it’s heavily implied that Tulin, at age like 10 mind you, is greater than his father Teba, who’s Revali’s equal. Heck, the OG champions only lost to the blights because they were specifically designed to counter em and caught em off guard. The moment someone shows up who they’re not designed to counter, be it Link, Impa, or hell, even Hetsu, the tide turns.
Also like…town level? Somebody calc Colgera’s snowstorm that shit’s like island level at the worst.

 

[Dalesean027]

Somebody calc Colgera’s snowstorm that shit’s like island level at the worst.

That's literally where town level comes from it uses the distance from Rito village to the snowfield stables and moderate instability surr you could extend the distance by a few kilometers with there really not even that much room left to go in either direction but it'll net 7-B to 7-A at best if you're really trying to wank it up

 

[Dalesean027]

Raising things to highest instability while keeping the current distance nets us 85.913957 Kilotons of TNT (Town level+)
Maybe reach low 7-B with some edits here and there but not near tier 6 at all

You really gotta follow whats been done already Cal, we're not pulling these ratings out our asses.

Tier 7 is where their at

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

…
Well guess who’s an idiot
(Hint, it’s Cal)

 

[Dalesean027]

…
Well guess who’s an idiot
(Hint, it’s Cal)

Its all good fam but yeah that's where town level comes from so saying Sidon is 7-C before he gets a secret stone is like actually right

Unless we want to say he like actually upscales the past champions in which case he'd be at least low 7-B(at least going by the blights)

 

[Tyloxtus]

Isn't the only way for Sidon to get hit by anything to push him out of where he's meant to be? Like he's clearly not meant to be put anywhere near something like a moblin you have to repeatly push his model to places he's not supposed to go so I really wouldn't use that moblin clip as anything concrete.

Everyone has a certain amount of health they have before getting knocked out. It's how civilians can "fight" Bokoblins in BotW, and they still have it in Age of Calamity like how the Monster Control Crew gets knocked out all the time.

You want someone who ends up lacking despite the hype they get in the games they appear in? Look at Demise and especially Vaati, on god the latter gets hyped up and is even called the Demon god but man's so ass a magic sword handed out by a no name old man living in a grave is stronger than him.

...The Magical Sword isn't in either of those games. Also the Magical Sword only even worked ever because of the Silver Arrows.

 

[Tyloxtus]

Yeah.

Lore wise his dad can take down a guardian, which in-universe is hard enough to justify a stone tablet being made to hype the event. Plus in AoC he held off a Blight Ganon and battled Calamity Ganons army with the rest. He's not like, Midna or anyone actually effective but he isn't fodder either.

The Guardian died of fall damage, he didn't like hit it hard enough to shatter it or anything. And the "stone tablet" wasn't made because he managed to kill one, it told of the battle in it's entirety.

 

[Tyloxtus]

Also fought off a boss to a standstill while kinda weaker from not being being in his prime in tears

I'm saying idk why peeps here have a weird downplay and want for sidon and the others to be just 8-C

Honestly like they haven't played anything

Probably from a reluctance to scale him above Bomb Arrows, because they could damage Vah Medoh and at that point why would the Divine Beasts be needed

 

[Dalesean027]

Everyone has a certain amount of health they have before getting knocked out. It's how civilians can "fight" Bokoblins in BotW, and they still have it in Age of Calamity like how the Monster Control Crew gets knocked out all the time.

Nah man you're seriously bugging if you think civilians are stronger and better fighters than Sidon

There's literally just no way you genuinely believe Sidon being 1 tapped by a moblin through doing some fuckery with the locations of the character and enemies is evidence of him not being relevant or above 8-C then used regular hylians as justification when they could take a hit from a moblin as well without going down on 1 hit


There's literally no way to normally get what happened in that clip to happen without doing some weird fuckery to get that to happen anyways

 

[Dalesean027]

Probably from a reluctance to scale him above Bomb Arrows, because they could damage Vah Medoh and at that point why would the Divine Beasts be needed

We literally already discussed bombs my guy

I cannot take you seriously or as a reliable source with these arguments man

 

[Tyloxtus]

We literally already discussed bombs my guy

I cannot take you seriously or as a reliable source with these arguments man

We didn't really get anywhere beyond "Well the Bomb Arrows must be 7-C" which is a stretch. And I'm not some turbo downplayer, it's the reason why people don't want to scale Sidon and other Zoras beyond Tier 8.

 

[Dalesean027]

Scaling them to bombs isn't crazy since bombs are like the bare minimum feat not scaling them to bombs means they're just anything potentially at the very very most 8-B bombs and bomb arrows in botw/tears aren't really low 7-B like divine beast even remotely

I mean idk we do have other stuff if we don't want to scale them to bombs


Though wait Ig bombs can harm bosses it'd either be an outlier to bombs for harming bosses or enemies who can tank them but its pretty consistent for enemies to tanks explosions and bombs

Bombs take out an early game Link who is 8-C physically in botw/tears which is still weakened beyond his normal strength so I'd say its pretty downplayed to say they can't scale to bombs

Yeah no more was said

 

[Qawsedf234]

The Guardian died of fall damage, he didn't like hit it hard enough to shatter it or anything

You're right. I was confusing his fight with the one Mipha did where she beat three guardians.

 

[Dust_Collector]

...The Magical Sword isn't in either of those games. Also the Magical Sword only even worked ever because of the Silver Arrows.

Magical Sword not being in those games don't matter, we have a statement about what the strongest sword in Hyrule is when the Master Sword ain't available and unfortunately for demon """""god"""" Vaati the Four Sword, which has rocked his shit 4 times, isn't that sword. Man even got upstaged by one of the weakest versions of Ganon in FSA, to the point that deku scrubs of all things started talking about how Vaati ain't all that.

 

[Chariot190]

Probably from a reluctance to scale him above Bomb Arrows, because they could damage Vah Medoh and at that point why would the Divine Beasts be needed

Because they have a giant **** off laserbeam that would scale like a dozen times above them either way (Triple digit KT at minimum vs like lowerend 7-C I think? Whatever Colgera packing ig. That's a huge gap in the double digits).
And because Tulin wasn't shit, Riju hadnt manifested her powers, and Yonobu was a bitch ass coward back in BOTW, I don't think the sheikah predicted that in 10,000 years there'd be a super jacked goron that eclipses all other gorons who's effortlessly 8-A at minimum, if not tier 7 based on his own feats.
Only one argument could be made for is fish, but he helped Link either way.

Also they could damage Vah Medoh's weakpoints, they do literally nothing if struck anywhere else.

 

[Chariot190]

@Dust_Collector Dunno if you're going to do an overhaul thing but here's the Majora calc

I'm doing the MM overhaul, I literally just finished dumping Zora double cutter clips into imgur albums.
I personally gathered 649 clips myself for the overhaul. everything is gathered, it just needs to be rendered and uploaded, in which I've already began.

 

[Dust_Collector]

only 649 clips? I could've gotten 650 tbh

 

[Chariot190]

only 649 clips? I could've gotten 650 tbh

if we count footage i stole it'd be like 1000

 

[Lou_change]

So do silver enemies upscale from their weaker counterparts

 

[Dust_Collector]

yup

 

[Tyloxtus]

Yeah, a great way to scale them would be remove all Link's armor and see how hard they can hit Link without vs with weapons.

Don't forget gold either.

 

[Chariot190]

That wouldn't work, we don't take HP damage like that as canon. They'd just be unquantifiably higher at worst if we truly got nothing to work with.
We could probably look at when they start spawning at least and go from there just to see the possibilities of what we can cook (I forget how the EXP system works, but iirc for me they didn't start coming in till temple 3).

 

[Tyloxtus]

That wouldn't work, we don't take HP damage like that as canon. They'd just be unquantifiably higher at worst if we truly got nothing to work with.
We could probably look at when they start spawning at least and go from there just to see the possibilities of what we can cook (I forget how the EXP system works, but iirc for me they didn't start coming in till temple 3).

Maybe not for normal Zelda games, but the BotW canon directly integrates hearts into canon.

 

[Lou_change]

Could we just compare them to each other based their drops fuse power

 

[Dust_Collector]

Maybe not for normal Zelda games, but the BotW canon directly integrates hearts into canon.

"BotW canon"

Bro why you treating this like a new universe? Plus if we used in game HP scaling then everyone, literally everyone including normal red bokoblins, would be tier 5 because even the weakest peeps would be doing some percentage of Ganondorfs damage output, we ain't using it.

Could we just compare them to each other based their drops fuse power

Best we can really do is just upscale them, using ingame damage numbers just doesn't cut it.

 

[Lou_change]

Best we can really do is just upscale them, using ingame damage numbers just doesn't cut it.

So we can't just say silver bokoblin scale above blue moblins

 

[Dalesean027]

So we can't just say silver bokoblin scale above blue moblins

That's just being intentionally ignorant to the point he's actually saying

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah we can say they scale above them, silver monsters are treated as the strongest variants due to being directly amped by Ganondorf himself but we can't really say how much stronger they are. Like, if blue moblins are a 1 we can't say silver ones are a 2 or a 3 we can only just say they're above a 1.

 

[Chariot190]

Maybe not for normal Zelda games, but the BotW canon directly integrates hearts into canon.

The hearts have always been canon, what isn't canon is the damage dealt. By that logic a bokoblin and Ganon isn't even a magnitude apart.

I don't think I need to explain the issue with that right?

 

[Lou_change]

That's just being intentionally ignorant to the point he's actually saying

sorry I wasn't sure scaling between enemies would be possible given we can't get numbers and only know that blue, black(White for lynels) and silver versions are stronger then the form before them

 

[Dalesean027]

sorry I wasn't sure scaling between enemies would be possible given we can't get numbers and only know that blue, black(White for lynels) and silver versions are stronger then the form before them

Its all good

 

[Tyloxtus]

"BotW canon"

Bro why you treating this like a new universe? Plus if we used in game HP scaling then everyone, literally everyone including normal red bokoblins, would be tier 5 because even the weakest peeps would be doing some percentage of Ganondorfs damage output, we ain't using it.

Because it is a new universe. That's why literally nothing matches up with any other game. And why not scale them to the explosives Bokoblins love using so much?

 

[Dust_Collector]

Because it is a new universe. That's why literally nothing matches up with any other game.

 

[Dust_Collector]

And why not scale them to the explosives Bokoblins love using so much?

Yeah scaling them to those seem fine, they can handle being caught within those explosions and can harm each other