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Team Fortress 9-A Upgrade

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Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E said:
I mean it has been affirmed by a veteran for 9-A, there's one too for classic Heavy and our current Mercs are considered superior in most cases.

As I said: "9-B to likely 9-A (Pre MVM) | 9-A (Post MVM)" Is fine to me too.
Click to expand...
Also they scale to the TF2 classics granades and the meet the demoman in the beggining has one 9-A and in the end of jungle inferno demoman do a 9-A feat so i guess is consistent
 
hmm even if they don't scale to it that would be good for scout, soldier, engine, medic, and sniper. considering they all have vaporization weaponry
 
Livinmeme said:
And that is gameplay mechanics and no before you say "you sayed that gameplay is canon" there is a diference betwen gameplay being canon and gameplay mechanics likea healths and deaths that are not canonical in the TF2 universe
Click to expand...
Doesn’t the 9-A feat itself come from them being vaporized? If that’s gameplay mechanics/non-canon the feat doesn’t exist.
 
Also merasmus creating a building and it comes from his magic so he should scale from that and the meteorites feats should be calced. but the scaling from merasmus is kinda shaddy
 
Livinmeme said:
oh also 8-B calc for the vaporizationj weaposn :)
Click to expand...
These calcs aren't accepted by VSBW, lad. Without putting too fine a point on it, we can't guarantee any amount of accuracy from offsite sources. Just like NarutoForums calcs, upload them here and we can take the time to eval them.

With that said, I wanna remind you, because you seem to have forgotten, to remember the person on the other side of the screen. Abstractions does shit off this site and can't respond to your constant barrage of messages and updates. She has debunked several of the feats you're bringing up a plethora of times in the past. It is tiring. Don't be an ass, have some patience.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
These calcs aren't accepted by VSBW, lad. Without putting too fine a point on it, we can't guarantee any amount of accuracy from offsite sources. Just like NarutoForums calcs, upload them here and we can take the time to eval them.

With that said, I wanna remind you, because you seem to have forgotten, to remember the person on the other side of the screen. Abstractions does shit off this site and can't respond to your constant barrage of messages and updates. She has debunked several of the feats you're bringing up a plethora of times in the past. It is tiring. Don't be an ass, have some patience.
Click to expand...
1. bringing these calcs to calc
2. and i debunked several of them and i am just brining out feats and my recent arguments arent toward he/she is in general
3. i cant just stop debating because she isnt debating
 
Knifeman29 said:
These are some of the feats I could find.
Click to expand...
Livinmeme said:
XD
Click to expand...
I covered most of this earlier in the thread.
Livinmeme said:
Vaporizes human, sheeps and demoman. but Demoman part i think is a joke but there it goes
Click to expand...
It's not a joke if mercenaries are vaporized by it in game.

Livinmeme said:
and a rela calc

IDK if is rigth or even if its valid but there
Click to expand...
This wouldn't be valid as per this thread, which you participated in.

I'd like this thread to come to a vote at this point so I can get to the canon discussion thread, too much is happening here for it to be reasonably taken note of when users are posting multiple things at once.
 
Livinmeme said:
1. bringing these calcs to calc
2. and i debunked several of them and i am just brining out feats and my recent arguments arent toward he/she is in general
3. i cant just stop debating because she isnt debating
Click to expand...
Are you not aware of how debates work? It isn't just an endless litany from one side whilst the other goes and lives their lives. A debate is a discussion. Not a war. A back and forth. Statement and response. You can stop until a response is had. Or try to be more concise, less rambly? Either way, the constant spam on the thread is annoying.
 
And i said IDK as i was just posting to see if it was valid

and also you didnt go to much deep for the calcs and that is only like 40% of the calcs i posted and you seen to agree with most of them and the last, also

Most of the results for that are 9-B, given that I also calculated a TFC explosion to that exact level already on someone else's calc for it.
Click to expand...
is for the heavy grenade not the generic grenade two things diferents and is a kinda of a recalc so it makes sense on why is diferent
 
That was 2016, its surely outdated and apparently its said to be calc stacking.

At least focus on these sheesh:
Click to expand...
1. We dont know if its wrong so is just a asumption and it will be safer to re calc it instead of saying is old so is wrong
2.even without the calc staking is still 8-C
 
Abstractions said:
I covered most of this earlier in the thread.

It's not a joke if mercenaries are vaporized by it in game.


This wouldn't be valid as per this thread, which you participated in.

~I'd like this thread to come to a vote at this point so I can get to the canon discussion thread, too much is happening here for it to be reasonably taken note of when users are posting multiple things at once.
Click to expand...
Not yet, User: Rtxthegamer said he was going to pack some things here some time by now. For now lets not derail anymore and at the very least have decency to wait for the said user to respond.
 
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E said:
Not yet, User: Rtxthegamer said he was going to pack some things here some time by now. For now lets not derail and at the very least have decency to wait for the said user to respond.
Click to expand...
He's free to tackle the canon discussion and answer my question like I asked earlier, I'm not saying no to that. What I want is the derailing to stop and the constant barrage of messages blocking actual discussion to cease.
 
Abstractions said:
He's free to tackle the canon discussion and answer my question like I asked earlier, I'm not saying no to that. What I want is the derailing to stop and the constant barrage of messages blocking actual discussion to cease.
Click to expand...
I was just spamming calcs but okay

it that was directed to me of course
 
Ignoring whatever tf is happening in this thread currently, Before I get into my long paragraph, to answer Abstraction's question, by using the same assets, I'm saying that it cannot exaggerate ingame feats (like rocket explosions, robot sizes, or whatever), since the assets used in the SFM animations and the game are quite literally, the same. I wasn't referring to stuff like game mechanics or whatever, just the assets.

I will also replace this stuff for the OP, since its much better organized. Now, onto my main paragraph(s)

Addressing the whole "dramatization" argument/canon stuff​

The quote being used to argue that gameplay is non-canon is from the Catch-Up Comic, where Saxton Hale says this:

"THE ENSUING LAND WAR HAS GONE ON FOR A HUNDRED AND TWENTY YEARS NOW - AS DRAMATIZED IN THE DOCUMENTARY VIDEO GAME TEAM FORTRESS 2!"
Click to expand...

However, there are several issues with this. Starting with the fact that this entire comic is just supposed to be giant fourth wall break. The main point of this comic is to catch up the reader (aka us) on significant events that have happened in the TF story line. What further supports this is the fact that Mann Co. doesn't even make or sell video games. Were this an in universe comic, this would make absolutely no sense. Not to mention the very last page literally has Saxton Hale telling the reader to click to go to the next page. So this really just seems to be a nod to the game and reader, rather than Valve telling everyone "HEY THE GAME IS NON CANON BTW". either way its not like valve gives a sht about TF2 let alone its canon

Also, the word "dramatized" can have several definitions. Yes, it can mean exaggerating, but it can also just mean adapting an event into something, like a book or play. In this case, its a videogame. Not to mention, it is also supposed to be a "documentary video game", which means that its supposed to be, well documentary.

What I'm trying to say is that this sentence by itself can have numerous meanings, and it doesn't necessarily mean that it is exaggerating events in the TF2 storyline, but rather it can also mean documenting them by adapting it into a video game. Considering the fact that dramatized doesn't necessarily mean exaggeration, and the fact that its stated to be a documentary video game, even assuming that this is anything more than a simple 4th wall break, gameplay being exaggerated seems unlikely at best.

Perhaps one of the biggest things that shows dramatized =/= exaggeration in TF2 is that TF2 itself doesn't equate the two words; Quite the opposite actually. This is shown in the comic, "The Insult That Made A "Jarate Master" Out of Sniper". This is what is said in the comic:

"IT IS NOT COMPLICATED! How do I know? I am from AUSTRALIA! And the events dramatized in the comic above actually happened... TO ME! Remember that part between panels four and five? That was not time lapse magic! I kicked a chair across the room, and seconds later I knew Jarate! NOW YOU CAN TOO!"
Click to expand...

This clearly shows that TF2 doesn't equate dramatized to exaggeration. It clearly shows in this comic, that despite it being called "dramatized", it actually happened. The comic goes into detail how it happened the same way it is portrayed in the comics, like when it says that the "time lapse" between panels four and five wasn't time lapse, but rather Sniper learning Jarate in a matter of seconds. This shows that even though it was described as being "dramatized", nothing in the comic was an exaggeration, and the events in the comics literally happened the same way the event unfolded.

Now, does this say anything about the Video Game TF2? No. But what it does show is that the word "dramatized" doesn't inherently mean exaggeration in TF2. Going by it's actual definitions, and how TF2 uses the word directly shows that their use of the word doesn't mean exaggeration.

Coupled with the fact that again, A. SFM (aka the TF2 videos) literally uses the same assets as TF2, so they literally use the same models and animations, and visible feats like explosions and what not are literally impossible to exaggerate there, B. The comics, as well as some other stuff confirming some in game stuff being canon (like Jarate making enemies take extra damage), C. An actual video recording from Expiration Date literally showing gameplay footage, even while assuming that the Catch-Up comic isn't just a fourth wall break, it shows that the game is supposed to be an accurate recreation of the events that happened in the TF2 Storyline. Hence why its called a "documentary" video game. And by accurate, I mean practically the same due to the previous reasons. (Not including game mechanics/glitches, obviously. Source Spaghet still haunts me to this day)

So unless there is solid proof that gameplay is exaggerated to the point of unusability, this line on its own means nothing when literally everything points the other direction, and that the word "dramatized" doesn't even inherently mean "exaggeration", going by both its actual definitions, and TF2 itself not equating the two, and even going as far as to say that a "dramatized event" happening the exact same way portrayed in the comic. So in short, we should just treat TF2 ingame stuff the same way we do for literally any other verse.

And while we are on the topic of canon, I'd figured I'd bring up community created stuff. Just because something is community created doesn't inherently mean its non-canon. Community created stuff has been shown to be canon, like the Huo Long Heater, a community-created weapon, which is shown in the comics. Like a VERY LARGE portion of the game is community created. (or the spycrab) That being said, it isn't to say EVERYTHING is canon, but I'm just saying that being community created isn't enough to warrant it being non-canon by itself. It should be a case-by-case basis.

Arguments for 9-A​


Here are a list of feats that are going to support my 9-A argument as I explain them further down:

Pre-MvM:
  1. Soldier Rockets (0.00165 tons)
  2. Scout survives an explosion (0.007 tons)
MvM/Post MvM
  1. Sir Nukesalot's Explosions (0.0248 tons)
  2. Giants surviving Sentry Buster Explosions (0.09486 tons)
  3. Pyro (possibly) survives an explosion (0.0658 tons)
Soldier Rockets:

So to start off small, lets take a look at Soldier's Rockets. They are listed as 0.00165 tons individually atm. Now you might say that this is just Wall level, and you would be correct. However, the baseline for Small Building level is 0.005 tons. If we divide 0.005 by 0.00165, we get approximately that baseline 9-A is 3.03 x superior to Soldier Rockets. Baseline 9-A is just barely 3 times superior to Soldier Rockets.
If we take a look at Meet the Soldier, we see Soldier casually tank one with no issues whatsoever. He didn't even flinch or take any noticeable damage. This is consistent with the fact that Soldier can casually one-shot ordinary people, who in the past, all had to rocket jump to get to the second floor. However, this in itself is a supporting feat, as, well its just a 9-B feat. What I'm trying to say is that Soldier is far superior to, and can casually tank something that is only around 3 times less than baseline 9-A.

Meet the Medic Explosion:

Now, lets look at the infamous Scout feat. As seen in this video, Scout survives an explosion, which has been calced at 0.007 tons. A common argument against this is that Scout doesn't scale to the explosion, since he nearly died.
However, there are several issues with this. Starting with the fact that Scout was already injured beforehand as seen by his bruises and bandages, and how he took a direct rocket beforehand. Despite this, Scout actually wasn't in critical condition from the explosion itself, but only got knocked out after hitting his face on the window. This is shown by Scout literally screaming at the top of his lungs and flailing his limps like crazy, rather than just being like this after being hit by the explosion. Someone that "nearly died" from the explosion itself would barely be conscious, let alone be able to move their limbs around like crazy without issue.
On top of all of this, Scout is heavily implied to be the weakest Mercenary physically. Seeing how Soldier casually overpowers Scout on several occasions. Not to mention, Scout is the only merc that is unable to instantly destroy the Yeti prop. It would also explain his insecurity about his strength. So despite Scout, the weakest mercenary physically being injured beforehand, was able to survive a 9-A explosion. And I already showed how he wasn't knocked out by the explosion itself, but only after he hit his face on the glass. This is consistent with the former feat of Soldier being unharmed by an explosion 3x weaker than baseline 9-A.

Even if we only used the calc that resulted in 0.004 tons, my point still stands as, well I mean cmon. Its less than 0.001 tons away from baseline 9-A.

Sir Nukesalot's Explosions:

Now, lets take a look at Sir Nukesalot's explosions. I know an argument against this will be that the mercs don't scale to it since they get one-shot by it. And, well you would actually be right about that. The base mercenaries get one-shot by his bombs. However, the Mercs with resistances ARE able to survive them. Well, kinda.
The thing about the Loose Cannon is that ingame, the damage is pretty inconsistent, and there is stuff like damage fall off involved. But assuming that the Mercs have full blast, and crit resistance, while right on top of the Bomb, as seen in this video, it deals around 149 damage. So The Soldier, Demoman, Pyro, Medic, Engineer (with the Gunslinger, but he always has it equipped anyways since he replaced one of his hands with it), and Heavy should all be able to survive it. And the 2nd Explosion in the video (while not right on top of the bomb, its pretty close) it deals around 118 damage, which is enough for all classes to survive, sans a Sandman Scout, and Big Earner or Kunai Spy.
And yes, the Upgrades are probably canon, since A: The Projectile Shield, an Upgrade in MvM is literally shown in The Sound of Medicine, B: There are voicelines where the Administrator tells the Mercs to get to an upgrade station, and C: There being posters explaining the Upgrades, and it being confirmed there are upgrade stations in Mann. Co Buildings. Mind you, most of the posters you see are a direct continuation of the MvM Comic, with either Saxton or Soldier explaining them in some of the posters. And I've already explained how gameplay is canon previously.

Either way, even if the Upgrades aren't canon, what this shows is that the base mercs on their own are capable of surviving 9-A (0.007 tons), or near baseline 9-A (0.004 tons) explosions, and with upgrades, can survive explosions higher into 9-A (0.0248 tons), which shows its consistent.

Sentry Busters:

This one is fairly straight forward. Even if the Mercs themselves cannot survive Sentry Buster explosions, some of the weakest Giant Robots can, like the Giant Scout seen in this video. And as also seen in the video, the Mercs can harm and kill said Giants.
It might look like the Scout got harmed by the Demo's Stickies, but if you look at it frame by frame, you can actually see that it got harmed right as the Sentry Buster exploded.

Pyro Surviving an Explosion

This one is frankly more of a supporting feat. In the Comics, Pyro survived an explosion that has been recalced, and accepted as 0.0658 tons, which is Small Building level. An argument against this may be that Pyro may not even have been in the building, but that cannot be the case.
For starters, Pyro was in the building in the last panel we saw him before the building exploded. In the panel right after, we see the outside of the building, but Pyro is nowhere to be seen. Since the Building is in a close off space, there is no possible way he could've gotten out the back or anything, as, well it's closed off. And most importantly, to assume that he escaped the building would be HEAVILY out of character for Pyro. Pyro LOVES fire, and he sees it as rainbows and happiness, not to mention seeing everyone, including enemies as friendly babies. So assuming he strategically escaped the building to avoid the fire, is not only unrealistic, but heavily contradictory to his character.
Now one argument I won't deny is that we don't know where exactly he was in the building when it exploded, whether he jumped down or not. I personally think he probably did, since he sees enemies as friendly babies, he is very much a "in your face" kind of class, and the fact that it would be hard to point something long like the flamethrower in the position he is without falling down, or being in an awkward position. But again, I don't have proof of this, and he very well could've stayed in the position he was last seen in.
Another argument that may be made against this is that this is much further into 9-A making it inconsistent. Well, for starters, this is AFTER the events of MvM, so the mercenaries very well could've gotten stronger by the end of the Robot War. Another thing to bring up is that the fact they are Soulless, which may or may not be a factor in how they got stronger. TFC Heavy states that the TF2 Mercs are basically complete jokes, which leaves him incredibly confused as to how they (the TFC mercs) are losing. Medic later explains that the reason they (the TF2 mercs) won is because they don't have souls. The fact that they got stronger as a result of losing their souls seems likely, since well TFC Heavy did state that the Mercs were complete jokes in the Mercenary world, and prior to facing the TF2 team, beat a stronger group personally hired by the Administrator, which left the Administrator with just "the rejects". This implies that Medic stole their souls probably sometime around the events of Mann vs Machine, as the Mercenaries wouldn't really be considered jokes if they were this powerful during the events of the Gravel Wars.

TL;DR:

So we can see that TF2 has plenty of 9-A feats which aren't outliers. For starters, Scout, the weakest mercenary physically, who was injured was able to survive a near baseline 9-A explosion (regardless of which calc you use), which is consistent with Soldier being completely unscathed by explosions that are only around 3x weaker than baseline 9-A, and him casually being able to overpower Scout, and one-shot people who all had to rocket jump to get to the 2nd floor in the past. This is also consistent with the Mercenaries being able to survive explosions by Sir Nukesalot, which are higher into 9-A if they have resistances. We also see other 9-A feats like them being able to harm and kill giants, which can survive Sentry Buster Explosions. Last but not least, the Mercenaries are implied to have been amped by having their souls removed, as they were considered complete jokes in the mercenary world, yet were able to defeat the Classic Team, who killed a stronger group hired by the administrator.

Even if we remove all gameplay feats, we still have a concrete 9-A feat from Scout in Meet the Medic, which is consistent with Soldier casually tanking explosions only 3x weaker than baseline 9-A. There is also the supporting feat of Pyro potentially surviving a higher-into 9-A explosion, which is consistent with Scout, the weakest mercenary, while injured could survive the 9-A explosion, so if he was at his peak, he would be able to take it better. And again, they are implied to have been amped by being soulless.
 
Last edited:
Rtxthegamer said:
Ignoring whatever tf is happening in this thread currently, Before I get into my long paragraph, to answer Abstraction's question, by using the same assets, I'm saying that it cannot exaggerate ingame feats (like rocket explosions, robot sizes, or whatever), since the assets used in the SFM animations and the game are quite literally, the same. I wasn't referring to stuff like game mechanics or whatever, just the assets.

I will also replace this stuff for the OP, since its much better organized. Now, onto my main paragraph(s)

Addressing the whole "dramatization" argument/canon stuff​

The quote being used to argue that gameplay is non-canon is from the Catch-Up Comic, where Saxton Hale says this:



However, there are several issues with this. Starting with the fact that this entire comic is just supposed to be giant fourth wall break. The main point of this comic is to catch up the reader (aka us) on significant events that have happened in the TF story line. What further supports this is the fact that Mann Co. doesn't even make or sell video games. Were this an in universe comic, this would make absolutely no sense. Not to mention the very last page literally has Saxton Hale telling the reader to click to go to the next page. So this really just seems to be a nod to the game and reader, rather than Valve telling everyone "HEY THE GAME IS NON CANON BTW". either way its not like valve gives a sht about TF2 let alone its canon

Also, the word "dramatized" can have several definitions. Yes, it can mean exaggerating, but it can also just mean adapting an event into something, like a book or play. In this case, its a videogame. Not to mention, it is also supposed to be a "documentary video game", which means that its supposed to be, well documentary.

What I'm trying to say is that this sentence by itself can have numerous meanings, and it doesn't necessarily mean that it is exaggerating events in the TF2 storyline, but rather it can also mean documenting them by adapting it into a video game. Considering the fact that dramatized doesn't necessarily mean exaggeration, and the fact that its stated to be a documentary video game, even assuming that this is anything more than a simple 4th wall break, gameplay being exaggerated seems unlikely at best.

Perhaps one of the biggest things that shows dramatized =/= exaggeration in TF2 is that TF2 itself doesn't equate the two words; Quite the opposite actually. This is shown in the comic, "The Insult That Made A "Jarate Master" Out of Sniper". This is what is said in the comic:



This clearly shows that TF2 doesn't equate dramatized to exaggeration. It clearly shows in this comic, that despite it being called "dramatized", it actually happened. The comic goes into detail how it happened the same way it is portrayed in the comics, like when it says that the "time lapse" between panels four and five wasn't time lapse, but rather Sniper learning Jarate in a matter of seconds. This shows that even though it was described as being "dramatized", nothing in the comic was an exaggeration, and the events in the comics literally happened the same way the event unfolded.

Now, does this say anything about the Video Game TF2? No. But what it does show is that the word "dramatized" doesn't inherently mean exaggeration in TF2. Going by it's actual definitions, and how TF2 uses the word directly shows that their use of the word doesn't mean exaggeration.

Coupled with the fact that again, A. SFM (aka the TF2 videos) literally uses the same assets as TF2, so they literally use the same models and animations, and visible feats like explosions and what not are literally impossible to exaggerate there, B. The comics, as well as some other stuff confirming some in game stuff being canon (like Jarate making enemies take extra damage), C. An actual video recording from Expiration Date literally showing gameplay footage, even while assuming that the Catch-Up comic isn't just a fourth wall break, it shows that the game is supposed to be an accurate recreation of the events that happened in the TF2 Storyline. Hence why its called a "documentary" video game. And by accurate, I mean practically the same due to the previous reasons. (Not including game mechanics/glitches, obviously. Source Spaghet still haunts me to this day)

So unless there is solid proof that gameplay is exaggerated to the point of unusability, this line on its own means nothing when literally everything points the other direction, and that the word "dramatized" doesn't even inherently mean "exaggeration", going by both its actual definitions, and TF2 itself not equating the two, and even going as far as to say that a "dramatized event" happening the exact same way portrayed in the comic. So in short, we should just treat TF2 ingame stuff the same way we do for literally any other verse.

And while we are on the topic of canon, I'd figured I'd bring up community created stuff. Just because something is community created doesn't inherently mean its non-canon. Community created stuff has been shown to be canon, like the Huo Long Heater, a community-created weapon, which is shown in the comics. Like a VERY LARGE portion of the game is community created. (or the spycrab) That being said, it isn't to say EVERYTHING is canon, but I'm just saying that being community created isn't enough to warrant it being non-canon by itself. It should be a case-by-case basis.

Arguments for 9-A​


Here are a list of feats that are going to support my 9-A argument as I explain them further down:

Pre-MvM:
  1. Soldier Rockets (0.00165 tons)
  2. Scout survives an explosion (0.007 tons)
MvM/Post MvM
  1. Sir Nukesalot's Explosions (0.0248 tons)
  2. Giants surviving Sentry Buster Explosions (0.09486 tons)
  3. Pyro (possibly) survives an explosion (0.0658 tons)
Soldier Rockets:

So to start off small, lets take a look at Soldier's Rockets. They are listed as 0.00165 tons individually atm. Now you might say that this is just Wall level, and you would be correct. However, the baseline for Small Building level is 0.005 tons. If we divide 0.005 by 0.00165, we get approximately that baseline 9-A is 3.03 x superior to Soldier Rockets. Baseline 9-A is just barely 3 times superior to Soldier Rockets.
If we take a look at Meet the Soldier, we see Soldier casually tank one with no issues whatsoever. He didn't even flinch or take any noticeable damage. This is consistent with the fact that Soldier can casually one-shot ordinary people, who in the past, all had to rocket jump to get to the second floor. However, this in itself is a supporting feat, as, well its just a 9-B feat. What I'm trying to say is that Soldier is far superior to, and can casually tank something that is only around 3 times less than baseline 9-A.

Meet the Medic Explosion:

Now, lets look at the infamous Scout feat. As seen in this video, Scout survives an explosion, which has been calced at 0.007 tons. A common argument against this is that Scout doesn't scale to the explosion, since he nearly died.
However, there are several issues with this. Starting with the fact that Scout was already injured beforehand as seen by his bruises and bandages, and how he took a direct rocket beforehand. Despite this, Scout actually wasn't in critical condition from the explosion itself, but only got knocked out after hitting his face on the window. This is shown by Scout literally screaming at the top of his lungs and flailing his limps like crazy, rather than just being like this after being hit by the explosion. Someone that "nearly died" from the explosion itself would barely be conscious, let alone be able to move their limbs around like crazy without issue.
On top of all of this, Scout is heavily implied to be the weakest Mercenary physically. Seeing how Soldier casually overpowers Scout on several occasions. Not to mention, Scout is the only merc that is unable to instantly destroy the Yeti prop. It would also explain his insecurity about his strength. So despite Scout, the weakest mercenary physically being injured beforehand, was able to survive a 9-A explosion. And I already showed how he wasn't knocked out by the explosion itself, but only after he hit his face on the glass. This is consistent with the former feat of Soldier being unharmed by an explosion 3x weaker than baseline 9-A.

Even if we only used the calc that resulted in 0.004 tons, my point still stands as, well I mean cmon. Its less than 0.001 tons away from baseline 9-A.

Sir Nukesalot's Explosions:

Now, lets take a look at Sir Nukesalot's explosions. I know an argument against this will be that the mercs don't scale to it since they get one-shot by it. And, well you would actually be right about that. The base mercenaries get one-shot by his bombs. However, the Mercs with resistances ARE able to survive them. Well, kinda.
The thing about the Loose Cannon is that ingame, the damage is pretty inconsistent, and there is stuff like damage fall off involved. But assuming that the Mercs have full blast, and crit resistance, while right on top of the Bomb, as seen in this video, it deals around 149 damage. So The Soldier, Demoman, Pyro, Medic, Engineer (with the Gunslinger, but he always has it equipped anyways since he replaced one of his hands with it), and Heavy should all be able to survive it. And the 2nd Explosion in the video (while not right on top of the bomb, its pretty close) it deals around 118 damage, which is enough for all classes to survive, sans a Sandman Scout, and Big Earner or Kunai Spy.
And yes, the Upgrades are probably canon, since A: The Projectile Shield, an Upgrade in MvM is literally shown in The Sound of Medicine, B: There are voicelines where the Administrator tells the Mercs to get to an upgrade station, and C: There being posters explaining the Upgrades, and it being confirmed there are upgrade stations in Mann. Co Buildings. Mind you, most of the posters you see are a direct continuation of the MvM Comic, with either Saxton or Soldier explaining them in some of the posters. And I've already explained how gameplay is canon previously.

Either way, even if the Upgrades aren't canon, what this shows is that the base mercs on their own are capable of surviving 9-A (0.007 tons), or near baseline 9-A (0.004 tons) explosions, and with upgrades, can survive explosions higher into 9-A (0.0248 tons), which shows its consistent.

Sentry Busters:

This one is fairly straight forward. Even if the Mercs themselves cannot survive Sentry Buster explosions, some of the weakest Giant Robots can, like the Giant Scout seen in this video. And as also seen in the video, the Mercs can harm and kill said Giants.
It might look like the Scout got harmed by the Demo's Stickies, but if you look at it frame by frame, you can actually see that it got harmed right as the Sentry Buster exploded.

Pyro Surviving an Explosion

This one is frankly more of a supporting feat. In the Comics, Pyro survived an explosion that has been recalced, and accepted as 0.0658 tons, which is Small Building level. An argument against this may be that Pyro may not even have been in the building, but that cannot be the case.
For starters, Pyro was in the building in the last panel we saw him before the building exploded. In the panel right after, we see the outside of the building, but Pyro is nowhere to be seen. Since the Building is in a close off space, there is no possible way he could've gotten out the back or anything, as, well it's closed off. And most importantly, to assume that he escaped the building would be HEAVILY out of character for Pyro. Pyro LOVES fire, and he sees it as rainbows and happiness, not to mention seeing everyone, including enemies as friendly babies. So assuming he strategically escaped the building to avoid the fire, is not only unrealistic, but heavily contradictory to his character.
Now one argument I won't deny is that we don't know where exactly he was in the building when it exploded, whether he jumped down or not. I personally think he probably did, since he sees enemies as friendly babies, he is very much a "in your face" kind of class, and the fact that it would be hard to point something long like the flamethrower in the position he is without falling down, or being in an awkward position. But again, I don't have proof of this, and he very well could've stayed in the position he was last seen in.
Another argument that may be made against this is that this is much further into 9-A making it inconsistent. Well, for starters, this is AFTER the events of MvM, so the mercenaries very well could've gotten stronger by the end of the Robot War. Another thing to bring up is that the fact they are Soulless, which may or may not be a factor in how they got stronger. TFC Heavy states that the TF2 Mercs are basically complete jokes, which leaves him incredibly confused as to how they (the TFC mercs) are losing. Medic later explains that the reason they (the TF2 mercs) won is because they don't have souls. The fact that they got stronger as a result of losing their souls seems likely, since well TFC Heavy did state that the Mercs were complete jokes in the Mercenary world, and prior to facing the TF2 team, beat a stronger group personally hired by the Administrator, which left the Administrator with just "the rejects". This implies that Medic stole their souls probably sometime around the events of Mann vs Machine, as the Mercenaries wouldn't really be considered jokes if they were this powerful during the events of the Gravel Wars.

TL;DR:

So we can see that TF2 has plenty of 9-A feats which aren't outliers. For starters, Scout, the weakest mercenary physically, who was injured was able to survive a near baseline 9-A explosion (regardless of which calc you use), which is consistent with Soldier being completely unscathed by explosions that are only around 3x weaker than baseline 9-A, and him casually being able to overpower Scout, and one-shot people who all had to rocket jump to get to the 2nd floor in the past. This is also consistent with the Mercenaries being able to survive explosions by Sir Nukesalot, which are higher into 9-A if they have resistances. We also see other 9-A feats like them being able to harm and kill giants, which can survive Sentry Buster Explosions. Last but not least, the Mercenaries are implied to have been amped by having their souls removed, as they were considered complete jokes in the mercenary world, yet were able to defeat the Classic Team, who killed a stronger group hired by the administrator.

Even if we remove all gameplay feats, we still have a concrete 9-A feat from Scout in Meet the Medic, which is consistent with Soldier casually tanking explosions only 3x weaker than baseline 9-A. There is also the supporting feat of Pyro potentially surviving a higher-into 9-A explosion, which is consistent with Scout, the weakest mercenary, while injured could survive the 9-A explosion, so if he was at his peak, he would be able to take it better. And again, they are implied to have been amped by being soulless.
Click to expand...
Also the meet the demoman in the beggining has a 9-A feat and jungle inferno has another 9-A feat so... yeah
 
Also i was going to post something like that in the TF2 contiunity separation but i got kicked out of existence for one day so if someone can post this for me and credit it will be very cool but if is against the rules then dont

e
 
Livinmeme said:
Also i was going to post something like that in the TF2 contiunity separation but i got kicked out of existence for one day so if someone can post this for me and credit it will be very cool but if is against the rules then dont

e
Click to expand...
Do not post multiple times at once and more importantly do not ask someone to make a post for you just to evade a thread ban.
 
Oh, sorry if that’s a bit off topic, but there’s Saxton Hale slamming Scout through a metal door and making an Australia shaped hole in it in jungle inferno trailer. Should be worth calcing
 
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