Swirl of The Root - Nasuverse

[Deagonx]

Jesus christ. Read all the scans dude.

Well that's super helpful.

Anyways, count me as a disagree. The evidence hasn't supported your argument.

 

[Tdjwo]

Religion is pretty philosophical in nature, but that’s a separate topic. Ion’s point still stands

What? No. Christianity is purely Religious. Islam is the same. Taoism is more of a philosophy than a religion. And the Nasuverse treats it that way because even the root apparently trascends religion as a whole in the verse.

 

[Tdjwo]

Do they? What's the evidence of that?

Pretty sure I explained it with the origin stuff.

 

[Tdjwo]

Well that's super helpful.

Anyways, count me as a disagree. The evidence hasn't supported your argument.

Disagreeing out of either not understanding the topic at all or just choosing to ignore blatant contexts is outright ludicrous.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

every possible dimensions in the verse.

Mistranslation.

 

[Tdjwo]

Mistranslation.

Every possible space. I know. Still the same thing as you admitted in the past.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Every possible space. I know. Still the same thing as you admitted in the past.

Remove possible.

 

[Tdjwo]

Remove possible.

Ok bro this is unnecessary derailling. We both know its still the same context. Nothing changes except the translation and you know that.

 

[Ionliosite]

Pretty sure I explained it with the origin stuff.

Nothing on that talked about infinite higher dimensions, so, no you haven't.

 

[Tdjwo]

Nothing on that talked about infinite higher dimensions, so, no you haven't.

It talks about origin. Something every single thing has in the Nasuverse.

 

[Tarang123]

What? No. Christianity is purely Religious. Islam is the same. Taoism is more of a philosophy than a religion. And the Nasuverse treats it that way because even the root apparently trascends religion as a whole in the verse.

I mean that there’s philosophy behind the very purpose of religion to begin with (creating meaning in the world)

 

[Tdjwo]

I mean that there’s philosophy behind the very purpose of religion to begin with (creating meaning in the world)

Except Taoism is literally more philosophical than religious.

 

[Theoretical]

Tbh i think we should not use this argument . Apparently it has alternate interpretations

That's not an alternative interpretation that's supporting evidence

 

[Theoretical]

But [] itself isn’t compared to absolute infinity so it’s still a stretch

Bro showed like 10+ scans of Tao having 1-1 correspondence with the root and that's still a stretch.

Unless you think Tao doesn't have anything compared to absolute infinity (it's totally not like they don't directly state it is)

 

[Theoretical]

Anyways I disagree with the thread, all wank nasuverse should be high 1-C.

 

[Tdjwo]

Anyways I disagree with the thread, all wank nasuverse should be high 1-C.

Lol

 

[Tarang123]

Bro showed like 10+ scans of Tao having 1-1 correspondence with the root and that's still a stretch.

Unless you think Tao doesn't have anything compared to absolute infinity (it's totally not like they don't directly state it is)

You’re upgrading it off something not substantiated by the verse (the absolute infinity stuff). Therefore, it’s a stretch. Nobody’s saying there aren’t Taoist references in the Nasuverse, but upgrading a verse off something never stated in it is absurd to me. It really is

 

[Tarang123]

Except Taoism is literally more philosophical than religious.

Doesn’t exactly change what I said (which wasn’t exactly relevant to begin with)

 

[Deagonx]

You’re upgrading it off something not substantiated by the verse (the absolute infinity stuff). Therefore, it’s a stretch. Nobody’s saying there aren’t Taoist references in the Nasuverse, but upgrading a verse off something never stated in it is absurd to me. It really is

Couldn't have said it better myself. If it's in the verse, we don't need to know it's in Taoism, just show us where it is in the verse. If it isn't in the verse, it doesn't matter if it's in Taoism.

 

[Tdjwo]

You’re upgrading it off something not substantiated by the verse (the absolute infinity stuff). Therefore, it’s a stretch. Nobody’s saying there aren’t Taoist references in the Nasuverse, but upgrading a verse off something never stated in it is absurd to me. It really is

Absolute infinity wasn't explicitly stated in the verse, but the context is the exact same, as well as how identical they are based on the same philosophy and how all the descriptions regarding the infinity depiction looks identical, I think it would be unjust to dismiss it solely because the word "Absolute Infinity" wasn't mentioned despite admitting that [ ] is literally what tao is.

 

[Tdjwo]

Doesn’t exactly change what I said (which wasn’t exactly relevant to begin with)

You and that other guy were the one calling Taoism a religion in order to disregard the justifications despite it being more of a philosophy. If you knew it wasn't relevant, why bring it up in the first place?

 

[Tarang123]

Absolute infinity wasn't explicitly stated in the verse, but the context is the exact same, as well as how identical they are based on the same philosophy and how all the descriptions regarding the infinity depiction looks identical, I think it would be unjust to dismiss it solely because the word "Absolute Infinity" wasn't mentioned despite admitting that [ ] is literally what tao is.

It’s not though. It’s never implied to be absolute infinity or anything like that. Your scans only really make a dictinxtion between the root and infinite stuff but that doesn’t seem good enough to be High 1A.

As well as that, I do have to note that I’m fairly certain that the verse has to have evidence of things like Absolute Infinity along with the aleph stuff in order for it to get a High 1A rating, as that’s what happened with Unsong. Could be wrong on this tho

 

[Tarang123]

You and that other guy were the one calling Taoism a religion in order to disregard the justifications despite it being more of a philosophy. If you knew it wasn't relevant, why bring it up in the first place?

I said it in the first place that bringing external stuff not directly part of the work doesn’t help in upgrading the work. Religion, philosophy, ****, etc. it doesn’t matter what it is. If it’s not directly in the verse then there’s no point on using it to upgrade the verse

 

[Tdjwo]

It’s not though. It’s never implied to be absolute infinity or anything like that. Your scans only really make a dictinxtion between the root and infinite stuff but that doesn’t seem good enough to be High 1A.

Not really. The scan is basically telling us how infinity can only be infinity if it's [ ] because it's the absolute true infinity.

As well as that, I do have to note that I’m fairly certain that the verse has to have evidence of things like Absolute Infinity along with the aleph stuff in order for it to get a High 1A rating, as that’s what happened with Unsong. Could be wrong on this tho

Thay's kinda picky to me tbh. If a verse shows something works exactly the same as a mathematical theory without specifically mentioning what it is, as long as the context is clear, it should be given the same tier a verse that mention the name of that theory would have gotten.
We recognize that tao= [ ] both in descriptions and how they work and it's also directly referenced to be the case in the verse and also has identical quotes regarding infinity. And Taoism infinite is considered identical to Cantor's Absolute Infinity. There's o reason to seperate whatever decision given to Tao from [ ] since we know they are the same in everyday and just because absolute infinity isn't mentioned specifically in the verse doesn't automatically disregard the excess of amounts of proofs of Tao being identical to [ ]. I personally think such a rule Is unnecessary.

 

[Deagonx]

I'm not sure how much more productive further back and forth is going to be. We should wait for more staff input, but given that we're already 0-2 the outlook isn't great.

 

[Tdjwo]

I said it in the first place that bringing external stuff not directly part of the work doesn’t help in upgrading the work. Religion, philosophy, ****, etc. it doesn’t matter what it is. If it’s not directly in the verse then there’s no point on using it to upgrade the verse

Taoism is part of the work. It's directly referenced in the verse. It specifically even mentioned it being a component cosmology-wise.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

To assert Nasuverse's use of Taoism also includes or is related to absolute infinity is quite laughable.

This is basically asserting that since a verse uses a philosophical idea that any philosophers interepretation of said philosophical idea also applies which is quite literally a no limits fallacy. Taoism as a school of thought way predates the notion of Cantor's infinity.

You can't just find a random philosopher's interpretation on the subject then slap it onto Nasuverse and saying it applies since Nasuverse also has vague mentions about infinity.

 

[Tdjwo]

This is basically asserting that since a verse uses a philosophical idea that any philosophers interepretation of said philosophical idea also applies which is quite literally a no limits fallacy. Taoism as a school of thought way predates the notion of Cantor's infinity.

Nasuverse isn't just using ideas from Taoism. It's directly implementing its concepts and characteristics into its cosmology. It already made reference to it so we know it isn't just coincidental.
Taoism predicting Absolute infinity means absolutely nothing and it's irrelevant. We predicate the study of higher dimensions but does that mean we humans can't describe higher dimensions? Taoism is compared to Absolute infinity because they both have 1-1 identical characteristics. It has nothing to do with one predicting the other.

You can't just find a random philosopher's interpretation on the subject then slap it onto Nasuverse and saying it applies since Nasuverse also has vague mentions about infinity.

Except those random philosophers are mathematicians as well and they definitely understand what they are talking about compared to one random on vsbw. [ ] is basically Tao and Tao's description of infinity is considered identical to Absolute infinity. Coincidentally, the [ ] is also described similarly to it.

 

[Tarang123]

We recognize that tao= [ ] both in descriptions and how they work and it's also directly referenced to be the case in the verse and also has identical quotes regarding infinity. And Taoism infinite is considered identical to Cantor's Absolute Infinity. There's o reason to seperate whatever decision given to Tao from [ ] since we know they are the same in everyday and just because absolute infinity isn't mentioned specifically in the verse doesn't automatically disregard the excess of amounts of proofs of Tao being identical to [ ]. I personally think such a rule Is unnecessary.

Yes there is tho. While there’s certainly influence of Taoist philosophy in the root, it’s simply strange to upgrade the root off a statement that doesn’t have any good reason to apply to it.

To correct your statement, the root is not proven to be Tao. It is proven to have characteristics of Tao. That doesn’t mean it has all characteristics especially if nothing supports it having all of them

 

[Tarang123]

Taoism is part of the work. It's directly referenced in the verse. It specifically even mentioned it being a component cosmology-wise.

And Taiji is part of Shinza but that didn’t really save the verse from being downgraded did it? Same thing applies here

 

[Tarang123]

Nasuverse isn't just using ideas from Taoism. It's directly implementing its concepts and characteristics into its cosmology. It already made reference to it so we know it isn't just coincidental.

That’s the same thing as using ideas of Taoism. You just repeated what we said. It’s implementing ideas of Taoism. How much it uses depends on what’s in the work

 

[Vietthai96]

There is no such a thing such as Absolute Infinity in Nasuverse, the only thing i agree is 1-A Root due to it using Taoism and Apophatic Theology, also why you separate Roots and 「　」, Root is just a name to refer to 「　」, since it can't be described thus people decide to....eh......called it with a "reduced" name such as Root, Akasha. Those are just name, it actually is 「　」thus there is no such a thing as 「　」> Roots, Akasha

 

[Tdjwo]

Yes there is tho. While there’s certainly influence of Taoist philosophy in the root, it’s simply strange to upgrade the root off a statement that doesn’t have any good reason to apply to it.

The statement from it and the Tao infinity are identical. It's cosmology is the same as well.

To correct your statement, the root is not proven to be Tao. It is proven to have characteristics of Tao. That doesn’t mean it has all characteristics especially if nothing supports it having all of them

Not really. The root is infact Tao and this is shown already. It's called "Emptiness" just like [ ]. It has a subversion (tao) just like swirl of the root. Every characteristics about Tao is found in the root. I mean, it's directly stated in the verse that it's gotten from the Chinese cosmology of onmyodo. What more does it need to prove that Taoism is literally what the root is?

And Taiji is part of Shinza but that didn’t really save the verse from being downgraded did it? Same thing applies here

Whatever's part of Shinza doesn't concern me. It depends on how well Shinza uses such philosophy plus if it's referenced to the real life aspect(ie, if it'd stated to be from the actual Chinese cosmology rather than some inverse stuff).

That’s the same thing as using ideas of Taoism. You just repeated what we said. It’s implementing ideas of Taoism. How much it uses depends on what’s in the work

Raather than you saying "using ideas", it embodying the whole concept of Taoism itself and going as far as categorizing the types of Tao (constant/eternal) into its cosmology seems better for context.

 

[Tdjwo]

There is no such a thing such as Absolute Infinity in Nasuverse, the only thing i agree is 1-A Root due to it using Taoism and Apophatic Theology, also why you separate Roots and 「　」, Root is just a name to refer to 「　」, since it can't be described thus people decide to....eh......called it with a "reduced" name such as Root, Akasha. Those are just name, it actually is 「　」thus there is no such a thing as 「　」> Roots, Akasha

I wouldn't even waste my time replying you since it's clear you didn't read anything in the CRT. Your comment breeds ignorance. [ ] and the root are not the same.

 

[Tdjwo]

Also, @Tarang123 if you want to reply me, make it into a single comment box. Theres no need to make multiple comments in different comment boxes.

 

[Tarang123]

The statement from it and the Tao infinity are identical. It's cosmology is the same as well

What’s the logic behind the Tao shit being absolute infinity in the mathematical sense? Cause I do have to stress that something being called a “true infinity” does not make it the mathematical absolute infinity.

Not really. The root is infact Tao and this is already. It's called "Emptiness" just like [ ]. It has a subversion (tao) just like swirl of the root. Every characteristics about Tao is found in the root. I mean, it's directly stated in the verse that it's gotten from the Chinese cosmology of onmyodo. What more does it need to prove that Taoism is literally what the root is?

No, it takes influence from Tao. There’s a difference. It and Tao are not the same thing and you wouldn’t be able to prove it unless literally every single aspect of the Tao was copy-pasted into Nasuverse when writing the root.

Whatever's part of Shinza doesn't concern me. It depends on how well Shinza uses such philosophy plus if it's referenced to the real life aspect(ie, if it'd stayed to be from the actual Chinese cosmology)

My point was that simply taking influence from philosophy, regardless of how accurate it is, is not a guarantee of a tier.

Raather than you saying "using ideas", it embodying the whole inception of Taoism itself and going as far as categorizing the types of Tao (constant/eternal) into its cosmology seems better for context

But that’s literally what it is. You’re just trying to word it differently but it quite literally is only using ideas of Taoism to emulate the same philosophy.

 

[Tdjwo]

What’s the logic behind the Tao shit being absolute infinity in the mathematical sense? Cause I do have to stress that something being called a “true infinity” does not make it the mathematical absolute infinity.

When I say true infinity, I mean it being absolute because based on what the scan implied, infinity can't really be limitless if there's just going to be an higher level of it. But if the infinity is truly limitless without any other level, then it's not infinity rather, it's [ ].

No, it takes influence from Tao. There’s a difference. It and Tao are not the same thing and you wouldn’t be able to prove it unless literally every single aspect of the Tao was copy-pasted into Nasuverse when writing the root.

I mean, its basically copy pastrd into the writing of the root. Everything mentioned about Taoism cosmology-wise, is reiterated for the root as well. And assiming it wasnt referenced directly, I would have assumed it was just an inverse stuff with different cosmological explanation like Hell's paradise did for example. But it isn't. It's the actual stuff stuff.

My point was that simply taking influence from philosophy, regardless of how accurate it is, is not a guarantee of a tier.

I know that. Which is why I showed step by step explanations on how everything in Tao ties directly to what's shown in Nasuverse.
Tao = Root which is 1A
Eternal Tao = [ ] which is High 1A possibly 0 and I gave justifications.

But that’s literally what it is. You’re just trying to word it differently but it quite literally is only using ideas of Taoism to emulate the same philosophy.

I'm done bruh

 

[Vietthai96]

I wouldn't even waste my time replying you since it's clear you didn't read anything in the CRT. Your comment breeds ignorance. [ ] and the root are not the same.

Oh yeah, saying i didn't read the scans and being ignorance despite i have been supporting the verse for years is......one hell of a counter-argument. How the hell can i make a disagreement if i didn't read the scans??. Anyway nothing in all the scans you posted ever refering to Cantor's Absolute Infinity, let alone mentioned it directly, you made a huge leap in logic that the contexts also includes Absolute Infinity in it.

Also like i said, Root and 「　」is the same, "Root" is just a name that peoples given to 「　」, trying to describe it, nothing even implied Root and 「　」is separate entity/being/place in which 「　」is superior to Root. Also even if i go with your interpretation, then 「　」is 1-A while Root is way lower, because from your interpretation 「　」is what can't not be described and refering to Taoism, not the Root

 

[Tdjwo]

Oh yeah, saying i didn't read the scans and being ignorance despite i have been supporting the verse for years is......one hell of a counter-argument. How the hell can i make a disagreement if i didn't read the scans??. Anyway nothing in all the scans you posted ever refering to Cantor's Absolute Infinity, let alone mentioned it directly, you made a huge leap in logic that the contexts also includes Absolute Infinity in it.

Ok. I already told everyone to forget about the infinity stuff long ago.

Also like i said, Root and 「　」is the same, "Root" is just a name that peoples given to 「　」, trying to describe it, nothing even implied Root and 「　」is separate entity/being/place in which 「　」is superior to Root. Also even if i go with your interpretation, then 「　」is 1-A while Root is way lower, because from your interpretation 「　」is what can't not be described and refering to Taoism, not the Root

Please just stop. Reread the post carefully once more. How can [ ] be the root if it's supposed to represent the oneness of everything that can't be described? Root is describable. They are different. You are the only one right here claiming they are the same despite claiming to have read my post.
Also, I think Root is 1A while [ ] is high 1A.

 

[Tarang123]

Also, I think Root is 1A while [ ] is high 1A.

Kind of said this before but unless High 1B is accepted that isn’t possible