Star Wars Discussion Thread Canon/Legends- Episode V Attack of the Fanons

[Soldier_Blue]

I'm trying to find some references for Hoth. Are there any good ones for some of the ice (not that cutaway one from Complete Vehicles)?

Not that I know of in Canon. Perhaps the Complete Locations guide from Legends (or its Canon iteration)?

 

[ByAsura]

I tried. There's not a good reference in that, unfortunately.

 

[ByAsura]

I just read Victory's Price. There's some good feats in the novel. This goes without saying, but there'll be spoilers.

Blaster cannons melt craters into buildings.

• Keize ran while Quell pursued. The ace of aces used his blaster cannons like a laser cutter, releasing precise volleys that sheared through towers and support pylons, sending sparks and debris tumbling into the depths. With impossible grace he adjusted momentum and angle midflight to swing around pillars and struts. He never hit anything but his targets. He did it all while denying Quell a clear shot at his fighter; her occasional blasts only left scorched, molten craters in the sides of buildings.

TIE Fighters busting similarly sized asteroids very violently. Also, some A-wing crashing into small asteroids with failing deflectors.

• Flare’s and Hail’s TIEs turned to retreat after firing, but the last TIE stayed on course. Wyl could see it ahead of him, its central eye occluded by a passing asteroid. What are you planning? The TIE jinked to one side. Wyl called out a warning to Denish Wraive, but the TIE’s next cannon burst wasn’t aimed at the elderly man’s fighter. Instead the bolts impacted the closest asteroid and shattered it. Wyl could see fragments, shrapnel, exploding toward him, exploding toward Wraive… “Watch out!” he cried, leaning over the console as he gave his thrusters a burst, then pulled up to avoid smashing into another asteroid. Wraive was still alive—still on the scanner, at least—but the TIE had moved on beneath and past him, slipping between rocks for cover as New Republic fighters returned fire. “It’s baiting us!” he said. “Keep on course for the freighter and don’t engage unless necessary!” But the TIE never moved to engage. Instead it continued cracking asteroids. It flickered in and out of scanner visibility as it activated jammers, and Wyl listened to the alarmed cries of his pilots interspersed with static. He prepared to turn back but saw with alarm that he’d outdistanced his comrades—the A-wing had pulled away when the first cloud of shrapnel had separated him from the slower fighters.
• He’d already loosed the weapon. He heard Chass swear and T5 squeal and silence from Nath and Kairos. General Syndulla had time to utter “Quell?” before the TIE activated its jammers again and Wyl was too startled to do anything but watch the exhaust trail of his missile; too startled to notice the exploding asteroid behind him until a granite chunk smashed through his depowered rear deflector and shoved his body into his harness, triggered a blaring alarm. One of his thrusters went out and he was spiraling. A thread of emerald crossed his canopy and he realized the TIE was shooting. Yrica Quell was shooting at him. He tried to wrestle the A-wing back on course, whispering soothing words as if to a spooked animal. His wings batted fist-sized chunks of rock, which initially flashed into dust upon contact with his shields; but as his deflectors failed, the rocks began to ring against his hull.

The Deliverance, a Star Destroyer, crashes into asteroids.

• Wild Nine and Twelve had lost control evading the asteroids; they both went spiraling through the squadron, forcing the other fighters to scatter. The TIE had a clear path back to its freighter now, but Wyl was closer and the Deliverance had accelerated to frightening speed, plowing through the asteroid field and ignoring the rocks that dashed against its deflectors.

A trio of X-wings unleash enough firepower to obliterate a mountaintop.

• She did not act when Garl Lykan, the man Alphabet Squadron had called Snapper, lost power to his port stabilizer and was forced to fall back. She listened to his squadron shout as a trio of X-wings converged on his position and loosed enough cannon fire to obliterate a mountaintop—as if Lykan were singularly responsible for every death Syndulla’s forces had suffered, and the murderous thrashing was richly deserved.

References to Shadow Wing melting cities.

• There was enough pity left in Soran that he took no pleasure in their inevitable deaths, but he did not flinch from his task. He had given the 204th to the likes of Grand Admiral Sloane for a reason, and that reason hadn’t involved any delusions that the Empire might avert its own gradual obliteration. Instead the 204th’s troubles in Cerberon had reaffirmed his belief that Shadow Wing required purpose to survive—and had taught him the moral necessity of looking beyond his own unit and taking responsibility for all Imperial soldiers who crossed his path. Now, purging world after world, he saw his people cleave to the duty they’d been given. When they recruited newcomers into their fold, they celebrated; when they shot down TIE fighters and melted cities, they believed themselves patriots avenging themselves on traitors who’d cost them a swift victory after the Emperor’s death.

TIE Bomber destroying ice sheets.

• The first TIE bombers approached the northern ice cap. Soran adjusted the bridge comm and listened to Commander Broosh order bombs released above the target zone. Images transmitted from the TIEs showed ice shattering, flashing into steam in an instant. Larger ice sheets around the rim of the bomb crater collapsed into the hole, which in turn released a billowing fog—gases trapped underground for millennia, now freed.

5 torpedoes cripple a Raider-class Corvette, which is stated to be capable of atomizing starfighters. It's worth noting that even 1 causes its shields to flicker.

• He squeezed his trigger and loosed a torpedo, feeling the whole ship recoil with the launch. The weapon streaked ahead, joined by three more launched by nearby Y-wings, and Nath wrested his bomber to one side before he could be atomized by the Raider’s weaponry. He kept watching as he veered, however, and grinned in satisfaction as two torpedoes (he wasn’t sure whose) smashed into the enemy vessel. The first sent light and fire splashing across the Raider’s shield bubble; the second passed through the flickering shield and tore into armor as it burst, kicking the entire Raider five degrees askew. Flames belched from the resulting crater and, a second later, electrical arcs caressed the ship bow-to-stern. Nath couldn’t tell if it was a fatal blow, but it was close enough for him—he couldn’t imagine the Raider would be supporting Operation Cinder for a while.

I think an X-wing would be destroyed from 100 metres away by its own torpedo. It might be another kind of Starfighter.

• A haze of particles obscured her view; when it passed she was a hundred meters from the Yadeez. The freighter’s thrusters would’ve burned away her shields if she’d had anything left; she felt their heat through her canopy. The song went on as she scrambled to aim her shot, but she saw now she was too close to escape the blast from her torpedo. If she fired, there was a good chance she’d be obliterated along with one of the freighter’s thrusters.

A stray turbolaser blast or bomb on Coruscant could kill millions. Coruscant, for reference, is a city-planet with a trillion beings divided into the surface and more sparsely populated undercities that reach 5 habitable levels. The largest skyscrapers can also be 6 km.

• No, she corrected herself—not the lower levels. She was seeing the surface of the city, but below were thousands of occupied layers. The structures went on endlessly, largely dark except for a frosting of illumination, and here and there a black chasm gouged the city and hinted at chthonic depths. It was wondrous. She’d seen holos of it before, but she’d never understood Coruscant’s beauty or its weight. She realized instinctively why the New Republic had left it to the Empire all these months; a single stray bomb or turbolaser blast might kill millions.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Not sure why hyperspeed projectiles would be considered expensive; one-shotting a much bigger ship (and potentially dozens of ships behind it) is a win, and would deter the opposing force from using large ships. It is also immensely more more cost-efficient and more ethical than planet busters (which also wastes the resources that can be harvested from the planet, and life-wiping can be done with a fleet specializing in siege+bombardement).
The issue isn't in the concept itself (a ship can crash-land on a planet with a hyperdrive on); the problem is in how overpowered it was portrayed to be in TLJ. It is basicly an unblockable long-range attack, any commander worth their salt would get R&D to weaponize it. Retconning it into something extremely rare and requiring luck was a good move.

Unfortunately, the Mandalorian novel got cancelled, and the visual guide got officially cancelled too with a coordinated message.



It seems to me that LucasFilms decided on big lore/plot changes in order to make the Mandalorian's storyline less self-contained. The cancellation of completed books is a loss in revenue, so they are probably investing in something bigger. The world of the Mandalorian was already expanding before the cancellation, so now it will expand harder?

Some rumors/leaks about the Ahsoka show: Corey Van ****, who does a Star Wars podcast, reported that Mena Massoud has been cast as Ezra in the Ahsoka show; Mena recently posted an Ezra quote in his instagram. He also reported that there is an Ezra and Thrawn show planned on Disney+.

So the Star Wars website had an introduction video that included the weird alien navigator from the second High Republic novel "Into the Dark", who looks like a literal motionless rock (he moves around and does competent navigation work off-screen, but appears as a motionless and silent rock to the audience and POV character apparently because he is shy. Probably no telepathy involved either as his name somehow can't be properly pronounced unless you don't have a mouth). And he was poorly recieved and got heavily memed.
He is obviously a gag character and looks better with context, but do you think that the concept is still bad and too cringey?

 

[ByAsura]

Not sure why hyperspeed projectiles would be considered expensive; one-shotting a much bigger ship (and potentially dozens of ships behind it) is a win, and would deter the opposing force from using large ships. It is also immensely more more cost-efficient and more ethical than planet busters (which also wastes the resources that can be harvested from the planet, and life-wiping can be done with a fleet specializing in siege+bombardement).
The issue isn't in the concept itself (a ship can crash-land on a planet with a hyperdrive on); the problem is in how overpowered it was portrayed to be in TLJ. It is basicly an unblockable long-range attack, any commander worth their salt would get R&D to weaponize it. Retconning it into something extremely rare and requiring luck was a good move.

The Raddus, which is larger and more powerful than almost anything the Rebellion or Empire fielded, only destroyed those ships by creating debris by ramming something over 3 times larger than the Executor, and it's because all of them were directly behind the Supremacy. This would not be an effective tactic during something like the start of the Battle of Endor (where all the ships were spaced apart) or the middle (where ships on both sides were metres apart). Wasting a capital ship is very expensive (less than 7,000 Star Destroyers costs as much as a Death Star), especially to something like the Rebel Alliance. The Empire could afford it, but it's unlikely their soldiers would sacrifice the ship and everyone on board. It's also way more useless considering how hyperspace actually works.

Most fleets take a lot of time to bombard a planet. It's a very slow, messy process that most capital ships aren't very good at, and it can take a lot of time just to destroy a large island. Even the Siege Dreadnought (said to have more firepower than a dozen Resurgent-classes in canon and explicitly designed for assaulting planets on a large scale) from TLJ took a long time to recharge just to destroy something the size of India with one volley.

The Death Star was explicitly not designed to be ethical. After it was built, Palpatine dissolved the Senate because having the Death Star alone was enough of a deterrent to allow the Empire to personally oversee their space. Hyperspace ramming is still way more useless, if not entirely ineffective, by comparison.

It was never not portrayed as overpowered (even shaking an entire moon and causing vibrations from thousands of kilometres away in its first canon appearance), and always envisioned as something that was extremely difficult and, if achieved, highly devastating. The line added in TRoS was probably put in to appease fans, but Ryan has always made it clear that this move is super difficult.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

So the Star Wars website had an introduction video that included the weird alien navigator from the second High Republic novel "Into the Dark", who looks like a literal motionless rock (he moves around and does competent navigation work off-screen, but appears as a motionless and silent rock to the audience and POV character apparently because he is shy. Probably no telepathy involved either as his name somehow can't be properly pronounced unless you don't have a mouth). And he was poorly recieved and got heavily memed.
He is obviously a gag character and looks better with context, but do you think that the concept is still bad and too cringey?

It's great, also having a noncarbon humanoid Alien is always welcome and does a good job diversifying the galaxy.

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

The Raddus, which is larger and more powerful than almost anything the Rebellion or Empire fielded, only destroyed those ships by creating debris by ramming something over 3 times larger than the Executor, and it's because all of them were directly behind the Supremacy. This would not be an effective tactic during something like the start of the Battle of Endor (where all the ships were spaced apart) or the middle (where ships on both sides were metres apart). Wasting a capital ship is very expensive (less than 7,000 Star Destroyers costs as much as a Death Star), especially to something like the Rebel Alliance. The Empire could afford it, but it's unlikely their soldiers would sacrifice the ship and everyone on board. It's also way more useless considering how hyperspace actually works.

Most fleets take a lot of time to bombard a planet. It's a very slow, messy process that most capital ships aren't very good at, and it can take a lot of time just to destroy a large island. Even the Siege Dreadnought (said to have more firepower than a dozen Resurgent-classes in canon and explicitly designed for assaulting planets on a large scale) from TLJ took a long time to recharge just to destroy something the size of India with one volley.

The Death Star was explicitly not designed to be ethical. After it was built, Palpatine dissolved the Senate because having the Death Star alone was enough of a deterrent to allow the Empire to personally oversee their space. Hyperspace ramming is still way more useless, if not entirely ineffective, by comparison.

It was never not portrayed as overpowered (even shaking an entire moon and causing vibrations from thousands of kilometres away in its first canon appearance), and always envisioned as something that was extremely difficult and, if achieved, highly devastating. The line added in TRoS was probably put in to appease fans, but Ryan has always made it clear that this move is super difficult.

Destroying ships in the rear is a bonus. The prize is destroying a much larger ship at the cost of a much smaller ship. I am not saying "let's ram a Star Destroyer with a Mon Calamari capital ship", I am saying "let's ram a Star Destroyer with a much smaller Hyperspace missle or a much smaller unmanned ship". Which is more than affordable. No man power need to be sacrificed; a droid at most. Poe's 'Lightspeed Skipping' scene in The Rise of Skywalker's shatters the notion that there are rules for how Hyperspace works.

A day or two is a relatively short time, and 30 minutes is enough to make a point. A civilian population without a fleet would be deathly afraid from having their population centers rendered uninhabitable by normal Star Destroyers, in a similar manner to their fear from having the entire planet blow up by a super laser; majority of citizens sympathized with the rebellion judging by the celebrations, and the Death Star won't suddenly make them loyal (and in fact inspired more to join the rebellion).

It was first portrayed as a reliable weapon, from the script of TLJ:
Poe knew what she was doing when he said that she isn't running away (which is more likely than one-in-a-million). First Order commanders panicked and Hux screamed to fire on the cruiser (when they should laugh it off if it was a one-in-a-million thing. Especially when they are portrayed as incompetent).

 

[ByAsura]

Firstly, that's not something TLJ established, effective hyperspace ramming was made in the Clone Wars. Second, it's still an extremely difficult tactic that virtually nobody uses, even after it was established multiple times in canon. Fourth, hyperlanes and routes make the concept of a hyperspace ramming missile pretty ineffective, unless they were already in targeting range like the Raddus was. Lastly, it'd be a terrible story if both sides were just fitting droids into pods and throwing them at each other, hence why they made the whole thing non-viable.

Saying every rule has been completely thrown out is just making stuff up. But then again, the TRoS writers did the same when they came up with lightspeed skipping.

Planets have orbital defences that can stand up to any Star Destroyer, and they can intercepted and destroyed in the timeframe of a bombardment. It's happened in many times canon, such as Thrawn and Aftermath: Life Debt. That's completely irrelevant; the Empire's goal was to scare systems. It's not a question of loyalty, and the Empire obviously doesn't even care if it was. The Empire do not care about being ethical after making the Death Stars, and that's the whole point, which is only confirmed by the fact that everyone hated them.

It proves Hux and Poe know the move exists, not that it's common. Given that it's occurred many times before this moment, including a mention that planetary bodies have been shaken to their core by the Holdo Manoeuvre in Tarkin, we can firmly say that it's an at least somewhat known tactic. Both Ryan and the TLJ novel, which was written and released conterminously with the film, both suggest it's not a common tactic.

After this, I just have to ask who established, or even implied, that hyperspace ramming was not a thing?

 

[Cropfist]

Not sure why hyperspeed projectiles would be considered expensive; one-shotting a much bigger ship (and potentially dozens of ships behind it) is a win, and would deter the opposing force from using large ships. It is also immensely more more cost-efficient and more ethical than planet busters (which also wastes the resources that can be harvested from the planet, and life-wiping can be done with a fleet specializing in siege+bombardement).
The issue isn't in the concept itself (a ship can crash-land on a planet with a hyperdrive on); the problem is in how overpowered it was portrayed to be in TLJ. It is basicly an unblockable long-range attack, any commander worth their salt would get R&D to weaponize it. Retconning it into something extremely rare and requiring luck was a good move.

Unfortunately, the Mandalorian novel got cancelled, and the visual guide got officially cancelled too with a coordinated message.



It seems to me that LucasFilms decided on big lore/plot changes in order to make the Mandalorian's storyline less self-contained. The cancellation of completed books is a loss in revenue, so they are probably investing in something bigger. The world of the Mandalorian was already expanding before the cancellation, so now it will expand harder?

Some rumors/leaks about the Ahsoka show: Corey Van ****, who does a Star Wars podcast, reported that Mena Massoud has been cast as Ezra in the Ahsoka show; Mena recently posted an Ezra quote in his instagram. He also reported that there is an Ezra and Thrawn show planned on Disney+.

So the Star Wars website had an introduction video that included the weird alien navigator from the second High Republic novel "Into the Dark", who looks like a literal motionless rock (he moves around and does competent navigation work off-screen, but appears as a motionless and silent rock to the audience and POV character apparently because he is shy. Probably no telepathy involved either as his name somehow can't be properly pronounced unless you don't have a mouth). And he was poorly recieved and got heavily memed.
He is obviously a gag character and looks better with context, but do you think that the concept is still bad and too cringey?

The rock is dumb.

 

[ByAsura]

The starship that Geode (that's his name) navigates is also called Vessel.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

The starship that Geode (that's his name) navigates is also called Vessel.

C c xxx xCn

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

It's great, also having a noncarbon humanoid Alien is always welcome and does a good job diversifying the galaxy.

He has a lot of potential and creative interesting concepts can be introduced; for example maybe he can sense the location of asteroids which helps him navigate.

But I think they leaned too much on the comical side, when telling us a bit about his interesting 'biology' would make him a lot more appealing. Like Geode is a legit party animal:

“Where's Geode?” “Hittin’ the clubs. The gods only know what time he’ll be back. Someday that guy’s gonna have to slow down.”

But he insists on appearing as nothing but a motionless slab of rock to the POV character.

Firstly, that's not something TLJ established, effective hyperspace ramming was made in the Clone Wars. Second, it's still an extremely difficult tactic that virtually nobody uses, even after it was established multiple times in canon. Fourth, hyperlanes and routes make the concept of a hyperspace ramming missile pretty ineffective, unless they were already in targeting range like the Raddus was. Lastly, it'd be a terrible story if both sides were just fitting droids into pods and throwing them at each other, hence why they made the whole thing non-viable.

Saying every rule has been completely thrown out is just making stuff up. But then again, the TRoS writers did the same when they came up with lightspeed skipping.

Planets have orbital defences that can stand up to any Star Destroyer, and they can intercepted and destroyed in the timeframe of a bombardment. It's happened in many times canon, such as Thrawn and Aftermath: Life Debt. That's completely irrelevant; the Empire's goal was to scare systems. It's not a question of loyalty, and the Empire obviously doesn't even care if it was. The Empire do not care about being ethical after making the Death Stars, and that's the whole point, which is only confirmed by the fact that everyone hated them.

It proves Hux and Poe know the move exists, not that it's common. Given that it's occurred many times before this moment, including a mention that planetary bodies have been shaken to their core by the Holdo Manoeuvre in Tarkin, we can firmly say that it's an at least somewhat known tactic. Both Ryan and the TLJ novel, which was written and released conterminously with the film, both suggest it's not a common tactic.

After this, I just have to ask who established, or even implied, that hyperspace ramming was not a thing?

The Clone Wars had a crash landing with Hyperspace involved, which no one has a problem with and is merely a depiction of something Han Solo warned against all the way back in the OT. We are talking about weaponized Hyperspace ramming that can bypass shields and one-shot much larger ships, cutting clean through them.
Hyperspace missiles (even within targeting range) aimed straight at the bridge of a Star Destroyer is a great idea. It was previously assumed to non-viable for weaponization since it is not used (maybe ramming can't bypass shields, maybe the ships have devices the blocks Hyperspace), but the scene in TLJ begs the question: Why is it not used more often (especially when the destructive effectiveness is known), and if it is not viable what is the reason it is not viable?
Obviously wide use would produce boring space battles, despite making sense in-universe. Hence throwing in an addendum that it is a one-in-a-million was a good move.

Orbital defenses are normally via space stations orbiting the planet, and it is unlikely that the Empire would allow planets who hate them to have gigantic cannons designed to snipe Star Destroyers. Aftermath had three Star Destroyers orbitally bombard a planet to destroy all life on it, and if the New Republic fleet didn't arrive it would've worked. The Death Star is not for use against equal or superior military force; it was for scaring planets the Empire already control and subjugate, and orbital bombardment would've done the job at a much cheaper cost. Planetry shields are not portrayed as common in canon, they might also hinder trade and the Empire is unlikely to allow them outside their own military operations.
Though I would concede on the Death Star not being efficient if for some reason the Rebel Alliance was not beatable through Imperial firepower and numbers.

 

[ByAsura]

What's the actual difference? They crashed so hard that it shook an entire moon and created a gigantic fireball, so it's still ramming and weaponizes hyperspace. Also, Han never said anything about crashing, he warned against coming too close to a supernova or accidentally flying through a star, and the creators of the Clone Wars felt that this was enough justification to include hitting objects in Hyperspace. This feels like an unnecessary attempt to split hairs, especially since the story group outright based the Holdo Manoeuvre on the Clone Wars scene.

Ramming doesn't bypass shielding, it actually has to pierce right through. Only planetary shields have that weakness due to massive power constraints. Also, power systems aboard the Supremacy were still functional after being cut in two by something larger, more powerful and better shielded/armoured than anything the Rebellion ever used. The Raddus was even decommissioned because it was powerful.

It was used and you're mixing up events in Star Wars; Hyperspace ramming is rarely used because it's not viable. TLJ was never an attempt to make it viable. In fact, extra media written at the same time expresses this. Including the fact that the ship wasn't entirely in Hyperspace and was converted into a column of plasma on impact, which them obliterated the fleet.

• Under ordinary operations, the presence of a sizable object along the route between the Raddus’s realspace position and its entry point into hyperspace would have caused the heavy cruiser’s fail-safes to cut in and shut down the hyperdrive. But with the fail-safes offline and the overrides activated, the proximity alerts were ignored. When the heavy cruiser plowed into the Supremacy’s broad flying wing, the force of the impact was at least three orders of magnitude greater than anything the Raddus’s inertial dampeners were rated to handle. The protective field they generated failed immediately, but the heavy cruiser’s augmented experimental shields remained intact for a moment longer before the unimaginable force of the impact converted the Raddus into a column of plasma that consumed itself. However, the Raddus had also accelerated to nearly the speed of light at the point of that catastrophic impact—and the column of plasma it became was hotter than a sun and intensely magnetized. This plasma was then hurled into hyperspace along a tunnel opened by the null quantumfield generator—a tunnel that collapsed as quickly as it had been opened. Both the column of plasma and the hyperspace tunnel were gone in far less than an eyeblink, but that was long enough to rip through the Supremacy’s hull from bow to stern, tear a ragged hole in a string of Star Destroyers flying in formation with it, and finally wink out of existence in empty space thousands of kilometers beyond the First Order task force.

Not as often as you're making it out to be, orbital space stations don't even typically protect planets. Deflector shields capable of withstanding hits from Star Destroyers aren't uncommon, and neither are ground-based missile/ion cannons. One word for you: Hoth. That's the point, though, it didn't work because the process took so much time. The Death Star is explicitly designed to take down fleets.

• DODONNA: The battle station is heavily shielded and carries a firepower greater than half the star fleet. It's defenses are designed around a direct large-scale assault. A small one-man fighter should be able to penetrate the outer defense.

On an undefended, sparsely populated planet, yes, but no on anything else. Plus, you're still missing the point; the Death Star is a deterrent and device on fear. Planetary shields aren't that common, yes, but you can still use a small-scale shield to defend against bombardment.

Seriously, I've already given proof of the directors and everyone saying it's not a viable tactic in my discussion with CSO_Class_Supercarrier. Give actual proof that it is effective, not speculation and half-facts. Once you start to, I'll respond to those parts again.

"Though I would concede on the Death Star not being efficient if for some reason the Rebel Alliance was not beatable through Imperial firepower and numbers."

It largely isn't, under normal circumstances. The Rebels fielded superior Starfighters (excluding the TIE/D and TIE/DE) and hit-and-run hyperspace tactics (all TIE Fighters either have no hyperdrive or a far slower Class 4, and Hyperspace wasn't usually trackable back then, which is mentioned as far back as The Empire Strikes Back), while keeping the bulk of their fleet outside the Galaxy without a base of operation. Palpatine's whole plan was to draw them in one place and blast the fleet to pieces.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

@Shadowbokunohero
@ByAsura
@DarkDragonMedeus

Look who the Aphra comics are bringing back into Canon:

Doctor Aphra (2020) 11

Doctor Aphra 11 is the eleventh issue of the canon comic series Star Wars: Doctor Aphra. The comic was written by Alyssa Wong, illustrated by Minkyu Jung, and published by Marvel Comics on June 30, 2021. MYSTERIES ABOUND ABOARD A DURGE-ANGED SHIP! DOCTOR APHRA and SANA STARROS discover an eerie...

starwars.fandom.com

Durge/Canon

Durge was a fearsome bounty hunter who encountered Doctor Chelli Lona Aphra and Sana Starros aboard an abandoned starship during the reign of the Galactic Empire. Aphra and Starros faced Durge whilst undertaking a mission for Domina Tagge. At the time, Durge wore silver armor with blue and red...

starwars.fandom.com

So the Star Wars website had an introduction video that included the weird alien navigator from the second High Republic novel "Into the Dark", who looks like a literal motionless rock (he moves around and does competent navigation work off-screen, but appears as a motionless and silent rock to the audience and POV character apparently because he is shy. Probably no telepathy involved either as his name somehow can't be properly pronounced unless you don't have a mouth). And he was poorly recieved and got heavily memed.
He is obviously a gag character and looks better with context, but do you think that the concept is still bad and too cringey?

Legends also had some characters like him. They actually could be Force sensitive, put themselves in mech suits, and fought as Jedi. I forgot what they're called.

It was ******* weird in Legends even with context.

The Raddus, which is larger and more powerful than almost anything the Rebellion or Empire fielded, only destroyed those ships by creating debris by ramming something over 3 times larger than the Executor, and it's because all of them were directly behind the Supremacy. This would not be an effective tactic during something like the start of the Battle of Endor (where all the ships were spaced apart) or the middle (where ships on both sides were metres apart). Wasting a capital ship is very expensive (less than 7,000 Star Destroyers costs as much as a Death Star), especially to something like the Rebel Alliance. The Empire could afford it, but it's unlikely their soldiers would sacrifice the ship and everyone on board. It's also way more useless considering how hyperspace actually works.

Most fleets take a lot of time to bombard a planet. It's a very slow, messy process that most capital ships aren't very good at, and it can take a lot of time just to destroy a large island. Even the Siege Dreadnought (said to have more firepower than a dozen Resurgent-classes in canon and explicitly designed for assaulting planets on a large scale) from TLJ took a long time to recharge just to destroy something the size of India with one volley.

The Death Star was explicitly not designed to be ethical. After it was built, Palpatine dissolved the Senate because having the Death Star alone was enough of a deterrent to allow the Empire to personally oversee their space. Hyperspace ramming is still way more useless, if not entirely ineffective, by comparison.

It was never not portrayed as overpowered (even shaking an entire moon and causing vibrations from thousands of kilometres away in its first canon appearance), and always envisioned as something that was extremely difficult and, if achieved, highly devastating. The line added in TRoS was probably put in to appease fans, but Ryan has always made it clear that this move is super difficult.

Wasn't it also clarified in the original script and novelization that hyperspace ramming is a difficult thing that works only if a lot of factors go right?

It's great, also having a noncarbon humanoid Alien is always welcome and does a good job diversifying the galaxy.

Silicon based lifeform, right?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Ah nice!

 

[ByAsura]

@Soldier Blue Yes. I actually showed some of the quotes in my 3rd response.

I wonder if Durge will hate Clones. They say Jango isn't a Mandalorian in TCW and some other sources, but he was trained there.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

@Soldier Blue Yes. I actually showed some of the quotes in my 3rd response.

I wonder if Durge will hate Clones. They say Jango isn't a Mandalorian in TCW and some other sources, but he was trained there.

It really depends on how is backstory goes in Canon. It could be completely different, for all we know.

Satine's Mandalorian regime disavowed the Fetts, likely for political reasons. The Mandalorian Season 2 proved that Jango was a Mandalorian foundling, and Boba is his rightful heir.

 

[Cropfist]

Legends also had some characters like him. They actually could be Force sensitive, put themselves in mech suits, and fought as Jedi. I forgot what they're called.

Shards

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

It is still a ******* rock that has the force. Dispute the Subjagator class never entering hyperspace in the first place or the classic sound and visual design associated with hyperspace was never seen nor heard. The Gr 75 hyperspace ramming into the devastator is a much better example it was extremely clear it entered hyperspace just before the devastator dropped out of hyperspace. Neither the Mandator 4 or the Starfortress bombers were needed nor 75 percent of the fleet was just the Raddus. The First Order does not need a siege platform where a single star destroyer has something like 3,000 weapons emplacements built on it and Kyber crystal-powered weapon systems. Or the fact the first order fleet had to be behind the Supremacy witch survived the hyperspace ram proving it's ineffective at destroying or even clipping its intended targets toa certain point. or the 4 tie fighter after the Raddus a dedicated carrier makes little sense. Nor was Starkiller base needed we did not need a mega death star let alone hundreds of thousands of mini ones because star wars are out of ideas. Or the Rise of Skywalker needs to resurrect the emperor who survived literal death form planet or even a star killer mega weapon in the first place and I am not defending Dark Empire in that regard. Maybe do something not related to superweapons for a entire movie trilogy.

 

[ByAsura]

Dispute the Subjagator class never entering hyperspace in the first place or the classic sound and visual design associated with hyperspace was never seen nor heard.

Already did that by showing you a clip of the writers saying it did. You even agreed, eventually. Also, C3PO says the Hyperdrive was activating.

It's possible you don't hear the noise because it was on for a second or two. Anakin sabotaged the Hyperdrive and navicomputer to point at the moon and then crash.

The Gr 75 hyperspace ramming into the devastator is a much better example it was extremely clear it entered hyperspace just before the devastator dropped out of hyperspace.

Were we watching the same clip? They were about to jump (something that takes a bit of time for even the Millennium Falcon's hyperadvanced droid navicomputer), but the massive Star Destroyer in their path forced them to veer off.

Neither the Mandator 4 or the Starfortress bombers were needed nor 75 percent of the fleet was just the Raddus. The First Order does not need a siege platform where a single star destroyer has something like 3,000 weapons emplacements built on it and Kyber crystal-powered weapon systems.

Your first point is about the Raddus is completely incoherent.

The Mandator IV is designed to punch through any planetary defence and obliterate capital ships, such as the Raddus, with one volley from orbit. It's effectively a micro Death Star that's strongly implied to be powered by Kyber Crystals. Resurgent-class Star Destroyers (only a few of which have Kyber Crystals) are good at orbital bombardment, but one volley from a Mandator IV accomplishes what a fleet of them can't and conventional turbolasers have range problems.

I will, however, say that the First Order used the Mandator IV in the dumbest way possible while attacking the Resistance. They didn't effectively utilise 3-D space by having the Resurgent-class Star Destroyers positioned around it to stay out of the cannon's path while providing cover fire (though cover fire doesn't work very well when they're next to a ship).

Or the fact the first order fleet had to be behind the Supremacy witch survived the hyperspace ram proving it's ineffective at destroying or even clipping its intended targets toa certain point.

The Supremacy is 60 kilometres long. Each of these ships are tens of kilometres apart from each other on a 3-D plane. And it's also the super heavily armed flagship, why would it not be the lead Capital Ship? That's what the Executor did before engaging the Rebel fleet at Endor.

First of all, doesn't Hyperspace ramming being ineffective prove my point, if anything at all? Secondly, it was a perfect hit, it's just that the Supremacy is really, really tough. The fact that these debris even obliterated whole Resurgent-class Star Destroyers should tell you this.

or the 4 tie fighter after the Raddus a dedicated carrier makes little sense.

It makes perfect sense. The TIEs were the fastest and most powerful that the First Order had, and the Resistance was moving too fast for any of the First Order Capital Ships to keep up. Need I remind you that a stray A-wing took down the Executor after evading a lot of its point-defence cannons, and X-wings evaded fire from the Death Star. Even in this movie, Black One takes down all of the Dreadnought's point-defence cannons.

A better problem would be to ask why they didn't send more TIE Fighters to inflict some minor damage and draw away fire.

Nor was Starkiller base needed we did not need a mega death star let alone hundreds of thousands of mini ones because star wars are out of ideas. Or the Rise of Skywalker needs to resurrect the emperor who survived literal death form planet or even a star killer mega weapon in the first place and I am not defending Dark Empire in that regard. Maybe do something not related to superweapons for a entire movie trilogy.

I don't care, personally. Seems like a you problem, tbh. Although I do agree that bringing back Palpatine was dumb (especially because they try to justify it by using a line about someone who couldn't bring himself back to life), and I couldn't stand TROS overall.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

It looked more like hyperspace ramming because it looked like hyperspace. Second fine point.Because a ship like the supremacy is slow pounder and a massive target despite being really tough. second, it was not a perfect hit it was a near-perfect hit Third the mandatory 4 should not be called that because it does not look like a mandator line. I know Poe killed the point defense weapons but he could not kill 3,000 capital ship-grade weapon emplacements. Third, they seemed to be moving at a moderate pace at best considering TIEs could more than keep up with them. I meant to be asking why could they not seem more of them. Yes miniature versions of them on the resurgent have superlaser siege cannon-based technology. That is land-based. They never used the superlaser siege cannon in the TROS movie. long-range turbolaser based technology exists and it seems like hundreds or even thousands of kilometers in overall. Planetary turbolaser based technology also exist retrofit it onto a ship the size of a subjugator clas or bigger and shrink it down for a star destroyer-sized warship and combine long-range turbolaser and ion cannon and planetary grade turbolaser and ion cannon based technologies. It would be a ship kill for a tiny fraction of the cost resources and manpower of those orbital bombardment cannons a mini death star cannon.

 

[ByAsura]

It looked more like hyperspace ramming because it looked like hyperspace.

There was no Hyperspace in the Rogue One scene.

Because a ship like the supremacy is slow pounder and a massive target despite being really tough.

The Supremacy is not slow, the First Order fleet were going at full speed and it still took the lead. So, it's just as fast as a Resurgent-class Star Destroyer. Also, you answered your own question; it's tough. The fact that a Capital Ship ramming it at light-speed didn't obliterate the whole thing proves that it's orders of magnitude stronger than something like a Star Destroyer.

second, it was not a perfect hit it was a near-perfect hit

If you mean down the middle, then yes, but she didn't clip it like you were trying to suggest.

Third the mandatory 4 should not be called that because it does not look like a mandator line.

We've never actually seen any other Mandators in canon or Legends, only heard of them.

I know Poe killed the point defense weapons but he could not kill 3,000 capital ship-grade weapon emplacements.

That has nothing to do with that point. You were arguing that they don't need a Mandator because Resurgent-class Star Destroyers have 3,000 turbolasers. My point here was a completely different subject about Starfighters evading the Raddus' cannons.

Third, they seemed to be moving at a moderate pace at best considering TIEs could more than keep up with them.

That's because they'd just been tracked from Hyperspace. They powered up to full speed so that the TIEs (which could more that keep up with capital ships, fyi) couldn't be protected by the First Order fleet.

• ACKBAR: All craft, full engines! Concentrate rear shields.
• ARMITAGE HUX: Ren, the Resistance have pulled out of reach. We can't cover you at this distance. Return to the fleet. What is the point of all this if we can't blow up three tiny cruisers?
• PEAVEY: They are faster and lighter, sir. They can't lose us but they can keep at a range where our cannons are not effective against their shields.

I meant to be asking why could they not seem more of them.

I can somewhat agree with this, although I'd argue that they'd gain little by sending slower, standard TIEs when they knew the fleet would run out of fuel eventually.

Yes miniature versions of them on the resurgent have superlaser siege cannon-based technology. That is land-based. They never used the superlaser siege cannon in the TROS movie. long-range turbolaser based technology exists and it seems like hundreds or even thousands of kilometers in overall. Planetary turbolaser based technology also exist retrofit it onto a ship the size of a subjugator clas or bigger and shrink it down for a star destroyer-sized warship and combine long-range turbolaser and ion cannon and planetary grade turbolaser and ion cannon based technologies. It would be a ship kill for a tiny fraction of the cost resources and manpower of those orbital bombardment cannons a mini death star cannon.

Where are you getting that A) it's even possible possible to do that (keep in mind that planetary shields and ion cannons have power constraints that far, far dwarf capital ships) and B) it'd be a fraction of the cost of a Mandator IV? Also, what purpose would the Siege Cannon have served in TROS?

It genuinely seems like you're just making up points to be mad at these movies, especially since they've never even done anything like this in Star Wars.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Because the mandator 4 had the orbital autocannon which seems based on superlaser and planetary grade weapons emplacements would not be cheeping but it would be a little more effective considering a superlaser siege cannon I doubt the largest the first order had a breakthrough a door like an RKKV though gel. Hyperspace tracking was said to be extremely effective so I bought to spice things up with the technology would be a good thing. That makes sense but onlythe fighters and the silencer at least 3 ties were killed but the fleets weapons emplacements in begin with. Fractal sponges Bellator is based on the mandatory line and overall larger than the 4. Yeah, the mega might be tough be they scraped it the second it had its wings literally clipped so it might not have been a good idea to repair the dam thing. Putting those planetary grade turbolaser and superlaser siege cannon hybrids on the Xyston class would have been better than hundreds of thousands of mini death stars. It would not have been unexpected for the orbital autocannons the w 165 and the first order superlaser siege cannon to hybridized through technologies would have made more sense than to put a superlaser on them to blow up planets. For orbital bombardment to get past a planetary shielding then something like a mandatory or another dreadnought could bombard the planet in orbit rather than have superlaser required starships for every single one of your capital grade warships. Then you could use those planets as a base or make more ships vehicles weapons and more from them rather than wasting planets. a 2.4-kilometer-long starship in star wars can blow up planets 50 years earlier it took a 100-mile wide battle station to do that in any capacity. And by the time of Starkiller base, it was still a good idea to make the dam thing but with hyperspace-based technologies involved.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

The supremacy might be slow because something like 36 resurgent class battlecruisers had to ay behind to protect and there were all at the rear rather than a 50 50 type thing. Because star wars fans are overall is sick of superweapons being used as a plot device in this franchise. we have 7 movies with some sort of death star Starkiller base or xyston clas in them AOC RTS ANH RTJ TFA TLJ TROS all had some sort of superweapon in the movie and I almost forgot R1. It's getting boring to see Star Wars rehash the same plot points for its movies for the most part. At least the superlaser siege cannon orbital autocannon and planetary turbolaser cannon would have at the very least, not been death star.0 and being the last uninspired piece of garbage it was in the end. It either should have ignored TLJ and the controversy at the end or made something else. Because it was a shit movie and not a good product by any means considering the Joker and R1 both had bigger box offices interim of thier proportional scale oft he protect compared to TROS. While the fan seems to like the movie better it was still a dumb movie that did not need to exist and you can skip the first 2 movies and be fine because it legit seems nothing happened to warrant these movies making in-universe. It seems like the TROS needs to be recounted a little bit too I give it a 1/10.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

My point was instead of going the easy road to something different and make a change in star wars cannon. We really do need the next movies or tv shows going the nano death star route. It's boring and uninspired to be with and my idea would at least have gotten the film Slimer outcome and not had to blow up a planet to please everybody. I was trying to say do something different for once and put those ideas the superlaser siege cannon a planetary turbolaser and orbital autocannon and hybridized those technologies and seem to result of its totally something the first order the final order the sith enteral and the galactic empire would do. Fits within the universe at large and would make an interesting movie I think. And a lot better than ROJ endgame fan person part two. Or something like that. Something new original witch science-fictional in fantasy is lacking at the very best interim of major productions. It would have been a new light ina very dark tunnel for the genres as a whole. Something that would have at the very least makes sense. And not been Transformers 6 The Aftermath of Unicron. Something a little more down-to-earth and less octane-like.

 

[ByAsura]

Because the mandator 4 had the orbital autocannon which seems based on superlaser and planetary grade weapons emplacements would not be cheeping but it would be a little more effective considering a superlaser siege cannon I doubt the largest the first order had a breakthrough a door like an RKKV though gel.

It would not have been unexpected for the orbital autocannons the w 165 and the first order superlaser siege cannon to hybridized through technologies would have made more sense than to put a superlaser on them to blow up planets. For orbital bombardment to get past a planetary shielding then something like a mandatory or another dreadnought could bombard the planet in orbit rather than have superlaser required starships for every single one of your capital grade warships. Then you could use those planets as a base or make more ships vehicles weapons and more from them rather than wasting planets. a 2.4-kilometer-long starship in star wars can blow up planets 50 years earlier it took a 100-mile wide battle station to do that in any capacity. And by the time of Starkiller base, it was still a good idea to make the dam thing but with hyperspace-based technologies involved.

Putting those planetary grade turbolaser and superlaser siege cannon hybrids on the Xyston class would have been better than hundreds of thousands of mini death stars.

It is based on a superlaser, yes, but the Mandator was actually revealed to be a test bed for the Xyston-class' weapon.

That would, by definition, be unexpected because it's literally never happened before.

Why, though? The whole point of the Xyston was to "waste" planets. There's no possible defence against it, and now they have an extremely fearsome fleet that would intimidate the entire galaxy. You're actually advocating for something that's less effective, if it's even possible at all. Also, how would hundreds of Siege Cannons be better? You're just assuming they're capable of doing large scale damage instead of something like this. They also take a massive amount of time to charge and have to follow along a targeting beam.

Keep in mind that the Siege Cannon is 200 metres long, so it's doubtful the Xyston is even large enough to support many of them.

Hyperspace tracking was said to be extremely effective so I bought to spice things up with the technology would be a good thing.

That makes sense but onlythe fighters and the silencer at least 3 ties were killed but the fleets weapons emplacements in begin with.

Never even brought this up.

I'm not sure what this even refers to.

Fractal sponges Bellator is based on the mandatory line and overall larger than the 4.

I didn't know that. However, the Bellator being based on the Mandator II and III is entirely Legends.

Yeah, the mega might be tough be they scraped it the second it had its wings literally clipped so it might not have been a good idea to repair the dam thing.

Its wing was not clipped, the entire ship was sliced in two. They didn't repair the ship because it was a lost cause.

• The First Order’s flagship—which was also its mobile capital, its greatest shipyard, its best research-and development facility, and so much more besides—was doomed. Yet the Resistance had been reduced to a pathetic handful of ships trapped on a backwater world. And the New Republic was no closer to resurrection. The imminent end of the Supremacy would change surprisingly little about the balance of power in the galaxy.
• The throne room lurched sickeningly around them. Hux knew what that meant—the complex system of inertial dampeners and acceleration compensators that protected the core decks of the Supremacy was failing. They had to hurry. But Kylo was confused. He braced himself, staring out in disbelief at the mangled half of the flagship and the wrecked Star Destroyers beyond it.

The supremacy might be slow because something like 36 resurgent class battlecruisers had to ay behind to protect and there were all at the rear rather than a 50 50 type thing.

I said the Supremacy was fast—just as swift as a Resugent-class, in fact. Both fleets were at full speed.

Because star wars fans are overall is sick of superweapons being used as a plot device in this franchise. we have 7 movies with some sort of death star Starkiller base or xyston clas in them AOC RTS ANH RTJ TFA TLJ TROS all had some sort of superweapon in the movie and I almost forgot R1. It's getting boring to see Star Wars rehash the same plot points for its movies for the most part.

Super weapons were not a plot device in Attack of the Clone or Revenge of the Sith. The Death Star did appear in them, but only as a hologram or a cameo. There were also no super weapons in TLJ that acted as a plot device, and that's if you even count something like the Siege Cannon, Mandator or Supremacy as superweapons (the former two are technically, but it massively pushes the definition).

Rogue One doesn't count: it's not a mainline Star Wars film, and serves as a prequel film to ANH. The point of the entire film is that it's based on these events and the Death Star, even taking place just an hour before ANH.

You have 4 of 9 mainline films with super weapons as a plot-device, and the Death Star II hardly even plays an active role in Return of the Jedi. That's not to say I disagree with you getting bored with superweapons, but what you said here is just wrong.

0 and being the last uninspired piece of garbage it was in the end. It either should have ignored TLJ and the controversy at the end or made something else. Because it was a shit movie and not a good product by any means considering the Joker and R1 both had bigger box offices interim of thier proportional scale oft he protect compared to TROS. While the fan seems to like the movie better it was still a dumb movie that did not need to exist and you can skip the first 2 movies and be fine because it legit seems nothing happened to warrant these movies making in-universe. It seems like the TROS needs to be recounted a little bit too I give it a 1/10.

It did ignore TLJ, and that was one of the reasons why so many people were mad at it. I don't like TROS either, my dude.

You keep bringing up budget, so I'm just going to say it. Nobody cares how much money these films made. There are amazing, extremely popular films that made virtually no money. Box Office is not a very good indication of anything, and professional critics hardly ever use it as a metric.

Giving these films a 1/10 is also really strange. We're you not entertained at all? How does this movie get the lowest rating you could possibly give a film? Most Asylum films, for example, are purposely awful movies that are worse by pretty much any metric imaginable.

My point was instead of going the easy road to something different and make a change in star wars cannon. We really do need the next movies or tv shows going the nano death star route. It's boring and uninspired to be with and my idea would at least have gotten the film Slimer outcome and not had to blow up a planet to please everybody. I was trying to say do something different for once and put those ideas the superlaser siege cannon a planetary turbolaser and orbital autocannon and hybridized those technologies and seem to result of its totally something the first order the final order the sith enteral and the galactic empire would do. Fits within the universe at large and would make an interesting movie I think. And a lot better than ROJ endgame fanboy part two.

Hybridising does not fit with the universe at large because they've never done it. You've even made it a point to complain about the ubiquity of Death Star clones.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

The SPHA was the precursor in some respects to the death star design in terms of the overall firing mechanism, Box office is indeed a shit metric the 2 transformers movies are an excellent example of that. Really I mean it certainly did not struggle to keep up with those ships, to say the least. The lack of proper fighter cover for the FO fleet. Yes TLJ ATOC And TROS the revenge of the sith lack superweapons as the main component and even to a certain extent the sixth movie. It did not need to give certain aspects of Legends like the resurrection of the emperor any good fitting in reality. It retcons the Ot by making Palps survive the death star instead of ending him for good. The death of the single largest and most powerful capital ship really would not charge anything much I just do not believe that. Considering that an executor class falling into the death star charged galactic history forever. While the superlaser kind of makes a little sense than scale up something like the supremacy make it a normal shaped StarWars ship and put dozens of them don't with ion pulse cannons to both disable enemy capital ships and destroy planetary grade defenses from orbit and the superlaser armed warships to then destroy those planets. So a supremacy-armed hybrid orbital autocannon superlaser siege cannon and planetary grade turbolaser thing makes sense to weaken energy fleets and bases before destroying the entire planet in on go. a Litteral fleet kills and a superweapon fleet the best of both worlds. The resurgent class battlecruiser is capable of using kyber crystal to enhance its firepower which is a hybrid of a lightsabre which uses them and a turbolaser a capital ship grade weapon system even if it is not common at all and is only given a few starships lightsabres are not common. But they still exist so it is a little hybrid-based technology it little makes sense. Or just but all three of those weapons system in three dedicated capital ships and see what happens to the overall state of the galaxy in a short time.It would make at least some sense.

 

[ByAsura]

The SPHA was the precursor in some respects to the death star design in terms of the overall firing mechanism

The LAAT/i's composite beam turrets were also smaller versions of the Death Star's focusing array.

Really I mean it certainly did not struggle to keep up with those ships, to say the least. The lack of proper fighter cover for the FO fleet.

Not sure what this is supposed to mean.

It did not need to give certain aspects of Legends like the resurrection of the emperor any good fitting in reality. It retcons the Ot by making Palps survive the death star instead of ending him for good.

100% agree. It was already extremely stupid to recycle a Legends comic that was pretty much universally seen as low quality. But then they don't explain anything.

Palpatine didn't survive in the conventional sense, his body was destroyed and his essence had to be transferred to a new clone body. Rey's father was one attempt at a clone body, but it ended up not being Force Sensitive and Palpatine just exiled him to Jakku, or something like that. It's a dumb explanation, but they still should have revealed this in the film.

The death of the single largest and most powerful capital ship really would not charge anything much I just do not believe that. Considering that an executor class falling into the death star charged galactic history forever.

Those two statements just don't align with each other. Also, the destruction of the Supremacy pretty much did change nothing since the Resistance were reduced to a few starships.

While the superlaser kind of makes a little sense than scale up something like the supremacy make it a normal shaped StarWars ship and put dozens of them don't with ion pulse cannons to both disable enemy capital ships and destroy planetary grade defenses from orbit and the superlaser armed warships to then destroy those planets. So a supremacy-armed hybrid orbital autocannon superlaser siege cannon and planetary grade turbolaser thing makes sense to weaken energy fleets and bases before destroying the entire planet in on go. a Litteral fleet kills and a superweapon fleet the best of both worlds. The resurgent class battlecruiser is capable of using kyber crystal to enhance its firepower which is a hybrid of a lightsabre which uses them and a turbolaser a capital ship grade weapon system even if it is not common at all and is only given a few starships lightsabres are not common. But they still exist so it is a little hybrid-based technology it little makes sense. Or just but all three of those weapons system in three dedicated capital ships and see what happens to the overall state of the galaxy in a short time.It would make at least some sense.

The Xyston is kind of just that, though. It's bristling with a superlaser, massive amounts of turbolasers, ion cannons, point-defence laser cannons, missiles, mag-pulse warheads, etc. All of these weapon systems are also far more powerful than something like the Imperial-II.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Yes, those composite weapons turrets help inspire the Death Star's main weapon I meant to say that the Supremacy was at the very least fast enough to keep up with the first order fleet for a while.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

I don't like TROS and even I would still give it a 5/10.
It's not even the worst made star wars movie

 

[ByAsura]

Yeah, tbh, even the worst Star Wars movies are just average films.

I've heard people say TFA is the worst movie they've ever seen. If that's true, then they probably haven't seen many movies.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

they should watch such classics as The Incredible Bulk or The Room or Trolls 2.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

[@Shadowbokunohero@ByAsura would still agree with that but it's really ******* bad on a whole new level just wished TIJ was ignored in this movie because I just think the end result would have been better without the retconning. And the movie should have moved on from TLJ within 30 seconds, not over 2 hours worth of screen time. The Transformers movies really do suck though we can all agree they are shit movies of the lowest order possible and should not be given any weight to the overall lore of the universe they are in. They are shit-level attack potency durability speed intelligence range and more. As someone who thinks mando and the sequels as a whole suck to a new level, I like the overall art direction and the overall look of them. As well as going in a new direction for star wars witch turned out to be a really bad thing. Yes, mando has some good episodes in it. It in my opinion really needed a more adult overall story plot and arc to make it interesting a little darker grimmer and messed up. I think the Sequels and mando should be retconned into hell and ignored. But I think the sequel could have used a more original art direction than just comparing and pasting the to stuff and an overall grimmer darker and more messed up tone to them. I also do not like Return of the Jedi because of the Rise Of Skywalker. But the sequels do like like a more modern version of the OT in many repects and bad but not really bad. They suffer in my opinion poor writing directi8n in storytelling arcs and development for its plot story and characters. As well as ray being way more powerful than she needs to be. Plus it recons wat too much and trys to please way too many people for its last installment to work.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Well Just for Fun what are your guys ratings for each of the 12 Theater released films

12. The Clone Wars 2008 4/10
11. Attack Of The Clones is a 4/10
10 Rise of Skywalker 5/10
9. The Phantom Menace 6/10
8. Rogue One 6/10
7. Solo 7/10
6. Return of the Jedi 7/10
5 The Force Awakens 7/10
4. Revenge Of The Sith 8/10
3. The Last Jedi 8/10
2. Empire Strikes Back 9/10
1. A New Hope 9/10

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

Why the Last Jedi an 8 out of ten. I agree with the top 2 4 tough 6 8 and 11 but not the other 3. Poe did act like a jackass in every single respect but every single person needed for the battles ahead and he wound up backstabbing her and causing more damage in the end than she did because at least she died for something if I think it was the stupid overall reason. I think it would have been made better if a republic fleet jumped out of hyperspace with the first-order one.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Revenge of the Sith actually happens to be my favorite Star Wars movie, and I overall actually do think the prequel trilogy is better than the new trilogy, but even the new trilogy I think is overhated but so are the prequels. Excluding the Clone Wars movie, I don't consider any of the movies Terrible per say; I think Phantom Menace and Rise of Skywalker are just okay.

 

[Dinobot1996]

My ratings are as follows:
Empire Strikes Back 9/10
A New Hope 9/10
Return of the Jedi 8.5/10
Revenge of the Sith 8/10
The Force Awakens 8/10
The Last Jedi 8/10
Rogue One 7.5/10
Solo 7.5/10
The Rise of Skywalker 6.5/10
The Phantom Menace 6/10
Attack of the Clones 6/10
The Clone Wars 6/10

But really, I've enjoyed all the movies, even if some of them have more room for improvement than others.

 

[ByAsura]

Return of the Jedi 9/10
A New Hope 8/10
Empire Strikes Back 8/10
Revenge of the Sith 8/10
The Phantom Menace 8/10
The Last Jedi 7.5/10
The Force Awakens 7/10
Rogue One 7/10
Attack of the Clones 6.5/10
Solo 6/10
Rise of Skywalker 5/10

I'm heavily biased towards RotJ, and I always have been. It has more flaws than most of these movies, but I still like it the best.

 

[Catalyst75]

100% agree. It was already extremely stupid to recycle a Legends comic that was pretty much universally seen as low quality. But then they don't explain anything.

That's Abrams' problem, I'd argue. He seems content to leave it to others to explain things in more detail while only giving the bare bones explanation. Look at "Into Darkness", for example. It was left to a comic book to explain why Khan looked like Benedict Cumberbatch in the film vs. his original appearance.

The most we got from the film was Palpatine repeating "The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be...unnatural." Expand that by having Palpatine say on-screen that his survival was the result of Darth Plagueis' teachings and it'd be so much more clear. Doing so would turn Palpatine's recounting of Darth Plagueis' story into an act of retroactive foreshadowing and link the Prequels firmly with the Sequel. And I think it'd only take 15 seconds of screen-time at minimum.

Heck, I'd personally consider Force healing and Ben using the Force to save Rey from death, albeit at the cost of his own life, a mirror to Anakin in "Revenge of the Sith", of Ben succeeding by returning to the Light, where Anakin failed in falling to Darkness.

 

[CSO_Class_Supercarrier]

@Catalyst75 Yeah because Ray's powers were never explained in the Force Awakens but in the secondary source material. At both Annika and luke are the two sides of the chosen ones as we as being the emperor's son and grandson. Ray being the emperor the family was a had ad hoc last-minute decision like with much of the movie it sucked.