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Yet Another Star Wars Revision Thread (Canon)
- Thread starter Soldier_Blue
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- #42
In Canon, at least some of Palpatine's Royal Guard were rumoured (I mean in-universe rumours and not fan theories/rumours) to be Force sensitive. No solid confirmation though.XING06 said:
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he was trapped on an island and literally saved the last hope of the galaxy after being disconnected from the force for decades. he gave his life to save what was left of the resistance, that is not going out like a bitch at all
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He gave his life to show up as an Astral Projection, punk Kylo Ren... then just kinda disappear. This was after almost murdering the kid, making the kid feel betrayed and angry, having him go evil, and then just giving up and letting the whole Galaxy rot because of his stupid mistakes. (Also why did he have a map showing exactly where he was if he was just came to the planet to die, did he want company?)
Kind of a lame way to go out honestly.
And why have him not get killed by Kylo Ren... if he was just gonna die anyway?
Kind of a lame way to go out honestly.
And why have him not get killed by Kylo Ren... if he was just gonna die anyway?
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Yeah, you realized he had no way off the island?, as for the whole Kylo thing, yeah he sensed darkness in him and for a split second made a horrible choice, he regretted it literally seconds later. this shows that he isn't an infallible character, he has faults just like everyone hero or not. also, Kylo had already darkness in his heart and would have eventually betrayed Luke anyway, saying he is the single main cause is ridiculous.
They didn't have a map to luke skywalker.. they had a map to ach to where Luke was.
This gives weigh more weight to Luke as a character, and by the end of the film acknowledges his mistakes and saves the resistance. just because he didn't pull off some ridiculous force feat doesn't make it less impressive.
They didn't have a map to luke skywalker.. they had a map to ach to where Luke was.
This gives weigh more weight to Luke as a character, and by the end of the film acknowledges his mistakes and saves the resistance. just because he didn't pull off some ridiculous force feat doesn't make it less impressive.
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Luke isn't meant to be the hero that saves the day, this isn't his movie. and him becoming one with the force is way better than simply being killed by Kylo who was beaten by an untrained force user.
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also, can I suggest this quote "The rebellion is reborn today. The war is just beginning. And I will not be the last Jedi." for TLJ luke
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Then why did they go out of their way to show the X-Wing other than a fake out... that ultimately didn't matter. He sensed darkness in his own nephew, so he decided to kill him? Even for a second? He found faith in his own father, WHO MURDERED BILLIONS, slaughtered children and everything... and he still believed in him til the very end, only questioning that allegiance when he threatened his sister... but he notices his nephew is dark and mysterious and before he even tries to think about helping him and finding the way to bring him back, he just decides to murder HIS NEPHEW IN HIS SLEEP. Even if it was just for a second.
They said in the first movie that it was a map to Luke.
I'd rather have all the weight of his sacrifice by actually standing up to Kylo then just showing up in Astral form, ******* off, and then just dying alone. It just feels like a terrible ending for the character.
They said in the first movie that it was a map to Luke.
I'd rather have all the weight of his sacrifice by actually standing up to Kylo then just showing up in Astral form, ******* off, and then just dying alone. It just feels like a terrible ending for the character.
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they mentioned it as a map to him because it leads to same place nothing more.
this is nothing new. Luke sensed the good in vader
When he sensed Kylo he did not and was afraid
this has always been a part of Luke's character, he almost attempted to kill both Palpatine and Vader while still keeping the i will not kill you father act.
Luke has always had trouble with his emotions .
Kylo killing Luke would be pure bullshit, and im happy they didnt go that cliche route.
this is nothing new. Luke sensed the good in vader
When he sensed Kylo he did not and was afraid
this has always been a part of Luke's character, he almost attempted to kill both Palpatine and Vader while still keeping the i will not kill you father act.
Luke has always had trouble with his emotions .
Kylo killing Luke would be pure bullshit, and im happy they didnt go that cliche route.
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Agree to disagree as we are derailing the thread
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- Thread starter
- #52
Okay so...
Phasma is definitely superhuman. She gets two good feats in the Captain Phasma comics.
She jumps across a 10 to 12 metre wide chasm. She does so from a standing position and not with a running leap. That is blatantly superhuman.
She also takes on a building sized squid creature, whose skin is impervious to heavy blaster pistol fire, and kills it with her bare hands and a vibroknife.
So Phasma should get superhuman agility and 9-A physical strength. This scales to Finn (fought evenly against her) and FN-2199 (he was always a rival to Finn as shown in the Before the Awakening novel).
Phasma is definitely superhuman. She gets two good feats in the Captain Phasma comics.
She jumps across a 10 to 12 metre wide chasm. She does so from a standing position and not with a running leap. That is blatantly superhuman.
She also takes on a building sized squid creature, whose skin is impervious to heavy blaster pistol fire, and kills it with her bare hands and a vibroknife.
So Phasma should get superhuman agility and 9-A physical strength. This scales to Finn (fought evenly against her) and FN-2199 (he was always a rival to Finn as shown in the Before the Awakening novel).
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Consistently 9-A Finn.
Feels good man.
Feels good man.
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I think I have a good feat and reasoning to put Wookies and Disney Thrawn at 9-A with physical strikes as well. Give me some time.The Everlasting said:
Then may be we can pit Thrawn against some Spartans from Halo.
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- #56
There's a canon comic feat which could bump adult male Wookies up to 9-A. Then there is the fact that the Force Awakens novelization portrays Chewie as being stronger than Finn and Phasma. This would scale to adult male Trandoshans (the larger variety and not the human sized gecko looking variety) and in turn Garazeb Orrelios. Kallus and Thrawn both scale from Zeb. Plus, Zeb being 9-A would make sense out of him grappling with this bloody thing and not getting stomped instantly.XING06 said:
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@Soldier Blue
I was actually including Chewie and Zeb in the other people category.
Oh yeah I forgot about him fighting Zeb. However, if you notice where Zeb is fighting Kallus he focuses a lot on dodging; he only blocks directly once in the fight (the rest of the times are rough parries/strikes against a spinning staff movement which has less body mass behind it meaning a lot less force) and that is with Zeb's arms not fully extended still in bent position (nowhere near as much force - that's actually a standard move when fighting with the bo you do that to reduce force then hook the bottom/off-hand side of your staff into their blind spot under their arm). Also, when he kicks Zeb he barely feels it, he was only a little knocked back with no sign of pain or even being stunned. Therefore, I would still actually suggest putting Kallus and Thrawn at only high 9B, just able to fight 9A b/c they're so skilled. Also note how he get's knocked out by Ezra force pushing him into a wall, which is undamaged. A 9A would not be scratched by that sort of attack.
Oh yeah while we're at it if we're rescaling we should probably put the B1 droids at 9C and durability at 9B remember that one time in clone wars where a clone lost his gun and punched the droid and apparently hurt his hand.
PS. I've got a question about Boss's armor. Does he actually have the Mark III? The Mark II was nowhere near as strong. Also from what I remember shouldn't it be High 8-C with shields not higher? Katarn-class armor is tough but only around as tough as Mandalorian plate which we have as 8-C.
I was actually including Chewie and Zeb in the other people category.
Oh yeah I forgot about him fighting Zeb. However, if you notice where Zeb is fighting Kallus he focuses a lot on dodging; he only blocks directly once in the fight (the rest of the times are rough parries/strikes against a spinning staff movement which has less body mass behind it meaning a lot less force) and that is with Zeb's arms not fully extended still in bent position (nowhere near as much force - that's actually a standard move when fighting with the bo you do that to reduce force then hook the bottom/off-hand side of your staff into their blind spot under their arm). Also, when he kicks Zeb he barely feels it, he was only a little knocked back with no sign of pain or even being stunned. Therefore, I would still actually suggest putting Kallus and Thrawn at only high 9B, just able to fight 9A b/c they're so skilled. Also note how he get's knocked out by Ezra force pushing him into a wall, which is undamaged. A 9A would not be scratched by that sort of attack.
Oh yeah while we're at it if we're rescaling we should probably put the B1 droids at 9C and durability at 9B remember that one time in clone wars where a clone lost his gun and punched the droid and apparently hurt his hand.
PS. I've got a question about Boss's armor. Does he actually have the Mark III? The Mark II was nowhere near as strong. Also from what I remember shouldn't it be High 8-C with shields not higher? Katarn-class armor is tough but only around as tough as Mandalorian plate which we have as 8-C.
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So, do all top jedi get galaxy level attack range? Or just luke and snoke, that retroactively scales to everyone else.
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@7th Ki'oon
Palpatine and Yoda have showcased galactic range. So has Mother Talzin. Now Snoke and Luke. I don't think anybody else has.
@XING06
In the Rebels Season 2 episode "The Honourable Ones" Kallus and Zeb go at each other in hand to hand combat and appear to be mostly evenly matched. Kallus even takes punches and kicks from Zeb. In the Rebels Season 3 episode "Through Imperial Eyes" Thrawn blocks a punch from one of his reprogrammed sentry droids with his bare hands (and keep in mind that those things can overpower Zeb). In Zero Hour, Kallus contends with him in hand to hand combat and lost only due to Thrawn's superior skill. I think it's okay to put them at 9-A given all this.
Yes, B1s should be put at 9-B in durability. B2s would get 9-B striking strength. So would commando droids since they're slightly stronger than even ARC troopers.
That profile covers Legends Boss since he and other Clone Commandos have no feats in Canon. Legends Boba once walked away from a thermal detonator explosion so we know that Mandalorian armour in legends is High 8-C in durability. Katarn-class armour is at least as tough seeing as how it's made from durasteel and duraplast.
Palpatine and Yoda have showcased galactic range. So has Mother Talzin. Now Snoke and Luke. I don't think anybody else has.
@XING06
In the Rebels Season 2 episode "The Honourable Ones" Kallus and Zeb go at each other in hand to hand combat and appear to be mostly evenly matched. Kallus even takes punches and kicks from Zeb. In the Rebels Season 3 episode "Through Imperial Eyes" Thrawn blocks a punch from one of his reprogrammed sentry droids with his bare hands (and keep in mind that those things can overpower Zeb). In Zero Hour, Kallus contends with him in hand to hand combat and lost only due to Thrawn's superior skill. I think it's okay to put them at 9-A given all this.
Yes, B1s should be put at 9-B in durability. B2s would get 9-B striking strength. So would commando droids since they're slightly stronger than even ARC troopers.
That profile covers Legends Boss since he and other Clone Commandos have no feats in Canon. Legends Boba once walked away from a thermal detonator explosion so we know that Mandalorian armour in legends is High 8-C in durability. Katarn-class armour is at least as tough seeing as how it's made from durasteel and duraplast.
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Nice. That's a Legends upgrade though and I suggest we put this in a seperate category in his key, b/c he's pure force energy so he's not constrained by his physical limitations anymore. Do you have any AP examples for while he's in ghost state cuz he is pure force energy so he's probably more powerful in comparison?
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Luke should get projection, yes/
Hera shouldn't scale, feels like plot armor.
Scaling Dooku and Obi with Mace is fine
Hera shouldn't scale, feels like plot armor.
Scaling Dooku and Obi with Mace is fine
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also, something we haven't talked about a lot but I just wanted to make sure..do we all agree to 7-C likely 7-B TLJ Rey?
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yup
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Snoke should be 7-C to 7-B likely higher for being able to overpower Rey.
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Also, we really need to get a consensus on the speeds.
I suggest Palpaltine, Yoda, Mother Talzin, Windu, Dooku, Vader, Adult Ahsokha, Old Obi-wan, Late Clone Wars Anakin (surpasses Dooku), Late Clone Wars Obi-wan (Maybe? He beat Anakin but he utilizes a defensive style and Anakin wasn't exactly in his right mind), and ROTJ Luke get MHS+.
Jedi masters on council level get MHS with MHS+ reactions, b/c they are not on Windu/Dooku's level (Includes Qi-Gon Jinn, Early CW Anakin, Early CW Obi-wan, Maul, Ventress, etc.).
Kanaan Jarrus level adepts (eg. Most advanced padawans and jedi) MHS.
Thoughts anyone?
I suggest Palpaltine, Yoda, Mother Talzin, Windu, Dooku, Vader, Adult Ahsokha, Old Obi-wan, Late Clone Wars Anakin (surpasses Dooku), Late Clone Wars Obi-wan (Maybe? He beat Anakin but he utilizes a defensive style and Anakin wasn't exactly in his right mind), and ROTJ Luke get MHS+.
Jedi masters on council level get MHS with MHS+ reactions, b/c they are not on Windu/Dooku's level (Includes Qi-Gon Jinn, Early CW Anakin, Early CW Obi-wan, Maul, Ventress, etc.).
Kanaan Jarrus level adepts (eg. Most advanced padawans and jedi) MHS.
Thoughts anyone?
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Okay so...
Before the "peak human and near-human" revision can get underway, I need to make three profiles as they dictate a lot of the scaling.
Before the "peak human and near-human" revision can get underway, I need to make three profiles as they dictate a lot of the scaling.
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The scaling from luke, as he calls himself a master jedi, it should ergo scale to everyone in that class and above.Soldier Blue said:
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That's not how Force amping works.
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If they needed to actively concentrate their durability in a barrier like that they'd get one-shot by every Force attack.
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@Everlasting
Er no I mean they do have precog, so now that I think about it in combat it's around the same I guess no matter how it works. It's only when they're comepletely caught off guard like in Order 66 where we actually see a force user die to blaster attacks.
Still adding another category to the key wouldn't make much difference, just uping what their rating is when caught off guard. I'll edit my suggestion off the page so nobody else gets confused.
PS What do you think about the speed scaling I proposed above though?
Er no I mean they do have precog, so now that I think about it in combat it's around the same I guess no matter how it works. It's only when they're comepletely caught off guard like in Order 66 where we actually see a force user die to blaster attacks.
Still adding another category to the key wouldn't make much difference, just uping what their rating is when caught off guard. I'll edit my suggestion off the page so nobody else gets confused.
PS What do you think about the speed scaling I proposed above though?
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also Jedi should be wall level too, not street level correct?
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Depends. Low end Padawans should still be Street Level or so, even early Padawan Anakin. Until they have some competence, like Episode 1 Obi-Wan or Episode II Anakin, are at least Wall Level. But that's an expectation for them, by the time of Episode II Anakin is like the A student being taught by C Student Obi-Wan, but in terms of power, they are dominated by Dooku, in fact until he fought Yoda, I'd say he was toying with them.
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There are some Padawans in Clone Wars which do a City Block level feat. Street level for Padawan Anakin seems hilariously low.
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