Sonic speed downgrade.

[Theuser789]

I'm sorry.

If Gemerl WAS light-years away from Earth he wouldn't have ended up laying face down on a beach. Earth's pull is strong but not that strong.

Even if he did "get launched" light-years requires he'd have gotten launched at FTL speeds for any timeframe to have make sense. Narrative context clues lead you to believe he crashed not long after the fight. Assuming all these extra additives is jumping through more hoops than the game wants you to.

Perhaps it simply is a random ass space background and no thought was put into it.

There's a ton of leaps in logic and assumptions here to make this work. You don't just end back up on Earth if you're defeated light-years from it's gravitational pull.

But whatever. Repeat the same trite arguments in waves like I know you're going to, extrapolating everything you can to make this feat make sense when the simpler conclusion only requires one assumption compared to the leaps in the opposition's here.

Your side requires assumptions that goes against every other game in the series in terms of consistency

The argument in favor is that the explosion launched him to Earth, that's all, YOUR side is the one who argued the Earth's pull made him "fall", YOUR side is making assumptions, we are taking things at face granted, honestly this attitude of "the side I don't like IS DISHONEST FILTHY WANKERS" is the single thing that hurts threads the most, and it's always support every single downgrade and upgrades of "rival" series, it's annoying, Sonic fans don't do that yet are always treated to such

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Ok, the arguments are getting circular. We gotta have staff here

No man. You’re just stone walling. All your arguments have been debunked. I can feel your biased energy against the verse, so I suggest you don’t get involved in Sonic threads again. You’re only poisoning the well.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Your side requires assumptions that goes against every other game in the series in terms of consistency

The argument in favor is that the explosion launched him to Earth, that's all, YOUR side is the one who argued the Earth's pull made him "fall", YOUR side is making assumptions, we are taking things at face granted, honestly this attitude of "the side I don't like IS DISHONEST FILTHY WANKERS" is the single thing that hurts threads the most, and it's always support every single downgrade and upgrades of "rival" series, it's annoying, Sonic fans don't do that yet are always treated to such

First, I never said “dishonest filthy wankers”. Honestly, you’re the one with “dishonest filthy downplayers” attitude. Secondly, the the assumption that emerl was light years away, got hit by an explosion and landed exactly on earth is absolutely ridiculous

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

No man. You’re just stone walling. All your arguments have been debunked. I can feel your biased energy against the verse, so I suggest you don’t get involved in Sonic threads again. You’re only poisoning the well.

Oh right. Stonewalling. Damn. I guess that Emerl just happened to be sent at an absolutely perfect angle so that he can land on earth with a 0.0001 percent of a chance that this happens

 

[MysticMania]

I guess that Emerl just happened to be sent at an absolutely perfect angle so that he can land on earth with a 0.0001 percent of a chance that this happens

It sounds dumb but honestly, that's more likely than him not being light years into space, I feel. Sonic fell in a straight line towards Earth in Unleashed I believe, for example, despite being in space.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

It sounds dumb but honestly, that's more likely than him not being light years into space, I feel. Sonic fell in a straight line towards Earth in Unleashed I believe, for example, despite being in space.

Being in outer space and literally light years away is you assume is a huge difference

 

[Theuser789]

First, I never said “dishonest filthy wankers”. Honestly, you’re the one with “dishonest filthy downplayers” attitude. Secondly, the the assumption that emerl was light years away, got hit by an explosion and landed exactly on earth is absolutely ridiculous

"This attitude of", I never said you actualy said that, reading comprehension dude, argument from incredulity, again

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Ok, so I asked one person about this, copy pasting his argument “Gemerl ending up back on earth is part of the story, the level background isn't. And realistically it makes no sense for him to have been sent from a star cluster to earth by an explosion, not only would that mean the explosion would need to launch him at MFTL+ speed, but if his angle of trajectory was off by even a tiny fraction of a degree at such a distance, he would completely miss the earth. The chances of him being launched directly to earth randomly from lightyears away would be so infinitesimal that there's no way it can be defended as a likely possibility. Him falling/being propelled toward Earth from much closer makes a lot more sense.”

 

[Theuser789]

You are stonewalling by just repeating a fallacy over and over again, but call staff, I doubt they will disagree

 

[Theuser789]

Ok, so I asked one person about this, copy pasting his argument “Gemerl ending up back on earth is part of the story, the level background isn't. And realistically it makes no sense for him to have been sent from a star cluster to earth by an explosion, not only would that mean the explosion would need to launch him at MFTL+ speed, but if his angle of trajectory was off by even a tiny fraction of a degree at such a distance, he would completely miss the earth. The chances of him being launched directly to earth randomly from lightyears away would be so infinitesimal that there's no way it can be defended as a likely possibility. Him falling/being propelled toward Earth from much closer makes a lot more sense.”

Who? He is just repeating your argument from incredulity without adressing the points, is there any reason I should care about this person's oppinion?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

You are stonewalling by just repeating a fallacy over and over again, but call staff, I doubt they will disagree

Did you read the argument? A) Gemerl ending up on earth is a part of the story, background isn’t.
B)He would need to be at a perfect ******* angle to land exactly on earth. I’m repeating arguments cause you don’t bother to debunk them, that’s why

 

[Firestorm808]

For the sake of a low-end of the feat, let's just say that the fight was moon distance away since that's where most of the space fights happened in the earlier titles.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

For the sake of a low-end of the feat, let's just say that the fight was moon distance away since that's where most of the space fights happened in the earlier titles.

Sorry this makes no sense. Using moon just because most fights are on the moon is... questionable

 

[MysticMania]

My issue with you argument, Da_Lunge, is that I feel it's asking us to simply ignore the fact that the final fight takes place in a very specific part of the universe, and ignore every aspect besides, "they're weirdly on Earth again", which has happened both before and after this game in the franchise. It's similar to asking us to ignore SA2's final boss setting because Shadow plummets to Earth from space. I can't do that I'm afraid, and I hope others won't either. I don't mean it against you at all, but I feel like we're just being asked to forget anything about the feat period.

 

[Theuser789]

For the sake of a low-end of the feat, let's just say that the fight was moon distance away since that's where most of the space fights happened in the earlier titles.

We literally have a fight on the moon that is completely different in background in made by the exact same people and in the same series

As I said, we already have a recalc

Sonic Advance 3: Super Sonic Speed Recalced

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Theuser789]

Did you read the argument? A) Gemerl ending up on earth is a part of the story, background isn’t.
B)He would need to be at a perfect ******* angle to land exactly on earth. I’m repeating arguments cause you don’t bother to debunk them, that’s why

A background is a part of the story as much as that event, Sky Chase background being the sky shows Sonic is flying in the Tornado, background in 2D games are as much as part of the story than anything else, without them there would be no sense of scale

Because your "argument" is a fallacy, plain and simple, and I still don't see why your mysterious person oppinion matters if they can't even post on the thread, nor I know them

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

My issue with you argument, Da_Lunge, is that I feel it's asking us to simply ignore the fact that the final fight takes place in a very specific part of the universe, and ignore every aspect besides, "they're weirdly on Earth again", which has happened both before and after this game in the franchise. It's similar to asking us to ignore SA2's final boss setting because Shadow plummets to Earth from space. I can't do that I'm afraid, and I hope others won't either. I don't mean it against you at all, but I feel like we're just being asked to forget anything about the feat period.

Yeah right. Again, Gemerl ending up on earth is a plot point. Level background isn't. Assuming Gemerl was at such a perfect angle to land exactly on earth is nothing short of ridiculous.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

A background is a part of the story as much as that event, Sky Chase background being the sky shows Sonic is flying in the Tornado, background in 2D games are as much as part of the story than anything else, without them there would be no sense of scale

Because your "argument" is a fallacy, plain and simple, and I still don't see why your mysterious person oppinion matters if they can't even post on the thread, nor I know them

Backgrounds are related to plot in only some specific situations.

 

[Theuser789]

Backgrounds are related to plot in only some specific situations.

And in this case it's very clearly plot decision, plus I disagree, backgrounds are always connected to the plot, without them we wouldn't know where the characters would be, better to just put a big black screen or some meme If they are as irrelevant as you claim

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP. Shake told me what this was about and given his descriptions, it sounds like an airtight debunk.






Anyone who knows me in the slightest knows that I'm talking out my ass and no way in hell will I get in between this unless begged.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

And in this case it's very clearly plot decision, plus I disagree, backgrounds are always connected to the plot, without them we wouldn't know where the characters would be, better to just put a big black screen or some meme If they are as irrelevant as you claim

Okay. How are clouds in Super Mario Bros connected to the plot? Ohhhhh, they have mouths. That means they're zombies infected by Bowser! If backgrounds were always for plot, theories like these would take place

 

[Theuser789]

Man

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

A background is a part of the story as much as that event, Sky Chase background being the sky shows Sonic is flying in the Tornado, background in 2D games are as much as part of the story than anything else, without them there would be no sense of scale

Because your "argument" is a fallacy, plain and simple, and I still don't see why your mysterious person oppinion matters if they can't even post on the thread, nor I know them

Fallacy how? Explain how Gemerl was launched many lightyears at such a perfect angle to end up on earth.

 

[Firestorm808]

In any case, removing the feat from the description would still leave it the same Tier.

 

[MysticMania]

Oh dang, it's off topic but you have a comic? That's really cool.

But, yeah. I just personally can't buy the debunk at all.

 

[Theuser789]

Okay. How are clouds in Super Mario Bros connected to the plot? Ohhhhh, they have mouths. That means they're zombies infected by Bowser! If backgrounds were always for plot, theories like these would take place

False equivalency and mental gynastics and cherrypicking, I said the background tells us where we are, not that everything is important in it

The fallacy of an argument from incredulity, I linked you it earlier in the thread Lunge, read it

 

[ElixirBlue]

Narrative context clues lead you to believe he crashed not long after the fight.

There's a ton of leaps in logic and assumptions here to make this work. You don't just end back up on Earth if you're defeated light-years from it's gravitational pull.

Brings up narrative context clues to support argument

Completely ignores ignores how space near earth has been differently shown by the narrative in Advance 1,2 and 3 to call the feat wank

Sonic Advance and Space

Sonic Advance 1:

Sonic Advance 2:

Sonic Advance 3:

 

[Theuser789]

In any case, removing the feat from the description would still leave it the same Tier.

True, but evidence has already been presented, and the recalc I posted only uses what is the game, with no assumptions

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Out of curiosity, what is the value of the Nonagression feat currently?

 

[Theuser789]

We literally have a fight on the moon that is completely different in background in made by the exact same people and in the same series

As I said, we already have a recalc

Sonic Advance 3: Super Sonic Speed Recalced

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here's the recalc, the current is 1.4 billion C

 

[ShakeResounding]

Out of curiosity, what is the value of the Nonagression feat currently?

A little over 3 billion, recently got upgraded using proper methods of calcing rather than assuming.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Wait this is still going? Backgrounds are literally meant to showcase the scenery of one’s location. We know Sky Chase Zone takes place high within the skies because the background depicts clouds. We know Moon Zone actually takes place on the moon because the background depicts the Earth in the distance. If the Earth was close by it would’ve been depicted as such in the background like it is in Doomsday Zone, X-Zone, Dead Line, ect.

This “Bro the background is irrelevant” shit is stupid.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

But whatever. Repeat the same trite arguments in waves like I know you're going to, extrapolating everything you can to make this feat make sense when the simpler conclusion only requires one assumption compared to the leaps in the opposition's here.

You sound like a complete bitch dude.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Wait this is still going? Backgrounds are literally meant to showcase the scenery of one’s location. We know Sky Chase Zone takes place high within the skies because the background depicts clouds. We know Moon Zone actually takes place on the moon because the background depicts the Earth in the distance. If the Earth was close by it would’ve been depicted as such in the background like it is in Doomsday Zone, X-Zone, Dead Line, ect.

This “Bro the background is irrelevant” shit is stupid.

Mav's right. The names do speak to the distance. In fact, I think the feat is higher. Not only did they travel into deep space, but they travelled to a different universe where there's world peace, hence the name Nonagression Zone. Gemerl fell back to earth because it's a different earth altogether.

...aight I promise I'll stop after that one. In all seriousness, Sonic's clearly not in the same outer space as he was in the other 2/3 of his trilogy. Where that puts him, idk, but Earth's orbit is fishy. But take what I say with a grain of salt.

 

[ShakeResounding]

If the Earth was close by it would’ve been depicted as such in the background like it is in Doomsday Zone, X-Zone, Dead Line, ect.l

Literally this lol. The franchise has literally done what your argument for the debunk is trying to say has happened. If that's what they wanted to convey here, hint hint, they would have.

Shocker, I know.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

You sound like a complete bitch dude.

Hey I appreciate if you calm down a bit dude.

 

[ShakeResounding]

Asinine, butthurt babble

Sonic Scholars... Why do they loathe our intelligence?

 

[Theuser789]

Gemerl fell into a world without powerscaling, that's why he never showed up again

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Gemerl fell into a world without powerscaling, that's why he never showed up again

Like I said, he wound up in a world with world peace. And you can't have world peace with powerscaling existing.

 

[MysticMania]

Actually, I believe Gemerl may've fallen into the Underground, from Undertale. Via this, we can back up the claim of him scaling to Asriel, I feel.