Sonic speed downgrade.

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

The nebula in the background seems to make it clear that the fight doesn’t take place near Earth. As previously pointed out in the thread, the final bosses in the first two Advanced games visibly demonstrated that they were close to Earth by showing it in the background. To give an explanation as to why Gemerl fell back to Earth, that could be because the nebula is located above the Earth (after all you can travel omnidirectionally in space), so after being defeated he fell straight down. So I disagree with removing the feat.

He hell not wouldn't fall straight to Earth, from many lightyears not stopping over anything

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Bruh, no offense but did you miss a class in school? Like seriously, you are comparing a robot's gravitacional pull with an entire planet? Without outside force Earth's gravity isn't strong enough to pull small objects outside of it's orbit, otherwise the asteroids at the field would have fallen to Earth

Who missed a school class is a good question, my friend. Riddle me this: Where do you think do small asteroids come from? So small, they burn in the atmosphere before reaching the earth?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Sonic Advance and Space

Sonic Advance 1:

Sonic Advance 2:

Sonic Advance 3:

Ok. You seriously imply that space is like one big park or something? That if they once shown a certain type of background, only it exists>

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Who missed a school class is a good question, my friend. Riddle me this: Where do you think do small asteroids come from? So small, they burn in the atmosphere before reaching the earth?

Apperantly you did since if you'd pay attention in school, you would've learned that these astroids are orbiting the sun, an object far more massive with much more gravitational influence than earth, and they're either flung in Earth's direction by bigger objects, or Earth simply catches them in its gravitational influence (which fyi, only extend to about 1.5 million km) while it travels as it orbits the sun

Also if you'd remember the gravitational force formula, you would've realized why there's no way any object would just fall to Earth in deep space

 

[Theuser789]

Who missed a school class is a good question, my friend. Riddle me this: Where do you think do small asteroids come from? So small, they burn in the atmosphere before reaching the earth?

Like Gilad said it's not from Earth's gravity (https://www.planetary.org/articles/...ffects of Mars,near-Earth asteroids come from.) they only fall after reaching Earth's orbit because of the pull of other gravitational forces of the Sun and other planets

 

[Theuser789]

My point was that using our logic that objects can fall to Earth without any outside force outside of gravity than all asteroids should have already hit he Eartg, but they haven't because that's not how physics work

 

[Theuser789]

Ok. You seriously imply that space is like one big park or something? That if they once shown a certain type of background, only it exists>

The point is that it has been show consistantly that Earth shows in the background if they are actualy close to Earth, seen in sonic 2, 3&K, SA2, Heroes, Shadow, Rush, Unleashed, Colors, both previos Advance games and probably far more

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

He hell not wouldn't fall straight to Earth, from many lightyears not stopping over anything

You don’t seem to realize how big space is. Objects in space are very far apart, often by light years. So yeah it’s possible to travel light years straight and not hit anything.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Ok, I'm just making this comment and then leaving.

The argument of "Gemerl ends up on Earth" would have more weight if we actually knew how he got there or how long it took him to get there, all we know is that "Gemerl blows up, an unknown amount of time passes, then he's at a beach".

"But him being back on Earth is almost impossible unless he fell back to Earth" isn't really much better when the entire franchise is filled with unlikely events, like the Moon never showing it's blown off part everytime in reappears after Sonic Adventure 2, or Team Sonic and Team Dark being sent to the same period of time in the future by two unrelated characters.

Now, could the SA3 feat have a recalc? Probably, but I don't it should be discarded because of some plot hole.

 

[Theuser789]

It already got a reclac where the OP tried to deny it via this thread, even though everyone disagrees with him

Sonic Advance 3: Super Sonic Speed Recalced

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

You don’t seem to realize how big space is. Objects in space are very far apart, often by light years. So yeah it’s possible to travel light years straight and not hit anything.

It's possible, it's just very unlikely to just happen to travel all the way to earth from such distance. The chance of it is miniscule.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

My point was that using our logic that objects can fall to Earth without any outside force outside of gravity than all asteroids should have already hit he Eartg, but they haven't because that's not how physics work

The majority of asteroids that start going to Earth burn in the atmosphere

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The majority of asteroids that start going to Earth burn in the atmosphere

This proves absolutely nothing. They burn because the atmpsphere provides a lot of friction which provides a lot of heat, which is why the asteroids are burning when they enter the atmosphere

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

This proves absolutely nothing. They burn because the atmpsphere provides a lot of friction which provides a lot of heat, which is why the asteroids are burning when they enter the atmosphere

Theuser said that if everything was pulled to Earth, it would be full of craters. I said asteroids are burnt in the atmosphere

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Theuser said that if everything was pulled to Earth, it would be full of craters. I said asteroids are burnt in the atmosphere

Then reply to User about what he said. Not me

 

[Theuser789]

The majority of asteroids that start going to Earth burn in the atmosphere

You really didn't understand a single thing I said right? Like holy shit this is being some selective type of argumentation right here. My points was that ALL asteroids would fall on Earth, I do know asteroids fall on Earth but as I showed with links and sources they fall because factors outside of Earth's gravity, only truly falling when they are close to orbit, otherwise they go to space, I genuily question how much you know about this subject, as well as your reading comprehension to make this argument

In fact the fact they do fall on Earth even though space is big shows that Gemerl being flung isn't impossible, since your only point is nitpick and fallacies

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

You really didn't understand a single thing I said right? Like holy shit this is being some selective type of argumentation right here. My points was that ALL asteroids would fall on Earth, I do know asteroids fall on Earth but as I showed with links and sources they fall because factors outside of Earth's gravity, only truly falling when they are close to orbit, otherwise they go to space, I genuily question how much you know about this subject, as well as your reading comprehension to make this argument

In fact the fact they do fall on Earth even though space is big shows that Gemerl being flung isn't impossible, since your only point is nitpick and fallacies

There are very little asteroids here, in general. Solar System is very empty of them

 

[Theuser789]

Uh, no

Asteroids

Plus you are still missing my point, my point is that ALL asteroids would fall using your logic, they don't, so you are wrong

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

There are very little asteroids here, in general. Solar System is very empty of them

No they aren't. The meteor showers we see annually comes from small asteroid that are orbiting the sun near earth's orbit, and Earth catches them with its gravitational influence

 

[MysticMania]

I honestly don't see why this feat shouldn't be solid. The numbers are solid I believe, and there've been many instances in past Sonic games of things falling to Earth at the speed they do when they really shouldn't. Also, we don't even have a timeframe, right? We can't assume Gemerl immediately fell to Earth after the battle was done, if so.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I honestly don't see why this feat shouldn't be solid. The numbers are solid I believe, and there've been many instances in past Sonic games of things falling to Earth at the speed they do when they really shouldn't. Also, we don't even have a timeframe, right? We can't assume Gemerl immediately fell to Earth after the battle was done, if so.

Immediately? So he was falling through light years in your opinion?

 

[MysticMania]

They were light years into space during the fight, so somehow, yes. Unless Gemerl was brought back or was teleported, but that wouldn't change the initial feat itself anyway. If you feel him falling to Earth disproves them being light years into space, then that's alright, but then you must also prove that they weren't light years into space. Personally, I see no way of legitimately arguing the latter.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

They were light years into space during the fight, so somehow, yes. Unless Gemerl was brought back or was teleported, but that wouldn't change the initial feat itself anyway. If you feel him falling to Earth disproves them being light years into space, then that's alright, but then you must also prove that they weren't light years into space. Personally, I see no way of legitimately arguing the latter.

They weren't, as evident by the fact that Gemerl was KOed and couldn't teleport, and he wasn't saved by anyone. Being close to earth and falling is the only option.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

They weren't, as evident by the fact that Gemerl was KOed and couldn't teleport, and he wasn't saved by anyone. Being close to earth and falling is the only option.

No it isn't. You can't really fall in deep space, especially not towards Earth because it's way outside its gravitational influence.

Stop repeating this argument ad-nauseum. We already debunked that argument of yours many times on this thread

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

No it isn't. You can't really fall in deep space, especially not towards Earth because it's way outside its gravitational influence.

Stop repeating this argument ad-nauseum. We already debunked that argument of yours many times on this thread

Yeah, by stating that there's no freaking gravity in space. If you're close enough to earth, you can still fall to it

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Yeah, by stating that there's no freaking gravity in space. If you're close enough to earth, you can still fall to it

Nobody states that gravity doesn't exists in outer space since it's clearly does. However, objects that are far from Earth would simply not fall towards it.

Also your assumption that the fight happens near earth (and less than 1.5 million km from it. Like you would've seen stuff like the moon if it was that close. And no nebula appears as close it looks from near Earth distance) is based on headcanon that Gemerl somehow fell despite: 1) There is no falling in deep space. Especially not towards Earth; and 2) Gemerl didn't fell. He was flung toward Sonic and Eggman before dissapearing from the screen

 

[MysticMania]

Da_Lunge, you're essentially arguing they're fighting in Earth's atmosphere, but you need to explain why the background openly resembles a star cluster, rather than Earth's atmosphere. We know the Advance games can show Earth from space with zero issue, so why didn't they here? Also, do you have any specific time frame in mind for how long it took Gemerl to "hit" Earth's surface, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Da_Lunge, you're essentially arguing they're fighting in Earth's atmosphere, but you need to explain why the background openly resembles a star cluster, rather than Earth's atmosphere. We know the Advance games can show Earth from space with zero issue, so why didn't they here? Also, do you have any specific time frame in mind for how long it took Gemerl to "hit" Earth's surface, if you don't mind me asking?

So, the timeframe huh? You seriously think Emerl could fall literal lightyears to earth? And near the star cluster, he most definitely wouldn’t be affected by its gravity.

 

[MysticMania]

It makes much more sense than the characters fighting near Earth, so, yes. Also, I believe it's implied that Eggman brought Sonic back to Earth, considering his appearance in Advance 3's ending cutscene. Who's to say the same couldn't have happened for Gemerl, in some way? Granted, this also doesn't affect the solidity of this feat.

 

[MysticMania]

Also: "Yeah, I don't see any indication of Gemerl "falling" to earth. He made it to earth, that's it." This is important to keep in mind.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Also: "Yeah, I don't see any indication of Gemerl "falling" to earth. He made it to earth, that's it." This is important to keep in mind.

Ok, how else would an unconscious robot end up on earth?

 

[JJSliderman]

He gets launched through space and lands on Earth.

 

[Firestorm808]

The nearest nebula is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula. How close would you need to be to have it take up most of the background?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

The nearest nebula is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helix_Nebula. How close would you need to be to have it take up most of the background?

This was already mentioned in the calc. It was calced to be something like 2.75 lightyears away from the nebula using angsizing

 

[MysticMania]

I'm bad at like, "thinking", and such, but I've seen the argument that the star cluster is in the background, far away from Sonic, and we simply see it due to the angle. However, it doesn't move at all in the fight, so if we were seeing it from a distance, wouldn't it be moving positions, somewhat?

 

[Theuser789]

It was already recalced thinking about those problems

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I'm sorry.

If Gemerl WAS light-years away from Earth he wouldn't have ended up laying face down on a beach. Earth's pull is strong but not that strong.

Even if he did "get launched" light-years requires he'd have gotten launched at FTL speeds for any timeframe to have make sense. Narrative context clues lead you to believe he crashed not long after the fight. Assuming all these extra additives is jumping through more hoops than the game wants you to.

Perhaps it simply is a random ass space background and no thought was put into it.

There's a ton of leaps in logic and assumptions here to make this work. You don't just end back up on Earth if you're defeated light-years from it's gravitational pull.

But whatever. Repeat the same trite arguments in waves like I know you're going to, extrapolating everything you can to make this feat make sense when the simpler conclusion only requires one assumption compared to the leaps in the opposition's here.

 

[MysticMania]

I agree that there wasn't thought put into it by the developers. I'm sure they weren't thinking, "hey Billy, sure we can put this 1 Billion C feat into a GBA game?" However, I do feel it's quite clear that the background very specifically resembles a star cluster, as opposed to Sonic's average space setting. If you'd really like to go all in on the argument of, "that's not what the developer intended", then you can of course, but please be prepared to nerf every single franchise's stats and feats on this website immediately afterwards.
Also, I can easily flip the card, and use this argument for myself. The background vividly resembles a star cluster, so that part can't be mistaken. What if the part the developers didn't think about wasn't the setting, but how they'd all end up back on Earth afterwards? Afterall, there are many instances of Sonic characters falling straight to Earth while in space, something that should essentially be impossible.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Ok, the arguments are getting circular. We gotta have staff here

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

I agree that there wasn't thought put into it by the developers. I'm sure they weren't thinking, "hey Billy, sure we can put this 1 Billion C feat into a GBA game?" However, I do feel it's quite clear that the background very specifically resembles a star cluster, as opposed to Sonic's average space setting. If you'd really like to go all in on the argument of, "that's not what the developer intended", then you can of course, but please be prepared to nerf every single franchise's stats and feats on this website immediately afterwards.
Also, I can easily flip the card, and use this argument for myself. The background vividly resembles a star cluster, so that part can't be mistaken. What if the part the developers didn't think about wasn't the setting, but how they'd all end up back on Earth afterwards? Afterall, there are many instances of Sonic characters falling straight to Earth while in space, something that should essentially be impossible.

Look, there are basically two actual arguments, one for both side. The background resembling the star cluster and Gemerl falling. I honestly still stand that it isn't legit but the support has a pretty good point here too. Staff input is the only way to settle this