Some DMC stuff

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I like how I leave DMC out of sight for 4 days and people are legit arguing for Low 4-C, FTL, and re-inserting debunked resistances. There were multiple 100+ comment threads about this.

Even High 6-A is unbelievably generous for Devil May Cry since it has nothing like that outside of a vague island sinking feat for a character stronger than the one who does the High 6-A feat.

No speed feat is above Sub-Relativistic which in that case is the calculated speed of some of Abigail's lightnings that he doesn't even fire at Dante, but we are generous so we say that the speed of Abigail's other energy / projectile attacks should be that fast.

 

[Dienomite22]

Ôåæ Devil May Cry, Enemy File — Frost: "Although impervious even to volcanic fire, the frosts are weak to higher realms of incendiary. Use the hellfire of Ifrit to counter them."

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Actually it says that frost are impervious to volcanic fire and only ifrit aka hellfire can hurt the frost

We're doing this dance again? Hellfire doesn't excuse wank. Hellfire is literally just said to be hotter than volcanic fire, nothing more. It's not this uber special heat that can counter Absolute Zero.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ar we really trying to use that to justify AZ resistance again?

 

[Golden_Void]

We did accept it for Dragon Ball. Hyssop is stated to have a body as cold as absolute zero on the DB Japan website, and it's on his profile.

Also regarding the volcano being able to counter it:

Devil May Cry, Enemy File — Frost: "Although impervious even to volcanic fire, the frosts are weak to higher realms of incendiary. Use the hellfire of Ifrit to counter them."

 

[Dienomite22]

Not really a dance, super natural hell fire being the only thing to damage a super natural cold temperture isn't really something I would find shocking

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

You literally ignored the second half of the line, "are weak to higher realms of incendiary". Meaning that things hotter than volcanoes can **** up the Frosts.

They are not Absolute Zero.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also in regards to Quicksilver, Dante's speed in that scene was calculated at like Supersonic. It's not very good to use to apply a calc-stacking to MHS+ to Sub-Relativistic calced feats.

 

[Dienomite22]

"Higher realms" can literally mean hellfire aswell tbh

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Hellfire is just a buzzword. All we know of Hellfire is that it is hotter than volcanoes. Know what that means? That we can safely assume that Hellfire is noticeably hotter than 1100 Celsius (The heat of lava), but nothing more.

This isn't even Amaterasu levels of heat, let alone something that can counter Absolute Zero.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's outlier, PIS and this stuff only in DMC, but every other verse is fine
The name of this ? Logic

The name is reasonable assumptions and unbiased analysis. And I would appreciate there were no cheeky comments like these anymore.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Uughh. I would have liked to addressed this issue myself, when I had more free time, and currently midterms are right around the corner. I'm not going to be able to meaningfully contribute to this here for a while...

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

hellfire and absolute zero i can sort of see thanks to the fact hellfire is only above volcanic lava which won't be enough to melt absolute zero afaik.

But what i want to know is why do we assume sid a very weak demon using the power of a demon rivaling mundus can use ALL of his powers? The one performed said feat was Sid empowered by abigail and remind me but didn't he absorb his powers but not said whether its all of it?? Mundus had a creation and destruction feat which we discussed above as said tiers. Idk why this was ignored really and it ain't teleporting cause again dante would be stuck there and clearly when mundus lost the entire fight it collapsed.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Mundus' best feat is an island sinking when he died. Everything else is vague as hell. Even the supposed stars in the dimension are wavy and moving.

It's an outlier in any case. Every single feat in Devil May Cry is Tier 9 to Tier 6 (only two Tier 6 tho), and now we will make all the strongest characters 4-A based on something we don't even know is a feat.

I direct you to this: Outlier

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

Can I see the feat?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

the supposed feat is the same thing that made Mundus universal, which is outlierish and barely even a feat.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I never saw the feat, I just saw Twitter statements, which I'm disregarding.

 

[Dienomite22]

@Hadou https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jvwzkwmFn0 around 2:10

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

10:37 is when dimension collapsed

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's like the old thread didn't happen...

So Mundus spreads his wings and arms, and suddenly both him and Dante are floating in an Outer Space-like environment. This is literally all information we get on it. There's no dialogue nor clarification, nor does the Official Strategy Guide provide insight into what happened.

We can infer to possible conclusions:

• Mundus created this dimension himself
• Mundus transported him and Dante to another dimension
• Both are 100% equally valid interpretations, as there is nothing that suggests the former more than the other.

Furthermore, even if it was confirmed in game that this is a dimension created by Mundus, there is absolutely nothing that indicates it warrants a Universe level rating.

Why? Look at the background and you'll see stars. That's it. Stars alone do not indicate that the dimension is universe sized. In order for that to be the case, we need to see Galaxies as well, and even then that typically only wields Multi-Galaxy level.

If this feat is to be accepted, it needs to be treated as we treat all other starry dimension feats: Multi-Solar System level.

And that's if it is accepted that this is a Creation Feat and not a Dimensional Transportation feat, and I personally feel that the later is far more likely.

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

except...transportation would leave dante stuck in said dimension with no real way back...and yet he ends back to where it was

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

It looks pretty 4-A to me. If I recall, Mundus embodied a world he created during his fight against Dante in his fight against Dante in the novel, where Dante basically danced around him in that fight.

I feel like there is no reason to not consider this a valid creation feat, especially if the place collapsed after his loss. Considering that Dante transformed for this fight and Mundus became unbound by the statue encasing in this fight, I'm not sure why this is an outlier.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I completely agree with Matt.

 

[Golden_Void]

>Both are 100% equally valid interpretations, as there is nothing that suggests the former more than the other.

>And that's if it is accepted that this is a Creation Feat and not a Dimensional Transportation feat, and I personally feel that the later is far more likely.

w0t

 

[WeeklyBattles]

100% agree with Matt

 

[ThePerpetual]

"If this feat is to be accepted, it needs to be treated as we treat all other starry dimension feats: Multi-Solar System level."

This is perfectly fine by me

Universe level DMC always felt weird to me, personally

I was actually planning on writing a blog/extended analysis of all of this stuff but again, busy, for now.

 

[Dienomite22]

We already have instances with Mundus teleporting which looks nothing like what happened in the dimension creating scene.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

My points have yet to be addressed. Both aren't equally as valid. Matt left out the crucial fact that the place ceased after he was defeated. After Mundus lost, the dimension was destroyed. And as TIS brought up, there are other factors indicating it isn't dimensional teleportation. Even if it isn't 3-A(which I'm not at all saying it is), I don't see why 4-A isn't valid, especially if both fighters transformed just before the fight began.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

"If this feat is to be accepted, it needs to be treated as we treat all other starry dimension feats: Multi-Solar System level."
This is perfectly fine by me

It's not perfectly accepted to: TheJ-ManRequiem, The Real Cal Howard, Dragonmasterxyz, The Everlasting, Ultima Reality, Js250476, Saikou The Lewd King, LordGriffin1000, Hellbeast1, MrKingOfNegativity, Knightofannihilation666, KarmodF, Weekly Battles, FateAlbane, Gargoyle One, ArbitraryNumbers, Antoniofier, Promestein, ShrekAlmighty, Huesito88, Blahblah9755, God-King Superman77, Super Saiyan God Julian, GimmyJibbsJr, HeroicDefender97, DarkDragonMedeus, Kaltias, Dark649, Shadowbokunohero, Therefir, JustSomeWeirdo.

And myself.

There was a giant thread about it. Everyone agreed that it was an outlier and DMC can't be above 6-A.

 

[ThePerpetual]

...uhhh

That... isn't what I meant by that?

I mean, as opposed to assuming Universe level.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

except...transportation would leave dante stuck in said dimension with no real way back...and yet he ends back to where it was

Dimensional Transportation due to Sparda's powers? There are many ways to answer this claim. Also if the dimension collapsed he wouldn't return either.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

...uhhh
That... isn't what I meant by that?

I mean, as opposed to assuming Universe level.

Multi-Solar System level was also rejected by all those people. I argue why 3-A / 4-A is an outlier. It is still quadrillions of times above any other feat in Devil May Cry.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I remember one of the points in the thread was an out-of-context manga scan used to imply that Mundus was incapable of destroying the planet based on poetic wording. It was shown in a later thread, where everyone then concluded that it was Sparda and not Mundus, and that the wording actually implied that Sparda could spear the planet without breaking it, which implied he could stick the spear all the way through skillfully without causing collateral damage, which was a compliment and not saying he couldn't planet-bust.

 

[Dienomite22]

@Matt thats explaination getting into headcanon territory

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

And again, it was argued as an outlier assuming that Mundus was the same as he always is. Just before this fight, he clearly transformed, as you see him leaving the statue that was encasing him.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And that changes bugger all, Sparda has no feats other than scaling and the people he scales to have no feats above High 6-A. He can't planet-bust because he hasn't shown the power it.

And sticking a spear (Temen-ni-gru) into a planet is not piercing the planet all the way. It's like a mountain level feat at best due to moving such a heavy thing. And that's with wanking.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Matt thats explaination getting into headcanon territory

Oh, and saying that Mundus created a pocket universe with thousands of stars that collapsed when he was defeated isn't?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

And again, it was argued as an outlier assuming that Mundus was the same as he always is. Just before this fight, he clearly transformed, as you see him leaving the statue that was encasing him.

Transformation means nothing. Doesn't excuse him becoming quadrillions of times stronger. It only made him somewhat stronger.

Even x10 is reaching without feats.

 

[Niarobi_(Formerly_Hadou)]

I wasn't saying he flat out could, I was saying that the out-of-context manga scan didn't imply that he was incapable of planet-busting. That was one of your points, and it was something that didn't even apply to Mundus.

 

[Dienomite22]

@Matt, yeah since the cutscene blatenly shows it being a creation feat