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Some DMC stuff

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@matt iirc dimensional thing was yamato's thing not the sparda sword was it not? If so then yamato wasn't in any cutscene as the order of the sword had it
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
@matt iirc dimensional thing was yamato's thing not the sparda sword was it not? If so then yamato wasn't in any cutscene as the order of the sword had it
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The point is that you can concoct far simpler explanations than something that wanks Mundus to 4-A.

Speaking of which.

TheHadouCyberspaceWitch said:
You're right. 10 times is reaching without feats. That's why Mundus conveniently has a 4-A feat, a few seconds after transforming.
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Which is a humongous, cosmic-level outlier for reasons which have been explained ad-nauseum, and that's assuming it is a 4-A feat.
 
Or, that's the most simplest thing and "wank" is used too freely here, and it clearly gets destroyed upon his defeat. Trying to come up with other theories such as it being an illusion which has no basis behind it, that's kind of blatant downplaying, to be honest.
 
@Matt,When Mundus uses teleportation he uses thunder or magic like glyphs,nothing like what was shown, and why would it be an illusion if Mundus himself gets hurt and is capable of getting trapped in his own "illusion" or how can he and Dante fly and fight in the marble room?
 
Unite My Rice said:
An ILLUSION?
Are you downplaying or are you being serious
Click to expand...
I am being dead serious. It's not far-fetched.

Virgo Shaka from Saint Seiya can create universe-sized illusory dimensions that actually don't exist. And when they are defeated they fade as if crumbling and people are back in the real room where they were before.

It even looks exactly like how it does with Mundus.

Between the assumption that Mundus has powerful illusory abilities and the assumption that he can exert TeraFoes of energy casually and create pockets of space-time, the former is far more reasonable, even if neither has more backing than the other.
 
UMR stop derailing the thread with personal attacks, please and thank you

The 3-A feats in Dragon Ball are a different matter than this
 
Oh, so I guess Goku VS Beerus is an outlier now, even though the Super Saiyan God transformation happened. Because assuming Super Saiyan God is 10 times more powerful without feats is reaching. Even though they shook the universe. Because I can come up with other theories as to why the waves got stronger as they got further away from them, which explains why Earth survived. 4-B SSG Goku and Beerus. 4-B to 3-A is a much bigger gap than High 6-A and 4-A. Just saying.
 
@UMR

You are using false equivalencies and out of context scans once more to try and go "Gotcha".

Going from 6-A stretching to 4-A is an outlier based on one feat. Plain and simple. If they had three feats I'd be more inclined to accept it.

Also, Goku vs Beerus is one of the most obvious, in-your-face Universal feats in fiction. Mundus' feat is one of the vaguest in fiction.
 
if its an illusion mundus can simply trap dante in it though but instead they locked fist to the death...
 
TISSG7Redgrave said:
if its an illusion mundus can simply trap dante in it though but instead they locked fist to the death...
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Because Mundus wanted to kill Dante in a direct fight. Is the concept of an illusory pocket dimension that just looks fancy really that alien?

It is also far more reasonable to assume as it requires far less guess-work and suspension of disbelief, compared to the claim of TeraFoe Space-time creating Mundus, which by the way breaks the plot hard. The entire thing about Devil May Cry 1 is that Mundus is preparing a portal to invade Earth. If his power and control over space and time was so good, he wouldn't need to do such a thing.

He could just blow up the Earth, or open a planet-sized portal around it, or pull the Earth into the Demon World, or a myridad of other things that would make more sense than a plot that obviously doesn't portray Mundus as being anything above Island level, which is his best feat in DMC 1.
 
> Goku gets 10^23(I think this was the number) times stronger with a transformation and a single feat

> Dante gets quadrillion(?) times stronger with a transformation in a single feat

> the only difference is that Mundus's feat is vague

> the only other questionable alternative to Mundus creating it is that it's an illusion, which is a baseless assumption

Sorry, but-
 
@Hadou

Do you read what I say? A single five-second transformation with literally no lore or explanation behind it won't allow you to go from 6-C to High 6-A to 4-A. It is laughable and wank. A transformation who is explained ad-nauseum in lore to elevate a mortal to the level the Gods, who are themselves explained to be universal repeatedly, and which then shows in your face universal feats is an entirely different matter.
 
It's not personal Prom.

Argument 1:

"The numerical gap in power jumps doesn't matter, unless you think 3-A DB is an outlier via this very reason."

Argument 2: DMC getting a 4-A/3-A feat is an outlier, "even 10x is reaching without feats"

Where's the false equivalence? It's virtually the exact same argument.

Didn't they state in the manga Mundus wanted to return the "World" back to darkness or something of that effect?
 
Assuming that Mundus created a pocket universe is a baseless assumption. No more valid than the assumption that it is a universe, or that the pocket dimension just looks fancy and doesn't really have stars.

Between the assumption that requires Mundus to have TeraFoe level powers and the one that doesn't, the one that doesn't is chosen.
 
@mat that's dante taking sparda's form because he had the sword to use as a catalyst and access for power otherwise dante would be rofl'ed stomped hell a beaten up mundus came back and mocked dante completely telling his ENTIRE attacks were weak only sealing worked. So it's not without lore it happened because he had something that allowed proper access to that form and its powers
 
@Matt, Mundus plan is to make both the human and demon worlds one again(since they were originally one universe) and take over the human world through that method. And actually demons in DMC do have a good amount of control over space time seeing as god tiers like Mundus and Argosax can warp entire islands time and space despite being in another dimension or sealed, plus even fodder have space and time manipulation so I wouldn't doubt God tiers having a good control over it but thats off topic.
 
@UMR

It is entirely personal. You out of nowhere showing up to support 4-A DMC when you never did before while also using personal attacks and out-of-contet scans to discredit me is incredibly suspect.

And once again you refuse to look at all the other arguments and just grab one tiny bit out of context in a way to go "Gotcha!".

Also, Argument 2 isn't bringing up numerical gap. It is bringing up the very concept of an Outlier. Which 4-A / 3-A Mundus is.

Mundus just wants to dominate the Earth with demons. You should do better than focus on poetical allegory.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
This should be on the Discussion Rules page tbh
Click to expand...
It is. 4-A / 3-A Mundus is against the rules. Not that it stops DMC fanboys tho. There's an entire youtube channel and his fanbase who basically have a cult centered around me and my DMC downgrade.
 
Between the assumption that requires Mundus to have TeraFoe level powers and the one that doesn't, the one that doesn't is chosen.

Occam's Razor applies here. Because it was destroyed when he left, there are two possibilities:

1. He created it, a pocket dimension with a background full of stars.

2. He created it, a pocket dimension that holds an illusory effect to make the place look like it has a background full of stars to make the battle look fancy.

We can see which has less assumptions.
 
Dienomite22 said:
@Matt, Mundus plan is to make both the human and demon worlds one again(since they were originally one universe) and take over the human world through that method. And actually demons in DMC do have a good amount of control over space time seeing as god tiers like Mundus and Argosax can warp entire islands time and space despite being in another dimension or sealed, plus even fodder have space and time manipulation so I wouldn't doubt God tiers having a good control over it but thats off topic.
Click to expand...
Wow, you couldn't be more wrong.

Mundus wanted to invade one planet, via portals, and take over it with demons. That's it.

Mundus can't do shit with Earth if he doesn't have portals to bring his demon armies into it. Portals which Sparda sealed with prep-time.

Nothing of DMC points to that characters being a scale of power beyond Planetary, let alone universal.
 
TheHadouCyberspaceWitch said:
Between the assumption that requires Mundus to have TeraFoe level powers and the one that doesn't, the one that doesn't is chosen.
Occam's Razor applies here. Because it was destroyed when he left, there are two possibilities:

1. He created it, a pocket dimension with a background full of stars.

2. He created it, a pocket dimension that holds an illusory effect to make the place look like it has a background full of stars to make the battle look fancy.

We can see which has less assumptions.
Click to expand...
You clearly don't know what Occam's Razor is.

We don't see it being destroyed, we see it disappearing and Dante leaving it automatically. Which fits it being an illusion.

1 in this case requires far greater suspension of disblief and assumptions. It requires the idea that Mundus can:

  • Create pockets of space-time spanning lightyears
  • Fill this pocket dimension with countless stars
    • Which itself brings the assumption that he knows how to create stars, via nuclear fusion or some other manner
  • And that he can do this in seconds with 0 efforts when none of his fits indicate that he can create or destroy more than an island.
Number 2 requires fancy illusion powers that require no energy of their own.
 
Also, Argument 2 isn't bringing up numerical gap. It is bringing up the very concept of an Outlier. Which 4-A / 3-A Mundus is.

It wouldn't be an outlier because both characters transformed just before the start of the fight. I'm unsure why this keeps getting brushed off. When someone brings this up, you bring up the gap in power the transformation gives being too great. That's really not a good argument, because it is literally exactly like the reasoning for why SSG Goku is 3-A.
 
No it would be. You have yet to prove that there's any lore backing behind a dumb 5 second transformation that is really just Mundus breaking out of a statue shell would require such a power up.

Do you even have evidence that Mundus is High 6-A in the statue? Mundus is High 6-A as his full self, which is what scales from Abigail, not a sealed statue form.
 
If you think it's personal I'd advise you to stop being so sensitive. If your intentions are honest then there should be a problem when asked to clarify. :^)

Instead of excluding 90% of the context in the manga and throwing ad-hominems I'd prefer to see the manga chapters if anyone has them.

I'm not supporting nor denying 4-A either, just checking arguments. I didn't even know why 4-A was being mentioned until I saw the OP edited his post.

It would also be best if you stopped insulting people with derogatory names and a condescending attitude.

DB has an outlierish power jump supported by lore, DMC has a outlierish feat with some unknown to me (or most from what I see) lore, and clarification from the author.
 
So far the arguments for 4-A Mundus have been:

  • 1. Headcanons that require far more assumptions than the alternative
  • 2. Debunked arguments regarding the setting cosmology
  • 3. Inability to recognize the definition of an outlier.
 
"If you think it's personal I'd advise you to stop being so sensitive. If your intentions are honest then there should be a problem when asked to clarify. :^)"

Can you stop being passive-agressive and poisoning the well instead? Thank you.

If the Verse isn't even known to you, why are you clearly arguing for one side?

The only people excluding 99% of the context is the Pro 4-A side.

Derogatory names and condescension is what I've been getting from the DMC Fandom for over a year now. There's a channel on youtube with literal dozens of 30 minute+ long videos filled to the brim with insults towards me.

DMC has a complete outlier that isn't supported by lore, other feats, explanations.

And Hideki Kamiya is a troll, even you know that. Word of God is always rejected here.
 
@Matt, scan saying Mundus wanting to invade and take over Earth through portals?

For one, Mundus doesn't even need portals for demons seeing as he can create demons and he obviously could of pulled and Abigail if all he wanted to do was use a portal.And the DMC2 guidebooks state that he wanted to take over the human universe (yes, it uses the word "universe")

Mundus once again already creates demons and could easily create an Abigail portal if needed.

And the DMC 3 manga implies what method Mundus would go about taking over the human realm which is to reunite the 2 realms
 
@Dienomite

You can read the entire thread I made. You even did.

He needs portals. It's the entire plot of DMC 1 and 3.

And no, Mundus never fused dimensions nor would do so.

@Sparda

That Feat is an outlier and based on rejected assumptions. Universal creation isn't used for speed.
 
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