Servant Immunity

[AnonymousBlank]

Magecraft is already possessing mystery by virtue of using prana. The only sufficiently advanced technology that we have seen is the Moon Cell which is a 4.5 billion year old alien computer so that point doesn't really hold up since 4.5 billion years old and alien in origin.

Jack creates human level bodies and even From Hell only puts him on par with large animals of prey if there are no people around, Medea got rekt by Rin (magical but still not a Servant), Casters of Red/Black didn't even encounter normal people/things and Hundred-Faces has no showings but has its stats split between 88 bodies. None of that changes the fact that with statistics like they would have in those cases, they are well within the realm of being killed by human technlogy, which shouldn't affect them. Thats my point.

 

[Paul_Frank]

I think you missed the point that was being pushed in this thread which was that if an item had mystery it could hurt a servant but things lacking mystery couldn't

An example earlier in the thread was that Hans would tank a tsar Bomba but not a tsar Bomba made in space with materials foreign to humans

 

[AnonymousBlank]

I know what the thread is about. I was responding to Sol who brought up the point that pretty much anything that can harm a Servant in the first place will have the necessary mystery anyway, making the immunity obsolete. I responded with saying that not all Servants are so far beyond the ability of humans to harm, hence the examples I listed who all have street to wall level keys.

The example of Hans and the Tsar Bomba lines up perfectly with what I was saying about it not being obsolete which makes me think there was some miscommunication between us somewhere.

 

[Solacis]

Example of Nasuverse cybernetics? The only thing I can think of is Hansa from FSF being a cyborg. Even then, it's hardly something that the general public knows about, and he was also enhanced by church magic.

The non-magical people in the Nasuverse decide what's mysterious, and they're no different from IRL peeps. Anything IRL people consider in the realm of sci-fi or fantasy should be considered mysterious in the context of the Nasuverse.

 

[JBennett]

The technology would still be weak in Mystery due to it being relatively new. Even if the Age of Technology goes on for hundreds of years new tech is being constantly made rather then preserve and maintained. I don't believe Hummanity needs to view it as mystrious inorder for it to be mysterious, at leasts not consciously, I think it more about how rare it is.

I remeber reading in KnK volume 6 saying if everyone knew about Magecraft then it wouldn't be all that powerful, I'll need to find it again to confirm.

Technology can have Mystery it's just need to be old enough, like the Moon Cell which is around 4.6 billion years old.

 

[AguilaR101]

High end technology that doesn't exist in the nasuverse should be considered outside of the servant's ability to resist, can't give resistance to stuff they have no evidence of resisting.

 

[Solacis]

Technology can have Mystery it's just need to be old enough, like the Moon Cell which is around 4.6 billion years old.

You've got it backwards. Age is only a single means to possess mystery. Age and mystery aren't directly proportionate to each other, based on what I've gathered from this discussion so far.

The less it's understood, the more mystery it possesses, which is why the strength (mystery) of magecraft is measured on a spell-by-spell basis. That's why even though modern magecraft as a whole is as old as Solomon, it doesn't mean that all magecraft is equally mysterious, which explains why magi don't share their spells with each other. Also, might I remind everyone that "spells" are referred to as "mysteries" by magi, and that they outright state that if enough magi used the same spell, it weakens considerably because more people understand it.

If the technology isn't understood, and uses methods and techniques beyond what modern humans consider plausible, then it should be mysterious enough to affect Servants just fine.

 

[Solacis]

Since we've seemingly reached a consensus finally, based on the lack of further debate, can we change this:

Immunity to Modern Weapons (Servants are Divine Mysteries that cannot be harmed by modern weapons such as guns, knives, or bombs unless they are infused with a supernatural aspect such as magical energy or possess a certain amount of age or mystery behind their creation)

to this:

Immunity to abilities that lack Mystery (Servants are beings of high mystery and can only be affected by abilities that can be considered "highly abnormal" by mundane humans) Or is there a better wording we can use?

 

[JBennett]

I personally like the original one better, the new version makes it more ambiguious on what can effect a servant or what can't since 'Normal' is subjective, manifesting fire is normal for some while it can be abnormal for others.

At least with the original it's limited to modern wepons/objects without supernatrual effects, where as this new one can make even somthing like a Black Hole gun be not effective if the verse in question considers it 'normal'.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

I like the original one better too as Bennet said above.

The new one would probably raise even more eyebrows and problems too and get people questioning on what even is considered normal, abnormal, or whatever.

 

[Solacis]

That's why I specified "by mundane humans". If it's better, we can use "by the Nasuverse's mundane humans".

But that brings up the issue of Fate/Requiem, where nearly everyone has a Servant. But we can handle that once Requiem gets the chance to explain its own lore.

 

[JBennett]

Here's the thing though, with the example with the Technology to advance for normal humans, in order for that technology to be possible it would first have to be understood just like how we understand how computures and Television works so to would the 'people' from other civilization understand how their technology works just like how the 'people' from Nier Automata can understand how their technology for for example.

It's also isn't entierly focus on how unnatrual it is since even mundane objects can have high amounts of mystery, an example of this is the katana Shiki uses in Kara no Kyokai is so powerful that just by unsheathing it can destroy a Bounded Field created by Touko who is powerful in her own right or even one that was desing to seperate her from space. The explantion why it's possible is due to it being 500 years old and the Mystery was removed not due to it being understood but it being broken during the battle with Araya.

 

[Solacis]

Ryougi's sword was 500 hundred years old and in peak condition. That doesn't make sense by normal standards. Thus, it has mystery even discounting its age.

But mystery is lost when the object in question is broken. Mystery is still an accumulated factor, which means that if its vessel is destroyed, it'll spill out and become useless. That's why old weapons that have rusted and chipped, despite being suitably old, don't possess mystery. Or you can bet that the Mage Association would have raided every museum on the planet.