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Servant Immunity

Orion'sBow said:
So Naruto could kill a Servant by punching them a lot.
I mean naruto verse have chaka so it not that impossible

And Guy can distorted space by just running very fast

I think they can by pass immunity
 
Could Hank Hill if he saw Gilgamesh using Charcoal instead of Propane? In one episode, he wears a devil outfit, so that's witchcraft.

Could a fully charcoallusted Hank Hill take on Gilgamesh?
 
Orion'sBow said:
Could Hank Hill if he saw Gilgamesh using Charcoal instead of Propane? In one episode, he wears a devil outfit, so that's witchcraft.
Could a fully charcoallusted Hank Hill take on Gilgamesh?
I mean by pass immunity is....sure?

Then again by pass immunity and actually harm people with immunity is different story.
 
Solacis said:
So what's the consensus so far?
Not clear yet, but if this one guy can do weird **** to space and time like tear it open or even destroy it with pure physical strength then i think this one guy can bypass immunity.

Another case is Someone like Ki user or lifeforce user.
 
You'd need magic/some ability which bypasses their resistance/immunity via hax to overcome them from what I've seen. People not being convinced doesn't mean anything when multiple scans, scenes, and WoG have been brought up which says that it's true.
Shapirowned
 
>magic/some ability which bypasses their resistance/immunity

What happened to something being spiritual or something having mystery?

>People not being convinced doesn't mean anything when multiple scans, scenes, and WoG have been brought up which says that it's true

When many of the scans/scenes/WoG weave in and out of each other and in some cases outright contradict each other, the ability hasn't been demonstrated (At least the intangibility aspect), and the volume of statements is frankly not as high as you're making it out to be, yes, I have a right to be skeptical.
 
Because, like I said before, the intangibility description is a crude attempt at trying to describe it because there's not any real definitive name to put on it, besides a form of limited invulnerability. It's not about attacks going through, is about attacks doing nothing to them.

Again, mention the actual contradictions you are bringing up, and not using intangibility as a measure of how it works, because part of what I saw up there was you bringing up things like rocks blown away by attacks impacting the servants like they were physical. It feels like you have an incorrect idea about it.
 
...... sigh. No one is saying they are intangible, intangibility is being used as a crude comparison as stated by SirLance.

Think of it like this, Servant immunity is like an indestructible semi-permeable wall that only allows magic or mystery through. Without either of the two, everything just bounces off the wall.

I dunno how to dumb it down anymore so if you fail to understand, I can't help you.
 
I think part of the problem is the implication of an ability like this having hard to define limits that can climb immensely into NLF territory.

But, thing is, comparisons like black holes or suns or supernovas literally prove nothing. Mystery builds naturally with time, even Shiki's sword with a few hundred years had mystery. Is just not the only way as Shiki herself was described as something on the level of a mystery despite being human, and Kishima Kouma reaching the level of an actual mystery not unlike a magical beast.
 
Sufficiently advanced technology can also take on mystery. So it kinda doubles back on itself if you bring up technology that is super broken
 
That's something I'd prefer Rep to answer, because I am not sure I can give a sufficient or satisfying explanation.

That said, the mere oddity of them all put them above anything that could be considered normal by Nasuverse standards. Not even talking about Ultron, I mean Cyborg can literally assimilate Alien technology he might have never seen before, and the Moon Cell/Velber aren't much more than hyper advanced technology (though it ***** with things like spiritrons, not to mention Altera being specialized designed to battle things around planet Earth on the Age of the Gods, but regardless).
 
Mystery depends on the time period though.

Archer doesn't have much mystery because he's from the future, so there's no mystery about him in the past (which is weird, shouldn't a guy from the future be super mysterious because no one knows about him?)

And mystery started dying out the more advanced technology became IIRC because people were understanding more about what they could do with tech so it was no longer mysterious.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Mystery depends on the time period though.
Archer doesn't have much mystery because he's from the future, so there's no mystery about him in the past (which is weird, shouldn't a guy from the future be super mysterious because no one knows about him?)
the deal with Archer is that rather then a lat of mystery it's more that he doesn't get any influence that servants are given from their legends, since he lacks a legend he dosn't get any boost like Saber or Berserker in their home Countrery.
 
@Cal

Post-Flashpoint Cyborg would easily bypass Servant Immunity on the basis that his tech is made by the New Gods, who are literal gods. He can also tap into metaphysical forces like the multiverse itself.

Ultron has tapped into magical forces before like the Odinforce and has frequently traded blows with gods, so I don't see why he wouldn't be able to harm a Servant.

In any case, all of these characters would be able to wipe the floor with the average Servant on the basis that the scale of their abilities would easily match a Divine Spirit in terms of power. Things like Star level power, terraforming planets, and metaphysical forces are definitely supernatural enough to harm a Servant.

That's why I keep saying that the whole "Servants can tank technological 4-B attacks" is utter bull, because it's made repeatedly clear that this sort of power is relegated to some of the most powerful forms of mystery in the series.
 
Perhaps a lower tiered technological character would make for interesting discussion.

Someone drops the Tsar Bomba directly on top of Hans Christian Anderson.
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Perhaps a lower tiered technological character would make for interesting discussion.
Someone drops the Tsar Bomba directly on top of Hans Christian Anderson.
Budget waver tanks it due to the bomb not being dropped by a servant and normally lacking the mystery or magic in order to affect the servant core
 
Wait, wait:

So basically, this "mystery" thing is more or less "the more ancient you are, the more you have it".

If that is the case, let's pick a character like, I don't know, Kars, and let's assume he's 7-A (which he was at a certain point, but he got downgraded):

Kars, while having a purely biological/scientific arsenal of abilities, he is 150,000 years old Pillarman, and inhuman evolved being who was even worshipped as a God by ancient humans, and he enhanced himself with a tool that he personally made 12.000 prior to 1939 (at which point in time, there very few human "civilizations"), and afterwise further powered up the Stone Mask with the Super Aja, a Stone which was around since late Republican Rome, and turned himself into the ultimate Being, which had the power of each and every living being to have ever existed on earth.

Would this give him enough "mystery" to affect a Servant?
 
A tsar bomba constructed on a space station using materials from another planet is dropped on Hans.
 
@Dargoo

The meteor would kill him easily because such an event is one of Quetzalcoatl's Noble Phantasms.

If no one on Earth can easily understand how the bomb works scientifically due to it being of alien origin, sure. The sun gods of the Nasuverse are all aliens who arrived on Earth as bacteria.

@DMB

Absolutely, yes.
 
Re-reading through this entire thread one more time, basically, mystery is just a hell of a lot simpler than a lot of us originally made it out to be. Taking away all the magic-system's technical mumbo jumbo, it all just amounts to whether or not the mechanics of a form of attack are understood by the modern era's humans?

Say, a punch is a punch. People know how punches work, and they know how much damage they tend to deal. They can be this strong or this weak, and even if most people don't know the exact numbers, they can easily believe it when they see it.

But if a punch suddenly causes explosions on impact, sets things on fire, affects a higher or lower spatial dimension, or if the damage dealt by the punch far surpasses what's considered "normal" by the modern era, then it has mystery because it is a mystery, of a sort. Older things have more mystery because the farther back in history we go, the less we actually know for sure. That even knowing what happened in myths and legends actually happened, it's unbelievable that they did because by modern points of view, the feats don't make sense and thus, are mysterious.

Am I getting this right?
 
So we have clearly defined limits for Servant Immunity. Is there really anything left to discuss?

I mean if being "obviously abnormal" is literally the only requirement to affect Servants, then practically every character above 9-A can bypass the defense. Even those that are in Tier 9 can, if they're at their tier due to physical feats. Hell, anything in the realms of science fiction and fantasy can bypass SI.

Also, doesn't this just make said immunity obsolete? Consider the fact that practically every Servant is at least 7-B, and thus, anything that can put up a fair fight against them is automatically abnormal enough by the standards of the Nasuverse's normal humans to affect them anyway.
 
Well, this turned out to be a rather massive revision. I only asked for a change in wording, and it somehow escalated to redefining one of the core mechanics of the verse.

Guess I'll just wait for more input from whoever still follows this thread.
 
I wouldn't say its completely obsolete. While most beings that could fight Servants are definitely abnormal and woud bypass it, Nasuverse does have cybernetics and the like that are 7-B+ (using pre revision Tiers) so there is a large enough purview where it is still relevant. Not to mention some Servants like Jack, Medea, Avicebron, William and Hundred-Faces who can otherwise be harmed by things withing human means/technology if not for the Servant Immunity.
 
Sufficiently advanced technology has mystery as does magecraft also I don't remember any of the listed servants being harmed by non servants
 
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