Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,143
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Ozpin literally says he gets weaker each time he is in a new body so that's actually true and Salem is a Glass cannon as well
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RWBY: AP buffs
- Thread starter Cire
- Start date
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Best i can give atm is the RWBY wiki having a reference for the statement, the video clip itself is not available online
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This is the only source of the director's cut that I could find. No video and basically a summary.
Spinoirr
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Chapter 7 section: “They needed Emerald to see Salem being the Queen of death and destruction as she was drawing the grimm goo out of Monstra”
The writers stating that Salem controls the Grimm pools. Along side the actual clips from the volume of her doing this should be proof.
The writers stating that Salem controls the Grimm pools. Along side the actual clips from the volume of her doing this should be proof.
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- Thread starter
- #126
Hot.
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So no actual statement of her launching the Grimm goo upwards at Atlas from what I can tell.
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“She is the bad guy so she should be allowed to do anything”
No? People scale to Salem. What she scales to matters more than “she is the final boss so she should be ok to do any feat she wants.” If she is equal to Ozma, then everyone is scaling from her.
Just because she’s the strongest doesn’t mean she should have no limitations per our site rules. If she’s casually High 6-C, then everyone else becomes 6-C, which is in direct contradiction of the Long Memory feat being 7-B and vaporizing someone who should be 6-C. Every other feat is DYNAMICALLY lower than Salem’s own, so either her feat is an outlier or the several other Tier 7 feats are ignorable.
Are we claiming that Ozpin, and therefore the Maidens, should not scale to current Salem then? Cause if that’s the case, you’ll see no problem from me.
All current Maiden scaling relies on them being exactly 1/5 as strong as Salem. If Ozma has been getting weaker through incarnations, then the Maidens would no longer be that strong. Which means they would go back down to using their own feats or the feats of others.
If that’s the solution to this problem you won’t hear complaints from me about it. My main issue is never Salem, it’s always the people scaling to her being so astronomically weaker than this one, casual feat of hers that has been my issue.
If we’re removing the “Ozpin is 1/5 as strong as Salem” scaling then you’ll hear no complaints from me.
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No? It is directly confirmed that she did so. The grimm goo is not sentient or alive, it does not move on its own
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Agreed. Salem and Ozma scale to each other but Ozpin (or in the case of the one who split his powers, the Wizard) had already reincarnated at least dozens of times, getting weaker each time. The Maidens shouldnt be 1/5th of Salem, they would be 1/5th of The Wizard
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She can command it to do something but that isn't the same as her actual attacks scaling to it.
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How does one command a river...? Its not alive, she was telekinetically moving it, Cire literally posted clips of her doing so
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- Thread starter
- #133
Clarifying here, her commanding a grimm pool similar to the river. But yes, it makes complete sense for her to move it. Again, the river has no muscles. It has no way of condensing itself and just springing up at LARGE ISLAND levels of power.
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Whether Salem scales to the river or not doesn’t much matter to me.
Right now, I think we need to establish a scaling chain for the Maidens and everyone else, since they’re not scaling to Salem’s Grimm Magic. What feats do the Maidens or those around them have.
Right now, I think we need to establish a scaling chain for the Maidens and everyone else, since they’re not scaling to Salem’s Grimm Magic. What feats do the Maidens or those around them have.
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NGL it can still be argued that the shields from Long Memory are 7-A as theyre generated using the same stored energy, just applied a different way
Spinoirr
He/Him- 16,143
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Prime ozma scaling to Salem but getting weaker with each reincarnation so they should probably not scale to the 1/5th prime ozma thing or be "possibly 6-C" via us not knowing how much weaker ozma has gotten when he split his power
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- Thread starter
- #138
The old man who gave the maidens their power is strongly implied to be Ozpin's reincarnation right after Salem killed him. In the episode, he's shown to be slumping around in a depressive state, and in the Fairy Tale, he is a recluse old man who doesn't want anything to do with the world anymore. Logically, Ozpin is depressed about what Salem has become, along with his four daughters dying. It explains why he got so attached to the maidens that came by his doorstep.
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And as we all know, nothing physics-defying has ever happened in fiction.
But I agree with King that getting the scaling chain sorted is important.
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Its definitely not his first reincarnation, the Wizard is depicted as just having a normal walking cane, not the staff that Ozma wielded nor the Long Memory, despite there being several known incarnations that wielded both. The Wizard would have to be somewhere in the middle, sometime after he stopped wielding the staff but before he made Long Memory
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- Thread starter
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How many rivers do you know in fiction that just magically burst into the air?
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- Thread starter
- #144
To be fair, it is a fairy tale. Thus, not all physical descriptions are going to be accurate, as no one knows what they actually looked like.
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There are no other rivers of Grimm in existence.
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- Thread starter
- #147
I don't know. I feel like this logic needs some backing up. From what we have seen so far, and what has been stated, Salem can directly control the grimm goo to do her bidding and has TK powers.
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The long memory can use different levels of energy, there is no reason that the shields should be comparable to an attack that completely drained it. If anything that just reinforces that the Long Memory is way stronger than the Maidens if portions of its total power are able to withstand their attacks. And as I argued earlier, Cinder didn’t kill Ozpin by breaking that shield, they continued to fight afterwards to our knowledge, so she doesn’t even scale to the shield.
“Possibly 6-C” means every single character also gets that. No, they’re just going to scale to their own feats.
That is a very strong assumption to make, since the timeline of events just has Ozpin going through ALL the stages of his life. That old man life could have been centuries after he lost his children when he finally gave up, it does not necessarily have to be right after he lost them. Most of this isn’t really backed up by anything, since information on how many past lives he’s even had isn’t known. I would absolutely not bet on scaling him to his prime self just because he got old and bitter at some point during his reincarnations.
The long memory being created right after his fight with Salem makes 0 sense if he also decided to not fight ever again in that incarnation. Either he gave up right after Salem killed him or he didn’t and kept trying to fight for a bit before this point.
There could be tens of lives that occurred between the old man and Ozma for any number of reasons. The fact that the Maidens are so radically weaker than Salem confirms that he had to have had a drop off in power at some point before giving them his powers.
That or the Maidens also get weaker over time, which isn’t confirmed.
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- Thread starter
- #149
Out of these, I think Old Man Ozma and Drunk Ozma have the best chances of being the wizard, since they are shown to be in depressive states in the montage.
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She didn’t do the feat via telekinesis, she did it through her general ability to control the Grimm that she got from her goth dip. That still scales to her AP, but through TK doesn’t make sense to me when she can just directly control the pool.
Or any of the many lives before or after them that are implied to exist. Old Man could be him, but it’s also possible that the Wizard was 50 lives before or after him. We do not have enough context to claim that Ozma gave up that early and met the Maidens that early. It’s far too ambiguous.
Also, if we are trying to say the Maidens should retain their 1/5 scaling, then the same scaling issues with High 6-C occur and the feat is just an outlier
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Honestly, that old man Ozma doesn’t look anything like the Wizard, so I heavily doubt the implication is that was the incarnation that gave the Maidens their power.
The incarnation would have to be after he got some kind of hope back in humanity, which would likely be after drunk Ozma
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No? It is confirmed that she broke through his shield and killed him in that clip.
Agreed, plus he isnt shown with the Long Memory and instead used his staff
Ozma
This page is for an overview on Ozma. Some of his incarnations have their own pages. Ozma, now known as Ozpin, was an ancient warrior introduced in "The Lost Fable". He rescued Salem from her imprisonment in a tower, and both eventually fell in love with each other. However, when Ozma fell ill...
rwby.fandom.com
He didnt build Long Memory until his 'Settler' incarnation.
Agreed
Theres also the fact that Oz also gave another small portion of his magic to Qrow and Raven
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What clip? Your reasoning for her killing him was that Pyrrha looked back, but that was several minutes of screen time later, and was because she heard Cinder flying up. That specific clash of power isn’t implied to be what killed him.
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Its not several minutes of screentime later. It is quite literally seconds in real-time.
15:41 Ozpin tells Pyrrha and Jaune to leave the building, and at 15:52 they are shown nearing the exit. Immediately after from a timeframe standpoint, at 16:19, Cinder and Ozpin have a short talk and standoff which lasts until 16:38.
Episode 12 picks up immediately after this at 1:22, with their fight lasting until 1:51. Then at 3:28 it shows Jaune and Pyrrha making it out of the building, and then the final explosion with Cinder flying up the tower at 3:44
Cinder and Ozpin's fight lasted ~30 seconds
Subtracting the 11 seconds it took for Jaune and Pyrrha to get to the exit (with a few seconds accounted for the fact that they didnt get to the door itself in the scene and thus pent a few more seconds running) It took Jaune and Pyrrha ~30 seconds to get outside while Ozpin and Cinder were fighting.
The timeframes are effectively identical. And you literally hear beat for beat the booms of Cinder and Ozpin clashing in the scene where Jaune and Pyrrha are outside.
15:41 Ozpin tells Pyrrha and Jaune to leave the building, and at 15:52 they are shown nearing the exit. Immediately after from a timeframe standpoint, at 16:19, Cinder and Ozpin have a short talk and standoff which lasts until 16:38.
Episode 12 picks up immediately after this at 1:22, with their fight lasting until 1:51. Then at 3:28 it shows Jaune and Pyrrha making it out of the building, and then the final explosion with Cinder flying up the tower at 3:44
Cinder and Ozpin's fight lasted ~30 seconds
Subtracting the 11 seconds it took for Jaune and Pyrrha to get to the exit (with a few seconds accounted for the fact that they didnt get to the door itself in the scene and thus pent a few more seconds running) It took Jaune and Pyrrha ~30 seconds to get outside while Ozpin and Cinder were fighting.
The timeframes are effectively identical. And you literally hear beat for beat the booms of Cinder and Ozpin clashing in the scene where Jaune and Pyrrha are outside.
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Also worse comes to worse the Maidens would just go back to scaling to Raven's Low 7-B storm feat with the multiple 7-C and High 7-C calcs being supporting evidence
Consistency is consistency i guess
Consistency is consistency i guess
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I kinda agree with Salem at Large Island/Island level AP, she did survive it after all (albeit it's mentioned she was still regenerating after the damage caused so maybe it shouldn't count) But regardless I am against it scaling to anyone else but the Long Memory.
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Basically its:
Salem and prime Ozma: 6-C/High 6-C
Long Memory: Varies, up to 7-A
Ozpin and the Maidens: Low 7-B
Everyone else: Downscales from Low 7-B
...So basically nothing changes other than Long Memory and Salem
Salem and prime Ozma: 6-C/High 6-C
Long Memory: Varies, up to 7-A
Ozpin and the Maidens: Low 7-B
Everyone else: Downscales from Low 7-B
...So basically nothing changes other than Long Memory and Salem
